calcium reactor questions

[bulldragon]

ok im trying to figure out how it works whats the bonuses whants the cons are and weather or not to realy use one for a reef so basicly heres what i need to know

how does it work
what does it do ( i know it introduces calcium to the water but what else?) whats the pros and cons

[ckoral]

the solution of calcium hydroxide cannot be subjected to the air. We keep it in a nielson reactor" to prevent air from getting in. Attached to this is your RO water. Then you have the output dripped into your tank using a small ball valve. Many ways of doing it, many opinions about it.

The way I see it, the primary use for it is to maintain calcium levels. You still need to dose 2 part or have a calcium reactor if you are going to have stoney corals.

I feel it does a good job. My PH is right where it needs to be, the calcium levels take longer to fall. Mine has a small pump that I have on a timer mixing it for 1 min every 6 hours.

You can make one
http://www.mv.com/users/besposito/nilsen.html

you can buy an expensive one that looks nice (my option)
http://www.reefmania.net/products-kalkwasser.php


Another good learning source for you is the talking reef. This guy makes it clear for new reefers to understand.
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/tags/kalkwasser/


hope this helps, happy reefing!

[Fishbulb2]

Ok CA reactors add both calcium and alkalinity to the tank in equal amounts. this is important becuase they are also consumed by corals in the same amount. Other additives like CaCl and NaCO3 will add NaCl over time and the salinity will rise. With a calcium reactor we are able to add only Ca and CO3 (alk) without effecting salinity. It is also cheaper over time to buy CaCO3 and not the other compounds. Another plus to Ca reactors is that the media typically also contains trace elements like strontium, magnesium, and others.

The basic concept is to take calcium carbonate media and dissolve it in the tank. This media is often made up of old coral skeletons for example. So you can think of it as dissolving old coral to provide those elements back into your water for your new corals to grow. Kind of ironic. The problem is that CaCO3 will not dissolve at the pH of seawater. You need a mild acid. So what you do is to provide a reaction chamber that has your media and you pump carbon dioxide into it. The CO2 will make carbonic acid and the pH will drop. Now the CaCO3 will begin to dissolve and release Ca, CO3 (alk), and other trace elements into the tank.

Pros: doses Ca, Alk, and trace. Cheaper long term solution than adding each compound separetly. Has no effect on salinity. Not very dangerous (as opposed to Kalkwasser CaOH).

Cons: Large start up cost. Can be a pain to fine tune. Requires lots of equipment so you need to monitor it all. Can effect your tanks pH if you don't monitor flowrates and effluent pH.

Overall, I would highly recommend calcium reactors for larger tanks and totally not recommend them for smaller tanks.

FB

[Yinger]

ckoral, he's actually asking about a CA reactor, not a kalk reactor.

bulldragon as far as the pros of a CA reactor, it'll keep your CA and alk stable which is extremely important for SPS. the downside to it is that it will lower your pH in the tank due to co2.

[ckoral]

ops... hehe calcium kalkwasser... um... sorry about that

[Yinger]

you can actually get a full package for probably around 300-400 on the used selling forum.

[bulldragon]

ok my display is gona be 125 gal with a 100 gal fuge / sump so would you say big enough for a calcium reactor? and i plan on having lps and sps in the display and the fuge part of the fuge sump will also be visible but not the sump part *smiles* now how excatly does the calcium reactor do what it does? are there any diagrams around of how it works

im trying to figure this all out so i can build a custom unit for my system

thanks
Bull

[Yinger]

i think it would depend more upon how much SPS your planning to keep and your CA and alk consumption more so than the tank size.

[Fishbulb2]

I think with over 200 gallons, you are definitely a prime candidate for a calcium reactor. Even with a low consumption tank, you would need a lot of additives (by volume i mean) to significantly raise anything. I do assume yo uare keeping stony corals?

FB

[Henry Bowman]

ONE of the ingredients to SPS success is keeping alk / dkh consistent. Very Consistent ! Drastic alk swings can cause death to the more sensitive varities.

Ca reactors tend to greatly assist in this arena as opposed to dosing 2 part. On the other hand in the Reef Chemistry Forum the moderator RH Farley successfully uses a 2 part dosing system with a good dosing pump to keep his tank's chemistry very consistent.

