Hop's 800 gallon rebirth

[Hop]

OK I know some of you thought it was sacrilege that I tore my 450-gallon system down. Numerous issues compiled and aided in the decision.

First off was the system itself. I think anyone who builds their first dream system will tell you that a lot more thought went into building it than effort in building it:) I was no different. There were a few corners that I cut and a few things that I didn’t even think of. The problems with the tank were:

1. Plumbing. I had a few hurdles to overcome and overcame them fine. What I didn’t account for was noise. The display room was not that bad, a slight trickle was noticeable as the water fell 8’ from the overflow, under the tank and into the crawl space before traveling about 21’, up 3’ and into the sump/fuge portion of the tank. The other issue was where the water came back up 3’… It was rather loud in the downstairs bathroom and at night could be heard in my daughter’s room. The sound of water was also noticeable in the master bedroom when all was quiet, but I didn’t mind this much.

2. Humidity… Yeah we’ve all heard this, but I live on the outskirts of the desert. We have low humidity and people actually run humidifiers in their homes during the winter to curtail the bloody noses… No go, on really cold nights, humidity hit 60%, my windows were completely watered over, mold grew in the window sills, my daughter’s room was right above the tank and had mildew growing on the ceiling near the sofet of the roof line. Vent fans were not enough for the system.

3. Equipment: I should have taken more time with the initial equipment purchases, but money was a factor. Basically anyone who wonders how big tanks are managed can just refer to the phrase “you can go as big as your checkbook”. So after getting things going, I wanted to tweak things a bit and found out that my flow wasn’t going to work and the lighting was sub-par as well. A whole lot of watts was spent lighting the top 20” of water and didn’t do anything for the bottom.

4. SNAILS! OMG, never gain will anything ever get plunked into my tank. I have no idea where the vermetids came from, but they certainly learned how to breed. Enough on these guys, I’m trying to forget them!

Other than that, the tank was doing really well. I can say that numerous hours was spent learning about chemistry and as far and that aspect goes, it was a very healthy environment for my critters.

So with the tank issues, my wife just bouncing back from cancer and the passing of my father I found myself swimming dangerously low on co-co puffs! It was time for the tank to come down. I transferred everything into my 125 and began selling the parts I wouldn’t need.

Then of course I found out that I got a huge raise at work… One of those once in a life time raises, and well… I can set the tank back up the way I always wanted.

So here I am planning the rebirth of the biggest tank I can fit in my house:D So long story short is that the planning is going far beyond the thought of “what do I need to do to keep a healthy tank”. The thought process is now “how can I set it up for years of trouble-free husbandry” with an emphasis on a “finished look”.

So here is the basic rundown…
-370 gallon SPS/LPS system with a few softies
-70 gallon sump
-100 gallon fuge
-50 gallon grow-out tank
-90 gallon acrylic RO/DI storage/top off container
-75 gallon acrylic salt water mixing container. Plumbed with external low-watt pump

-And- Since my wife likes the critters that can’t go in a reef well… She gets her own 180-gallon tank plumbed in as well.

So the working volume of the system will be approximately 800 gallons…

To be continued:D

[Hop]

So what are we doing differently on this build?

1. Plumbing… The plumbing will be completely replaced and I will be using spa-flex to make more of the corners, rather than regular PVC… Why? For one I can ease a 90 degree corned over several feet and use it’s flexible properties to slow the water down as if falls 8’. Questions? Stay tuned over the next few months:lol: I haven’t got it all figured out yet!

2. Humidity… I will be completely sealing the wetroom and space above the tanks off from the rest of the house. The space above the tank will be vented from the wetroom and vented outside. Sort of a loop if you will, air enters the wetroom where it is cooled by an ac unit, Fans bring the cool air from the wetroom into the space above both tanks and then exhausts the warm/hot air out. The entire wetroom and void above the tanks will be lined with fiberglass sheets, similar to the ones on the bathroom walls of your local fast-food bathroom (that’s a bad example, but you get the idea).

3. Equipment… I’m sure you get the idea here, but a few of the plans are:
- 3 400 watt 20K metal halides, supplemented with VHO for dusk to dawn effects.
- The same closed loop with OM 4-way, but with a smaller pump, panworld, rated at about 1100 gallons and a different drum for the closed loop.
- Tunzes. The bulk of the flow will come from 4 tunzes on a controller
- An AC pro will keep everything in check. I was going to use my Jr., but decided that I needed to control more outlets and wanted better control of the equipment. Remote access was also needed and CPU set up was a bonus.

The list goes on, but I’m still researching a lot of equipment!

So for now, here is a general pic of the wetroom layout. It’s really not to scale, as I will have much more room than what is depicted in this picture:
http://www.plantedtank.net/imagehosting/images/upload/729.jpg

[drstupid]

i'm glad you're getting your groove back on, hop. you've always had great advice and insights for other folks on this site, it was a pity when you had to downsize yourself. and especially for such difficult reasons... at least it's a good reminder for the rest of us what's really important.

i'm already subscribed to this thread, and can't wait to see what you accomplish.

pete

[jnarowe]

very cool. don't forget to check out Aquatronica (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AO&Category_Code=AQ).

[andyjd]

Unless you have the Tunze...dont forget about the Voretch pumps

[Hop]

jnarowe: I'll have to do some reading on that one... I really liked the Neptune once I got used to the programing language. I'll certainly be doing some research on the matter:)

andyjd: I had thought about them, but I'm not sure they would work for my set up. I was thinking at this point that the tunzes could be aimed, whereas the votecs seem to be a strait ahead venture. On one side of the tank they would obstruct the viewing pane and on the other, I have my overflow. Now I could work around the overflow, there is just enough room, but it would limit my options. Right now, just thinking, I'm 90% certain I could get the tunzes in there and have little if any of them seen unless your really looking for them. The option is still open though:)

drstupid: Thanks! It's funny though how things work. If I had got the raise two weeks earlier, the tank would still be up and I would just be trying to figure out band-aids... So I'm actually glad it worked this way. Plus it gives me a chance to buy some frags and get a year of growth on them before they go in the big tank:)

[SirTony76]

Awesome man, I'm glad that you are able to do this!

TP

[purebullet417]

good luck i loved reading your 450 gallon so well see how this is

[The Reefer91]

i'm so glad you're starting up a BIG tank again. can't wait to see what comes of this :)

[NickInMiami]

Looks like a great plan of attack. Can't wait to see future updates. GL

[gkarshens]

How many threads are you going to make me subscribe to??? JK Looking forward to it.

[jnarowe]

the Aquatronica does have some advantages over the Neptune in that it is more flexible and easier to install multiple probes and manage multiple tanks. I was a bit shocked when i got my ACIII Pro and it could only handle one tank. Now there is an add-on to run more probes but I definitely think it is worth checking into. The downside would be service where with the Neptune you can call Curt and get immediate help. He is a really good guy. I just think the Neptune product is a little behind in some areas.

Don't forget about the Tunze rocks! :D

[Hop]

SirTony76: Thanks. I hope your not in a hurry:) I'm guessing at the minimum, I won't be turning on the RO/DI for 8 months and suspect that 12 months is a more realistic goal.

purebullet417: I'm hoping that this one will be more informative. As I mentioned a few months back, if I thought I had something worth sharing in the reef hobby I would pick up some web space... So I anticipate that this one will be worth grabbing some space, detailing a build and I think, just maybe that when this is done, the website will begin offering something to reef enthusiasts:) Can't go into detail on that one!

The Reefer91: Thanks! Me too, although I wish I had the space to go bigger:) It just doesn't seem that big anymore. And after the Hundreds of hours I have doing woodwork in this house, I'm not moving anytime soon:lol:

NickInMiami: Hopefully:) I have to build a better shop before I can start:) Should just take a weekend for that, but when done I'll be able to rip 4'X8' sheets by myself with no issues.

gkarshens: This is the last one... I hope:) The old addiction thread is done... I will not be posting there. The Nano thread is just for blabbing about what I have and asking for help on what's in there now... And this one, that will have it's really slow times:lol:

jnarowe: I'll definitely look into it. As far as the rocks go... I was planning on two of them in each front corner:)

[mflamb]

Welcome back!!!!!!!!!!

[Mishap]

I'm still not caught up on the old thread! I was pumped for the table of contents that never came!

[Riona]

Yay! I can't wait to see the new tank, since I still have to dig up pictures of the old one. . . Great that it is going well!

[Hop]

mflamb: Hey thanks:)

Mishap: Your not missing anything and no table of contents needed on this one yet!

Riona: Hey! Hope that chaeto is doing well for you:)

I tried replacing the above image in the picture host, but something went amiss... Won't let me do it. So here is a better depiction of the room, with it being a little more to scale:)

http://www.plantedtank.net/imagehosting/images/upload/735.jpg

[JR719]

I'll be following this one too. Good to see your back at it and your wife is ok.

[agarza]

I've followed you around your 450, then the 125 nano, so you bet I'll be here for this one, looks great so far.

[kipher]

Hop - Congratz on the raise!!! I can't wait to see this project develop. BTW, you grafic of the wet room is great, draw it yourself? I didn't get the opportunity to follow your 450g system, but I'm on board for this one. GL

[Riona]

Growing VERY well! I didn't realize it when I first got it, but when I switched tanks it was taking up the entire gap I'd put it in :) Thanks again btw ^_^

[melev]

Hop, the only thing I don't like is where the grow out tank is located. It'll be hard to access and hard to clean. Working on frags should not be a back breaker or you'll never do it.

The rest is going to be awe -- wait for it -- some! :D

[Hop]

JR719: Thanks bud! And she is better than new!

agarza: BTW, where is the update of your thread:) I'm subscribed and all.

Riona: No problem! Glad it's working out for you.

melev: Interesting. Thanks for the observation. Maybe I'll map it out with cardboard boxes first and see how the reach is... I have a 2' box I use to get around to the buckets and stuff now, I had thought about just reusing it... Mental note added:)

[Tripspike]

Hoppin on...

[Randall_James]

and awaaaaaay we go :)

[Hop]

Tripspike: Welcome aboard:) It will be a slow progression.

Randall_James: Thanks for stopping by! I'm sure I'll be asking some questions of you as we go!



So I took a break from researching equipment for the wetroom and turned my attention to the lighting. I've been plugging a few questions around for those with 400 watt halides trying to get an opinion. So far I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with icecap 400 watt electronic ballasts, but I'm up in arms on bulb selection. Trying to decide on Hqi or mogul... I was thinking 20k Hqis in a Hamilton fixture. My plan is 3 400 watt 20Ks supplemented by 4 Actinic VHOs for dusk to dawn effect.

There seems to be a ton of info on 250 watt fixtures, but when you get into the 400 and 1000 watt specs, the info and selection goes downhill rather quickly:D Anyone out there wanna throw out suggestions:)

[JR719]

Hop,

What about T-5's? From what I've been reading they not only use less energy, but are just about effective as MH's. I'm looking to put them on mine with 2 MH's. Any ideas?

[Hop]

I dunno. I really like the shimmer from the MH, so those are definitely going back on it. As far as the supplementation goes, I was thinking I already have the ballast and reflectors etc. for the VHOs and adding T5's might be over kill for a supplemental system that is only going to be on for a few hours a day...

Then just when I think I know exactly what I want, I stumble upon this tank:

http://www.systemsu.com/reeftank/January2007/front.jpg

It's sidewinder770's tank, with the same dimensions as mine... He's running 250 watt 14Ks... If this is a true representation of the color of his tank, I may be right back at square one:) I fired off an pm asking him if basically, if he did it all over again would he go with the same lights or change them up.

Maybe I should post before and after pictures of my hair in this thread... Because it's either going to be all gray or gone!

[jnarowe]

yeah, I remember he had that sweet stand.

[Randall_James]

I just ordered a Hamilton 400W 20K bulb for one of my Anemone tanks that is 32" deep.

This Anemone was in a 19 deep tank under 175W of 10K MH and did just fine. However after moving him to this "Species" tank, he has retreated under a rock ledge and has not come out in almost a month...

Anyway, I will update you on the amount of "blue" the bulb has (I like the deep water look myself)

[The Reefer91]

Hop, what are the dimensions on your tank? sorry if i missed them.

[drummereef]

That tank is sweet. Can't wait for updates on yours!

[Hop]

Randall_James: Thanks... I really like the color of the above tank, not too much, but enough blue...

The Reefer91: The main tank is my same one from before... It's 96'X30"X30":D

[jnarowe]

Randall_James: That may have nothing to do with the light. Anemones, IME, take quite a while to get acclimated to a new system, whether it's tied in to the old one or not. They seem to be very aware of environmental changes and will hide for a long time until they are ready to come out. My GBTAs all have hidden for months at a time, and so has my PLTA.

