2.5 gallon tank

[bascerpharm4]

Okay, so my g/f and I really like salt water fish and since our 2nd year anniversary is coming up I decided to do something sweet for her and surprise her.

I recently built a 2.5 gallon tank stand with lid and I'm thinking about buying a clown percula with an anemone. It easily cost over $120 with the lights, sand, wood, salt and accessories, and nano filter, but it was worth it! The mini-aqua lights, about 9" was about $28 hooked up with fluorescent bulb 1X10000k and 1 actinic bulb. I haven't received the light yet, but I hope I get it soon! :) The sand was free, because I had about 10 lbs left over from my recent 10 gallon tank. The cost of the wood was the main chunk contributing to the fund, about $40 just to build a small 2.5 gallon tank stand, but it was all well worth it. The salt and the extra accessories, such as water condition, hydrometer, fish flakes, and toxic removies cost about $40. The nano filter was about $25. Total comes up to about $130. It looks nice I guess for my first time building a nano-tank stand with lid :)

As you can see even a little 2.5 gallon Nano-Tank cost a bundle, but compared to the reef tanks of 100 gallon and above, the price of this little nano-tank is cheap! :) I'm actually glad I worked on my calculations to figure out the dimensions to make it fit the 2.5 gallon tank, because it was a very crucial part in making the tank.

If anyone want to see pictures, I can try to post some up. Just know, that there won't be any fish, coral, or anemones yet :)

Kind regards,


Bascerballer4

[nYgel]

I would like to see pics . . . I'm looking into buying a 3 gallon Pico Tope from JBJ ($50 roughly, everything needed, just add sand/ rock) and want to see what people have done. Your probably gonna get people to say 'dont put that clown in in that small of a tank' too, I don't care, so I'm not saying it, I just wanna see pics.

[bascerpharm4]

Here are some pictures...

Front View
Nano-tank with big things :)
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3079/nanotank4zd6.jpg

Side View
Looks huge doesn't it :P It's actually only a 2.5 gallon!
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4739/nanotank1jm3.jpg

Front View
Open cupboards for accessories!
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5906/nanotank2qx0.jpg

Top View
Open lid and glass used as a base for the mini light
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6163/nanotank3tk1.jpg

I hope you guys like it and I definately hope my g/f will like it too :)

Kind regards,


BascerPharm4

[Dubbin1]

I guessing that you either don't have a clue as to what your doing or you're trolling....

[nudilove]

I agree Dubbin, a 2.5 gal in my opinion shouldnt house anything other than corals, maybe a shrimp, never a fish, and never an anemone.

[bascerpharm4]

For people with comments such as these two above. If you can lend me some cash maybe I can consider building a new one? If not, please...no comments :)

[pimp2daizzo]

lol looks good to me.....but i would go whit coral 2.5 make a good lil reef. have fun

[tprize]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9093422#post9093422 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bascerpharm4
For people with comments such as these two above. If you can lend me some cash maybe I can consider building a new one? If not, please...no comments :)

[violation]

[rodri075]

Some pretty rude comments here. However, the truth is (trying to give some good advice) that having an anemone and a fish in such a small tanks is REALLY pushing it. Anemones need to be fed at least once a week and you will quickly have a toxic foul mess from trying to feed it and the fish. Skimmers can help but definitely are not practical for such a small tank. This size tank can be awesome for small coral frags and little shrimp like sexy shrimp, etc...

[wea747]

Why the gap in the bottow doors? Miscalculation, or reasoning?

[drummereef]

Fish in a 2.5? Seriously, corals only please. Preferably polyps. :)

[rayman45]

its cute.... good luck with it and please show pics hen stocked

[wea747]

I have fish in a 3.5 gallon, and a fish in a 1/2 gallon

[DJChesnutRabbit]

I would have to agree that under no circumstances should you have an anemone in a 2.5 gallon tank. That will spell certain death for the anem and all other tankmates.
I have a fuge on my 2.5 and kept a (one) small goby untill his recent carpet surfing death. Anything more than that and your tank will be nothing more than a salt water filled coffin.
-Rabbit

[Rosseau]

I don't suppose you feel like adding a sump... then maybe you can have your cake and eat it too.



... Don't give up just because you're getting some pushy responses. People like to dispense knowledge only in little bits it seems, they don't want to give it all away. There is good info on this website, so keep us updated.

[gemini aquarius(t)]

yes as you probably get now there should not be an anemone or a clown(huge waste producer) in such a small tank, if you absolutly must get a fish then get somthing like a clown goby or something really really small(not a baby blue tank either) as far as anemones iven if you found one that would fit in that tank it will move around and without amazing luck it will find its way into the intake on your filter so please stick to corals there are some very "anemone like" corals out there such as frogspawn,hammers, and torches and for color you can get zoas and mushrooms even flordia rics if you want to spend money! but even if you get the clown (dont listen to the LFS) it wont be happy!

[Tang~Cop]

Look mate, we aren’t having a go at you. We have seen MANY MANY people waste hundreds of dollars because they didn’t follow the advice given. Your tank is to small for fish, but perfect for corals and snails. Theirs some really beautiful clams and inverts that will make you and your girlfriend happy, a dieing clown and anemone is not a happy site.

[Chaloupa]

I HAVE a 2.5 gallon...done up nicely with lighting, filter, HOB refugium etc etc etc and a fair amount of cash....I would NOT put anything more than corals (which look very very cool in a tank this size) and shrimp or a boxer crab.

The experience I have had with this tank furthers the above comments that the water is very unstable for anything more than corals. I did have a fish in the tank but feeding was tough as the water param's changed very quickly. You'd be amazed at how fun inverts can be....and easy in a tank like that.

