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View Full Version : How wide to create depth/realism?


Ccondo
01/02/2007, 01:46 PM
So in planning my next tank, I have decided that depth of field or perceived depth is very important to create a realistic appearing window to the ocean. I want input regarding how wide to go... 36"? 40"? 48"? Also what other factors can be recommended to enhance the view? Blue background vs black? I assume external overflows help... What about glass vs acrylic? I have read that acrylic doesn't shrink the depth like glass does. Any aquascaping recommendations? What about purposely lighting the front 1/2 to 2/3 of the tank only so that the back fades away? Would this make the tank appear deeper?

Let me know what you think?
-CJ

tom obrecht
01/02/2007, 03:10 PM
Nobody has done as realistic job as Steve Weast IMO. Here's his site if you haven't already looked at it. For realism the wider the better.

http://www.oregonreef.com/

dascharisma
01/02/2007, 03:39 PM
I think that the worst thing a person can do if they are trying to create depth is to have an inwall tank. Nothing seems to clue the brain into how deep a tank is front to back like actually seeing a side panel.


Brad

reefkoi
01/02/2007, 05:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8879932#post8879932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dascharisma
I think that the worst thing a person can do if they are trying to create depth is to have an inwall tank. Nothing seems to clue the brain into how deep a tank is front to back like actually seeing a side panel.


Brad

I hear ya there, looks like a pisture most of the time, thats why I did inwall 1 side and 2 sides viewable in the other room, this way from one room you get the endview and truly see the depth

Ccondo
01/02/2007, 08:57 PM
Okay so the wider the better, but at the same rate 96" deep isn't practical for most of us... Max I'd ever go is 48" for cleaning etc... What about the other questions posed? What else can create depth?

nyvp
01/03/2007, 07:36 AM
yes 48" is real nice. wish I could have gone 48" instead of 36"

Phantom Phish
01/03/2007, 10:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8879932#post8879932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dascharisma
I think that the worst thing a person can do if they are trying to create depth is to have an inwall tank. Nothing seems to clue the brain into how deep a tank is front to back like actually seeing a side panel.


Brad

I would have to disagree somewhat. I understand what you're saying, but I think a well done inwall tank can acheive as much "depth perception" as any other. I would also reference Steve Weasts' tank as a good example, which is of course an inwall tank. For an inwall tank, I think a central sand channel and lighting that de-emphasizes the side walls and back wall helps a lot (as Steve has done).

tom obrecht
01/03/2007, 10:56 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8882463#post8882463 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ccondo
Okay so the wider the better, but at the same rate 96" deep isn't practical for most of us... Max I'd ever go is 48" for cleaning etc... What about the other questions posed? What else can create depth?

I'd agree that Steve's tank is not what most of would ever be able to do. My point was that you are looking for a realistic view for your tank and your looking for depth perception. I would recommend go as wide as you can.

tacocat
01/03/2007, 12:00 PM
Don't use Starphire. It tends to magnify everything. The increased clarity works against the illusion of depth.

mike660r
01/03/2007, 12:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8886208#post8886208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
Don't use Starphire. It tends to magnify everything. The increased clarity works against the illusion of depth.

Really? I have never heard that before. I guess I need to see a good starfire tank.

kwl1763
01/03/2007, 04:04 PM
36 is not that deep realistically. If you really want the depth go 48" Also blue back to me gives more depth. I don't like it as much as black and I have black but blue gives more depth. Also keep a little turbidity in your water so you can "see" the depth. Maybe a macro fuge and no carbon. Other thing is to not build a wall. Leave some channels so you see way back.

Ccondo
01/03/2007, 04:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by tacocat
Don't use Starphire. It tends to magnify everything. The increased clarity works against the illusion of depth.

Really? I thought acrylic could be used to create more depth because it was more clear and because it's refractive index is closer to that of water, therefore decreasing the "magnifying effect."

tacocat
01/03/2007, 05:12 PM
Starphire is glass. I noticed that things look closer in every Straphire tank I have seen. In fact, my tank doesn't look 4 ft deep. I'd say the back of the tank looks more vivid than a 2 ft deep tank made of regular glass.

Personally, I like the clarity and feel it is more than worth the loss of the illusion of depth that standard glass tanks convey. Since, illusion of depth is your goal, I'd stick to acrylic or standard glass.

kwl1763 has the right ideas.

triggerfish1976
01/04/2007, 01:21 PM
Oregonreef's tank is without a doubt the most well designed tank I have ever seen IMOP.
Here is my 96" x 48" x 30" tank that I setup as an inwall viewable from two sides. I was originally going to go 6' deep but my wife nixed that idea.

Looking down the long axis
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e151/triggerfish1976/DSC01002.jpg

Views from the front
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e151/triggerfish1976/DSC01001.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e151/triggerfish1976/DSC01000.jpg


I first tried to go with a low rock wall with outcrops of rock on the ends. I like the way this looked down the long axis of the tank but it doesn't do much for depth looking from the front side so I am in the process of creating an additional row of lower rocks that I will put in front of the back wall of rock with various gaps for the fish to swim through.

blide
01/04/2007, 01:55 PM
I don't think the type of glass has much to do with it. You have to think more along the lines of an artist and use the contents to create depth (ex: Paintings and Photos).

And no offense, but the tank above lacks depth perception from the front view due to the fact the rock creates a wall and brings the back of the tank closer to the front.

triggerfish1976
01/04/2007, 02:18 PM
I agree and that is why I am redoing the aquascaping.

aquavue
01/04/2007, 02:52 PM
New to posting here so...I hope this thing works?

