Light movers

[lovethereefer]

Do any of you know of light movers that move vertically rather than horizontally? Or have any ideas on how i could make them?

[perpetual98]

What are you trying to accomplish?

[lovethereefer]

in the morning to start the halides out as high as possible and then to control them and bring them down as high noon comes and then raise them back up, thought it would be pretty cool just wondering if it can be done

[perpetual98]

I don't think any commercial mover is going to accomplish what you're trying to do. The one that I use moves back and forth constantly.

You could come up with something that uses a threaded rod or maybe some pulleys to raise and lower your lighting. What you'll need to do is find a motor that is powerful enough, and moves slow enough to accomplish your goal. A stepper motor would work, but I think it would probably be more work than necessary.

[BeanAnimal]

Pulleys and a block and tackle hooked to a gear or stepper motor will work.

Threaded rod (allthread or acme) and a guide system will work.

A hybrid with threaded rod moving a block and tackle will also work.

[hahnmeister]

http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/feature.htm

^^^ you can use a light mover at an incline like shown above.

[lovethereefer]

thanks dude thats a good link

[lovethereefer]

http://www.4hydroponics.com/grow_room/literail.asp
if i went with this light roller and just have it rolling back and forth over a oceanic 215 (72x24x29) would you go with 3 250's or just 1 1000 watter or 2 or 3 400's all in lumenarc-like fixtures?

[lovethereefer]

i mean have that roller moving the light linear not up and down

[perpetual98]

Having 3 bulbs over a 6 foot tank would pretty much negate the effect of a light mover. I would suggest two halides on the light mover, one being on the motor, and the other being on an add-on "trolley" and then have them both move back and forth.

I am using an Agramover and it's dead silent. I also was in pretty regular contact with the guy who makes them, so let him know that I sent you over. :)

[perpetual98]

Oh yeah, FWIW, here's an animated gif of my light mover. The animation is MUCH faster than it is in real life. It takes about 60 seconds for it to travel the length of the tank. It currently has a 6RPM motor on it, but I've got a 2RPM motor coming from ebay, so we'll see if it's a direct swap.

http://perpetualproducts.com/images/agramover.gif

[lovethereefer]

thats pretty sweet man, so what do you think of 2-400 watters in sunlight supply lumenmax 2 fixtures?

[hahnmeister]

Depends on the Kelvin, but 250s could be enough. The advantage of light movers is that you can get away with using the same power bulbs that you would have if you didnt have the light mover... just less of them.

[lovethereefer]

what is the clearance that u are using for your rollers from the track to the bottom of the roller (mounting brackett) b/c I think I might need to find a smaller roller

[lovethereefer]

could the roller be mounted horizontally perhaps?

[hahnmeister]

As it turns out, I am also in the market for a light mover for my new tank. I need a 4' (actually, 3' would be plenty) and Im trying to make it as low profile as possible because I want to mount it in a canopy, and a big tall canopy wouldnt be a good idea.

[laverda]

I have my 250 DE mounted much closer to the water on with my light mover. I don't have to worry about it over heating the acrylic as it is not in one place long enough to cause a problem. Also the height is adjustable for when I change bulbs.

[RandalB]

Perpetual,
I've been toying with the idea of getting one of those for my 8' of frags tanks. How is that working out for you?

Not to hijack or anything...

RandalB

[perpetual98]

It's working well, but if it's doing anything for the tank, it's too early to tell. The tank has only been up a few weeks and there's only a couple SPS frags in the tank. I'll know more as time progresses.

[BeanAnimal]

I have (2) 150W bulbs close to my 4' tank to get the most out of them. This leaves a dead spot near the center brace. I will be using a light mover to move both lights back and forth over each half of the tank. Though I think will use a stepper motor to run them at an even rate over the entire photoperiod, no back and forth. After the photoperiod, they will return to home for the next day.