Focus on making it seem bigger than it is...there is a guy on another site that has a 2.5 gallon "reef" that you would look at and think it was a lot larger..it is soooo FREAKIN cool!...I'd make that the goal instead of trying to get a clown and anemone to live in this size of tank...just my 2 cents...in the end you will do what you want..hopefully you'll take the advice that has been given even if some of it was blunt (sometimes that's all that works), it is all meant in the best interest of the livestock!


And yes, it does look cute!

[Kogo]

you may also want to reconsider your lighting. ive used that light on 2.5g tanks before and found it to be minimal in its capabilities. it was fine for mushrooms and polips, but lacking for most everything else. i much prefered the 2 x 18w pc.

also...
the quality of a nano setup is not defined by the money you spend, but by how well planned it is.

[edwing206]

i agree with what tang cop said. if you really want to keep a fish i think the biggest you can get is maybe a clown goby. and even that is pushing it. all the advice given to you is good, it's you choice to take it or leave it. good luck

[lessthanlights]

i agree with everyone NO clown and NO anemone in a 2.5. i had a clown and nem in a 7.5 for several years and that was pushing it. i had to do 20% water changes EVERY week or things would go bad very quickly. listen to the advise people give (for the most part) people know whats going on. try a shrimp or large crab instead.

[i2go]

As he said, he was "thinking about getting a clown and anemone". if he said, "im getting a clown and an anemone", then we have a problem. You can probably get a very very small fish in it, or, get a small clam. They are so cool, but you need pretty good lighting. I think you can get a clam, mabye, not sure. But anyways keep us updated, AND RC is about helping people...Not calling people d@cks. Not ducks, hehe

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9130162#post9130162 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by i2go
Not calling people d@cks. Not ducks, hehe

you like daigs?!


...what?


Daigs, you like daigs?


....ohhh, dogs, yeah I like daigs





Ok, sorry about that. Back to the real discussion.

[nsreefer]

I agree with the other people who have posted, but not with how they phrased their opinions. It would be unfair to the creatures you are speaking of to put them in a 2.5 gallon tank. It would most likely result in their deaths. This is not only cruel but a waste of money. You could make a nice little display with some zoanthids, ricordea, a shrimp, a couple of hermit crabs. A 2.5 just isn't suitable for fish. In this hobby research before purchase is paramount. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Mike

[nanoreefboy]

All I can say is that the tank looks nice. Good job on the set up and the stand and canopy. As for me I have no tools nor the skills to put one together for mine so I just have a plain 2.5 with an open top. I have alot of experience with 2.5 gallon tanks having owned one on and off for the past 6 years or so. Now saying that I will give you my opinion and thoughts on the situation. I will not tell you what you need to do or should do because I am a firm believer in this hobby that you can have one tank and a hundred different ways to set it up or stock it.
Now as for the set up I have the same light and have had it on all my 2.5 set ups and it has proven to be good enough for what I throw in there. I usually rely on water flow from a HOB filter and do weekly small 1/2 gallon or so water changes and top off every other day (ish)
The best advise I can give you about this size tank is to have patience and let the tank slowly mature. Add a coral or whatever and wait a good while before throwing something else in. As for fish I do have one in my tank and he has been in there for over the past year. He looks good eats like a pig and looks healthy. Now as for your idea of getting an anemone, all I will say is do alot of research. In doing your research I am sure you will probably figure out on your own what the right thing to do is. All I will say on it is most anemones even the non hosting ones will get way to big for a 2.5 gallon. Good luck with whatever you decide and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

[bascerpharm4]

Nanoreefboy: Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciated it.

Anyhow, I decided to transfer my former percula clown that was in my 10 gallon tank into the 2.5 gallon. I also added a hard coral and a green gorgonian. The clownfish looks really happy and is enjoy every second with the green gorgonian. Here are some quick updates on the tank.


http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6324/img1746ei6.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3510/img1753ze9.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7206/img1760aq6.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3586/img1770uh8.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7112/img1771ak2.jpg

Found this sweet skimmer and bought it. Works great, look at the foam its collecting. The skimmer was initially loud at first, but now its quiet as a mice.
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9600/img1773kx3.jpg http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/4707/img1774vf5.jpg

Alright, there you go. Those are the updates. Just want to keep it simple for now. Not planning to overload the tank, as it might pollute the entire tank. Water changes once a week should probably be a priority since I have 4 living objects in there and maybe billions of live bacteria growing. The light works great! Everything is excellent and the project for my nano-tank was fun! My g/f loves it :)

Thanks for reading the post guys, I hope you guys enjoy it and if you guys have any questions or maybe need some help on finding the equipments (lights, tanks, accessories etc.) give me an email at ProjectMelanoHCP@hotmail.com

Kind regards,


Chingy

[Kogo]

following along out of sheer morbid curiosity...

good luck bascerpharm4 / bascerballer4 / chingy

[whatnot45]

I congratulate you for your stubbornness. (no sarcasm intended) I had a similar situation where everyone told me i couldn't keep a clown and a bulb anemone in a 5 gallon tank, and they lived for over a year and a half in it, until i sold them back to my LFS and got some dwarf seahorses for it instead xD

[lessthanlights]

pure foolishness- it's not a matter of opinion, what can or can't be done, or what should or shouldn't be done. it's about the living creature you are responsible for and the best possible care you can provide it. just because a clown can fit in a 2.5 doesn't mean it's happy and healthy for the long term. all my fish can fit in a beer bottle if i try hard enough. i think you are an idiot.

[Secondgen]

It seems to me if you are claiming we should provide the best care possible for the creatures we keep we should leave them in the ocean lessthanlights. There is no need to bash on anyone!