Hop: Maybe you need to get a larger display tank? :lol:

[cbeitel]

Great News Hop!!!!!

Can't wait to see the scetches come to life. (I just knew it wasn't going to be long!) ;)

[Hop]

drummereef: Thanks, it will be slow this time!

jnarowe: I've thought about bigger as this tank doesn't seem big anymore until you are getting rock out of it:) But there is no where in my little house to go bigger:D

cbeitel: I estimate that construction will begin in about 5 weeks on the system itself. I have to get some things built in the shop first, so that will begin in two weeks. As things further along, I'll explain why the shop had to come first;)

[Slickdonkey]

Looks like this will be a nice project. I'm curious why you're scaling back the pump on the closed loop, and why are you switching the drum on the 4-way? Which one did you have and which one are you moving to?

[Hop]

Too much flow for 1" nozzles and not enough for the tank... If that makes sense. So either I upgrade to 1.2-2" outputs and up the pump(too much wattage), adding a second loop or I look into other means to move water. I decided on the tunzes. Should give me nice turn over in the low 30X range at less than 100 watts.

I'm still bouncing back and forth on the OM. Last night I was thinking of slapping it on my return pump (approx 1200 gph at the tank) w/ 1" outputs. I had drum version 3 I think (2 outlets at a time/3 when switching), but will be going to the version with only one output at a time.

[Slickdonkey]

Interesting. I'm using the version 2 in my configuration. I can see why you might want a smaller pump with only one output open at a time. I imagine there would be some extra backpressure.

[Cuby2k]

Hop, having gray hair is not so bad, or so I've heard.

As my life goes on hold for a while I'll be living vicariously through your's and other's tank threads. And don't worry about the time, the addiction seems to pull resources as needed to finish the job. :)

Great job on the drawings for your room BTW.

[cbeitel]

cbeitel: I estimate that construction will begin in about 5 weeks on the system itself. I have to get some things built in the shop first, so that will begin in two weeks. As things further along, I'll explain why the shop had to come first;) [/B]

Shop?! Awesome!! You're priorities are straight in my book. I have a second garage that I have plans on converting into a dedicated workshop. Wish I had done it first. Would have been cheaper, thats for sure!! Now that you've mentioned it, what is that shop for other than a man's playground??

[Hop]

Slickdonkey: I'll know for sure in a while. Right now I've put some emphasis on researching lighting and when that's done, I'll move back to finalizing the flow options:)

Cuby2k: Thanks, I'm just learning to play with Google sketch up... There are some things that make it nice and some things that still confuse me!

cbeitel: I just call it a shop, because I don't park cars in the garage anymore... No room with all the woodworking equipment. It's time to clean it up and make it a work space:) I'll be building some nice work areas and incorporating everything to work with each other. IE a 4X8 table on casters that houses the table saw. It can be moved to use the other work spaces as a run off table. I need to be able to rip 4X8 sheets by myself with precision:) And yes, I guess it is a man's playground! The wife and I are dabbling with the idea of opening a small side business and I'll need the additional workspace!

[cbeitel]

Love It!!! Gotta send a pick or 2 so we can slober over that too.

Keep on Reefing!

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9095452#post9095452 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cbeitel
Now that you've mentioned it, what is that shop for other than a man's playground??

Never, ever call it that. It is a WORKSHOP, because when we are using it, we are WORKING. :lol: Did you miss the Men's Seminar on what to call various parts of the house?

Here's a quiz question from that seminar:

What is the "Library" referring to?

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9095724#post9095724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Never, ever call it that. It is a WORKSHOP, because when we are using it, we are WORKING. :lol: Did you miss the Men's Seminar on what to call various parts of the house?

Here's a quiz question from that seminar:

What is the "Library" referring to?

The potty. A place where reading gets done:D

[cbeitel]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[jnarowe]

Very good Hop. Glad to see CO hasn't turned you into a girl from the "Boulder Effect". :D

[Hop]

OK I officially have a headache! This lighting thing drives me nuts! I'm seriously debating now between Phoenix 14K 250s and XM 20K 400 watters. The par running the 14K 250s is 88 with a PFO ballast and the 20K 400s with an icecap is 99. The 20K obviously have a peak in the 450 area and a little peak in the 540 range... But if I'm running actinic supplementation...

I really don't want to make a expensive mistake here
:rolleyes:

[melev]

Just copy my lights, and give your brain a rest. :)

http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/lighting.jpg

[Hop]

LOL. That came up too... Running 250s on the side and a 400 in the middle. The way I want to scape the tank, it would work. Sort of like what was set up before, but more of an emphasis on future coral placement. I was also looking into a light mover that could move everything about 1.5' over the course of the day:)

And to think I was supposed to be working today:D

[Slickdonkey]

You're not going to get the lighting combination right on the first try, it just won't happen! Make your setup flexible and you'll eventually find something you like.

[MrSpiffy]

Hop, looks like you're doing great so far! I just wanted to point out that a previous poster mentioned T-5's. I would say you could use T-5's instead of VHO. The PAR is better, you get more lumens per watt, and the power usage and heat output is less than VHO. It might be something to consider. :) Otherwise, good luck on picking out MH bulbs! If I were you, my head would be spinning just THINKING about thinking about picking out bulbs! (Yes, I typed that right!) ;)

[Randall_James]

Well 10K 400W Hamilton out, 20K 400W Hamilton in and I like it a lot... I am used to a break in period on my MH's that starts out on the "yellow" side and this bulb did not do that...

It (20K) is at 40hrs now and has not changed any visible color. The color has a noticeable blue to it but it is more like I have the T5 actinics running along side the 10K. Will let you know how it looks at 100hrs :)

[jnarowe]

I love my 1000W 20K lamps. Mine are Ushio.

[Randall_James]

Guess I should have added that Hamilton bulbs are in fact Ushio's (Per Sanjay)

[jnarowe]

really? I didn't know that.

[Hop]

What ballast are you running Randall_James? Looking at the lighting website, it looks around 90 PAR and up to 109 for a ushio 20k. Under the hammies, it only lists a 14K and a 10K. Looking at the 14K, the par is horrible unless you use an HQI ballast, which drives them up a lot higher, but if I recall correctly, significantly lowers the bulb life:(

Great, just thinking about lighting is giving me a headache again. I'm going to go get some migraine medication and start thinking about flow... Flow doesn't give me a headache:D

[Randall_James]

That is how I found out about the Ushio/Hamilton link, there was no Hamilton 20K listed. After a couple queries, I was informed that Ushio makes Hamiltons bulbs...

I run the M59 ballast (PPFD 109)

Plots (http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/alldataforalamp.php?x1=56&x2=17&x3=Ushio Blue 400W 20000K SE 1&x4=Magnatek 400W (M59)&x5=N)

[Hop]

109 seems pretty good:) I wonder what they would run with the icecap ballasts... Probably lower...

[Randall_James]

I would bet it is splitting hairs, probably could not see a physical difference and I doubt the tank would behave any different

[Lordhelmet]

man i've been in a cave for a week. I'm totally stoked for this hop. will be following this thread very close!

[Hop]

Lordhelmet: Thanks! This is going to be a very slow process... So don't expect a lot of progress too quickly:) As mentioned, the first step is to get the shop refurbished. After that I can give you a little insight on what will happen...

1. The woodwork will be completed in the wetroom in order to facilitate all the equipment. Expect a finished look with everything laminated. It will be more than a room that holds equipment. The renderings on the first page are pretty accurate.

2. After pricing custom work:rolleyes: I will be making sump, fuge etc. myself.

3. When that is completed, expect the plumbing to start.

Then once the plumbing is done, this should go pretty quick to get the big tank up and running. After the tank is up and cycled (approx 350-400 lbs of base rock and 40-60lbs of good, quality live rock) I'll move only the livestock back into the tank. Then I'll finish up by replacing my 125 gallon tank in the livingroom, with a 180 gallon RR tank, plumbed into the main system. This tank will be my wife's and my understanding is that it will be a FOWLR... She really wants a Harlequin Tusk and an eel:)

So hopefully that gives you a bit of an idea... As far as a time frame goes, I'm hoping that the big tank is back up and running by next spring and the 180 by next fall... In the midst of all this, I'm trying to get a bit of a business going:) More on that later!

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9132372#post9132372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
Hop, looks like you're doing great so far! I just wanted to point out that a previous poster mentioned T-5's. I would say you could use T-5's instead of VHO. The PAR is better, you get more lumens per watt, and the power usage and heat output is less than VHO. It might be something to consider. :) Otherwise, good luck on picking out MH bulbs! If I were you, my head would be spinning just THINKING about thinking about picking out bulbs! (Yes, I typed that right!) ;)

Sorry, somehow I missed your post MrSpiffy... The punch of the lighting is really the MH. The plan with the additional VHOs is for sunrise/senset effects only. I've only seen one T5 setup in person and the corals certainly did not have the "pop" and color that my corals with the URI actinic had... This is why I'm thinking of just using my current ballast with the VHOs. If I see that a need arises for additional lighting, it may be an option and/or I see that the T5 bulbs begin to rival the same color pop as the URis...

But then again, I still have about a year of researching:D

[Hop]

OK... Half of step one DONE! I got the 4X8 table built with the table saw incorporated... Still have to build the matching runoff/benches. I thought I would have time today, but ran out of time. I'll try to get a few pics up to prove that I really am working on getting this thing back up and running:D

[jnarowe]

talk about DIY...building the saw table! nice.

[Hop]

Thanks... Ok here are the pics. Yeah, I know the garage/shop is dirty and it makes it look like there is no room, but believe me, when this is done there will be plenty of room and I can still park the wife's car inside:D

Basic idea was that I needed to be able to rip 4X8 sheets by myself. I will have runoff tables to help, along with a roller sawhorse. The attached fence guide is for small projects. I'll have a large fence guide mounted to the side of the table when needed. Also the table was design to hold and clamp projects to...

Get the idea that I'll be doing all the acrylic work myself:D I used to do acrylic work back in my late teens/early twenties, so I think I'll do OK... Hopefully...

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/02/table1.jpg
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/02/table2.jpg
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/02/table3.jpg

[jnarowe]

very nice. I have the same saw. why does it look to me like the saw is in sideways?

[melev]

That looks awesome. Now I want one. :)

Btw, what you need is to get a decent saw. Check out www.sawstop.com
:D

[Hop]

jnarowe: Thanks and I'm not sure why it looks like it's sideways to you:D Must be an illusion... I spent hours making sure everything was square and flush:lol:

melev: That is a great looking saw... And only $2500 more than I have into this one:D The table was $135 to make and the saw was on sale last year for father's day. My wife picked it up for me from a friend who works in a hardware store. I know with tons of accessories it was less than $100:) We'll see if things take off, I may need a saw like that!!!!

[melev]

I really want one just to keep all 10 fingers!

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9236268#post9236268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I really want one just to keep all 10 fingers!

It just sounds wrong to say I can't afford to keep all my fingers:lol: I guess I can't afford the saw to keep my fingers right now.. Nope that doesn't sound any better... I'll just say I want one too:D

[jnarowe]

I was just thinking that I would put the saw running in the other direction. I have wanted to build a table like that for some time but never got the nads to do it. Do you have plans?

And that saw is simply psychotic. I have a hard time believing it works. I can still remember dropping my T-square on my table saw before it had come to a complete stop...

[Hop]

Nope no plans. Just thought it out and built it:D I actually wanted to build a table that sat within a table, on rollers. So you mount up what you are cutting and then roll the entire rolling shelf/table over the saw. Then there would be almost zero mis-cuts and oopses, but I figured that I would lose around 30% of the saws depth abilities, so I built it this way instead.

And that would be a little scary dropping the T-square on the saw! Kickbacks are bad enough!

[jnarowe]

scary is a total understatement...I just about crapped my pants.

[melev]

I bet you did. That super saw would have shut down PDQ, to be sure.

[jnarowe]

How would it respond if you were using it as a cut off saw for metal?

[Hop]

Well I couldn't sleep last night so at 4am I completed the additional bench/run off table:) Now I need to clean up and organize! Then I can start on the wetroom construction here in the near future and get a few other things going.

I also need to get the main display completely cleaned up and the scratches polished out. It may be slow, but at least it's progress:D

[jnarowe]

faster than me. what are you using to polish the display?

[Hop]

Going to fix the big oops with a micro-mesh kit, paper and elbow grease and then I'll be finishing up with a buffing wheel (or if I remember correctly Mr. Wilson pointed out a good kit in your thread somewhere).
Aside from where my wife scratched the tank when I was out of town, there is only one minor scratch from when I was tearing the tank down and I dropped a rock.