Hahn, I will be using threaded rod (or acme rod) and a simple guide bar to support the lights and move them. The light rack will also hold the dimmable T5. The "rack" will be on a pulley system to raise and lower it. In your case you could just build the rack into the hood.
Bean

[perpetual98]

Bean, I was going to go the route of the stepper motor and the threaded rod, but it just became too much work and money to reinvent the wheel for me. This solution works fine for me. It'll be even better if my 2RPM motor is a direct bolt-on

[BeanAnimal]

I have been on the fence as well... but I want my controller to be able to run the thing. The back and forth is ok but just not what I am looking for.

[hahnmeister]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13974&N=2004+113356

I was thinking this bugger would do me fine... ony need 3' though.

[RandalB]

Anyone have any DIY links?

RandalB

[cannarella]

Have you considered dimming them?

http://ncr101.montana.edu/Light1994Conf/5_5_Schurer/Schurer%20Dimming%20Lamps.htm
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hid_lamp_dimming/

I will try and talk to some of my companies engineers to see how feisable it is. I work for a lighting company and thought I heard that you can do this before.

Andy

[cannarella]

I was wrong. With electronic ballasts you can do a 50% power and 100% power output with some complicated wiring.

Andy

[perpetual98]

Hahn, that would work. You can usually find them cheaper on ebay.

If you need a shorter rail, just cut it with a hacksaw, that's what I did. :)

If you're ever near Hartland, let me know and you can come see my tank at work.

[hahnmeister]

The purpose for the light mover, for me at least, is to be able to use less lights over a longer area. In my case, I want to be able to use a single 250wattDE halide over a 4' long tank.

[Randall_James]

How about something like a rotating barrel with half cut out that goes around the light and just rotates 1 rev every day?

[hahnmeister]

and what would that do for us? We are trying to do 2 things with a light mover:

1. use less lights: Using one or two lights where 3 or 4 might otherwise be needed.

2. cover a longer/larger area with the lights, related to #1 in a way.

The main idea is less wattage, less fixtures needed.

As an added benefit, many of the corals we grow respond well to the periodic light/dark cycling through the day. Some scientists have indicated that constant peak exposure throughout the day may be overkill, since it really only takes a brief photoperiod to stimulate the photosynthetic reaction which will then continue to work in the shadow even for some time. Constant peak exposure could actually lead to overexposure and photo-inhibition... stunting coral growth and coloration.

Another benefit is that with a moving light source, more of the coral's surface gets hit with light, so the intense peaks in the high-light zones and whitened spots in the shadowed areas isnt as common. The coral can color in better overall.

[eameres]

Is there any consensus on how many fixutres you need to service a certain tank length when using a light mover? I'm thinking of a 24" deep, 6' long tank. Would 2 250 watt fixtures be appropriate, or should I consider one with supplementary T5 lighting? I'm just starting to investigate light movers, so pardon me if its a dumb question.

[hahnmeister]

No, that is a good question... a very good question really. The response is 'depends' though.

In my case, Ill be lighting a 48x30" tank with a single 250wattDE halide, so I will have an additional 4-6 54wattT5 bulbs running. So Im not going to have any 'dead spots' exactly. If anything, the halide is there to provide a 'peak' which comes and goes throughout the day to keep the light lovers happy.

If I was considering only the halides on the mover for a longer tank, like 6', then yes... I would most likely go with a dual inline light setup. I just couldnt go with having only 1/3 of the display lit up at any given time.

[eameres]

I do like the T5 plus single halide idea, very interesting...

[perpetual98]

Hahn, I would answer, but I think I would say exactly what you just said. :)

I'm doing exactly that over my 40. There's a 4x39W T5 setup which is bright in itself (and I'm even using 54W program start ballasts on them, but I have no idea if they're actually overdriving the bulbs) and the 150W halide is just a nice "peak" spot like you mentioned. And it adds nice shimmer lines. :)

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9053197#post9053197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eameres
I do like the T5 plus single halide idea, very interesting...