[lessthanlights]

secondgen- read what i wrote- "the best possible care you can provide" i am usually very careful to never intentionally bash anyone, however bascerpharm4 has blatantly and irresponsibly ignored the advise of many knowable reefer and that to me is foolish.

[Kogo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9153864#post9153864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Secondgen
It seems to me if you are claiming we should provide the best care possible for the creatures we keep we should leave them in the ocean lessthanlights. There is no need to bash on anyone!

if the choice is keeping corals needing advanced levels of care in a poorly set up box of water VS leaving them in the ocean..

then by all means, leave them in the ocean...

[whatnot45]

it is quite comical though, if you think about how we as homosapians are so addicted to taking fish out of the ocean and sticking them in clear boxes.

[edwing206]

Well you did it. good job, i like the goni. where did you get that skimmer?what brand?

[Chaloupa]

Isn't that a Goniopora? not a Gorgonian?? looks like it to me...the tank does look cute...good luck to you. I think the skimmer is a Prism...I have one on my 10g, they don't work well but they do OK.

[nYgel]

lessthanlights, seriously, *** . . .

all that aside, I'm putting a small (less than 1/2 inch) into my 3 once set up, until it gets bigger and then transfering it to my 29g, I see it a decent move to put a clwon in a 3 unless you plan on leavin it in there its entire life

[gemini aquarius(t)]

well now i think you made the right desision not to get the anemone but you did ignore everyones advice to get the clown i would move him back to the ten where he will be happy also you dont have enough lighting or flow or a established enough tank for an acro it will die if nothing happens so i would take it back to the store

[nsreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9153864#post9153864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Secondgen
It seems to me if you are claiming we should provide the best care possible for the creatures we keep we should leave them in the ocean lessthanlights. There is no need to bash on anyone!

Perhaps this is the wrong place to tell people to leave fish in the ocean.... :p I would have to agree with lessthanlights, of course an aquarium is never going to be as good as a fishes natural habitat , however there are suitable aquarium conditions, and unsuitable aquarium conditions, which i believe is what he was getting at.

[chrisstie]

Banter and opinions aside, I am curious to know more about the little skimmer you found as I am going to set up a 3g nano to keep 1 crab. If you could pm me and tell me more i'd love to hear!

[bascerpharm4]

Yes its actually a Goniopora, my bad, wrong word.

[bascerpharm4]

Lessthanlights, referred me to a fool because I have a clownfish and goniopora in my 2.5 gallon tank. You don't call anyone a fool especially when this thread in for Nano Tanks. It's meant to be a very small aquarium and that's just what it is.

Anyhow, the clownfish is super happy. How would you know if the clownfish is happy or not? All a person can do is guess their emotional state. I'm guessing it's happy because every fish that has been caught does not have the choice to live where they choose to, so they have to accept the fact that they are actually still alive. Acceptance to life is the key to happiness.

What does a fish do when it first reaches inside a tank? It swims around stressfully but after a while, it takes in food because it has too. And it enjoys the time in the tank, even if its small.

The clownfish is enjoying the time of it's life in this 2.5 gallon and I don't care what lessthanlights said, because it's too late. I already set up the tank, put in the sand and rocks, and animals are living. Putting living objects in 2.5 gallon is not being a fool. It's a great idea, as long as the water conditions are kept optimal, along with good lighting. I have 2 (9w) fluorescent lamps and that is more than enough to keep those corals. Anymore than that will probably fry them.

Anyhow, my point is, if I'm a fool for setting up a 2.5 gallon, all you guys must be fools to own a tank because fish kept in tanks aren't happy to start off with. My clownfish has accepted the living condition I put him into and now he's happy :)

[bascerpharm4]

lessthanlights- If the animals die within a week or two from now, you can go ahead and call me a fool if you want to, but if they live more than a year or so, you shut up :)

[lessthanlights]

I know what Nano Tanks are. I've have several over the years. A 3 year old 7.5, a one year old 10, and a few 2.5 and a few 5s. From experience I know it is VERY VERY difficult to control water quality in 2.5 gallons even without fish. I believe most other reefers would agree with me that it is not ok to put a fish in a 2.5 especially when you had a 10. You are basing your decisions on what you want and think would look good rather than what is best for the fish.

[DJChesnutRabbit]

I commented earlier in this thread, then sat back and watched this unfold.
Dude you are a fool and I'll tell you why............

It seems you honestly think you clown is happy ?????

Ok........Try this on for size.
How would you feel about living the rest of your life in a jail cell ?
No recreational time or anything. Just sitting in a 6' x 9' cell for the rest of your life. WILL YOU BE HAPPY ?

I think not.

You need to get a grip, and stop thinking about your selfishness. Who's really happy you or the fish ?

[nYgel]

Seriously, the point has been made that the more "experienced" (as you like to call yourselves) reefers find it wrong to put things in a smaller tank and environment. So stop reposting complaining about it.

bascerpharm4 - Do you plan on moving the fish out when it becomes bigger? (pending on this answer will pend on which side of this I'm on, it is perfectly acceptable to use these things as temporary things, I'm doing the same for a coral tank I'm working on. Each fish is different, wish someone would understand this.)

[whatnot45]

We also must remember that it is just a fish.... Honestly a fish... WHO CARES if its happy Millions of fish are taken out of the ocean and killed for food, and we don't question their happiness.... why this silly little clown fish?

now ill sit back and wait for criticism.

