Please review my "System Plan".

[Tripspike]

I have begun plans for two new tanks in the house, a 95 wave and a custom 65 in wall. Take a look at the flow schematic. Is there anything I am missing. Are there any suggestions? Do the gallonages of the various tanks look good?

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/Spiketrip/FishTankPlumbingLayout.jpg

Would like suggestions on the following:

Skimmer for system
Calc reactor for system

I would appreciate any and all input on this project. I would like to 'get it right' the first time.

95 will be mostly SPS with.

65 will be fish and softies.

Thanks,

Trip

[socalreefer73]

Looks good... can't suggest a skimmer or Calc reactor, sorry... But I would think about seperate pumps from the lagoon to the main displays and to the refuge and to the frag tank.

To the main displays and everything else as a fail safe?
To the refuge so it doesn't become a detritus trap from the main system?
To the frag tank so it isn't a detritus trap from the refuge?
(the last two could be T-ed off from two main return pumps?)
I believe you will need a pump for your chiller too...

just my 2c, since you seem to be pouring a lot of money into your system, you might as well add some redundancy and perhaps save yourself a bit of extra tank cleaning...

oh, and if you're going to get dirty fish (heavy eaters), you will want a beefy skimmer since you will be marrying the systems...

HTH

[lpkirby]

Just a question, wouldnt you want the 150 for the display.... More room for corals :D

[spanglish]

Looks awesome! Any pics yet?

[Hop]

Just a few ideas:) Take it FWIW:)

1. I would run separate drain lines. Reason being is the surging effect that can happen with two tanks. Also have you though about running a RC skimmer off one of the drains from a tank?

2. Have you thought about running two separate pumps... One for each tank and then adding a T to one of the pumps to feed your phosban and carbon? You could also run your Ca reactor off this leg. It would be easier in my opinion to fine tune the flow to each tank and you could shut one pump down and still have flow going to the other tank. One could also be used to pump water to your chiller. Just trying to save you cash on pumps here:)

3. Have you thought about a separate reservoir, maybe 5 gallons to drip your kalk? It could give you years of trouble free service, but my concern is that something would fail and you would either not add top off due to Ca encrusting your feed mechanism or having it fail in the open position, adding a ton of kalk and raising the pH to fatal levels... I'm still working on this one myself for my system I'm designing.

4. Rather than a lagoon reservoir, I would shoot for a quality sump that can handle all the flow, plus catch the extra water during a power mishap...

Just my $.02... I'm not sure my two cents is worth two cents:lol:

[Tripspike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9083115#post9083115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lpkirby
Just a question, wouldnt you want the 150 for the display.... More room for corals :D

Yes, I would. However, I am somewhat limited in space where the tank is going and I don't want to cram the biggest tank I can into the space. I am content with the tank sizes. Thanks for asking. I plan on making the 150 a 'play lagoon' so to speak for the kids. Supervised of course.

Trip

[Tripspike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9082847#post9082847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by socalreefer73
Looks good... can't suggest a skimmer or Calc reactor, sorry... But I would think about seperate pumps from the lagoon to the main displays and to the refuge and to the frag tank.

To the main displays and everything else as a fail safe?
To the refuge so it doesn't become a detritus trap from the main system?
To the frag tank so it isn't a detritus trap from the refuge?
(the last two could be T-ed off from two main return pumps?)
I believe you will need a pump for your chiller too...

just my 2c, since you seem to be pouring a lot of money into your system, you might as well add some redundancy and perhaps save yourself a bit of extra tank cleaning...

oh, and if you're going to get dirty fish (heavy eaters), you will want a beefy skimmer since you will be marrying the systems...

HTH

Thanks for your input. I would like to keep a centralized pump for the two displays. I was going to install a second pump as a backup in case one s*** the bed. I suppose I could plumb the pumps so that each display would have its own pump but if one should fail I could use the other for both tanks. I could accomplish this with valving.

