Still new..and need alot of help

[nise86]

Hi everyone. I've been doing some research about saltwater fish the past couple of days so I can start my first reef tank. Now I had threads up and was told not to run a mechanical filter, just Live Rock as my filter and the sand. ( then of course power heads and all that ).

So that helps me not have to worry about buying a filter. I thought I should get one to help me out a little but people are telling me no.

Now, I'm trying to get a list going so I know the expense I will be looking at. I have a 37g cube or high whatever you want to call it, that is bare empty. Now I want the tank to be fish and coral in it. And YES I don't know what kind of coral yet. If you guys can help me with the coral that would be great. I want something that looks really pretty and actually like the ocean, ALOT OF COLORS!!:D

Also with the names of the coral, what type of lightening will be needed? I might be having a stand built for me ( by my grandpop )
So he can attach the light in there or just have on sitting on top.

Fish I can do, just the only question I have is, how many fish may I be able to get? and what aren't some good fish to put together?

For my Live Rock I'm getting mostly base rock and a little Live Rock. Because eventually it will turn into live rock. ( and also alot of people recommended me to do that on this site ).

I still need to purchase a RO/DI unit. So I can have proper water.

One more question, lol you guys probably hate me sorry! but how do people determine how much salt with what amount of water to mix it with?

Thank you guys so much for reading this and if you answer thank you, I see everyone's tanks on here and I want one like that so bad!!. So if you can help please do!!

-Nise:D

[SpektralerSpeer]

Hi nise86,

it's good to see you're so enthusiastic, I'm just a little concerned that you may be rushing into things a little here... I would first of all highly recommend reading a good book such as The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner. I know it seems preferable to spend that money on equipment or livestock instead but it really is worth it.
If not, then here is the basic equipment you'll need (IMO):
tank (of course);
protein skimmer (this is highly recommend for beginners);
RO/DI (you know about this already);
heater;
lighting (what type of corals depends on the lighting);
flow (powerheads);
Refractometer (this indicates the salinity of the water).

Once everything is set up, with the water at the correct salinity and all of the equipment running, you must then cycle your tank before adding any livestock.

That is all very basic of course, as I say I highly recommend reading (at least one) good book. I'll be around if you have any questions (it will be easier to discuss one aspect at a time).

Paul

[cdangel0]

Let's start with the easy one first:

Salt
Follow the directions on the bucket. I use a little more then 1/2 cup per gallon of water to keep my slainity around 1.024.
Remember to mix your salt and water in a seperate container until completely dissolved before adding to your tank.

Rock
Good choice to use base rock and a little live rock.

Filtration
I am not a real fan of not using a mechanical filter of some sort - requires too much live rock to make that your only filter, I think the rule of thumb is 1.5 - 2 lbs per gallon for effective filtration.
You can't count your base rock weight for this.
37 gal = approx. 74 lbs of live rock
@ avg. $6/lb. that's $444 worth of live rock. A nice wet/dry or sump is considerably less.

Lighting
This is the tough one - most soft corals will do fine under Power Compact (PC) lighting, but you will eventually want to upgrade as you start keeping more difficult corals so I would recomend going with a minimum T-5 light. Metal halides are expensive, but from what I understand (I don't have one) worth every penny.

Corals
I would reccomend starting with a few "easy" ones:
Green Star Polyps
Xenia
Colt
Mushrooms
Leathers

Misc.
You wil also need a Protein Skimmer & a heater


I hope I gave you enough to think about. Important thing in this hobby is to take your time, don't rush anything, and always think ahead.

I know I haven't touched on everything, I'm sure someone will come along after me and give you further help.

[MCary]

Although there is some debate over whether a skimmer is a mechanical or chemical filter, it does function to remove the same things as a mechanical filter without the media being in contact with the water. What I'm saying, get a good skimmer and you won't need a mechanical filter.

Mike

[jmait769]

Nise - Well that is a lot of questions and hard to answer because there is so much equipment and opinions out there. You may be limited by your budget also.

I know you said you have done some research and that is great. If you haven’t read Waterkeepers <a href=http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239848” target="_blank">So you got a new fish tank Newbie</a> thread, I highly recommend you do that. It is long and has some splits but it is well worth the few days it takes to read it and will answer most of your questions. I’m so glad that I followed his advice because not only did my tank come out great I really learned a lot of things I hadn’t even thought about. It will help you decide on what you want and need.

Number one thing I learned was to have patients and go slow so you create the perfect environment for your animals.

HTH

Jay

[nise86]

SpektralerSpeer: Thank you so much for your help and saying I can ask you questions. I will be going out tonight to purchase that book at the Barnes and Noble by me. I did get a tank already its a 37g cube. So thats the only thing I have covered right now lol. But for the protein skimmer what kind do you recommend? and for heater what size will be good?

cdangel0: In your opinion you think I should get a filter? If so what kind? Cause I would really like things to be hidden as much as possible.