[wea747]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166809#post9166809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by whatnot45
We also must remember that it is just a fish.... Honestly a fish... WHO CARES if its happy Millions of fish are taken out of the ocean and killed for food, and we don't question their happiness.... why this silly little clown fish?

now ill sit back and wait for criticism.

ahah good point, and he'll prob get more pleasure out of that little clown then a tuna sandwich. Plus we all go to the zoo and love to see the Lions, and Hippo's, I doubt they are at a happiness high for there life. The clown isn't at a high, but will likely be ok if the owner is responsible, and we all are willing to have animals suffer for our own benifit to a certain extent. Everyone gets so bent over a little clown, and probably thinks it over in rage as they pull throught the McDonalds drive thur for there dead cow, and chicken. I bet that chicken was so happy to bring you a satisfying chicken burger.

[fishyvet]

With food animal production, we want the animals to grow to market weight as quickly as possible; a broiler chicken's life span is about 21 days, a "meat cow" about 18 mo, and a dairy cow about 5 years. Animals that are stressed out ("unhappy") do not put on as much weight as quickly, are more prone to illness, and fail to meet their reproductive goals. Stress reduction and animal wellbeing is something considered when trying to meet production goals for many producers.

My point is, an animal's health and happiness are interrelated. We want our PETS to live as long as possible, right? So we need to try to provide our fish reduced stress and environmental enrichment for optimal longevity. FWIW, stress is the #1 killer of aquarium fish.

[nsreefer]

You must also consider that using fish and other animals for food serves a purpose- feeding people. What purpose does sticking a clownfish in little more than a drinking glass serve other that the owners' perverted enjoyment? Everyone becomes so upset when people use live fish to cycle a tank, or when someone keeps a tang in a tank which is too small, so how is this any better? It isn't. This is irresponsible, immoral and cruel. Most of the members on RC have the good sense to see this, however there are the select few who do not. People need to stop trying to justify one act of cruelty by bringing up another one. A zoo having lions and hippos in it has nothing to do with this discussion; if you have a problem with the zoo, write them a letter expressing your dissatisfaction. We're not talking about a zoo, we're talking about a home aquarium! As aquarists it is our duty to conduct ourselves responsibly. This includes providing ADEQUATE care for our charges. And as far as the "happy" clownfish, can you sell me some of the stuff you were smoking when he jumped out of the tank and had an in depth discussion with you about his current mental state? Cause that must have been triiiiipppyyyyyyy.

Maybe, just maybe us ripping on this guy for three pages will make someone else think twice before doing something like this, and if it does, it was worth it.

[nYgel]

I'm thinking twice about doing the same, but through that thinking i came with the conclusion that I will be putting a clwon in my 3-5.5 gallon tank upon getting it in a month. cheers

[Rosseau]

It's pretty hard to argue that a 15Gallon tank with a clown is really all that much better than a 2.5Gallon tank....

I don't think we personally know enough about the life of an average clown fish to asses how much space it should have. I think we are just accepting norms that have been put into place by aquarists over time. Only a few decades ago "nano" tanks didn't exist, reef tanks were usually over 50G (so i've read).
Now this was because of technological constraints, and less knowledge of aquarium reef chemistry.


So maybe in another 10 years, lots of people will be keeping clowns in bowls, like goldfish...?


Here's a little thought exercise.... Lets imagine a reef in the ocean that is ~25m deep, 9km^2 area.
(not that big of a reef at all)

Water Volume of that Reef --- 59,440,000,000 Gallons.

My Point?

20Gallons/59,440,000,000Gallons= 0.000000034%
2.5Gallons/59,440,000,000Gallons=0.0000000042%


Either way, it's not "natural".

[Rosseau]

I think it's fine to say that you don't think it will work, but to attack the guy seems a little much, when he's really doing the same thing we all are.. we're just defining what is ethical a little differently, and doing so based on pretty arbitrary means.

[abandund]

this is not a personal attack, but, how are going to control temp. fluxuations in a tank of that size? I had a 2.5, but eventually had to plumb it into my 300gal reef. I found that there was no way to control temp/nutrients/toxins...etc. I doubt the fish has enough going on in its head to know whether it is happy or not, but...here is my prediction: The acro will die, then the flowerpot. The fish could live for a while, clowns are super tough once established.

[Doglover_50]

I think this thread has worked through all the stages of Kohlberg's moral reasoning!

Anyone ever lived in an apartment and had a neighbor with a big dog like a dobey or a rott? And all the dog gets are 5 minute bathroom walks?

No need for any of us to analyze or split hairs and say if the apartment is x square feet. It's just wrong for the animal.

And yes, there are biological laws in regards to how much space an animal needs. It's dictated by how much area they need to feed. So when they go in a tank or a zoo, that rule goes out the window. So THEN there is the issue of how much room do they need for movement, exercise, etc...

And we're back to what size tank for what type fish. Ya don't have to analyze a great dane in an apartment, and you don't have to analyze this situation--it is NOT a gray area about what you can do with this fish.

Yes, it's a fish, so then I guess it's okay to experiment to see if it'll live!?? Moral reasoning here should pit: the cost if you turn out to be right (happy girlfriend, pat self on back?) vs. if you are not.
In reality, the result may just be a dead clownfish. And we all lose fish. It's just that this death will be to blind optimism in the face of provided wisdom proving it to ultimately be a hard headed and stupid choice.

Okay, enough lecturing, I've decided to put a snowy eel in my 12g jbj nano cube! I bought a skimmer and I can't wait!

[lessthanlights]

Rosseau-

You point is valid if you ONLY consider the available swimming space. You also must consider water quality. It should be obvious to most that water quality will swing much more rapildy in a 2.5 gallon versus a 20 gallon.

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9177748#post9177748 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lessthanlights
Rosseau-

You point is valid if you ONLY consider the available swimming space. You also must consider water quality. It should be obvious to most that water quality will swing much more rapildy in a 2.5 gallon versus a 20 gallon.