[Avast Marine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9073640#post9073640 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop

1. .... a slight trickle was noticeable as the water fell 8’ from the overflow, under the tank and into the crawl space before traveling about 21’, up 3’ and into the sump/fuge portion of the tank. The other issue was where the water came back up 3’…

To be continued:D

I would like as much detail on this as you can give me. I am in a similar plumbing dilemma with the new tank I am planning. I want to drop the drain under the crawlspace run it under the living room to the opposite end of the house about 25' and then come back up to a room where I have space to put all of my equipment. Since you have set up this system once and are now redoing it surely armed with well experienced knowledge I am very excited I found this thread. :D

[Hop]

The shop is 90% completed as of tonight. I'm literally just getting everything in place, building a few more mounts and such and putting everything away.

So the next step, which I may not be able to get to till march is to rip the old wetroom out completely. I'll have a little electrical rewiring/moving to do, but the process should be fairly easy. I have half the wood left over from the shop project. I'll be paneling the entire wetroom with fiberglass sheets, completely sealing the humidity issues and beginning the build pictured on the first page of this thread.

Any one staying up to date on low-operating cost/efficient exhaust fans? In the past I thought I remembered a Braun unit that was pushing about 140cfm that was efficient, but I can find it now... I did find one that was 110cfm. I saw nutone is offering a dual fan/300cfm fan, but I don't think I'll need that much. I need one for the wetroom and one over each tank. Each area will be sealed from the rest of the house and air from outside will be inducted and exhausted from the space above the tank.

I'm planning on running an AC unit to cool the wetroom and if that doesn't work, I'll pick up a chiller.

[melev]

If you are using a ceiling vent/fan, the lower the sones, the better. I've been talking about buying a 1 sone fan for over a year, but never pursued the project. I think I spent too much time responding to woodwork threads to have time to install anything. :lol:

Where did you get that wood with the white facing? I like it.

[Hop]

Thanks, I was curious what the sones rating meant. I was looking up the watts/amps on the instructions:) I'll keep shopping around. I think 140ish would be perfect for the wetroom(previously running 80cfm and it was almost enough) and about 100cfm over each tank(the 80 CFM did a fine job before).

The laminated particleboard is sold at decent non-mainstream hardware stores here, right next to the regular particleboard. Here I can only find it in 3/4" and it is HEAVY. They run $39 here, $34 if I drive an hour. After pricing laminate, this was cheaper. I'll be using this as much as possible in the wetroom and then laminating the edges and all the other wood for a uniform and clean look.

[Hop]

Well I got everything put away finally:D I still have to get my drill press and some other table tools up and mounted, but that won't be until I start working and seeing where things need to go.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/02/shop2.jpg

The saw table is mounted on casters and can be moved anywhere around the shop. It also tucks inside the "L" shape of the bench for when I need more room or need to pull cars in and out of the garage.

SO after a few more small steps, I'll start gutting the wetroom:D

The count down begins(too bad it's a really slow countdown, or maybe it's more like 999,999,999.1475 bottles of beer on the wall?):rollface:

[jnarowe]

Looks great. How did you get it level and square?

[Hop]

J: Basically with levels and squares:lol:

The bench was built level and square and for the table, I found that the slope of the garage floor was 3/4" for every 8'. So I just build blocks to put under the casters. That way if I need to move the table to another spot or direction, I can level it out there:)

[jnarowe]

hmmm. I was wonder how you were keeping it level in the garage with the casters on.

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9246548#post9246548 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dandy7200
I would like as much detail on this as you can give me. I am in a similar plumbing dilemma with the new tank I am planning. I want to drop the drain under the crawlspace run it under the living room to the opposite end of the house about 25' and then come back up to a room where I have space to put all of my equipment. Since you have set up this system once and are now redoing it surely armed with well experienced knowledge I am very excited I found this thread. :D

Dandy: Sorry, you snuck in under the radar and I missed your post:) This is exactly what I'm doing so, I gues you can learn from my mistake:) If we break this into two parts, I think we can make the drains dead silent.

First the drain: The Durso pipes worked well. Very well and the only change I'm going to make is that I'm going to put a plastic needle valve on each one, rather than just drilling holes. This way I can fine tune the air/water mix. I'm also going to move the intake for these valves higher up in the canopy to avoid salt creep issues. Before I had to clean the holes every few weeks.

As far as the water sound in the display room, from the water dropping 8', I think it could have been completely cured by just insulating the drain pipe. This time, however, I'm going to be using spa-flex which will slow the falling water before the horizontal run.

Second part is the rise back up into the wetroom: The issue here for me was that the plumbing had cut a 90 to go parallel with the joists, another 90 to go through a joist and into the wetroom and then a series of 45s to the vent and then the sump. The noise in the wetroom was not bad, but those 90s happened right under a bathroom and no matter how I insulated it, it was loud and carried up the wall to the second level.

So to fix this, I'm still just going to be using spa-flex. This should allow a strait run to the hole through the joists with longer, sweeping corners. I think that with some extra insulation it will be completely quiet:)

But stay tuned... Unless something major happens, the itinerary for this plumbing project should be the end of may to the middle of June:)

[Avast Marine]

Thanks, I will still be here in June and thats right about the time I will be ordering my tank so I have time :). What size drain line are you using and how much flow do you antisipate through that pipe with this plumbing configuration?

BTW, I really dig that rolling saw bench! You should consider building a router mount into it now if you plan on doing a bunch of acrylic work.

[Hop]

For the main display, I'm thinking of running a Panworld 200ps. So with headloss, around 1500gph. Most likely I'll be doing the 2 1.5" drains that come together into single 2" line again. Worked well before, but when the time comes, I may just run 2 separate 1.5" lines.

And the router has been thought about:D Just not sure where or how I want it yet... Thanks.

[jnarowe]

I would do separate drain lines so if you need to work on one, the other can still operate. It's also nice to be able to divert flow. I have an inbound sump and an outbound sump and I can take either one offline by moving one or both drain lines. And I would use a Hammerhead or a Dart. Dude. :D

[Hop]

J: Having both drains in the same overflow, takes the ability to run them singly out of the equation:( It may have been the only design issue when I planned that I'm not thrilled with, but it still works. The deciding factor on running one or two drains, boils down to is whether I want to punch yet another hole through wood in my house:)

Edit: I do see how drains could be seperated with a valve even with them in the same overflow... Trying to fix dinner and type is bad for accurate responses:D

And I'm pretty set on the Panworld. Remember I was very disappointed with my previous hammerhead... It was costing over $30 a month to run and electricity is pretty cheap here. It was also pushing three times the amount of water I needed. I did love the dart, but I don't think it would do so well with 11 feet of head... The panworld I had before was great, but needed a little more punch, so that's why I've decided on the panworld. Just think how cool it will look when there are three panworlds lined up and the end of the sump:D

[jnarowe]

not sure what you mean by that. I have one continuous coast-to-coast overflow and 3 drain lines installed in it. Each one has a valve and can be shut off just below the overflow and removed for cleaning.

My system can run on any single drain line so it's not a problem to shut one down, and I consider this an important safety factor in the event that a drain line should become clogged.

See, I though t of everything except how to keep my tank room from flooding! :lol:

PS. And punching holes is considered a higher eschelon therapuedic remedy. Much better than punching perps. :)

[Hop]

That's just where my thought process was at the time of the reply. I was thinking that shutting one drain would still keep water flowing into the overflow, thus making cleaning/removal difficult. Not a thoughtful, nor intelligent response, but it was what I was thinking after reading the post:)

And the punching of the hole in the wall is not what scares me, but the fact that in a run of 3' in the joist I already have a 1.5" return, a 2" drain, a drain for the sink and hot and cold water lines:) I'm running out of room to keep them hidden under the sink and out of the way!

I'm already trying to figure out how to plumb everything in the wetroom. It's not that any one part is difficult, it's a matter of it being a lot of pipe in a little area! Although the diagram indicates where things will likely be placed, it doesn't show plumbing or all the equipment. One of the "little tweaks" I'm planning is an eheim 1250 mounted on the side of the SW mixing tank, like an RC skimmer pump. There will also be a lot of little things that may not ever get noticed that are going to make the system very smooth. The geek is coming out of me on this build:D

[jnarowe]

glad to hear it. It's nice to see you come full circle in such a short time. :)

[melev]

Your garage is entirely too clean. Seriously, that just shows what an 'poser' you are. Now when you see crap everywhere you can tell about a guy's experience - usually anyway. :lol:

Hop knows I'm kidding..

[divecj5]

Hey Hop. Just wanted to chime in and tell you how awesome that table looks...looks like someone has some woodworking skills for sure :) Everything looks great and glad to hear that things are coming along....slowly but surely. It will definitely be worth it in the end considering what you had running previously looked awesome. Great job man.

Adam

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9255438#post9255438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Your garage is entirely too clean. Seriously, that just shows what an 'poser' you are. Now when you see crap everywhere you can tell about a guy's experience - usually anyway. :lol:

Hop knows I'm kidding..

I had to clean it for the pictures:) It's usually a maze to get around in:D But with the new venture starting, I realized it was time to organize! I've worked in some messy places and hate wondering around looking for things like the tape measure:lol:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9256028#post9256028 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divecj5
Hey Hop. Just wanted to chime in and tell you how awesome that table looks...looks like someone has some woodworking skills for sure :) Everything looks great and glad to hear that things are coming along....slowly but surely. It will definitely be worth it in the end considering what you had running previously looked awesome. Great job man.

Adam

Thanks! We'll hope everything goes well. I'm going to have a few extra pokers in the fire and the next year might be a little busy:D

Trying to ensure that everything can go as smooth as possible!

[Hop]

Drives me nuts! When I tore the old system down, I lost the remote control for the satellite dish:( Still can't find it:rolleyes:


In other news, I'm going to take this week pretty easy, but I am hoping on getting the old plumbing ripped out and the wetroom stripped. When I get back from Kansas I want to be able to get the fiberglass hung in the room and get the shelving built. After that it will be time to get busy building the sump and water storage! Then the plumbing will start to unfold.

After much deliberation, I think I've decided on a Panworld 200PS for the return, feeding the OM 4-way. Then I'm looking at the Tunze stream 6100X4 kit. This should give me about 40X turnover max. The 4 way will be tied to the four center nozzles. Then I'll have two tunzes in each of the far, rear corners and two, hidden in Tunze faux rocks in the front corners. Fine flow adjustments will be made with the 1" OM nozzles and the tunzes will be set up with the light sensor for calmer nights:)

The old closed loop intake will be plumbed as a drain with a valve on it and no longer used.

I'm still up in the air on lighting:rolleyes:

[InvaderJim]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9255438#post9255438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Your garage is entirely too clean. Seriously, that just shows what an 'poser' you are. Now when you see crap everywhere you can tell about a guy's experience - usually anyway. :lol:

Hop knows I'm kidding..

He could have OCD. :lol:

Garage is lookin good. :)

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9289750#post9289750 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by InvaderJim
He could have OCD. :lol:

Garage is lookin good. :)

My wife might agree with the OCD part occasionally:D

Thanks, hopefully it will work out quite well when I get the monster sump going. Sitting down today and figuring, may have changed the sump design from two (fuge and sump) connected via drains to one large sump/fuge in the shape of an "L". Only time and a tape measure will be able to help the decision:)

[Enderrea]

Good God Man! when you redo things you really redo them! you are stuck with me now :)

[jnarowe]

I really like the inbound and outbound sumps I have. No way for micro-bubbles to get back to the display.

[Hop]

It's a great idea, but I still only have 11'X5" wetroom to work with:lol: I'm sitting here trying to play with sketch up to get the maximum filtration in the smallest footprint. If I run the L shaped sump, I would have a 24"X24"X24" fuge, with elevated chaeto basket and then a 6' run of sump for equipment and baffles.

Might be hard to describe, maybe I'll clean up one of the sketches and post it later:lol:

[jnarowe]

the fuge really needs to be a lot larger to have any real impact on the system, IMO. If you don't have the room, you might want to skip it.

[Hop]

The numbers can be played with as far as dementions, but I thought a 60 gallon area to grow pods, house a bit of live rock and grow a big ball of chaeto would be beneficial. I know that if I wanted to throw out a RDSB, I would need a much larger foot print, but I was thinking that area would be sufficient for nutrient export through the chaeto and a predator free pod zone:)

I could easily make this area 24"X30"X24" or even up to 48"X30X24 and then shrink the sump area and move the equipment... I'm trying to keep the running depth of the sump/fuge at 24" for lighting purposes:D

[Hop]

Great! You get my head spinning, second guessing my thinking, crunching numbers and then log off, leaving me hanging:lol:

[jnarowe]

Yeah 24" deep is good enough for a fuge and I think no matter what, a predator free zone for growing pods, snails, etc. is a great idea. I have a small fuge on my system and after discussing this issue with notable reefers including Steve Weast, have concluded that in order to see a beneficial nutrient export a 200g+ tank would be needed. In fact, it really should be much larger based on what I have surmised from research. I have been seriously considering installing a 300+g display refugium myself. I really enjoy that part of the system and feel whatever size it is, I can use it for various purposes.