[bulldragon]

well bassicly i usto have a tank small tank in ontario canada now i have moved to saskatewan and noone even knows about saltwater but thinks uts really cool so bassicly im gona build a SHOW piece tank and advertise it online and whatnot on the local ad sites and try and start a buisness setting up and maintaining saltwater tanks for buisnesses and such around the area and also homes if people are interested and maybe even start a lfs for sask that deals only with saltwater * smiles* so im planning on having the tank FULL of sps and lps maybe even some soft corals and such depending on how it looks and its requierments and such so i will be spending big money on this the tanks alone drilled and overflowed are gona cost me 1000 bucks

[Henry Bowman]

I'd go with a Deltec or Geo Reactor sized appropriately for the tank...

IMHO

[bulldragon]

ok well thanks for the answers

now next question

can anyone explain the way it does what it does ( by this i mean where the water flows step by step lik it comes in from where then goes where then does what? )

thanks Bull

[Fishbulb2]

well they all work on the same princibles. Sou need to pick a specific model if you want us to point out specific tubes and such. They will all have a pump that recirculates the water within the reactor. THen there will be three airline tubing size tubes. one will have CO2 pumped into the reactor through it. It might be connected to a bubble counter for the CO2. The next tube will feed water into the skimmer. THis is often accomplished by having a skimmer like venturi on the recirculating pump and submerging this intake. The last tube will be were the water exits the reactor and will probably have some sort of valve on it to regulate flow. Consider a pH controller for the CO2 set up. It will make life easier.
FB

[bulldragon]

ok maybe if i explain what im trying to do would help narrow the info im looking for

i have built skimmers so that stuff i know now i want to build calcium reactors so im trying to find out how they work how the water flows in them where the water goes what the flow rate is and such so i can try and make a calcium reactor

thanks
Bull

[Henry Bowman]

Fishbulb has given a good basic overview. Look at the last page(s) here for a diagram of a basic set up

http://www.geosreef.com/forms/ca_reactor_instructions.pdf for a basic diagram. It lacks to show you the exact build but will give you a good start for how they are set up.

and here for diy info http://ozreef.org/diy_plans/alkalinity_calcium/calcium_carbonate_reactor.html

To restate and add info... Many folks use a small pump like an aqualift pump to feed a steady flow of water to a chamber where water is recirculating within the reactor via a second stronger pump. The Geo takes water out of the lower area of the chamber and pushes the water back into the top of the reaction chamber. Between the recirc pump outlet and the inlet into the chamber there are fittings where Co2 is pushed into the reactor. This "inlet" line from the C02 tank is where a bubble counter is located for a visual check of co2 gas being pushed into the reaction chamber. In the same area or pipe recirculating water back into the pump water is pushed into and out of the "reactor Loop" The diagram on the oz reef site shows this.

HTH....

You can also google search Diy Calcium reactor for other answers.

[mano1192]

Sorry to flame, Im researching the Calc reacotrs also, but Im reading that for under 200g you shouldnt need it, I have a 95g corner and its going to be my SPS tank, is a CR overkill for that size tank?

[Fishbulb2]

Well by total volume the original poster is at 225 gallons. For your 95 gallon tank it's simple. Run it without a reactor for several months. See how you like it. See what your calcium and alk demand are like. If you can't keep up and maintain Ca and Alk without dosing too much 2 part (remember to monitor salinity) then of course you can add a calcium reactor.

FB

[Henry Bowman]

^^^^^ What FB said. and to restate.... ONE of the things that causes SPS to do well is very consistent alkalinity. A Ca reactor makes very simple work of this once it is dialed in. Even on a small tank, loaded with SPS and high demand, a reactor would make sense. There are companies that make small ones rated up to 200 gl (depends on load). On the other hand, with careful testing and a dosing system you could accomplish the same thing but in the long run IMHO a reactor is easier to maintain. I believe that I have also seen that they are not really cheaper, you just have an initial expense that it'd take a long time to equal dosing a 2 part BUT, a good doser and test kits would probably take that equation back in favor of the reactor......

Net result for me. With any amt of SPS over the long haul, the reactor is worth it.