I know this. I was speaking more to the idea of a larger tank being morally correct as opposed to a smaller one, assuming constant water conditions. I'm not saying anyone should try and stuff animals into small tanks.

This is why I said I think it's fine to criticise the technical difficulties in attempting something like this, but less fine to criticise the morality of it. Although... if you can't get the tech things down correctly then you certainly have more of an argument that it's "immoral" etc..

[lessthanlights]

ahhh ok

[Rosseau]

I wonder if this guy wants his thread back? ha... does he still have a tank?

[whatnot45]

i dont think we should give it back lets keep it lol

[b190again]

That line about enjoying a clownfish in a 2.5 gallon tank more than a tuna sandwich cracked me up.

I don't think its right to do what our OP has done, I think it is demonstrating a complete lack of common sense. But then again, what do I know, I'm off to put a yellow tang in a jug of lemonade and then starch my dunce cap.

Who's got the cajones to make me do otherwise?

[nsreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9179060#post9179060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by b190again
That line about enjoying a clownfish in a 2.5 gallon tank more than a tuna sandwich cracked me up.

I don't think its right to do what our OP has done, I think it is demonstrating a complete lack of common sense. But then again, what do I know, I'm off to put a yellow tang in a jug of lemonade and then starch my dunce cap.

Who's got the cajones to make me do otherwise?

......................... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA.... GASP.... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

[kathainbowen]

Yeah, I've got to laugh at that comment too, but I'm just as guilty as the person who started this thread for keeping a clownfish in too small of a tank. I started a 3G pico for Xenia, polyps, mushrooms, and possibly a pom pom crab (uber-kawaii and fascinating little guys!).

However, a well-meaning friend decided to give me a surprise present over the holidays. A wild-caught False Percula. How do I know it was wild caught? They told me where they got it from (*I politely inquired so I could discreetly "lose" the fish and return it to the LFS it came from), and I know all their clowns are wild caught. Bleh. At least, if they were going to screw me over with kindness, they could have at least gotten me a T/R clown. C'mon. We all have those friends who have hearts bigger than their heads, and I have absolutely no luck between nets and traps. I've caught my peppermint shrimp, snails, or hermits more times than I can count, but no clownfish.

However, the now affectionately dubbed "Pookie" is the best excuse to start a larger tank. =D

[Rosseau]

this hobby is evil. dismantle tanks immediately.

[Doglover_50]

True...put the clown in the 2.5....resistance is futile.

[kathainbowen]

I'm not saying I recommend putting a clown in any considerably small pico like my 3G or the 2.5. I go through between 5 to 6 gallons worth of water changes every week to keep ahead of the nitrates. I'm sorry if it makes it sound like I was encouraging that. It's actually been far too much trouble for such a small fish.

I will be so unearthly thankful when the larger hex tank is done cycling.

[wea747]

I have a clown goby, 2 hemits, zoos, mushroom, ane shrimp, 4 snails in a 1/2 gallon pico, but it's plumbed into my 10" cube, and 10 gallon sump to keep it stable.

[gerry363]

So,are you so called experts saying that if one has a 3gallon tank with a 100 gallon sump,thats ok.
The water would be very stable,but the swimming area for the clown the same!

If so its not the size,but the care in maintaining the tank!
That goes for any size system.

Dont bash anyone,just stress the importance of water stability & how to achieve that goal.

How many of you keep your tanks at very,very low stocking levels so your captives can live a long happy life!!

[Poorcollegereef]

2.5 gallon clown tank is like putting a tang in a 10-20 gallon tank. Sure my friend CAN drive 135mph down the interstate but does that make it acceptable? While reefs play an interresting role in our own human self satisfication, there are acceptable limits to our own environmental manipulation. Honestly, if Bascer didn't know he couldn't put an anemone in a 2.5 gallon and that he is keeping an acro under 28w then chances are they need to be slapped in the back of the hand because all he is promoting is further bad hobby practices. The life value is debatable but the actions of this individual is degrading the hobby. Please research before you do anything! While we should encourage positive criticsm and offer better solutions the complete stubboness is quite childish. I know some hobby "rules" are bendable but they cant be bent backwards and therefore some mild roasting is nessecary when faced with sheer ignorance and stubboness.

ALL PEOPLE RESEARCHING KEEPING A NANO TANK: TAKE THIS TREAD AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT NOT TO DO!

There, I said it and I am going to go stare at my tank until I calm down.

[Kogo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9164513#post9164513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bascerpharm4
lessthanlights- If the animals die within a week or two from now, you can go ahead and call me a fool if you want to, but if they live more than a year or so, you shut up :)

any updates?

[nYgel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9227402#post9227402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
2.5 gallon clown tank is like putting a tang in a 10-20 gallon tank.

you just compared a clowns swimming habits to a tangs swimming habits. clowns do NOT need much swimming space, if they host something, they wont even leave that, a tang, NEEDS swimming space.

[Poorcollegereef]

I compared a fish's swimming habits to another fish's swimming habits. Clowns dont need a tang's swimming space but they need more than 12"x6" which is only about .52 square feet or .29 cubic feet of swimming space. In the wild, clowns do have a range of up to a couple of meters, but rarely leave a few from their anemone. Adult anemones cant live in a 2.5g so that argument is out. At least a 10 gallon tank can give a clown 1.67 cubic feet of swimming space. I say 20 gallons is better for a clown but 10g is managable. So if 2.5g is a quarter of 10g then it is like putting a tang (depending on species), which needs a minimum of 80 gallons (in this instance) in 1/4 of an 80g tank which is 20 gallons. I am not just pulling these numbers out of a hat, they were calculated as apart of my argument

Finally there is the water quality issues and stablility isses with such a small tank size that cause poor health regardless of the swimming habits of the fish.

