OK this is getting aggrivating. How to control cyano!!

[cwegescheide]

Hey there everybody. Well gradually i think my cyano problem is getting worse little by little. Ive got a 90 standard dimension tank with a 6200 and 6100 on a controller (so Ive got pretty good flow) I heard that is a cause - low flow. My Ph ranges from 8.1 - 8.4 day to day. I haven't tried any chemicals and I don't want to. I manually remove what I can from my sand bed. I don't really have any on my rockwork thank goodness. I've got an sps tank with 2 medium sized tangs, 3 anthias, large wrasse and a small pygmy angel. I feed a decent amount of food every day 2-3 times a day. 1 feeding consists of a mixture of flake, cyclopeez, ora-glow pellets mixed up and then a couple good sized pinches of the coctail. I run a Ca reactor and I also top off with kalk in the evenings.

Any words of wisdom? This stuff is really starting to drive me nuts!!

TIA,

Chris

[CMcNeil]

are you useing RO/DI water?do you have any phosorb?i had a cyno problem as well in my 37g.i added another powerhead and did five 10gallon water changes in 2 weeks and started running phosorb.within 3 weeks all the cyno was more or less gone.i did have a little spot that hung around a week or so longer but it did all go away.i also did manually remove alot from the gravel,duirng the process.also id cut back on the feeding,i only feed my fish every other day now.

[cwegescheide]

Well I will say recently I have been trying to feed more. I do run phosban and its probably been a couple months since I replaced the media. When I moved my tank (about a month ago I'd say) I did a huge water change. Probably 50% I'd say. I'd love to erradicate this stuff. NASTY!!!!

Yeah I run RO/DI and my TDS is zero.

Chris

[bertoni]

I'd guess that growing and harvesting a macroalga might help a lot. Also, the amount of food might be too much for that size tank, depending on quantities. This article has a lot of ideas:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

[cwegescheide]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8974167#post8974167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
I'd guess that growing and harvesting a macroalga might help a lot. Also, the amount of food might be too much for that size tank, depending on quantities. This article has a lot of ideas:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

Since I have been feeding more and more I have noticed a positive response in the coloration of my corals and growth rate. I guess I really would hate to cut back on feeding if I can help it.

Yeah the funny thing is I don't have any other kind of nuesance (sp) algae in the tank anywhere. its clean. If I could get rid of this stuff It would be awesome. Very annoying.

I will give this article a read. Thanks Bertoni,
Chris

[cwegescheide]

OK this article is about Nitrate. I don't think I have a nitrate issue. I'm going to do a series of tests on the tank to verify but I didn't think cyano was a "nitrate" algae. From what I've heard/read its a low flow issue algae.

The one thing I'm leaning towards as an issue is this:

1) I've got a 90 that has a decent amount of rock and little "usable" substrate for sand dwelling corals etc.

2) The small rocks (frag rocks etc) that I do have on the substrate are causing small areas of low flow where this crap can proliferate. Some rocks are golf ball sized, a few a little bigger and a few smaller.

I'm thinking this might be an issue? Agree or disagree?

Thanks for your input
Chris

[bertoni]

The ideas in the nitrate article are appropriate for algae problems as well. The goal is to try to starve the alga into submission. More flow might help, as well, though.

[woz9683]

Second that, even though it's not technically algae, cyanobacteria does get nutrients from phosphates, nitrates, waste products. They are also photosynthetic so the amount of time your lights are on each day could be accelerating their growth. Or the age of your lights (and therefore the spectrum of light they are putting out) could also be causing an increase.

If it were me (and it has been me) I would work on what bertoni suggested before tinkering with the lights, unless the bulbs are just older than they should be. Macroalgae will use up some of the excess nutrients. I really think you should look at your food too. I don't know much about any specific brands of fish food, but I know that pellets and flakes in general are definitely at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to quality. They generally create a lot more waste than better quality foods. And by "a pinch of the coctail", do you mean shrimp that's been prepped and packaged for people, because I've heard negatives on that too. Can't remember what at the moment though. So, I think you could still get away with the heavy feedings if the quality of your food was better.

Finally, water flow can definitely keep the cyano from being able to attach to substrate or rock, but having high water flow everywhere may treat the symptoms but won't cure disease. If you had low nutrients and proper light, etc. the cyano would have nothing to feed on even if it found a low flow area to settle.

[BobTheBuilder]

I have a 29 gallon tank 0ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, 0 phospates. I am struggling with it also for about 3 months. I have been able to keep it under control. I tried everything but I just cant shake it. I decided to go the erythromycin route. I figure prevention is alot easier that eradication. Good luck with your tank

[cwegescheide]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8975464#post8975464 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BobTheBuilder
I have a 29 gallon tank 0ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, 0 phospates. I am struggling with it also for about 3 months. I have been able to keep it under control. I tried everything but I just cant shake it. I decided to go the erythromycin route.