The detrius comment is a good one. I suppose I could have a separate pump from the lagoon to feed the refugium or possible use the display tank pumps to also feed the refugium. I could tee off of the refugium pump or the display tank pump and feed the frag tank as well. I was thinking that the water from the refugium would be the best quality out of the entire system so it should go directly to the frag tank. Is this assumption correct?

Trip

[Tripspike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9083883#post9083883 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop
Just a few ideas:) Take it FWIW:)

1. I would run separate drain lines. Reason being is the surging effect that can happen with two tanks. Also have you though about running a RC skimmer off one of the drains from a tank?

2. Have you thought about running two separate pumps... One for each tank and then adding a T to one of the pumps to feed your phosban and carbon? You could also run your Ca reactor off this leg. It would be easier in my opinion to fine tune the flow to each tank and you could shut one pump down and still have flow going to the other tank. One could also be used to pump water to your chiller. Just trying to save you cash on pumps here:)

3. Have you thought about a separate reservoir, maybe 5 gallons to drip your kalk? It could give you years of trouble free service, but my concern is that something would fail and you would either not add top off due to Ca encrusting your feed mechanism or having it fail in the open position, adding a ton of kalk and raising the pH to fatal levels... I'm still working on this one myself for my system I'm designing.

4. Rather than a lagoon reservoir, I would shoot for a quality sump that can handle all the flow, plus catch the extra water during a power mishap...

Just my $.02... I'm not sure my two cents is worth two cents:lol:

Hop,

Thank you for your input.

1. I do not understand the concern with the surge effect. There shouldn't be a problem as long as the pipe is sized correctly to handle the 'gravity' overflow of the two tanks. Could you clarify this issue for me so I better understand.

2. This is a good idea to use pumps for multiple purposes. I will give this some thought and see what I come up with.

3. I have a dosing pump right now with a sweet little setup for top off which has been working really well on my current setup. Just thought I would continue to use it with a little bigger storage tank. This has been running trouble free for two months now. I use to drip Kalk with a Kent aquadoser and had nothing but problems.

4. What advantages would the sump provide over the lagoon? What type of sump are you refering to?

Again thanks and look forward to more input.

Trip

[jtreath]

You asked for suggestions for Ca and Skimmers

After 9 months of research I have settled on the Precision Marine line. I have the 622 Ca Reactor and the Bullet Skimmer.

These are to run on my 220G Tank and 50 G sump.

Now to be honest, I am just in the midst of the upgrade so I can not directly attest to them yet.. but the guy I finally bought them from use them exclusivly to run over 200 tanks in their commercial set-up.

Question though.. why would you run a Limewater resevoir and a Ca reactor.. isn't this going to be absolute havoc in trying to control pH???

[Tripspike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9083560#post9083560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spanglish
Looks awesome! Any pics yet?

Its all in my head right now and pics of my thoughts are hard to come by these days.

Trip

[Tripspike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9085616#post9085616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtreath


Question though.. why would you run a Limewater resevoir and a Ca reactor.. isn't this going to be absolute havoc in trying to control pH???

Thanks for the recs on the skimmer and calcium reactor.

Here are my thoughts on the kalk and the calcium reactor which I may be totally confused on.

The calcium reactor is used to add calcium to the tank. CO2 is used to lower the pH in the reactor to dissolve calcium. The limewater is only used to maintain pH in the system.

Trip

[jtreath]

I would ask a few of the resident experts about the Ca and Limewater. My understanding.. and I also may be really mixed up as well... is:

CO2 in Ca Reactor reduces pH which is then introduced into the main system via the effulent discharge. Most things I have read indicate a need to measure both the effulent and the main tank for pH to ensure it does not get out of wack.

But I have also heard that the Lime water will precipitate out of the water when the pH gets too low.

Now if you are using a pH monitor to control the CO2 in the Ca reactor won't it be tough to accurately figure out if the pH is too low or too high?