Really, this thread is an example of not doing proper research. I know not everyone does all the research to understand everything about the hobby, myslef included, but if enough experienced and wise people tell me it is a bad idea, I am smart enough to listen. In fact, our entire (American) culture should take this advice, it makes a better society.

[Rosseau]

Be careful, if you get in any way political RC will shut down the thread! I've seen it happen, what a shame.


(don't ban me, slap my wrists if you will)

[Poorcollegereef]

sorry, not trying tobe political and was in no means intended to be political. why Amercian culture?: because I don't want to speak for other cultures and I always stress self improvement. I just trying to say that listening to others with good adivce is a healthy thing that promotes a good society like that here on ReefCentral. Stubboness does not.

Rosseau, is that name from the college there or the french philosopher minus the U? And I do think the revolution will be on cnn

[InvaderJim]

Looks good. Love the clown and it's choice of host. :)

[Rosseau]

Poorcollegereef. I wasn't meaning to aim that at you.. I agree with what you are saying, especially about culture. I've gotten reamed out a few times for talking about topics beyond reefing, as if they aren't relevant or important.


As far as the name goes.......... the boring answer is it's the name of a lake where I've spent a lot of time. Though i'm familiar with the philosopher. CNN would love to televise it.

[Brizjuan]

lol Im fairly new to this forum... its 3 am... I cant sleep... so i went ahead and read this entire thread... I must say you people desperately need to get a life... I bet the majority of you guys had hard ons while posting ur little angry hippy responses to this guys setup....Personally I am trying to figure out why someone would even build a 2.5 gallon tank... I know nano's are the new hot shi*.... but ***...You guys might as well cut off the top of a gatorade bottle, hang a flash light over it, slap in a baby blue powdered tang and call it a day... If this guy wants to kill a clown and waste his money than let him... But we dont have to start hugging trees and freaking out on the guy...

I am eager to read your wussy little flames some of you are about to throw at me... i bet if most of u confronted me in person spoke to me in person, ur voice would start to squeak and ur *** would pucker up like a lemon... cry me a river...

If i had a violin right now... I would play it for everyone....

Good luck on the setup man... Let me get your address so I can mail u my net to remove the clowns carcus tomorrow...

Love,
Brian

[Rosseau]

"Brizjuan", please go back to grade 3 grammar school, for me and everyone else who has read this.

You're getting a hard on now in anticipation of the "flame" I'm about to throw your way. Is that any worse than what has gone on so far on this thread? Nah, I don't think so.

I could put this back in your face and try and justify the importance of these discussions, but you're too far gone. Get some sleep man, it's the least you can do for yourself.

Much love, xoxo

[dameono4]

lets see some more pics of the tank, and if everyone who is ruining the thread would stop, i think we all here at reefcentral would appreciate it.

[whatnot45]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237287#post9237287 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dameono4
lets see some more pics of the tank, and if everyone who is ruining the thread would stop, i think we all here at reefcentral would appreciate it.

I agree!!

[nynex]

Brizjuan We dont need your Negative attitude here. Just because people care about
the animals in which they are in charge of...well keeping their tanks..doesnt make
them tree huggers. Most of the people who have responded to this post are only
trying to give this guy advice, because its only obvious he doesnt know what hes
doing. Your attitude of "well if he wants to kill a clown fish..let him"..Thats not the
attitude that people in this hobby..esp in reef keeping should have! Im sure if
someone like Robert Fenner or Julian Sprung would hear you talk like that..they
would urge you to please tear your tank down and get out of this hobby.

I know you are just trying to say "hey..why a 6 page post arguing on what this guy
should do...let him do what he wants!" But thats missing the whole point of what
this board is all about. From what ive gotten from my time here, is alot of cool people
who have awesome ideas on how to keep their tanks. This board is filled with alot of
very good advice and awesome ideas on better ways to keep our tanks. If people dont
speak up and say Hey..you are doing this or that wrong..then how are the newbies
ever gonna learn? Oh and by the way, throwing your words around saying that
people would be afraid of you is not the kinda of crap we want here...if you dont have
anything positive to contribute to this board, do me and everyone else a favor and go
away.

[Poorcollegereef]

Rosseau: I understand, I went back a read it and saw how it might be misread, thanks and I asked about the name because I met someone from a Rosseau College in Canada, just wondering.

Nynex, well said in a very wise manner, bravo... good form Jack, good form!

Brizjuan: That is not the behavior we accept here at RC. Plus, never mess with a Virginia that has been living in the fire called South Carolina, it is a dangerous mix of wisdom and passion. Finally, it sounds like someone needs a hug!!! Quick everyone send Brizjuan a hug!!!!!!

Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug Hug

Finally, (really this time) Lets see a tank journal... I want to see the results of a bad decision over an entire year.

[Xirxes23]

10 days after d-day, i want to see some pictures of how this fish has learned to swim upside down and go without food for long periods of time :).

If you pulled it off, congrats on your water change/husbandry skills.

No one including myself at the LFS i work for would have sold this fish into a 2.5, but if you do daily water changes and make sure to trade him out when he can not turn around, you should be alright.

[Rosseau]

Ah maybe my last post was a little haste, haha. It was late i'm tired and had an exam this morning... (if you care)

Poorcollegereef. I didn't realize you meant the highschool. That is actually on the lake i'm talking about. I used to play them from time to time in a few sports, mostly hockey. How have you heard about that place? It's a pretty small school.


Again, sorry for my contribution to the thievery of this thread! If you're still around we would like to see pics etc. and get back on topic.. even if it hasn't gone so well...