Just some food for thought. Steve Weast actually removed his fuge because he felt it just wasn't large enough to do the job.

[Ziggy953]

WOW.....You guys make my head spin! I suddenly feel like all I have is a goldfish bowl. I've spent the last 3 days reading your post Hop, WOW! I'm glad that you wife is doing well! I haven't posted much on RC, been on another site...Seeing as how I would love to do something similar to what you or Jonathan are doing I think I will be keeping tack of your progress! Thanks BTW for taking the time to put your life and hobby out there for the rest of us to learn from! My hat is off to you and Marc and the rest of you guys that have such a love and passion for this hobby and equal love and passion for sharing your knowledge! Many of us would not be here if it not for the encouragement and help from fellow reefers like you!

Thanks!!!

Oh yeah....I can't wait to see the tank up and running again!

[jnarowe]

I NEVER log off! :lol:

[jnarowe]

Ziggy953:

[welcome]

And I hear ya. If it weren't for reefers like Marc, Steve, Spazz, Weatherson, and Hop, I would never have been able to build my system.

[Hop]

Ziggy953: Welcome aboard! Nice to see that someone out there is reading:) Sometimes I think I put too much out there that is not reef related. But it really does show how life influences the reef and vise-versa:) So again, welcome aboard and thanks. I hope when this is up and running it really helps people out on any scale and my knowledge improves as well, so I can help others!

jnarowe: Sorry, my friends list said you were busy doing something else:D

[Ziggy953]

Well truth be told I found Marc's site one day doing a bit of research on a SW and it was his site that convinced me I could do it. Of course I stuck with the "its for my son" story to keep the grandparents chipping in!! (my son is 18 months old) As it turns out they like the tank as much as my wife and I do. My mother-in-law bought a beautiful trachyphyllia and told me after taking her to a LFS that she had no idea how beautiful a reef tank could be. I quickly told her that she could spend any amount of money that she wanted to when ever she wanted to!!!!!
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5118/trachyphylliats0.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trachyphylliats0.jpg)

[Ziggy953]

YIKES!!!! Sorry about the GIANT pic....I grabbed the wrong one....I meant put the thumbnail....sorry sorry sorry....

[Hop]

LOL. just go back and edit your post real quick. Add the url for the thumb rather than the full sized pic:)

Or, just leave it and I'll change my screen settings:lol:

[Ziggy953]

Fixed it....duh....Gotta love those little brain-poots

[jnarowe]

really nice pic though. Beautiful specimen.

[Ziggy953]

Thanks. It is one of my favorites!!!

[Hop]

Yup, very nice!

On a side note, keep your kid interested as long as you can:) A couple months before I tore the tank down, I actually had a group of elementary kids (my son included)come through the house for a tour of the tank. They were studying the ocean in class and I guess my tank was the closest thing around. It was fun to give a quick speal on the critters and how things work together in nature and answer questions. It was definitely the best tank related experience to date!

[Ziggy953]

Oh I totally agree!!! My son and I spend a lot of time together looking at the fish tanks! I like many have more then one. I have a 55 planted community an few 10s the 72g reef and a couple of 5g picos...My son has his own little 5g guppy tank in his room that he loves. I make sure that we feed the FW tanks together and let him feed his own tank (with my help of course)

[Hop]

OK jnarowe (Mr. Flood-in-ater) :lol: I just noticed that!

What about a 54"X30"X30" display fuge with a 6" DSB, rock and chaeto. I could then run about a 42"X24"X24" sump. I might have to move a little equipment, but the footprint of the wetroom wouldn't change? Otherwise I'm going outside with a tape measure and a beer and contemplate the world and my planning:D

I would like to get this figured soon as when I get back from Kansas, the wetroom is getting gutted and I'll start building the framework and finishing off all the supporting structure so I can get the acrylic ordered... So now is definitely a good time to throw ideas back and forth:D

[jnarowe]

Hey, you said it first! :p

I think 210g fuge is probably a good size considering your space constraints. I would NOT put in the RDSB unless you are fully prepared to remove and replace 1/3 of the sand about every six months. Otherwise you are just creating a nutrient sink. That means complete access to the entire fuge.

I will probably move my RO/DI reservoir outside when I do some landscape changes and free up some tank room.

The question is, will the sump be large enough for your equipment? Will your skimmer be in-sump? Seems like 100g would be OK. I am not a fan of giant sumps. I just like to have enough capacity to run things and absorb water from an electrical outage or rare case of exploding skimmer. :D

[Ziggy953]

I've not heard of replacing 1/3 of the sand in a RDSB (how deep exactly is that?) what is the reason there?

[Hop]

How about something like this? this is not to scale.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/02/sumpnoscale.jpg

[Ziggy953]

Wow! That's a heck of a sump/fuge....what's the small section elevated on the right? What were you planning on flow from the fuge into the sump, bulkheads?

[Hop]

It's a little thing I've been planning. It's a box, built like a strainer, that holds the chaeto close to the surface for lighting purposes and keeps the little chunks from going all over the place. There will be a drain right into it on a gate valve to control the flow that enters it. It's similar to the floating basket I had on the last fuge. It's one of those just wait and see projects:)

[jnarowe]

Sand beds make great nutrient sinks and if you cycle out the sand, they can be very beneficial. Not cycling the sand can be very detrimental. The reason is IMO, that the sand eventually reaches its saturation point and cannot bind any more nutrients. Once this happens, the tank starts to suffer, ultimately ending in a crash. Many reefers use DSBs with great success, but they are either compensating in some way or replacing sand periodically.

If you read through various threads on RC about sand beds, and more particularly about TBS tanks, I think you will find a common denominator of tank crashes at about the 2 year +/- mark. That's not to say it's absolute by any means, and each system is different, but I do see a common situation in DSB tanks. Especially DSB tanks that have sand sifting creatures like stars etc.

Just to be frank, I do have an 8" deep RDSB in my system that contains around 400 lbs. of sand, but I cycle the sand out more or less on the schedule I mentioned earlier. I think sand filtration is one of the best methods, but it has to be taken seriously or it can result in catastrophe. The septic system for my house, which can process 750g/day, is essentially a giant sand filter (5 actually) and you can drink the effluent.

[Hop]

Just bringing the desing to this page for discussion:)
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9303080#post9303080 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop
How about something like this? this is not to scale.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/02/sumpnoscale.jpg

[jnarowe]

couple comments Hop:

First, if you have the flow enter from the left, and install a BH down low between the two sections, you won't need the baffles.

Regarding the chaeto box, I don't think it will work. What I think will happen is that if you have flow coming down into the box directly, you will end up with green floss. The chaeto will become filter material, detritus will pile up in it, and it will not get enough light. If you pass the flow into the fuge through a BH or two, have it exit on the far end, and place a PH or some directional pieces of acrylic in the fuge to move the chaeto around, I think you will get a better result.

[Ziggy953]

Thanks Jonathan! I guess that does make sense.....I'm going to be a it ignorant here.....how do you personally "cycle" out your sand? I'm all about the natural filtration method, I don't use chemicals except when i have to (GAC) and like to allow my tank to take care of its self. I also understand that we are talking about a closed system and it does require help to process toxins ect...PWCs and skimming so I'm interested in the sand cycling!!!

[jnarowe]

I, and others, just vacuum it out as we are cleaning our displays, and in the case of a RDSB, I pull it out with a plastic pitcher. Replacing the sand is a bit more dicey. I fill a filter sock with sand, rinse thoroughly, lower into the tank or fuge, and slowly release the sand.

[Ziggy953]

One more 2part question and then I will drop it... a.) What do you do with the sand that you remove? b.) do you use new dry sand or wet cured/LS to replace the sand removed? Thanks again for the info....sorry Hop for hogging the thread!

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9303451#post9303451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
couple comments Hop:

First, if you have the flow enter from the left, and install a BH down low between the two sections, you won't need the baffles.

Regarding the chaeto box, I don't think it will work. What I think will happen is that if you have flow coming down into the box directly, you will end up with green floss. The chaeto will become filter material, detritus will pile up in it, and it will not get enough light. If you pass the flow into the fuge through a BH or two, have it exit on the far end, and place a PH or some directional pieces of acrylic in the fuge to move the chaeto around, I think you will get a better result.

1. K, but with my skimmers and luck, I think I'll need them:) 50% of the drains will go to the right end of the sump, the other 50% will go to the fuge. The left of the drawing is where the 3 pumps will be plumbed externally.

2. The drain will only be used for additional flow, the bulk of the flow is from the movement in the fuge and it's gravity drain process. When I did the floating basket before, the only thing I felt it needed was a little more raw water to flush out the few stagnant areas on the top. Definitely worth playing with though...

Back to hitting the sketch up:D

[jnarowe]

Ziggy953: a) Toss it in the garden. It's great for plants; b) New dry sand only. That's why I only do about 1/3 each time.

Hop: Everybody does it a little differently for sure. I was over at a local reefers house brain-storming on a Ca Reactor install and his system is very different from mine. I pushed him on efficiency and heat issues because he tends to have a lot of pumps in his system.

I always recommend a step back and review of primary reef keeping principles/goals and the impact various pumps and equipment designs will have on a system and the reefkeeper's pocketbook.

Case to consider: I have approximately 1,200g in my system and use 1 Hammerhead, one bite-sized PH in the fuge, and one Eheim 1260 on my Ca Reactor. Most in-display flow comes from 4 Vortechs. I run my system with about a $70/month bump on the electrical bill and that includes running three 1000W MH lamps.

So, when I look at reef system designs, I am always looking at efficiency and heat. I think you have a great opportunity with this re-design to use less power and create less heat. Sometimes we make things more complicated than they need to be, and I am NOT lecturing you in any way, just trying to stimulate you to think about these issues as you build this system. Your 2-section sump/fuge affords some unique opportunities and I know I would spend some serious time (as uou are) mulling over all the different ways it can be configured. Keep in mind versatility too. Like maybe you will want ot use part for frags, or breeding, etc. so you can build it with multiple uses in mind and save yourself a lot of trouble in the future. One of the smartest things I did when I built my system is using two sumps. It works really well, affords me all sorts of flexibility, and eliminates micro bubbles...geez, I am boring myself now! :D

[Ziggy953]

Thanks Jonathan!

[Ziggy953]

BTW....what's with the time stamp on my post...it's not 6:47am here....

[Hop]

I completely agree with you J:

I truly try to balance the simplicity, with the desired outcome, energy efficiency and balance. The way the system is set up, I think of things as three separate systems with the only common tie being the shared water quality.

Right now I'm focusing on the wetroom, which is pretty involved. Basically one pump will feed the 370 gallon tank, one will feed the 180 (although if I build this tank myself it will be 212 gallons) and the last pump will feed the filtration (IE skimmer, carbon and phosphate reactors, Ca reactor, grow out tank, sediment cartridge and an expandable grouping of unlimited other options. This was the only real thinking side of equipment and want to be able to shut any of the three legs down at any time, without effecting the other two.

The real energy thoughts will likely come out when tank is focused on. I'm looking at 3, rather than four MH on a light mover, tunzes, rather than a large CL pump. Etc. it will all make sense when it's close to being up and running:D

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9304061#post9304061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ziggy953
BTW....what's with the time stamp on my post...it's not 6:47am here....

If you click the My RC button up top, go to edit options and scroll down. You can change your time off set in GMT time and have things correlate with your time zone:D

[melev]

Hop, I doubt you'll have a lot of success with the angled ends since you've not had a lot of acrylic building experience thus far. Better to have two rectangles bulkhead'd together.

And I'm going to counter Jonathan's comments about big sumps. I love them and highly recommend going as large as you can handle it. The additional volume they can hold will be handy from time to time. How any floods have we read about in his fishroom so far? ;) Build a big sump that will care for the tank and hold tons of extra water if necessary.

DSB's tend to last 5 years, not 2. If you run it remotely or in the main tank, you still need to seed it and reseed it from time to time. It takes a long time to make it a nutrient sink that will cause issues. My tank has a DSB and is 2.5 years old now. The water parameters are awesome and have been, and you know over a year ago they were all over the place giving me all kinds of grief. Nitrate and PO4 levels were rediculous. The benefit of the remote one is that you can take it offline if you feel the need. You could wash all the sand (bucket after bucket) until it is new and clean, set it up anew and turn it back on while the tank remains unaffected. It'll need good flow, and I'd toss in some bristleworms, cucumbers and nassarius snails. Even a fighting conch or two. Let them help keep the sand healthy, stirred and clean.