Erythromycin???? How's this working for you? Do you have an SPS tank? Got any pictures of your setup? How long have you been doing it? How much do you use and how often?

Thanks,
Chris

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, antibiotics for cyanobacteria ought to be a last resort,like right before you give up and break down the tank. Here's a detailed thread on it:


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58041

In general, one big difference in treating cyano compared to algae is that algae do not use organcis as food while cyano can. So reducing organics can reduce cyano problems. More skimming is a good way that I have used, but others may also help, like lots of activated carbon.

[Sk8r]

Also make sure a stray sunbeam isn't getting to the tank at a certain hour due to seasonal precession.

[BobTheBuilder]

It has been over 12 hours since using erythromycin. I used the Maracyn brand. I have a 28 gallon tank. I used 400mg or two packets. The tablets you can get are 800 mg so be careful. Maracyn recommends 200mg per 10 gallon so I put in a bit less than recommended doage. I turned off the hob protein skimmer/refugium and hob filter and left the powerheads running. After 1 hour I started the hob protein skimmer/refugium but turned off the air because it went crazy. All coral, fish, snails, shrimp and hermits are doing fine. I measured my water parameters. Ammonia I am getting a trace of it between 0 and .25. Nitrites 0, Nirates 0, phosphate 0, ph 8.2. I decided not to put in any Amquel for now but I will monitor. I will put some ammonia netralizer if it gets above .25. After 6 hours you can see it starting to work. The cyno will get a dark brown color. The tank is looking better this morning. I siphoned a bit of the crusty cyno on the sand. I am preparing a batch of salt water for a 10 percent water change. I feel I am using this as a last resort. I an not going to replace my protein skimmer. I feel If I can get rid of it then I can prevent it from coming again. I know the event that triggered the outbreak. I will let you know how it goes good or bad. Later.

[reefnetworth]

what critters do you have in their? red legs will eat it if there is no left-over food for them. i have a psuedochromis that used to eat it in my 5G. and he was fed cyclop-eeze lightly every other day. i increased flow to 51 GPH HOB filter with chaeto and a DIY surface skimmer, it went away in about a week.

John M :cool:

[BobTheBuilder]

Sk8r,
That is a good suggestion that I have not read before. I was actually thinking of getting window film. I am getting the stray sunbeam because the leaves are not on the trees. I have the windows shaded for now and has helped. It still did not cure it though. I just am frustrated because most say it is a nutrient problem and I have 0 levels across the board.

[cwegescheide]

OK UPDATE:

Well I have tested for the presence of nitrates... YEP I GOT EM! Somewhere close to 20ppm it looks like. I am preparing to do a 15 gallon water change this evening. I am going to try and sift as much of this crap out as I can while in the process as well. I don't want to add any chemicals to the tank if not absolutely neccessary. I'm hoping when I come home this friday I will see an improvement. I am going to ask Cindy not to feed any extra food this week either. Only what is fed from the auto feeder thats it.

Lately I have been trying to feed more and more to try and further enhance the growth and coloration of my corals. I guess looking for the "sweet spot" if you will. Well I guess I overdid it a little bit. This week when I got home I noticed a few things that made me think we were overdoing it. My skimmer cup was filled with WAY more skimmate than normal + the cyano worse than what I normally have.

Well I will let you all know how it goes..


Thanks,
Chris

[bertoni]

Some people have crashed tanks with the antibiotics approach. If you go that routine, I'd suggest cleaning all the cyanobacteria possible out of the tank before dosing.

[cwegescheide]

Well I really don't think its bad enough to warrant dosing antibiotics so I'm hoping a nice water change and cutting back on feeding a little bit will remedy the situation :) Man this is some nasty stuff!!

[Serioussnaps]

its so simple........limit nutrients through less feeding and WC's, lots of flow, physical disturbance of patches and employ a GFO.......dont make it harder than it really is....oh and you need patience

[cwegescheide]

I guess I didn't realize I had any nitrates. I haven't had any problem with them until recently. I can't remember the last time I have even tested for them actually. Yeah I've had little patches of the crap here and there but nothing like what I saw when i came home Friday.

We will see what it looks like when I get home this coming Friday.

Chris

[BobTheBuilder]

Update I dosed another 400mg or erithromycin yesterday in my 28 gallon tank. This is the second dosage. My water parameters yesterday were Ammonia a little off zero , nitrite and nitrates 0.. This morning I checked all my water parameters Ammonia a little off zero , nitrite and nitrates 0, PH 7.9, Alkality 8 dKH, Calcium 360. The water clarity has definity suffered with having protein skimmer and carbon filter off. My levels are still good. My ph dropped though since I started this. Normally my ph is 8.2 or highter in the morning. I guess I will attribute it to higher Carbon dioxide levels due to the protein skimmer air off. I put my air tube on my powerhead and put some bubbling on. I plan to do a 10 percent water change today. All inhabitants are doing ok so far.