[wea747]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237437#post9237437 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nynex
Brizjuan We dont need your Negative attitude here. Just because people care about
the animals in which they are in charge of...well keeping their tanks..doesnt make
them tree huggers. Most of the people who have responded to this post are only
trying to give this guy advice, because its only obvious he doesnt know what hes
doing. Your attitude of "well if he wants to kill a clown fish..let him"..Thats not the
attitude that people in this hobby..esp in reef keeping should have! Im sure if
someone like Robert Fenner or Julian Sprung would hear you talk like that..they
would urge you to please tear your tank down and get out of this hobby.

I know you are just trying to say "hey..why a 6 page post arguing on what this guy
should do...let him do what he wants!" But thats missing the whole point of what
this board is all about. From what ive gotten from my time here, is alot of cool people
who have awesome ideas on how to keep their tanks. This board is filled with alot of
very good advice and awesome ideas on better ways to keep our tanks. If people dont
speak up and say Hey..you are doing this or that wrong..then how are the newbies
ever gonna learn? Oh and by the way, throwing your words around saying that
people would be afraid of you is not the kinda of crap we want here...if you dont have
anything positive to contribute to this board, do me and everyone else a favor and go
away.

So basically now you wanna control content as well? You say you want to learn and want people’s advice and opinions, even though you hate it, buddy just voiced his. You’re all so contradictory is retarded. All were really talking about here is who’s more mean. It’s a good thing some people cram fish in 2.5 gallons so the rest of you can feel better about yourselves, cause at the end of the day if you’re really, truly concerned about a fishes happiness put him in the ocean. Say whatever you want about acceptable standards and whatever else… any fish will live longer and happier in the ocean so if you truly care put it there, otherwise your just less wrong, but less wrong is still wrong so get off your high horses before you fall and hurt your butt.

[Poorcollegereef]

wea, please, nynex has the best outlook on the RC forums as any logical member here. I wish there were more of nynex type people and less of the ignorant reffusing to learn type. Not only is there no mention about controling content, but there is not one single contradiction in his logic. Yours however, suffers from a slipperly slope fallacy. (please open a philosphical logic text for binary logic in language)

Finally, cramming a clownfish into a 2.5 gallon is never a good thing. We (RC users) want logical and informed opinions, ignorant and stubbon ideas that do not progress the hobby.

Rosseau: I think when I was at TRB (international transportation conference) I ran into someone who said they were from Rosseau Canada, I didnt know if it was a College/University or a place, I guess I just assumed it was a educational institution since must of the people there were Masters and PhD research people . I just saw your name and the light clicked in my head. Strange things, small world.

Finally, yes, an update is needed and anyone with a similar set up should post their tanks. We need to logically and in a gentlemanly manner and discuss the issues with the pro/cons of keeping a fish in an extremely small volume of wate because most educated hobbist will agree that a 2.5 gallon is not large enough for basically all of the fish open for the average hobbist.

[AVALover5498]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237215#post9237215 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brizjuan
lol Im fairly new to this forum... its 3 am... I cant sleep... so i went ahead and read this entire thread... I must say you people desperately need to get a life... I bet the majority of you guys had hard ons while posting ur little angry hippy responses to this guys setup....Personally I am trying to figure out why someone would even build a 2.5 gallon tank... I know nano's are the new hot shi*.... but ***...You guys might as well cut off the top of a gatorade bottle, hang a flash light over it, slap in a baby blue powdered tang and call it a day... If this guy wants to kill a clown and waste his money than let him... But we dont have to start hugging trees and freaking out on the guy...

I am eager to read your wussy little flames some of you are about to throw at me... i bet if most of u confronted me in person spoke to me in person, ur voice would start to squeak and ur *** would pucker up like a lemon... cry me a river...

If i had a violin right now... I would play it for everyone....

Good luck on the setup man... Let me get your address so I can mail u my net to remove the clowns carcus tomorrow...

Love,
Brian

That was a productive post!:rolleyes:


-Chris-

[ricanboy57]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9241117#post9241117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AVALover5498
That was a productive post!:rolleyes:


-Chris-

To be honest I think his point made sense, not the way I would have put it, but a logical point. Most of us here understand the consequences of putting a fish in such a small tank, but then there are some that would heed our advise and some that won't care what we say. He fit s easly in the latter category. The only thing now is to watch for updates and say I told you so. (pretty much what Brizjuan said just put ...differently)

[tripsied]

He should have stuck a blue whale in that tank...now THAT would be sick!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

[StunnaShadez]

LALALALALALALA~ LALALALALALALA~
EVERYONE is doing the same thing by putting a fish into a tank. im saying that im not doing it, but im not saying that i wont do it, because in a month i will be putting a fish in a nano. let him learn if the clown dies, but as an aquarist, we know responsibility to feed the fish and keep the tank clean

[StunnaShadez]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9241757#post9241757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tripsied
He should have stuck a blue whale in that tank...now THAT would be sick!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

LOl i shuld try that one day:rollface:

[nynex]

WEA where did I say anything about controling content??? Dont put words into my
mouth. I just think its lame the guy comes onto the board and basicly slams
everyone telling them to get a life and then starts to be threating by saying" that
everyone should be afraid of him"...

I mean what is this....high school?. Im fairly certain that I can speak for a good
number of serious reef aquarist here. We are here on this board to exchange ideas on
reef keeping. You are the one who is contradicting yourself, by saying all fish should
be left in the Ocean and you are still doing a nano reef. I certainly respect your
feelings. Im also very into Marine Science and Conservation. But I dont see anything
wrong with having a reef tank or any other aquarium as long as you respect what
you are doing and care about the animals in which you have become charge of.
Like I said Im not here to argue, Im here to exchange ideas on Reef Keeping. If you
dont believe in the Aquarium hobby or dont agree with it...then this is not the
website for you.