Ziggy, glad my site has brought you and your family so much pleasure with this hobby. Just remember later down the road when you start cursing me because of this <i>obsession</i>, I'll be pointing you to the post in this thread. :D

[Ziggy953]

Not to worry Marc.....I was obsessed with this hobby before I ever set up the tank. I have lived near the ocean off and on during my life and have a love for all things aquatic. Not to mention I am a pieces, so I'm crazy about water. Now my wife on the other hand says that I spend too much time on your site reading and rereading. She laughs at me because I usually have at least one of your videos going while I sit at the tank. My son loves watching the "corals in motion" vid. She thinks I'm silly watching them over and over again...Suddenly I feel a bit like a stalker.....eeeekkkkkk

I have a general question....Do you guys sit and stare at your tank for hours at a time? Or am I nuts?

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9304072#post9304072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop
I completely agree with you J:The way the system is set up, I think of things as three separate systems with the only common tie being the shared water quality....

This was the only real thinking side of equipment and want to be able to shut any of the three legs down at any time, without effecting the other two.

The real energy thoughts will likely come out when tank is focused on. I'm looking at 3, rather than four MH on a light mover, tunzes, rather than a large CL pump. Etc. it will all make sense when it's close to being up and running:D

So that all sounds good to me, and I get what you are doing with the 3 return pumps. Consider that with my manifold, I only need one pump though. I also keep a spare pump on hand ready to go if needed. My manifold feeds the display, the fuge, the reactor, and has a couple extra valves stubbed in for future expansion like if I needed a chiller, or want to run a frag tank. I can take any of these out of the loop by simply closing its valve.

Marc: Perhaps I didn't write about sumps correctly. I like big sumps, I just don't put a lot of water in them. I have two 100g sumps side-by-side, and keep about 100g in them. This is so I have plenty of room for catastrophes. I learned that the hard way, but by the same token, in the case of a refugium, I believe most installs are simply too small to be effective in nutrient export. Don't get me wrong, every little bit helps, but to make one a major contributor to water quality, it has to be fairly large.

And regarding sand beds, you just can't put a date on them. As I said before, some people run them with great success, but to say that they last "5 years" is misleading. With you, one might last 5 years. With some reefers they go ten years, but as I have observed from post after post, most do not make it nearly that long. You employ a variety of measures to ensure good water quality as well, so you are "helping" your sand bed. I do too.

How many TBS tanks have we read about crashing within 2 years? Your DSB is 2.5 years now but you have had major issues with your system including a recent wipe-out of your fuge for which you had to completely scrub it out. Right there, with all the phosphate absorbing media, water changes, etc. that you do, you still had a mini crash in your fuge.

Nitrate and PO4 levels were rediculous.

This is exactly what happens with sand beds that are not cycled out. Also, there is no way to "wash" phosphate off sand. Reintroducing that sand back into the system is a big mistake IMO. Phosphate is bound to the sand beyond what washing can remove.

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9304270#post9304270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Hop, I doubt you'll have a lot of success with the angled ends since you've not had a lot of acrylic building experience thus far. Better to have two rectangles bulkhead'd together.

And I'm going to counter Jonathan's comments about big sumps. I love them and highly recommend going as large as you can handle it. The additional volume they can hold will be handy from time to time. How any floods have we read about in his fishroom so far? ;) Build a big sump that will care for the tank and hold tons of extra water if necessary.

DSB's tend to last 5 years, not 2. If you run it remotely or in the main tank, you still need to seed it and reseed it from time to time. It takes a long time to make it a nutrient sink that will cause issues. My tank has a DSB and is 2.5 years old now. The water parameters are awesome and have been, and you know over a year ago they were all over the place giving me all kinds of grief. Nitrate and PO4 levels were rediculous. The benefit of the remote one is that you can take it offline if you feel the need. You could wash all the sand (bucket after bucket) until it is new and clean, set it up anew and turn it back on while the tank remains unaffected. It'll need good flow, and I'd toss in some bristleworms, cucumbers and nassarius snails. Even a fighting conch or two. Let them help keep the sand healthy, stirred and clean.

Ziggy, glad my site has brought you and your family so much pleasure with this hobby. Just remember later down the road when you start cursing me because of this <i>obsession</i>, I'll be pointing you to the post in this thread. :D

Limited on time this morning... But marc, I used to work for a company that built custom enclosures for the rich and famous... Ok maybe rich anyway:) We built a ton of enclosures, although most were out of 1/2 and thicker. I've definitely been around acrylic... Although I joke about my building experiences, being a high school drop out that dropped back in and got a college degree, I spent the first years of my young adulthood in the shop and know my way around:lol: Funny how the things that we used to hate (IE manual labor) come back to be the things we use to relax(IE wood work and skilled craftsmanship).

Thanks for clearing up a few things, there was a lot of brainstorming last night... Made my head hurt, but I think we are on to something. But my thoughts on the sandbed are right in line with yours:) Over all, as stressed in the posts from last night, I'm concerned with balancing the size vs. the total system volume in order for it to make a real positive impact, but think I'm on the right track. I have two options at this point, a really large sump with separate, remote fuge which would necessitate the moving of some equipment and sucking up a lot of space or keeping in line with the original wetroom layout and adjusting the size of the sump and fuge...

I would say that this time next month, it will be a matter of setting the pencil, although a mouse in this case, down and letting the hammer do the talking:lol: OK, more likely a screw gun, saw and router, but you get the idea.

Thanks again, I'll be back around this afternoon or evening and finish up where my thought process is at this point!

Thanks for helping out again!

[Enderrea]

make three and stack them........then you will have plenty of Fuge!
never mind ... i'm not all there today :(

[Cuby2k]

Smooth Hop, very sssmmooooth! :)

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9309027#post9309027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Enderrea
make three and stack them........then you will have plenty of Fuge!
never mind ... i'm not all there today :(

LOL, I'll keep it in mind:)

Cuby2k:??? The sump idea? or??? I'm just throwing things out there and trying to get some feedback:D Funny how much thought can go into something that may or may not be a big deal later... Good thing I have a bit of excedrine migraine in the house:lol:

[Hop]

Well a quick update:

I've still been trying to figure the lighting on this system. I basically decided that PAR is great, but I want my corals to really pop so I can enjoy the tank as well as the photography side. So I'm going to pick up a couple different ballasts and bulbs and see for myself. I'm really leaning toward 2 250 watt Pheonix 14ks driven by PFO HQI ballasts on the ends with an XM or radium 400 watt 20K in the center or 10K on the ends with act supplementation and a 20K in the center... Have a mentioned that I hate lights yet!!!!!

Construction of the wetroom should start this week unless something major happens. I've found the fiberglass sheets I plan on putting over everything for about $13 a sheet which is about half what I originally thought. I've also been playing with measurements and where everything will go. There has been a couple changes from the sketchup plans and I'll explain those later. Most of the acrylic is in and the sizes for everything from the sump, fuge and storage vessels has been finalized.

So hopefully by the end of this week I'll have some photographic evidence of all my brainstorming over the past few months:D

[jnarowe]

Hey, tell us more about the fiberglass sheets!

[purebullet417]

cant wait to see pics

[Hop]

jnarowe: Nothing too exciting about the sheets. They are just 4'X8' sheets similar to what they use in fastfood bathrooms, although I believe that the sheets I found are used in custom shower surrounds. The stuff I found is really smooth, however, instead of textured. The principal is simple; They will be glued over the drywall in the wetroom as well as the headspace above the tank. This way humidity cannot penetrate the drywall anywhere and cleanup will be a snap from any salt spray or other issues that may arise. The idea behind the new set up is that the wetroom and the headspace above the tanks will be completely isolated from the house. Both areas will be vented and exhausted to and from the exterior of the house. This way there are no issues with humidity in the home, exhausting hot/cold air from the homes heating and cooling and should minimize noise in the rest of the house.

purebullet417: Me either:lol: It's driving me nuts not having something half done around here!

[jnarowe]

Aaahhh, like FRP. Got it. I was going to use that in my tank room but when I researched installation methods, I was concerned that it wouldn't really be waterproof. It is not easy to install correctly AND it is quite expensive. You are more handy than I though, so you may be able to install it better.

So I ended up painting my tank room with yacht bilge paint. It is doing the job well. I have had many water issues and everything is fine. In fact it wipes down nicely. It has a bit of an installation issue too, since it is extremely high in VOC.

[Hop]

LOL. I wouldn't say more handy... I'll give some reasons behind the decision over other means later, but the work gods calleth:D

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9505897#post9505897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Aaahhh, like FRP. Got it. I was going to use that in my tank room but when I researched installation methods, I was concerned that it wouldn't really be waterproof. It is not easy to install correctly AND it is quite expensive. You are more handy than I though, so you may be able to install it better.

So I ended up painting my tank room with yacht bilge paint. It is doing the job well. I have had many water issues and everything is fine. In fact it wipes down nicely. It has a bit of an installation issue too, since it is extremely high in VOC.

Ok, work is no fun today and no one's checking over my shoulder so here I am surfing RC:D

To sum up the reasons behind the use of the sheets, rather than a coating is kind of simple and rather narcissistic:D Along with wanting to have a nice, fairly maintenance free tank, I want to make sure that every part of this system is pleasing to look at. So the sheets will be hung and everything will be laminated, giving a finished look to everything. I also want to be able to throw water around and not worry as well as give everything a wipe down with a damp cloth/sponge when needed.

As far as the sealing goes and the potential problems with getting it truly air/water tight; I figure there are two areas to concentrate on. The first is ensuring a proper contact between he sheet and the wall and the second is sealing between the joints of each piece. I think (hope) that as long as care is taken in both these areas, it should give me zero problems down the road:)

This is a pretty accurate depiction of what I envision. Everything will have a finished look, everything will be able to handle a whoops. I've even though about building a slightly elevated floor and putting a drain in that can direct water outside if there are any major spills:)
http://www.plantedtank.net/imagehosting/images/upload/735.jpg

[samson78945]

im tagging along for this one! good luck and make sure you keep us updated!!

[jnarowe]

looks great. on the FRP, it does take some doing but the finished product will be very nice. you have to do a lot of planning too so that you have good joints, sealed penetrations etc. I don't think it makes much of a difference for wiping down, but the bilge paint I used can't take the same kind of abuse that FRP can. Anywhere I have removed screws needs to be patched and re-painted, which is a PITA.

[Hop]

LOL. Well I guess we'll start seeing tomorrow:D Unfortunately I got injured at work and have to wear a brace on my knee, while I take a week off...

So what better time to gut the wetroom, get the panels hung and start building the support structure:lol: I mean duct tape was designed as a knee brace!!!!

[jnarowe]

be careful!

PM sent...

[Randall_James]

no one looking over your shoulder? I would not count on that :) Most company's I setup networks for monitor all (ALL) outbound net traffic..

Want even more fun? fire up a wireless card... rogue connection monitors are also standard equipment

[Enderrea]

Big Brother is Watching.
poor hop, a week off what ever shall you do :P

[Hop]

jnarowe: Can't wait for you to come out this way:D

Randall_James: Oh yeah, they watch us like hawks... But the IT guy gave me access to RC... But I have to make sure it's used wisely:lol:

Enderrea: Well I don't mind a few days off, but I'm 90% certain that the end result will include another knee surgery and crutches, so I'm dreading that aspect again!!!! I have got to work on the wetroom today though.

I have officially started deconstruction. I wish I would have ran fresh water through the drain and return lines though. OMG, where is the guy from dirty jobs when you need him. I wasn't ready for the smell and almost deposited lucky charms in the sump... blththwaaaa

Otherwise I'm just getting the sump, fuge, plumbing, sink and structure out today. Tomorrow we'll get some electrical moved and start getting the sheets hung. Hopefully I'll have time to start getting the support structure in as the shop/garage is quickly running out of room to stack stuff:lol:

[Hop]

Well I got everything out of the wetroom except the sink. I found that there were some areas that were covered in mold and I really doubt it was healthy having that hanging around. My hypothesis is that there was a lot of over overspray and humid mist from using the fans last summer to keep the tank cool, as all the affected areas were exactly toward the direction where the fans were blowing:( Also these areas caused the paper to sperate from the gypsum mix of the wall board sheets.

At anyrate, I got the walls and floors prepped. After another set of hands gets home tonight I'll get the sink out and make the trip up to lowes to grab the walls and floors. If I have time, maybe I'll be able to get the floors installed tonight...

[jnarowe]

I would suggest and extra step, and to spray bleach on the wall board before you seal over it with FRP. Not good lo "lock in" mold!

[Hop]

Already done:) I had to clean the floor for the pseudo tile, so hitting the walls was an easy step:)

I was going to lay a nice tile floor, but decided against it. I don't want to drop something and crack a piece of tile and be stuck with that repair job, so I'm going with a nice and easy, yet appealing stick on vinyl flooring. I'm just caught up between the sponge bob limited edition floor or simulated wood grain:)

JJ, going with a dark tile look:D

[jnarowe]

I went with sexy sealed concrete. :confused:

[Hop]

Well I guess I've been yappin long enough:D Time to actually show that there is some progress going on with this thing!