[cwegescheide]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8977607#post8977607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
IMO, antibiotics for cyanobacteria ought to be a last resort,like right before you give up and break down the tank. Here's a detailed thread on it:


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58041

In general, one big difference in treating cyano compared to algae is that algae do not use organcis as food while cyano can. So reducing organics can reduce cyano problems. More skimming is a good way that I have used, but others may also help, like lots of activated carbon.

Hey Randy have you heard of many people suffering RTN episodes by jacking up the amount of carbon they use? A while back I added about 2 - 3 times the amount I normally use and noticed 3 or 4 corals RTNing on me a few days later. I thought it had something to do with this. So if I added more carbon in the bag that is sitting in my filter sock I shouldn't add a LOT more than what I am currently using?

Thanks,
Chris

[RyanM]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I read about red slime time and time again and all that is ever said is that there are better ways to get rid of cyno than adding chemicals to kill it. We add chemicals to our tanks every single day. True they are chemicals naturally found in SW to a point, the fact still remains that chemical addatives are the norm not the exception in reef keeping. And every chemical we do add has an impact on the tank and if missused can crash it.

I have used red slime remover twice in my life and have had zero issues with it. Both times ive used it on a tank it was in the early stages of the tanks life but far enough along to have coral,inverts and fish in them. beside the massive gas reaction that takes place ive not had a problem. Maybe im just lucky but my red slime was gone. To date have never had it return in any viewable amount. There seems to be alot of people that use it and as stated before, nobody that has used it wants to admitt it because of the full on discust of its use implied or stated outright.

Dont get me wrong, im not condoning its use, far from it. I have no idea of exacly what impact it has on the rest of the tank. For that reason alone I dont like to use it . Id really like to know a completely explained reason for its bad reputation.
Other than its a chemical and you shouldnt put chemicals in the tank. Like I said above, we dose chemicals everyday. What is so bad with this chemical that has everyone up in arms.

Because of the negative responses about its use even I would think twice even three times about using it on a "tank of the month" reef, Not because I think its bad but I agree there are other ways to eliminate it.

Is there a thread that has documented scientific data collected on the pros and con, cause and affect of its use? Id really like to read it.

Thanks

[cwegescheide]

I think the answer to that Ryan is its a risk that you shouldn't have to take unless its a last resort anyways. I wouldn't want to do it just because I have about 40 or so SPS in my tank and a lot of time caring for that damn thing to screw it up by introducing a medication to the biological filtration and potentially nuking my tank and killing my fish.

Sure we add chemicals to our tanks all the time in terms of Ca, Mg and kalk and these things but adding a antibiotic is something totally different. It has properties that could potentially wreak havoc on filtration etc. Ca, Mg and Carbonate dont have these same properties. These chemicals shouldn't kill bacteria (maybe unless a HUGE overdose accident of some kind). Thats the difference. I for one don't want to take the risk.

I discovered a big issue in my cyano outbreak. Recently I've been feeding a lot more than normal and had a rise in nitrates. This is the issue that needs addressed. I have plenty of flow and brand new halide bulbs (3 weeks old) so I know this isn't it. I don't normally test for nitrates because up till now i haven't had any issues for a LONG time so I didn't bother. Then I thought it was plausible and on the advice from a few on here I tested with Sailferts and sure enough I do. Then I read a few articles from Randy while I was brewing a 15% water change. I vaccumed as much as I could out with the syphon and did the change last night, replaced the filter sock, cut down on feedings this week, made sure my ER was skimming at capacity and hoping to see an improvement at the end of the week.

Chris

[BobTheBuilder]

Please help. I have been dosing erithromycin for two days in the morning when I wake up the sand was clear. By 12:00 there is a covering of I believe to be cyno over the sand. THe cyno used to be reddish maroon colored before now it is brown. It still looks the cyno but it is just brown. I am think of stopping the treatment. I have a 28 gallon tank FOWLR soft coral fish. I currently have 2 AquaClear 20 powerheads (126gph each) and 1 maxi jet 1200 (295 gph) that is driving my HOB protein skimmer/refugium. Do I count the flow from the HOB skimmer refugium. I count it as half for 150gph. That would be 14 times for water movement.

[cwegescheide]

Hmmm I dont know what to say bob. I'd do some large water changes of atleast 20% with RO/DI water with 0 TDS. Replace your GFO and make sure you have plenty of circulation which it sounds like you do.

Hopefully the carbon will help remove any EM still in the water column. I'd do several water changes, 1 every day or two and see what happens.

Good luck to you buddy,

Chris

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have been dosing erithromycin for two days in the morning when I wake up the sand was clear. By 12:00 there is a covering of I believe to be cyno over the sand.

The problem with antibiotic treatments is that it may kill cyano and other bacteria, but it does not remove the nutrients, so they are still available for another crop of algae or bacteria to take over.