MCary: as well what kind of skimmer do you think I should get?

Jmait769: Thanks alot for that, I'm going to go read that tonight.


Once again everyone THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE HELP!!!

-Nise

[teetimefun]

A mechanical filter makes everything a lot easier and is relatively inexpensive. Lighting is a personal preference and has many differing opinions. PC are fine for most soft corals but if you ever want to upgrade to SPS or other light demanding inverts later on invest in a T5 system now so you won't have to buy a PC and later on a T5. Metal halides are nice but T5 are sufficient for most and is more efficient and has less heat issues. A protein skimmer saves a lot of trouble and headaches in a reef tank. On this buy the best you can afford. No sea clones no Red Sea prizms but a good hang on the back one like an Aqua C. I bought a Prizm at first it was more trouble than it was worth and impossible to resell and ended up buying a Aqua C. If you have a reputable LFS than buy more live rock IMO because yes base rock will turn into live rock but not with all the bonus life. My live rock came with feather dusters, sponges, stomatella snails, a pistol shrimp, coraline algae and a lot of other life. I mix a little over 1/2 cup per gallon of water and let it aerate overnight with a powerhead. I mix heavy on the salt because it's much easier to dilute with water than adding small amounts of salt. I am relatively new to this too but my tank is alive well with tons of color and all are easy to care for. Good luck and ask lots of questions it's how we all learn not just from our own mistakes but from those of others as well.

[Myka]

I also recommend the AquaC Remora for a protein skimmer. I have one and it's great...it's the most recommended HOB (hang on back) skimmer on these forums. There's a new cheaper one that's starting to create a stir as well, but I can't remember the name of it.

As far as livestock goes...you need to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle, usually just referred to as "the cycle" or "cycling your tank". This will take at least 4-6 weeks. You cannot add livestock before your cycle is finished because it will die.

Once your tank has cycled you will need a clean-up crew. I don't recommend hermits because they usually kill snails, and I find snails to do a better job. I like Cerith and Trochus snails. Start off with maybe 5 of each, and see how it goes. Most people buy too big of a clean-up crew and they crew dies off from starvation.

Find some fish that you would like, and name them on here and we can tell you if they will work for you or not. Do not even think about getting any tangs because your tank is too small. If you like clownfish they can only be kept singly or as a pair of the same species...you can't mix species. If you like damsels...forget it they are territorial bastards and will cause a ruckus IMO!!!

No one has mentioned test kits yet. You will need at the bare minimum pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate test kits. These test kits help you to monitor your cycle as well as your water conditions (parameters). When you start to buy corals you will also need Alkalinity and Calcium test kits. The most recommended test kits are Salifert. I personally don't recommend you buy anything else...it's a waste of money.

I have found the cheapest lighting to be metal halides, and the most expensive to be T5. You can find a 250W pendant type (hangs instead of being mounted inside a canopy) for about $150 used. Check the sale forums on here. Look for a used AquaC Remora too...I bought mine on here for $100.

You don't need to buy a refractometer to check salinity (amount of salt in the water). You can buy a float arm hydrometer, but you HAVE TO calibrate it because they aren't accurate. Once you have one...make a post on here, and someone can give you a link to learn how to calibrate it.

My number one piece of advice: DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT WORK AT THE LFS!!! At least 95% of them have no idea what they're talking about. These forums are a MUCH better place to get advice from.

[nise86]

Wow guys thanks alot! I am so happy you guys are giving up some of your time to help me with my tank. I will search to see if anyone has that protein skimmer for sale on here Myka. You gave me alot of help from what you wrote to me, THANK YOU

teetimefun, thank you so much too. If you think a filter will be a good idea, what kind do you recommend? And what kind of coral do you have since you said you have tons of colors and thats what I would like.

Also Myka for the cycling part, do you mean 4-6 weeks with the Live Rock in the tank cycling? I sound so dumb sorry!

Thanks again everyone!

-Nise

[Myka]

Yes, 4-6 weeks with the LR and your sand in the tank cycling. The Ammonia will go up, and then the Nitrite will go up as the Ammonia comes down. Ammonia will go to 0 first, then Nitrite. Once Nitrite is at 0 your cycle is finished. Nitrite turns to Nitrate, and your LR helps to rid of that, or you get rid of it by either water changes or growing macro algae (chaeto) in a refugium.

I actually use a power filter too. I prefer the AquaClear powerfilters. Powerheads are something you need to look into as well. I think you are planning a FOWLR (fish only with live rock) tank? If so, you'll need a combined flow rate (combine powerfilters, skimmer, powerheads) of 10-15x turnover (that's 10-15x the size of your tank in gallons). If you're wanting to do reef you'll need 15-25x turnover. Make sure whatever you buy is rated for a bigger tank than what you have. Like the Remora, it's rated for tanks up to 75 gallons. I have mine on a 33g, and I think it's perfect...would be perfect for you too.