As I mentioned, I tore the old wetroom apart yesterday. I couldn't believe how everything got so trashed in just sixteen months, but it did!
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/old1.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/old2.jpg

Here you can see the discolored concrete and the mold. This was after the first round of cleanup.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/old3.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/old4.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/old5.jpg

[Hop]

Even the vent fan had gook crammed inside it.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/vent1.jpg


So on with the new; Basically as previously mentioned the entire system will have a finished look. I elected on vinyl tile for the ease of maintenance and if something happens, it can easily be pulled up and replaced for cheap:) The floor was cleaned with acid, scrubbed and dried. Then the tile went down.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon1.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon2.jpg

Next up was the walls. I found some fiberglass shower surround sheets that I applied to the wall with water resistant/hard drying adhesive. Here are the first few sheets.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon3.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon4.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon5.jpg

[Hop]

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon6.jpg

So I think that's it for tonight. I'm taking things slow this time and not working 12 to 16 hour days on the construction... It killed me the last time to the point I was going to work to relax:)

Tomorrow I have to move some electrical boxes that are in the wetroom and have nothing to do with the system and then get the rest of the fiberglass sheets hung. When that is finished, I'll get the sink and cabinets back in and then move into building the support structure where all the sumps and equipment will go.

[jnarowe]

Hey, I don't see a corner joint...aren't you putting one in?

[Hop]

All the joints will be caulked and then an adhesive strip laid over each joint. Every seem will be caulked as well, to include the base boards, roof line, where it butts up to the door etc.

It's definitely still a work in progress:D

[divecj5]

You're the man Hop. I have just been silently following along but thought I'd chime in and let you know what an awesome job you're doing with the wet room. I couldn't imagine myself doing something like that :) Looks great.

That's crazy how moldy and full of gunk everything got in that period of time. This will definitely allow you to "hose" the place down and get it all nice and clean....when you want that is.

Great job Hop and keep it up.

[Hop]

divecj5: Thank you. I hope it works the way I'm planning. There is so much info in my head right now, I'm looking forward to getting the construction done so that I can focus on the tanks and the working of equipment. I know a lot of people put it all on paper and have it all figured before the construction starts, but that's just not me:) My brain seems to work better when the equipment is laid out and I actually start piecing it together.

Right now I know where all the sumps, pumps and top offs are going, I know how the fuge is going to be laid out, but I'm not 100% sure where the phos-reactor, switch panels, Ca and kalk reactors will be going... So once this step is done, it will really finalize everything:)

It's funny, while I'm working I think about where everything will go and then get a headache when I start thinking about lights again:)

I got to thinking yesterday and decided that the mold was definitely caused by the constant spray from the fans cooling the tank. Every where else looked good. Hopefully there won't be any spray this time as the temp of the room will be controlled by AC and venting. And if after it's up and running it is still too hot, I'll bite the bullet and pick up a chiller. It's going to be done right this time... I hope:D

[Hop]

Well I got the first round of sheets hung all the way around the room (8' high anyway). Still have the last foot, plus the ceiling to do, but that project wont get done until after all the lights are hung and the ventilation ran. I also got most of the initial caulking done around the sheets, but ran out of caulk.

Moving the non-essential electrical out of the room took more time than I wanted, but it's done. And the sink is back in for now (I'll have to remove it when I run the plumbing and then when it goes back in, it will be secured to the wall and caulked in place).

So over the next few days, I'll get the RO/DI back in as well as the cabinet. Then it will be on to building the support structure to hold everything:)

If the weather holds jnarowe will be swinging by tomorrow and if he's up to it, we'll discuss the plan and see if I missed anything obvious or if he has any ideas on anything. Should be fun!

No pictures tonight, it's hard to get the camera to focus on glossy white walls:D

[gkarshens]

Make sure you have some good micro brews ready for Jonathan! :D

[Machiavelli]

So, out of curiosity, what was so bad about the vermetid snails, other than their prolific mucousy nature?

[Hop]

I guess you might have missed the previous thread:) I had leterally tens or hundrends of thousands of them and they were not slowing down. When they shot their webs out, it litterally covered some of the rocks and they were killing my corals.

Without going into too much detail, here is the trouble from the previous thread before the tank was taken down.

previous thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=872046&perpage=25&pagenumber=13)

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9547085#post9547085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gkarshens
Make sure you have some good micro brews ready for Jonathan! :D

LOL. I'll see what I can drum up!

[Enderrea]

jonathan is a hoot! if you think he is funny in the thread, he's funnier in person....... thats not counting his looks ether BAAAHAAAHAAA

[Hop]

:D up until today the only pic I had seen of him was with the Reef Central thong on his head:lol:

Great guy, I could have spent days just shooting the proverbial fertilizer with him. On the plus side, I think that with his help, I finally decided on lighting for the tank:) Unfortunately he had to leave pretty early, but it was few hours well spent!

[Hop]

I finished up caulking the lower seams tonight. The room should now hold water:D But I'm hoping on not testing that theory! Still have a couple seems to caulk on the upper portion, but I'm using a different caulk for that. Then I'll place a adhesive seem. similar to weather stripping over each joint.

Spent tonight getting the RO/DI and cabinet mounted again. I also mounted a fire extinguisher, although I hope that I never need to use that either! I'll get the cabinet paint touched up tomorrow along with the wood I used to mount the RO/DI. After I get that done it will be time to start building the support structure and this room should start to take shape:)
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon7.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon8.jpg

[Cuby2k]

Nice work Hop, I love the wall panels. Great solution for a nasty problem. I'm keeping track from the background here and glad to see the progress.

[melev]

Looks nice and clean like a hospital room. :)

[maxxII]

Looks good Hop! Hope the leg is okay...

Nick

[Hop]

Cuby2k: Thanks. It's definitely going to go in surges, with long pauses of nothing. After this phase is complete, it will likely slow down. Next up will likely be the plumbing, then building of the sumps and holding vessels. Then there will likely be a long pause while the equipment is purchased. At some point I'll get the construction above the tank done.

melev: Yeah, but I'll tell you that I was planning supplemental lighting in the tank room, over the sink etc, but the light reflects so well I'm not certain I'm going to need any:)

maxxII: Thanks, we'll see on the knee. It's more of a stability issue and a place where in binds. So after I make it to the orthopedic surgeon, I'll know more.


I asked this question in the lighting thread, but so far I have yet to really get the question answered. I've been plugging bulb and ballast combos in Sanjay’s site, but what I have yet to find is; What is the minimum par recommendation to grow SPS at a depth of 30"? Any one have any ideas? Would 90, 100, 110 be a good range to shoot for? Obviously more is better, but what is the minimum.

I'm trying to shoot for having VHOs come on for about an hour, MH come on one at a time and the VHOs go off. The MH runs for 6-9 hours and then the VHO comes back on as the MH shut off. Then I would run the VHO for the remainder of the period until they shut off. So I've been trying to find a bulb/ballast combo I like that has the par and color for the low-lying SPS without supplemental lighting:)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[maxxII]

Hop, I dont have a hard fast number for you....
Ive seen tanks that deep lit only by VHO's and they are growing SPS, clams, anemone's and lots of other stony corals...but he's using about 6 kabillion VHO's and they're mounted pretty much on the water's surface.

I've seen photo's of SPS that were grown using only NO flourescents, and they look healthy.

Personally, I like the look of the 10K bulbs. The 14K's are great too and if I were running De bulbs again, I would definately go with Phoenix 14K's. They are alleged by everyone who has used them to have close to the PAR value of AB10K's, and the look of the Hamilton 14K's.

You can acros with all kinds of lights, but the growth rate will be tied to how intense the light is...

Basically, what I'm saying is....you're gonna get growth no matter what MH bulbs you use. How much is tied to the PAR value you go with. For a baseline comparison, check out the PAR values on the XM10K and the Iwasaki 6500. Those two bulbs have the highest PAR values of any of the 250 watt bulb choices. Remember, Sanjay's site information is based on bulb only, w/o reflector, and w/o safety UV glass in the case of the DE's....(unless his site says other wise). So adding a reflector will increase PAR values, adding glass will decrease PAR values...

Nick

[Hop]

Thanks for the reply Max. You know before I was running XM 10K 175 watt MH. The color after about 2 months turned more yellow than I liked, even with actinic supplementation. In addition the par was only about 62 and even lower light corals didn't seem to like the lower portion of the tank.

I like the looks of the Pheonix 250 watt 14Ks, but with a par of about 88, I worry whether that would be enough for good or even moderate growth at 30ish inches. Then the 400 watt 14K Hammys running an Icecap ballast is even lower than that with a par of 80, but I can overdrive them with an HQI ballast and touch a par of about 140, but then the cost of replacing bulbs could really negate the idea of cost savings over the previous set up. Plus, the color of the 14Ks may only touch the spectrum I envision and might need the additional supplementation during the entire lighting period to give the corals the pop I envision.

Finally I leaned toward 20K bulbs, which I could run on an icecap ballast and hover in the 90-100 par range, or over drive them with an HQI ballast and hit the 110-130 range depending upon the bulb.

So this is why I have such a huge friggin headache:) I want decent growth at all levels, with the corals really popping:confused:

[melev]

Maybe you can figure out what my lighting equals, since my tank is 30" tall. I know I've never gone to the trouble you have.

[Hop]

Melev: Honestly I like the looks of your tank. Your lighting has been thought about a lot. So far the only other tank I like more is a 8' tank with 4 250 watt Pheonix 14Ks over it. The owner of that tank said he only wishes he could slap one more over the top:)

Even with that said, it's sometimes, or most of the time, hard to really depict the true color over the net. The other thing I keep asking myself is; If Melev, Weast and others could do it all over again, would they change anything? If Melev could get more par, would he?:lol: Maybe I'm being over critical, but this is one area I don't want to miss on:)

[Hop]

Figures I added one image too many to my post and lost the friggin novel I typed:mad: I'll try to remember everything I typed before...

Let's see what did I type...

The project for the day took way longer than I thought and only got the first level of the support structure built. To top it off, the flush cut or laminate trimming bit lost part of it's bearing while I was cutting and caused some cosmetic blemishes that I'll have to repair first thing in the morning. Unfortunately, the bearing still rolled smoothly and I didn't notice the malfunction until it was too late:mad:

Before I get on to the pics, when jnarowe was over yesterday the topic of the size of the wetroom came up. It is a small wetroom and when I began brainstorming for the new build, it was discussed with the wife and seriously considered to build or purchase a premade building to put on the side of the house, directly behind the tank to house all the equipment. The cost of the building aside, we elected not to for the simple reason of the added cost to heat, cool and vent a large amount of square footage. The current wetroom is small (10'X5" with a 9' ceiling), however, I have one of those "need to eat fatty foods and ice cream guys" to have a half way normal build:) So maneuvering around in the wetroom isn't all that bad. So far the only hangup on the size of the wetroom is getting a 4'X8" sheet of wood into it:lol:

So one with todays work. First up was to build the structure. This was a total pain due to the "step" created along the wall from the houses foundation. After a little tinkering (OK a lot of tinkering and thought) I got the framing done. Sorry this first pic is blurry, but it's the only one I took:
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon9.jpg

Next up was the subfloor:
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon10.jpg

Then I was able to get the laminate glued on and trimmed. This is where you can see the cosmetic blem from the router bit. First thing tomorrow I'll rip that sheet off and replace it with new stuff:mad:
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon12.jpg

[Hop]

You can see on the inside corner of the structure that there is no laminate. This is where the laminated support beam will be located when the second level is added:
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon13.jpg

Last up is just a view toward the sink. I still have some trimming to do here, but after the router bit took a dump, I decided to pack it up for the night. When the second level is completed, it will butt up and make a sort of "undermount sink" so any water spilled on the work bench section can just be squeegeed off into the sink:
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon15.jpg

So that's about it for tonight. I'm hoping on getting the second level completed tomorrow. I got permission to go dumpster diving at a new subdivision close to here. I'm pretty sure by the looks of what there throwing away, I won't have to buy any additional lumber for this build:)

[Toddrtrex]

Hey hop, not sure if you still have 175 watt ballasts laying around, but.
I really love my Iwasaki 14k 175s. They have more par than a lot of 250s. I know the exact #s are on Sanjay's site.

Granted my tank is WAY smaller, but here is a shot of my 58 with those
lights. I run two, but in this shot the right one had just shot off for the night. I am also running 2 96 watt PC -- one blue the other actinic.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/58FTS.jpg

[Hop]

Thanks for the suggestion Toddrtrex: Looks like the numbers are pretty consistent with the 175 watt 10K XMs I was running. I like the looks of your tank!

