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View Full Version : X-10 Modules for lighting.


krafty
01/20/2007, 02:14 PM
Hi All,

Question for you...

I am using the X-10 home automation to attempt to set up my lighting for my aquarium. I am having some issues that I hope someone has some insight into.

Here is the setup.

I have two 8 socket(three prong) plugmold type power strips. These are the kind that you can get at Lowes or HD. Each one of those power strips is plugged into one socket of an outlet in the wall.

I am using two and three prong X-10 modules for all of this. Into one of the powerstrips I have most of my low power consumption items like powerheads, moonlights, and fans plugged in.

On the second power strip I have my three 150W MHs and Two 96W actinics plus an additional flourescent light for the sump.

Here is my problem...Using the X-10 software I can control all modules (turn them on and off) while all devices (powerheads, lights, etc) are off. This means that all of the X-10 modules are capable of being turned on and off. If I plug a MG lamp into an X-10 module and turn the switch on the ballast on the light will come on...the problem is that once the MH or flourescent lamp is on I cannot manipulate the X-10 module any longer. The signals do not make it to the module. This goes for all of the MHs and Flourescents. I can turn them all on at once (in the same second) but once they are on I cannot turn them off. I can still turn the low wattage devices like power heads on and off at will though.

I have read some about phase coupling and how signals can get lost between the phase that the transmitter is on and the phase that the modules are on. I read about a test that you can do. I read that if you turn on a 220V appliance like a dryer or oven that it actually bridges the two phases of power in the house and should eliminate a phase coupling problem. So, I did this but it did not work. I have moved the transmitter around to different outlets in the room and have not gotten any results. I have changed the batteries in the transmitter. I have also put an X-10 noise filter between the Actinic ballast and the X-10 module with no results.

I know a lot of people probably dont have any experience in this area but if someone does I would love some advice.

Thanks!

Josh

flfirefighter13
01/20/2007, 03:19 PM
I am by no means a expert and really no very little about x10 but have a friend that used it in his house and for some reason most of his power strips would always give weird problems, I couldnt tell for sure but have you tried plugging each individula item into the x10 and see if it is only one light thats causing the problem or maybe even a combination of the light and power strip? Just a shot in the dark.

krafty
01/20/2007, 03:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9030320#post9030320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flfirefighter13
I am by no means a expert and really no very little about x10 but have a friend that used it in his house and for some reason most of his power strips would always give weird problems, I couldnt tell for sure but have you tried plugging each individula item into the x10 and see if it is only one light thats causing the problem or maybe even a combination of the light and power strip? Just a shot in the dark.
No, I havent and that is a good idea. I will try that.

Thanks!

dougchambers
01/20/2007, 03:29 PM
Josh - Two phase coupling isn't your problem if you can turn the modules on. The problem has to do with line noise being generated by your ballasts. MH ballasts in particular are notorious for huge amounts of line noise. What is happening is that once the ballast turns on, the noise is interfering with the X10 signal getting through to the control module.

They make filters you can try, but in our experience, they don't work all that well for our types of ballasts. We had some ARO VHO ballasts that had the same problem as you describe. We traded them out for IceCap ballasts and things were better, but we never could get a MH ballast to run correctly on X10.

Most of the controller guys (Neptune, etc.) are moving away from X10 as a control method because of the multitude of problems with it.

I'd suggest you take a look at a Neptune ACJr or similar product with their Direct Connect modules. They are far more robust and allow for much greater flexibility.

On a separate note, with your lighting configuration, you are close to 6Amps and realistically closer to 8-10Amps at startup. Are you using a lamp module or a heavy duty module. It won't make a difference with the interference issue, but you could have some heat issues with a standard lamp module.

-Doug

Makeumyne
01/20/2007, 04:08 PM
I originally had my tank set up using an Aquarium control program that I had downloaded from the Internet and it was pretty awesome, I was able to set up "tides" and moonlight and seasons and dawn and dusk and, well, I had a great time with all that, but I found that with the MH light on, what I assumed was interference from the ballast stopped the rest of the control modules from working.

The way that I successfully worked around it was to run the MH from the opposite side of the room via an appliance module on the end of an extension cord. It was unattractive, but everything worked like a dream.

I can't remember why now, but I simplified everything about a year ago so that I just had dawn and dusk being controlled and I stopped using the aquarium control program and just used the program that came with the X-10 Computer module, (ActiveHome?). I sorted it out so that all of the commands could be stored in the computer module so that the computer didn't need to remain on. I also plugged all of my remaining x-10 modules - now only two appliance modules - into a powerboard. Now, I have no interference problems.

I do not know if the difference came from using fewer x-10 modules, not using the aquarium control program, or simply relying on the Computer Module, but my simplified system works well, and I don't have an extension cord across the lounge room.

Perhaps this is not useful information, but a tale so you know someone has shared your frustrations. You could always try the extension cord method.

Good luck!

Matthew.

krafty
01/20/2007, 04:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9030375#post9030375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dougchambers
Josh - Two phase coupling isn't your problem if you can turn the modules on. The problem has to do with line noise being generated by your ballasts. MH ballasts in particular are notorious for huge amounts of line noise. What is happening is that once the ballast turns on, the noise is interfering with the X10 signal getting through to the control module.

They make filters you can try, but in our experience, they don't work all that well for our types of ballasts. We had some ARO VHO ballasts that had the same problem as you describe. We traded them out for IceCap ballasts and things were better, but we never could get a MH ballast to run correctly on X10.

Most of the controller guys (Neptune, etc.) are moving away from X10 as a control method because of the multitude of problems with it.

I'd suggest you take a look at a Neptune ACJr or similar product with their Direct Connect modules. They are far more robust and allow for much greater flexibility.

On a separate note, with your lighting configuration, you are close to 6Amps and realistically closer to 8-10Amps at startup. Are you using a lamp module or a heavy duty module. It won't make a difference with the interference issue, but you could have some heat issues with a standard lamp module.

-Doug

Thanks for your comments Doug. I am fairly confident that it is a noise issue since like you said...the signal makes it across a clean line.

I am using appliance modules. They seem to be fine on heat concerns.

krafty
01/20/2007, 04:15 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9030546#post9030546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Makeumyne
I originally had my tank set up using an Aquarium control program that I had downloaded from the Internet and it was pretty awesome, I was able to set up "tides" and moonlight and seasons and dawn and dusk and, well, I had a great time with all that, but I found that with the MH light on, what I assumed was interference from the ballast stopped the rest of the control modules from working.

The way that I successfully worked around it was to run the MH from the opposite side of the room via an appliance module on the end of an extension cord. It was unattractive, but everything worked like a dream.

I can't remember why now, but I simplified everything about a year ago so that I just had dawn and dusk being controlled and I stopped using the aquarium control program and just used the program that came with the X-10 Computer module, (ActiveHome?). I sorted it out so that all of the commands could be stored in the computer module so that the computer didn't need to remain on. I also plugged all of my remaining x-10 modules - now only two appliance modules - into a powerboard. Now, I have no interference problems.

I do not know if the difference came from using fewer x-10 modules, not using the aquarium control program, or simply relying on the Computer Module, but my simplified system works well, and I don't have an extension cord across the lounge room.

Perhaps this is not useful information, but a tale so you know someone has shared your frustrations. You could always try the extension cord method.

Good luck!

Matthew. I may give the extension cord a shot to see if there is a way to keep it all working on the Active home pro software. Thanks for the information.

Josh