I had originally planned on a Ca and a Kalk reactor, but a number of people discouraged me from that approach. But this was a few months ago when I was planning my purchases

See now I am all confused all over agian..lol

[Tripspike]

The pH probe in the calcium reactor controls the CO2 to maintain a low pH I believe around 6.6 - 6.8 or so. This pH will dissolve the calcium in the media. The effluent then gets aerated to return its pH.

http://www.americanmarineusa.com/calcium_reactor.html

Limewater will raise the pH in the tank or at least help to maintain pH.

It would be nice if one of the pros could chime in here with regard to using both.

Trip

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9085612#post9085612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tripspike
Hop,

Thank you for your input.

1. I do not understand the concern with the surge effect. There shouldn't be a problem as long as the pipe is sized correctly to handle the 'gravity' overflow of the two tanks. Could you clarify this issue for me so I better understand.

2. This is a good idea to use pumps for multiple purposes. I will give this some thought and see what I come up with.

3. I have a dosing pump right now with a sweet little setup for top off which has been working really well on my current setup. Just thought I would continue to use it with a little bigger storage tank. This has been running trouble free for two months now. I use to drip Kalk with a Kent aquadoser and had nothing but problems.

4. What advantages would the sump provide over the lagoon? What type of sump are you refering to?

Again thanks and look forward to more input.

Trip

1. Even though our pumps pump at a fiarly consistent rate, the drains are prone to some fluctuation. This is due to wave makers, evaporation (despite an auto top off) etc. It may be a small surge, but still a surge. Now running two tanks with two mild surges may occasionally cause a burbing effect into one another. The surging could also become worse as the two tanks come together in a common pipe. Water flowing lets say 400gph meeting water going 600gph. Ideally, with a large enough drain when these two bodies of fluid meet, nothing would happen and it would flow where it is supposed to be. On the rare occasion that the surging catches up to one another and backs up slightly in the combined drain, you now have two unequal masses hitting head on, which compresses the air in the drain so to speak, which burps back out the overflow.

I had two drains tied together much the same was as your drawing, although on the same tank, and every once in a while I would come home wondering why water was on the wall and ceiling:) Then one day it happened why I was in the room and this was the best guess I had:)

2. Good deal:)

3. Glad it's working. Melev is the one that turned me on to this idea and I did it with my previous tank. It's that possibility of failure that looms:) One of those when it happens, you'll smack yourself in the forehead moments:) Better five gallons of kalk than 50... it's true many people do it this way and only a hand full have had an issue, I just don't want to be one of those with another disaster story!

4. I guess the lagoon would work if it's enough space to disperse the bubbles. Keep in mind that that much drain is going to mean a lot of bubbles coming into the lagoon. The sump would just aid in getting rid of the bubbles, but there are other ways around that.

The calcium reactor is used to add calcium to the tank. CO2 is used to lower the pH in the reactor to dissolve calcium. The limewater is only used to maintain pH in the system.

You pretty much right on:) When you begin dealing with a lot of calcium dependent critters and your need for calcium grows, it's hard to maintain it with a Ca reactor. As the demand increases, so does the amount of lowered pH effluent. Thus adding the kalk addition, aids in maintaining the calcium level while helping to balance the pH drop cause by the increased demand on the Ca reactor:) I hope that makes sense, I'm getting tired and shouldn't post too much more tonight!

[Tripspike]

Thanks Hop...great input..appreciate it.

Trip

[Tripspike]

Hop,

I think your drain problem came from a lack of air being able to enter the drain piping. A gravity drain requires air intake. If both overflow pipes were submerged the drain line would become 'airlocked' which is what I suspect happened in your situation. The gulp and subsequent blowback was a result of enough negative pressure built up in the drain pipe that it resulted in that big gulp or glug of air. As soon as that glug of air enters the pipe it frees the water to rapidly drain.

A simple tee in the drain line, extended above the disply tank would have alleviated this problem.

Trip