[Toddrtrex]

Thanks, it taken a while to get that tank right. :)

I had the XMs before, and in person there is a huge difference, and the color doesn't seem to shift as much.

[melev]

That is a very pretty tank, Toddrtrex.

Hop, I really don't have any plans for anything different lighting-wise, except maybe to buy the more expensive reflectors. For me, electricity consumption is something I think about a lot, and adding another light bulb over my 6' tank seems unnecessary.

[tony13]

Sorry to hijack. Toddrtrex where did you get the Iwasaki 14k's from? I'm looking for a new lamp for the frag tank and they sound perfect. Thanks.

[hypermikie]

Tony, Premium Aquatics carries them!

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9564315#post9564315 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hypermikie
Tony, Premium Aquatics carries them!

Exactly. That is where I've always gotten them from.

[Hop]

Crap... I've been so busy over the past few days, I just woke up, plugged around for a while and found out about Weast's tank:( That really is terrible.

Trying to decide whether I'm going to work on the tank or laundry today:)

[JGross4]

Tank! Tank! Tank! :D

[Hop]

Well after going to the closet this morning, my decision was made for me:) Hopefully I'll have some time to work on the tank this afternoon. It will give me time to relax and focus after the router bit episode yesterday:)

[Hop]

I got the workbench level of the structure built in a few hours. I'm going to relax a little and maybe clean up the shop a bit, but I'm spent for now. I''ve got to get to the lumber store for some parts, so this is a good stopping point before I start wrapping everything in laminate. And no, not all the supports are in yet:)

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon16.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon17.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon18.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon19.jpg

[melev]

It's looking good so far. That corner outlet looks very close to being in the way of the (coming soon) counter top.

[Hop]

Don't be fooled... There is no trick photography:) It really is just about to be in the way:) I cut too many corners when building the wetroom almost two years ago and trusted a tape measure and the floor. So it's about 1/2" lower than the other 2 outlets. Unfortunately I didn't notice until I was getting everything level and square for this build. I actually had to drop the counter height a tad to make up for it. The subflooring will fit perfectly under the outlet, but the laminate is going to hit it. Good thing this area where the plugs is located will be completely sealed to house the electrical:) It will hopefully make sense when I get the next couple levels built:)

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9563471#post9563471 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
That is a very pretty tank, Toddrtrex.

Hop, I really don't have any plans for anything different lighting-wise, except maybe to buy the more expensive reflectors. For me, electricity consumption is something I think about a lot, and adding another light bulb over my 6' tank seems unnecessary.

Well I'm definitely going with the pricey reflectors:) The other issue with the lighting choice is I'm trying to light 8' of tank with 3 MH... I finally got an answer that a par of 90 and above should be a good starting point, so that really helped. I'm sure I'll swing back and forth a few more times before the cash is thrown down:)

I mean just when I had flow figured out tonight I thought it would be nice to run a small closed loop in addition to the return and tunzes that is plumbed in and under the rocks to blow debris out from under the rocks so that it can be skimmed more efficiently. After running a tape and surfing the net, it's still a possibility:lol:

[Hop]

Well I got the work bench level all wrapped tonight:) So far it's coming out as I envisioned it for the most part. Basically so far I've done a lot of work to hold my skimmer:lol:. I would post pics, but the shop is so dirty from five days of work, that I need to get it cleaned up.

I'll try to update the thread after 3am or when I wake up tomorrow.

[LarryW]

very nice... Just tagging along. I'm in the process of building my laundry room/fish room out as well....

[Hop]

Welcome aboard LarryW... I've been following your thread:) Really nice build.

[Hop]

Just a few pics of the workbench area completed... Sort of. I know I still have some touch up to do here and there, but until everything is built and wrapped, I'm not going to worry about it. Better to touch everything up once than over and over:) I also moved the skimmer in, if for anything else my own amusement. Makes it feel like I've accomplished something!

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon20.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon21.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon22.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon23.jpg

Next up will be to complete the shelves that the RO/DI and SW storage vessels will go. After that I've been contemplating switching up where the electrical control panel and the Neptune AC unit will go. I'm thinking about building a shelf with the control heads built in right about eye level. Two things happen. 1. The electric is way above where the water is and 2. I get some additional storage in the room...

[LarryW]

Thanks, it's getting there.... :D

what are you going to use to store your water? I was thinking about using a 35g bulk water tank for my RODI, and a 44g brute to mix SW....

[Hop]

I'm building 75 gallon acrylic tanks:) The RO/DI storage vessel will just have a float valve and plumbed into the SW storage below. The SW storage will have an externally plumbed eheim, affixed like a recirc skimmer. This build will certainly bring out the tech/equipment geek side of me.

[melev]

I still think you'll want to relocate that prop tank. The corner is going to be very tight. Looking forward to the next update.

Btw, it looks like that counter top is floating. You've done a nice job hiding the construction, so I can't tell how strong it is. What happens when that skimmer is full of water? ;) Are you still adding more uprights to that end?

[Hop]

The design has changed a bit from the drawing, so there is definitely some changes. The prop tank will now take up a section of the work bench, but still leaving enough room to get some fragging/gluing and repairs done. Rather than making a whole new drawing on sketchup, hopefully it will make sense as things come together. In addition to the reach issue, I had to work around the electrical, which was not planned for in the drawings. Basically I'm working around the premiss that if the RO/DI or SW storage had a catastrophic failure and I was standing in the room, I would be completely safe from the electrical aspect:)

As far as the support goes, it's definitely over engineered. Everything is tied to the studs right now and held three of us last night while trimming and cutting:) There are additional supports planned, but each needs to be wrapped in the sheeting before going in. Also some of the supports will have to go in after the sump and fuge are in and plumbed and will be removable to that nothing becomes landlocked(for lack of a better term).

There is still a ton of work to do in this room. I still have a few levels to build and wrap, then build the electrical holding area that will be completely watertight. All of the plumbing through the bench will be through bulkheads to keep any spilled water from going down in between the laminate and the wood. I'm still debating about running all the electrical cords through PVC for a clean look or wether I'm going to build channels for everything to be ran inside of...

[Hop]

Oh melev, I couldn't tell if the skimmer question was about the weight when full or what I'm going to do about if the cup overflows.

It will definitely hold the weight of the skimmer and for the collection aspect... The cup drain will go to an acrylic waste collector. In the event that that overflows, it will then allow everything to go back to the sump. This way if the skimmer goes nuts and I'm gone, I won't have a massive flood:)

[melev]

Sounds good to me. :)

[douglaslindsey]

Hello Hop. I'm enjoying fallowing your thread. Just a question for you, who makes that skimmer of yours? It looks similar to a Deltec or a Euro Reef. Thanks....

[Hop]

douglaslindsey: Thanks for following along! The skimmer is a GEO Professional Series. It's based on the 846 series, but 2" taller:)

[Mojo Jojo]

Just finished reading everything. The set-up is looking pretty sweet. Hope it all comes out the way you plan on. :D

[jnarowe]

Hey guys...I am back in action and posted to Hop's nano thread (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1021607&goto=newpost) by accident.

As far as micro brews go...Hop and I didn't embibe. It was about a two hour drive on mountain roads and I didn't have the brain "bucks" to be messing with beer.

And to my dear friend James: BITE ME! :lol:

Wow! You have gotten a lot of work done and a couple of my comments in the nano thread are mute at this point. During my visit I wasn't at full brain power unfortunately but I really enjoyed BS'ing with you.

I am concerned about water getting under the bottom deck either behind next to the wall or from the floor in front. My guess is that you will heavily caulk those joints. That is one sweet skimmer and let me know if you want any info. on modding it.

You are doing a great job on the stands. It really looks nice. You can pick up wall plate gaskets at HD too to help keep water out of your electrical boxes. I actually foamed around mine and used gaskets on all the house in-wall mounted ones, and used waterproof outdoor top-mount PVC boxes with water-tight flexible conduit for tank room power.

So did you add the fire extinguisher after we talked about my tank room mishap???

[Enderrea]

ROFLMAO!
I was wondering when you would be commentying on that one.
Hop! looken good man!

[Hop]

One day I'll learn my lesson. I just posted a huge reply and when I hit submit, I lost it:(

So janarowe, thanks for visiting, I really enjoyed it! I'll repost the answers and responses to both threads later. I had a long night and little sleep and my brain is dead today:)

joeyjoeq: Thanks, welcome aboard!

Enderrea :lol: Thank you.

[jnarowe]

yeah I hate that. What I have started doing is copying long replies to the clipboard before hitting the button!

[Hop]

That exactly what I normally do, but forgot and lost it... Stupid, stupid...

[jnarowe]

I find the best way to resolve that is to bang my head on my tank.

[Enderrea]

haaahaaa i have a steel frame on my tank.... just bash your head on that a few times and every thing becomes much clearer...in the morning.

[Hop]

Let's see if I can do it this time without deleting my response:

So here is the mis-posted post:)
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9591047#post9591047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Hey Hop! I am finally back in Poulsbo...long trip...

I really enjoyed visiting you and believe me, I needed a break from Keystone Ranch. :rolleyes:

For all your fans I have to comment on various issues as follows:

First of all, I really commend you for undertaking tank projects being so far from any sort of decent supplier. It is about 100 Miles to a regular LFS and we all know you can only go so far with the PetCo you have in town. And may I add that I gotta love a town with a "Winchester Motel"?? What a cool place...

Based on the space you have to work with, I can honestly say the HOPSTER is a serious reef nut! :D The timing of my visit was a bit off since your big system was completely dismantled, but I really admire your ability to cut losses and re-do it. Of course, there was no way I would NOT come visit and yours was the only tank related visit I had while on my trip. I just wished we had worked through more issues...we got so caught up in BS'ing about different stuff that I don't think I gave you much help.

Anyway, I am really interested to see how you combine the two tanks and have everything meet in the equipment room. I think it will be a stellar set up when you get it back up and running.

Your remaining livestock all looked great and I did get that pang of jealosy when checking out your Naso. It is a beautiful specimen!

I really do want to encourage you to check out 400W Ushio 20K SE lamps as I think your main display would greatly benefit. You could use T5s on your wife's FOWLR and save energy across the board.

I also thought, while driving back, that you could employ Vortechs on the right end of the main display and decrease your plumbing and electrical requirements. They are very powerful and you could arrange the tank with LPS etc. on the left end and SPS on the right end. Then you could concentrate the 4-way in exactly the right places if you still think you need it. I realize that Vortechs are expensive, but they pay for themselves through electrical savings fairly quickly. I am NOT a fan of the Loc-Line system because I don't like the flow or the salt creep.

I am concerned as I am sure you are, that the wall system you have installed in tthe equipment room may not stay up. It had come loose in a couple places and I would recommend using high quality SS screws and finishing washers like these:

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/online/Assets/catalog/268/15991_268_7604B_WPM.jpg

You may also be able to find the washers in plastic as I am certain I have sold them before through my store. As you install the screws, I would apply silicone around the screw and under the washer. BTW, I would only use 316 SS or better. Regular SS like you get at HD or most marine stores is only 18-8 and it does not stand up to SW corrosion. You can get the 316 from a variety of sources like Fastenal. They are NOT cheap but the result is far better than using 18-8.

The corners are another hurdle to be dealt with as I am not convinced the joints will stay sealed. I guess about all you can do is use a top-quality silicone adhesive/sealant. You may also be able to apply edge and joint pieces like what are made for FRP. These would essentially be thin plastic inside corners and strips that could be glued to the joints with a good silicone adhesive.

As far as ventillation goes I think you have already learned that lesson! :) The only sticking point I think will be allowing cold air direct access to the tanks during the Winter season. I guess vent baffles will help but that is an issue you should put some though into. I do think you have a good direction in your desire to "seal" off the tanks from the house and reduce moisture, but after spending a few days in your area, I would think the ambient air is dry enough that you shouldn't have to go crazy to get a good result.

During my ride home and subsequent battles with my sinuses, I did wonder how the altitude may affect your tanks, like maybe the ORP would be different, or pH would swing more or less?

Well that's enough for now...I am very eager to watch your re-build and help wherever I can. Don't forget that I deal in marine products and may be able to source stuff for you at good prices. In particular I think marine grade 12V bilge exhaust fans may make your life easier.

Thanks for the fun visit! :D

First off, thanks for coming down! It was nice to actually share some info with someone else in the hobby and reassure me that I'm not completely crazy... Yet!

Thanks for the comment on the livestock! I just try to keep them fat, happy and quiet!

I haven't even thought about lighting the wife's tank yet... I have the PC hood right now that I may use and then upgrade to a more cost efficient means later. As mentioned it's going to be FOWLR, so lighting it is not at the top of the to do list yet.