The other skimmer I was thinking of is the Coralife Super-Skimmer. It's seems to be the new rave...I don't know anything about it. I doubt you could find it used though.

[SpektralerSpeer]

I also recommend an AquaC Remora, plus their president, Jason Kim is helpful, friendly and really knows his stuff.

As for lights, metal halides are my first choice (they are in fact more efficient than T5, although they get hot) as you seem to be keen on corals. I would recommend 1 x 150 W. otherwise T5 are almost as good (I use a combination of the two).

For a heater, I would say 150 W (I'm not sure on brands of heaters in the US).

I am a big fan of Tunze Turbelle stream powerheads, they have just released their new nanostreams, might be just right for you.

When you're ready to add some livestock (some time yet though!), I agree with Myka that you should just look around to see what you like, then post your list here so it can be peer-reviewed javascript:smilie(';)').

Have fun!

Paul

[teetimefun]

I have a penguin w/bio wheel. There are good and bad ones but inespensive does not mean cheap. With the penguin it's relatively inexpensive easy to maintain and all you will see is the intake tube in the tank which will be covered in coraline algae anyways. It's quiet does it's job and all you're looking for here is a chance to run carbon in the filter cartridges. Start it up with the bio wheel and after your tank has gone a few months remove the bio wheel. It comes with two filter slots I replace one every two weeks. I later took one of the filter cartridges out and replaced it with a polyfilter.

[teetimefun]

I have green star polyps, white star polyps, purple star polyps (place rubble around the polyps), clam, red mushrooms, orange mushrooms, blue mushrooms, blue-green-orange mushroom (tri colored ricordia), green frilly mushroom, green sinularia, heliofungia, closed brain, green and pink frogspawn, button polyps, eagle eye zoas, various zoas of all colors. All these are really easy to keep some more than others. I also have blood shrimp and chromis (blue green) royal dottyback (purple yellow), red scooter blenny, yellow watchman all in a 30 gl tank. All are growing and I have fragged the xenia and polyps. If you want specific info just ask.

[nise86]

Ok thanks for that information! Do you have any pictures of your tank teetimefun?

Also may I ask what is a UV sterlizer? Is it neccessary? Should I get it?

[SpektralerSpeer]

A UV steriliser is what you'd expect, a lamp using UV-C radiation to sterilise the water that passes through it. In my opinion it is unnecessary for a reef tank and even detrimental as it kills all the plankton, larvae etc. that have the misfortune to pass through it (these animals and plants are considered good to have in a reef tank).

Paul

[SpektralerSpeer]

I came across this and thought these would be good fish for your aquarium when you're ready:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2124
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=16

I really like this site, if I lived in the USA I'd definitely get my livestock from them.

Paul

[nise86]

aww thank you for that site to show me those fishes SpektralerSpeer!

And ok I will not get the UV sterlizer. Thanks for that information.

Also how many fish can I have in my tank?

[nise86]

Myka I forgot to say, but I'm looking at reef tank, fish and corals. What size Aqua Clear hang on back filter you think would be good?

[EWC88]

I agree with getting a Aquaclear, but it all depends on you

[nise86]

Well I believe that my grandpa is going to build me a nice stand for my tank to match everything else in the room its going in. For the top part of the tank I'm going to put mirrors ontop of it and some how keep it from nto braking and falling. Would that be a good idea with the mirrors or do something else? Also should I purchase some fans? Some to cool down lights and some to get the air out? If so how many of each? and brand? Just a normal computer one? or what?

Also should I go with the Aqua Clear? If so what model? There's so many..lol

Thanks everyone

-nise:)

[SpektralerSpeer]

Be careful using mirrors, they could be fine but just beware they need to be properly angled. I made my own reflectors from half an aluminium flue pipe coated with aluminium foil on the inside. They were really cheap and work fine.
I don't know whether you really need cooling fans. However, I'll leave the people in the US to guide you on brands!

Paul

[L and L]

Do not use mirrors (IMO). It is a point source reflection. You need to difuse the light (spread out evenly). Like Paul said.. Use aluminum foil or paint the inside of the light canopy white. Or make some reflectors out of sheet metal.

[nise86]

Ok scratch out the mirrors then. I think I'm just going to paint it white inside. Also I should be getting my book in soon, I had to order it offline cause they didn't have it in the store. But I'm so excited to get this book! I'll keep us posted on things as times go bye.

-Nise

[ASIRA]

I also recommend a good protein skimmer. Even if you later decide to co skimmerless, it's always nice to have as a back-up at the very least.

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Asira
[welcome]

Not often a newcomer jumps right in giving info on the NTTH forum.
:thumbsup:

[ASIRA]

Haha Thank you.

[nise86]

Yes I believe I stated I was going to get a skimmer, alos I haven't got the book in the mail yet :( Hopefully soon!

-Nise:)

[WaterKeeper]

Please, I know the Superbowl is only a little over a week away but don't make "book" on this forum. ;)