I have a 300 Gallon 60" x 31" x 36" in wall. I love this tank but I have many things I would do different if I could. First I would move the overflow out of the tank so it would give me more depth. Second I would not have made that giant rock wall. It makes my 31" depth look like 12". I do agree that having one end showing helps show the depth. I have one end showing and it is my favorite place to stand and look.


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/144105DSC_0099.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/144105DSC_0098.jpg

Mr.Biggs
01/04/2007, 03:06 PM
would a mirror on the back help?

steveweast
01/04/2007, 03:57 PM
A couple things that I've found that helps with a greater perceived depth....


1) Keep the back panel clean. A coralline back destroys an infinite depth perception. The coralline draws the line where the tank ends.

2) Do not construct the tank with a colored rear panel....use a clear panel instead. This way, you can place a thin colored acrylic panel (any color that you want) against the rear outside panel. This will allow you to change the color in the future if you desire.

3) Don't use a blue background....it competes with coral color as well as defines the rear limit of the tank to the eye.

4) Black is really the best choice.....well....maybe second best...the best one that I've ever seen was a thin shadow box of about 3". It used a very dark blue (almost black) piece of acrylic that pressed against the rear of the tank. Above that piece was a single low wattage T5 bulb that cast down through the acrylic.....creating a graduated backlit rear panel. Closest thing to reality that I've ever seen. I plan to convert my rear panel to something like that one day soon.

5) Have your aquascaping formed so that it draws your eye back. That's why mine is formed like a triangle to give the impression of greater depth.

6) In the future, don't let the corals become overgrown. An over crowded tank destroys the depth perception.

familyreefer
01/04/2007, 08:44 PM
I will be setting up my 180 this month. I love the lit shadow box idea. Do you know how thick the piece of acrylic was that was used in the shadow box? Also is there a photo of this type set up any where. I can imagine how the light would be more intense at the top and fade toward the bottom. ( Just like the ocean!) I wonder how thick the sheet of acrylic would need to be

steveweast
01/04/2007, 09:23 PM
The one that I saw was 1/4 " or maybe 3/8". There is no link anywhere that I'm aware of.....but...it does show the versatility of allowing for future expansion and not locking yourself into a solid background color by having your tank made with a colored back.

Ccondo
01/05/2007, 04:45 AM
What do you suggest if external overflow is being used?

invincible569
01/05/2007, 06:01 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8896735#post8896735 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by steveweast
A couple things that I've found that helps with a greater perceived depth....


5) Have your aquascaping formed so that it draws your eye back. That's why mine is formed like a triangle to give the impression of greater depth.

6) In the future, don't let the corals become overgrown. An over crowded tank destroys the depth perception.


5. Exactly. Everyone tends to place their rocks a couple inches from the front and side glass just to get more real estate for corals. If you are trying to acheive perception of depth, move the aquascape as far back as you can giving the tank more sand real estate. Your main focus point either being the front or the front and one side to plan out an aquascape where that front area is more open.

6. Having large fish also destroys perception. Try to keep the fish size from average to small. Fish are another focus point that your eyes are targeted too.

Other tips:

7. Height of tank. The shallower the tank, the more depth perception it gives.

8. Overlapping of objects in other words, interposition of rockwork. The overlapped rock is considered farther away.

9. Angle of lighting. Everyone is used to lighting from above, but realigning your lighting to give different shadows acheives depth.

steveweast
01/05/2007, 09:37 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8901822#post8901822 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ccondo
What do you suggest if external overflow is being used?


That's easy.....don't use it. IMO, the external overflows work great for smaller tanks....but, become unneccessary (and really a hindrance) in larger tanks. Those rear corners are not exactly prime real estate......and to free up that space at the expense of having a clean, realistic, easy to access, functional background was not a choice that I opted for......besides, seeing the overflow grating is a deal killer for me since the infinite depth illusion is instantly lost.

blide
01/05/2007, 10:07 AM
9. Angle of lighting. Everyone is used to lighting from above, but realigning your lighting to give different shadows acheives depth.

Bingo! Ask any artist, painter, or etc. and they will tell you shadowing, color, and symmetry give depth perception.

We need some leonardo da vinci's to chime in on this thread.. :)

tacocat
01/05/2007, 10:42 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8895709#post8895709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blide
I don't think the type of glass has much to do with it.

If you say so. :) My tank is 4 ft deep and it doesn't look like it. I can count scales on a chromis that is three feet away. It's really weird effect, and you have to be looking at it for awhile to really notice.

invincible569
01/07/2007, 05:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8901924#post8901924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by invincible569
5. Exactly. Everyone tends to place their rocks a couple inches from the front and side glass just to get more real estate for corals. If you are trying to acheive perception of depth, move the aquascape as far back as you can giving the tank more sand real estate. Your main focus point either being the front or the front and one side to plan out an aquascape where that front area is more open.

6. Having large fish also destroys perception. Try to keep the fish size from average to small. Fish are another focus point that your eyes are targeted too.

Other tips:

7. Height of tank. The shallower the tank, the more depth perception it gives.

8. Overlapping of objects in other words, interposition of rockwork. The overlapped rock is considered farther away.

9. Angle of lighting. Everyone is used to lighting from above, but realigning your lighting to give different shadows acheives depth.


10. Brighter colored corals should be placed in the front while darker ones in the back. This could either be by intensity of its color leaving the dull ones in the back or just by the loudness of the color.

11. Larger size corals should also be placed in the front.

12. Aquascape your rocks to as low as you can possibly can. Dont add the fruitstand look. There is a TOTM named Tuan who acheived this by having all his rocks on the floor and corals also.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/totm/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/totm/images/IMG_2951sm.jpg