As far as the main tank, I'm pretty set on 400 watters now. The initial cost of them is not that much more than 250s. It's the cost of replacing something once you already have the wrong stuff that get expensive...

As far as the flow, I'm pretty set on the 4 tunzes with the return plumbed on the 4-way. The only thing that popped up since you left was I spent some time on weast's site after hearing of his crash. I really like the flow through the rocks to clear out the crud and I thought about a eheim pump on a closed loop. This pump would be on a timer, connected to a spraybar set up to blow crud out from the rocks maybe 3-4 hours twice a day. But it was just thought about, no serious plans yet.

I'll likely pick up some of the screws and washers you mentioned. I really neat thing happened over the weekend... The adhesive set up and the wall panels are really stuck on:) I only have that one corner, but I re-did it and then caulked the snot out of it:) I have some other ideas if something begins to pop up, but I really think I got the right materials to hold those sheets down. Plus the addition of the support structure really pulled them into the wall while the adhesive cured.

The ventilation I think is going to work fairly well. The biggest issue will be the induction of cold air in the winter which could negate the heating/cooling of the tank. I'm hoping that with the cooler temps, the humidity will be less, therefor the time the ventilation is on will be reduced and the cold air issue will be a minor problem. I guess we'll have to see on this one, but I think the rest of the ventilation plan is on track and should work perfectly. I hope!

I'm not sure sure on the effects of the altitude. I know mountainreef has a decent set up and he's about 1200 feet higher than I am. Might make for an interesting study... But I would have to travel to warmer climate for a control sample:lol:

Thanks for the help, I'm sure I'm going to need some more as the build goes on! Right now I've got a nice direction to head, but I'm sure a couple more hurdles will present themselves soon!

I'm sure I left a bunch out since the lost post, but it's all my head can do right now!!!

[jnarowe]

Also when you install the cabinets and upper shelving that may be more than enough to keep the sheets in place.

As far as I am concerned, 400W lamps really are the minimum for any 30" deep tank with SPS. You will not be disappointed.

You know I have a 7'+ long spray bar along the back of my tank at the bottom and it blows under my rocks 24/7. You could also connect one leg of the 4-way to a spray bar and simplify your plumbing a bit.

I would check out those Tunze rocks carefully. They sound like a good idea but you will have to figure out how to hide the cords etc. and they may be simple enough that you could build them yourself. You could also just mount pipes in the same manner.

Since you have been checking out Steve Weast's tank, take a close look at how he circulates water...no Tunzes I can tell you that. I am not happy with my first Tunze purchase as I already told you.

For your wife's tank. You can probably rig something out of what you already have. Your old planted tank lighting fixtures would probably be fine. If you dedide to build new, I would recommend T5 or overdriven NO T12. T5 lighting is getting fairly cheap and I can give you some recommendations on that, and I built my 48" fuge lamp with DIY parts and Ice Cap end caps and a 660 ballast. It rocks! It will go through lamps faster but they are very cheap to replace.

[Hop]

Also when you install the cabinets and upper shelving that may be more than enough to keep the sheets in place.

I think so, but everything really cured nicely.

As far as I am concerned, 400W lamps really are the minimum for any 30" deep tank with SPS. You will not be disappointed.

Yup, now it's just color temp decisions. I'm going to order the ballasts and reflectors and go with a couple different bulbs when the time comes and see which ones I like.

You know I have a 7'+ long spray bar along the back of my tank at the bottom and it blows under my rocks 24/7. You could also connect one leg of the 4-way to a spray bar and simplify your plumbing a bit.

I thought about that, but I'm concerned that even with a syphon break, the small possibility of disaster could loom, with the potential for Murphy to completely drain the tank:lol: That's why I was thinking of the low watt, closed loop since the tank is already drilled. Still something to think about when the plumbing phase comes.

Since you have been checking out Steve Weast's tank, take a close look at how he circulates water...no Tunzes I can tell you that. I am not happy with my first Tunze purchase as I already told you.

I love the way his tank is plumbed, but the electricity consumed with that type of set up goes against my mission on this build:)

For your wife's tank. You can probably rig something out of what you already have. Your old planted tank lighting fixtures would probably be fine. If you decide to build new, I would recommend T5 or overdriven NO T12. T5 lighting is getting fairly cheap and I can give you some recommendations on that, and I built my 48" fuge lamp with DIY parts and Ice Cap end caps and a 660 ballast. It rocks! It will go through lamps faster but they are very cheap to replace.

My plan is to get the 370 up and running and then sit down with her and have her come up with a basic livestock list. From there we'll go onto the habitat required and plan the tank around that. I'm guessing that her tank won't be plumbed in for six month or longer after the system is up and running. But who knows, once we get rolling, it may come on line faster than that.

[jnarowe]

man I wish you could see my tank lit only with 20K lamps! I know it would help you make your decision. :)

[maxxII]

Uhh..hello, pics?????

BTW,
Here is a link to photo's of JBNY's old 180 w/ different bulbs over it.

These photo's were taken by JBNY, but the site is arranged by another guy who went to a fair amount of trouble to set them up side by side so you can see two different bulbs over the same section of JBNY's reef. Neat set up IMO...might take a few seconds to load...

http://chrismorris.ca/250wcolour/

Nick

[jnarowe]

good link Nick. I remember seeing that before. If I were to guess, my system looks somewhere in between the CoralVue 20K and the XM 20K, but the intensity is much greater.

[Hop]

That is a cool link:)

[Enderrea]

http://www.mjmurphy.co.nz/

check this out ! under sea restaurant! now you don't need a tank :)

[jnarowe]

I don't think I could eat in that thing.

[Hop]

Now see, that would be a great living room:) Just needs a an HD, pool table and a bachelor fridge and I would never leave!

[Hop]

Vermetid update:

Just to quickly update, even though it's bearing on the progression of the build is pretty much useless at this point... I noted a few weeks ago that my large zebra hermit had been breaking a few of the vermetid tubes here and there in the 125, but I really wasn't paying attention. Tonight I started plucking around and noted that at least 1/3 of the vermetids seem to be disappearing from the tank and most of the remaining tubes are broke off above the base.

Although there are still thousands of them, I wonder if the control of these suckers is possible:)

[jnarowe]

And I just noticed one of my MI electric blue hermits has grown to about the size of a large Mexican Turbo...maybe it's keeping my vermetids in check??

[Hop]

It's possible:)

I was just thinking that maybe I would fill my 100 gallon rubbermaid container, throw a piece of my current live rock in it, after I clean it of vermetids the best I can, with the few hundred pounds of now base rock I have sitting around, a powerhead, skimmer, heater and small light and start seeding the base rock. In a month or so, I could add a couple hermits and let everything cook until the new tank is up...

Sure would cut the cycling time down on the new tank...

[jnarowe]

I think it's a good idea as long as you can be sure of temp. and salinity control. You will still have to do small water changes occassionally and remove detritus, but there definitely would be a benefit IMO. The problem is where to put it. You could also set up the big tank in the same manner and just tarp it when you need to work on it.

[Hop]

Yeah, I could put it in the bedroom:lol:

I don't think the big tank would work... I still have to clean it out and buff out the scratches. Plus I may wind up drilling a couple more holes in it and then experiment with the plumbing.

I was going to work on the wetroom or clean the tank up today, but I was too tired. Got the OK to go back to work last week with a knee brace and duct tape until I see the orthopedic, so I was working the 6pm to 6am shift and got up too early today. So tomorrow I'll decide whether I'm going to work in the wetroom or clean the tank out.

[Hop]

Well I slept in today and got a really late start on the wetroom. I guess that was OK though as I ran out of some materials and had to call it quits for the day anyways:)

The room is definitely starting to take shape now. These pics are pretty ugly, but this is just a rough in and nothing is wrapped yet. I decided to get the rest of the stuff built and then come back and wrap it at the end. After that I'll get everything painted.

So essentially today was a figuring day. First I figured exactly where the RO/DI and SW mixing vessels will go. After that I figured the electrical and where the grow out tank will go.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon24.jpg
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon25.jpg

Essentially I wanted the electrical up and out of the way, which was accomplished. While doing this I decided on the exact position of the grow out tank and elected to build the side to keep light from the MH out of the SW storage tank. So after deciding the size of the inside of the shelf for the electrical, the DJ powerstrips went in.

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon26.jpg
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon27.jpg

And a final shot of where I ended today. Understand that everything will look a lot different when everything is wrapped.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/03/newcon28.jpg

The lowest section under the water storage will be sealed off from sight with and inspection plate. It will hold various electrical components not needed to be switched on and off manually. Basically everything ran from the Neptune with the DC-8s.

The next level up with be the SW mixing tank which will be plumbed with valves so that when doing water changes or filling with RO/DI, it's just a matter of turning some valves. It will also have a Eheim 1250 plumbed externally.

The top level will be where the RO/DI storage will be. This tank will simply be plumbed to the lower tank as mentioned above and be fed via a float valve. I'll likely also run a separate line to someplace to access RO/DI for other needs when they arise.

The electrical shelf is simple enough. It has a 5" inner height and 12" depth for cords etc. All electrical will be plumbed into this via PVC. It will make sense later:) The control head for the Neptune will also be placed here, but I have not decided which one I'm going with yet. I do like the new black faces though, they look sharp!

So all and all, the construction is almost done. A few more things here and there and then wrap everything and do some touch up. After that it will be time to start plumbing and running electrical:)

[melev]

I love it! As long as everything is sealed (like an aquarium that won't leak), the wood should last a very long time. Personally, I prefer plywood over MDF/particle board because even wet it tends to hold up longer.

[Hop]

In "theory" it should be sealed pretty well and hopefully I don't have any oops moments that cause me to test the "theory":D

[Hop]

I forgot to mention that I also got a retro canopy made for the MH that will sit above the frag tank. I have to make a trip to the hardware store though so I can see what will work so that I can slide it away from the top of the frag tank. I have only a few inches to work with, so I'm going to look into drawer sliders. Not sure that will work though as I need to suspend it from the top. Maybe some small rollers on a channel of some type?

[gig]

Great stuff Hop! looking good! and tagging along...:)

[jnarowe]

very nice work Hop! Are you going to conceal the screw heads?

[Hop]

Thanks gig!

janarowe: Yup they will be concealed on the front and bottom. The top will be accessible in order to run the electrical. None of the screws are counter sunk yet either, which they will need to be before the wood is wrapped.

[jnarowe]

OK...so the area around the DJ powerstrips isn't wrapped yet? Or you want front access?

If it is wrapped and you do want front access, there are little buttons you can press into the screw head to cover them up.

Nice design...can't wait for the finished product.

[Hop]

None of the new stuff is wrapped yet. Some of the wood I had lying around had a coat of paint on it, and kind of throws the appearance off.

I don't think I'll need front access as I can get my skinny little hand inside the holes with the powerstrips removed. Along with having the top removable in order to fish wires through the pipe, I hope it will work smoothly:)

Maybe today I'll get the shop cleaned up and build the frag tank...

[Hop]

I got the shop cleaned up and started building the frag tank. It's about 70% done(but now the shop is dirty again:lol: ). I still need to insert the overflow weir, the assorted steps inside to hold the frags at different heights, glue the top on, route the edges and then buff them out.

But here it is, essentially where it will go. It's 24" wide, 16"tall and 18" deep. I didn't think I needed to go too big with this as my plan is to basically grow everything out in the display.
http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/04/newcon29.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/04/newcon30.jpg

[jnarowe]

interesting you built it as a cube. How high will you fill it? If I was building a frag tanmk I would make it fairly shallow and use T5 lighting.

[Hop]

It's going to have a 10K 175 watt MH over the top of it for now. Maybe I'll run a 6500K later. I thought this depth would be ideal for a few reasons. First, there will be three tiers stepping up in the tank so that things can be moved around and adjusted accordingly. Second, rather than blasting 1200 GPH through the overflow, I'll be running about 300gph through the overflow and the rest of the flow will be made up with either a MJmod or a korilla. I thought this extra depth would give me more options down the road...

Finally, my need for a growout tank is pretty limited right now. Who knows, a couple years down the road when the tank matures, the need may change and then, I'll modify it to suit those needs. So my last thought on this tank was that it makes a nice refuge for anything that might need to get moved out of the display for what ever reason but not in need of a separate quarantine. Plopping something into the sump would be difficult to retrieve as there are going to be some spots I'll have to reach with some specialized or home made tools.

I did hit the grow out tank with the router, got the top rim on and the overflow in place, but I'm calling it a night now... Have to work in the morning, so I'm going to relax in front of planted earth and RC:D

[Hop]

Here are two shots of the stopping point tonight... Overflow is in and the edges are flush:

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/04/newcon31.jpg

http://www.hopsreef.com/pictures/07/04/newcon32.jpg