Yeah, that way I dont have any 'dead' spots... as what isnt lit by the halide will just be bluer. Im not sure yet on how many T5s I will run, and that may determine what bulbs I use, but if I only do 4 bulbs, 2 will be blue+, and the other 2 will most likely be true actinic03s. If I can run 6 bulbs, then I might add a 3000K and aquablue to the mix... then I may not even need the halide though... who knows!!!

[apayne]

perpetual98

Is that a DIY light mover? Looks nice.

[perpetual98]

My light mover is an Agramover off of ebay, but the bracketing and stuff on it is all DIY.

http://www.ericfeige.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/halide3.jpg

http://www.ericfeige.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/bracket1%7E0.jpg

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I'm currently running a light mover over my 200G holding tank and will be moving it to my 400G main tank when I stock it.

Currently I'm only running one 400W DE MH bulb on the mover. It's doing OK but I don't like the dark spots when the light is not at that end of the tank.

When I set it up on my 7' long 400 G tank I will be using 2 bulbs, spaced 3 feet apart. The mover will only move 3 feet so that each bulb only has to cover 1/2 of the tank. That way I'll get more light out of them into the tank.

On a side note, this tank sits on a west end wall with a south facing wall of windows. The tank will be lit mainly by Sun Light coming thru the windows. The 400W MH will be either 20K or 14K bulbs to add in the needed blue light as well as light the tank at night and on clowdy days.

As for your original question on a vertical mover, I don't think you will get the effect you were thinking of unless your moving the light a distance of say 5 feet or more in a vertical direction.

[BeanAnimal]

hey is that a Navy Chief or Chef :D I could use some good grub this afternoon.

I still think the stepper is the way to go. 1 slow cycle from left to right during the photoperiod. Sunrise, Sunset (DOH! now I got that STUPID "fidler on the roof" song in my head and want to shoot myself.)

[perpetual98]

Bean! Don't shoot yourself!!!







There's a long list of people here who I'm sure would be more than happy to shoot you. ;) There may be s single-file line behind StaticX.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Sorry Bean , gotta get your own grub. :D

Yea a stepper motor setup that would do one run a day would be nice. But would you reset it each night so that in the morning, it was on the same end of the tank to get the true sun arch across the tank?

I've seen a thread somewhere on here where someone has done that. Don't know how it turned out though.

Yea I think there may be a line or two out there who would help. I'm sure we all have our own line somewhere. :D

[BeanAnimal]

Ohh I am sure that I have my detractors. I knida enjoyed beatin the snot out of em as a youngster. These days I have better things to do... Like use my brain to beat the snot out of em :D

Blown63... yeah it would reset at the end of the photoperiod. My originalplans included a gearmotor and pulley system to raise and lowe the lights... but instead I will be using a Dimmable T5 for sunrise, sunset (doh that damn song again).

Bean

[hahnmeister]

I think it might be easier to do with a switch relay than a stepper motor... but I get the whole stepper motor idea: so you can hook it up to a HC11 or something and have it programmed.

Otherwise, a regular mover on some sort of optical relay, or contact relay along the track would work well with a regular digital timer. Once every hour the timer would come on and move the light 6" to the next relay. Timer shuts off and the switch is reset. Timer comes back on and the light moves 6"... It would be a dead easy thing to do on a mechanical level. The reset at night would be easy as well... just leave the mover on for an extra minute after the lights go out, and make sure that the switches all just work one way... so the light could return to starting position.

[BeanAnimal]

Hahn, the reason I want a "stepper" is simple.

I can program the "on time" and "off time" and then divide that into uniform time steps to move the light. Doing it with a regular motor would require a rotary counter, or some other type of controller. It could be done, but the stepper is easier. The same goes for trying to use relays and limit switches...

In theory with the stepper you need NO limit switches or other feedback. You simple count the steps the motor makes in each direction and translate that into a linear distance. In practive both ends of the run would have a simple limit switch for calibration and safety purposes.