[Brizjuan]

Whether its a 1/2 gallon tank or 500 gallon the fish doesnt belong there... most of you on here contradict yourselves daily....All I am saying is to have 4 pages of bashing this guys gift for his girlfriend is rediculous... Yes I feel bad for the clown... But animals are slaughtered everyday so all u can get ur #4 at the Burger King Drive-thru..Do you say anything about that... NO... U just sit there and lick your lips...... yet one guy mistreats a clown and u all mighty guru's unleash ur inner demons on him... And whomever brought up the names Robert Fenner or Julian Sprung.... LOL.....Finally the man with a full out boner for the situation.... ZIP UP MAN.... I dont even know who those people are... Please dont reply or bring up this post... you guys have embarrassed yourselves enough... A lot of u are just post whoreing to bring ur post numbers up so you could look like a bad as*.... Im not returning to this thread...so dont waste ur times

[Brizjuan]

O and NYNEX... copy and paste the words in my previous post that say you should be afraid of me... funny i checked it and cant seem to find it... retard.... I know what I said... the point I was trying to make was u guys are quick to flame someone on some forum... but had it been in person u wouldnt have the sack between ur legs to say a word....

[Brizjuan]

Im sticking up for every NEWBIE on this forum who has to put up with the bashing from u know it alls....way to welcome new members fellas...

[Rosseau]

lol. ah big man.... Have fun in life.

[Poorcollegereef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9242953#post9242953 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brizjuan
are just post ***** to bring ur post numbers up so you could look like a bad as*.... Im not returning to this thread...so dont waste ur times

wait for it...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9242965#post9242965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brizjuan
O and NYNEX... copy and paste the words in my previous post that say you should be afraid of me... funny i checked it and cant seem to find it... retard.... I know what I said... the point I was trying to make was u guys are quick to flame someone on some forum... but had it been in person u wouldnt have the (PCR editied) to say a word....

and...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9243011#post9243011 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brizjuan
Im sticking up for every NEWBIE on this forum who has to put up with the bashing from u know it alls....way to welcome new members fellas...

Wow... three posts and be sure to read them for the humor value




Brizjuan, your remarks are inappropriate and are not how RC likes to promote between members. Please refrain from this behavior.

Like I was saying, we need more thinking like nynex, they are quite reasonable and I think most RC members will share the same opinion. Once again, we need to strive for responsible reefkeeping and realize that the hobby benefits reef awareness and understanding locally which leads to global conservation. A 2.5 clown tank does not advance this idea.

[Brizjuan]

Rosseau- With ur have fun in life statement.... I just graduated with a BA in marketing from Princeton University... I enrolled into the school on a full academic scholarship... I have job offers coming out of my as*....and I am going for my master's in september.... SO yes thank you... I will be enjoying life...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

wait for it....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh

[Rosseau]

1. I thought you weren't going to check this thread.

2. Congrats on the schooling and job offers. However, in the end the reputation you receieve from your education only takes you so far. I know a lot of people who get great job offers, that's the easy part. Maybe you're not in top form here on the interent but I don't think you're CEO material with an attitude like that. So again, good luck to you. I hope you come around, we're all pulling for you.

Also, as a current student I know a lot of smart and not so smart people who have been accepted into schools. It's what you do with it that counts. So really, have fun.

[Doglover_50]

Hey Princeton,

Perhaps courses in how to use logic aren't taught to you Tigers anymore. Or perhaps you blew too many brain cells in last year's P-rade. First you say:

... I must say you people desperately need to get a life... I bet the majority of you guys had hard ons while posting ur little angry hippy responses to this guys setup....Personally I am trying to figure out why someone would even build a 2.5 gallon tank... I know nano's are the new hot shi*.... but ***...You guys might as well cut off the top of a gatorade bottle, hang a flash light over it, slap in a baby blue powdered tang and call it a day...

Hmmm....get a life you nano losers who must flame 2.5g tank man...and now let me flame 2.5 man myself!

By transitive property....welcome to the gang! Shocking that you failed to see the irony in that--welcome to the hard-on club, as you so brilliantly forward the debate on RC.

Further, you make your more than somewhat judgemental response of:

I know nano's are the new hot shi*.... but ***...

Hmmmm...according to your profile--you have 2 29g tanks and a 30g tank. Last time I checked--that qualifies as nanos! Hope that doesn't make you flaccid.

And finally, Mr. Princeton--I lived in Princeton, my sister went to Princeton, and believe me...you're no Princeton, Brizjuan:

i bet if most of u confronted me in person spoke to me in person, ur voice would start to squeak and ur *** would pucker up like a lemon...

As* puckering comments from a Princeton grad? Someone's got hostility issues....

[Poorcollegereef]

BrizjuanWell, from you ability to communicate with others and your linguistic patterns, I would say Princeton has either lowered their standards or you are continuing to BS since I was not able to find a marketing BA BBA or BS and there no masters program in Marketing as well. Next, I guess I should ask to please explain who is Oglivy and why they are important. As for me, I am in a Masters Program with a full research assistantship. I also doubled majored in History, concentrating in Early Modern Europe and Post Restoration England 1660-1670 as well as Philosophy with a concentration in Logic and Feminist Theory. (Strange I know) And now I am a part of Clemson's College of Architecture, Arts and Humanities which is one of the better schools in the county. My point, there are some well educated and smart individuals who see past you games. Even so not all RC members have to be scholars since the smartest person I have ever known never attended high school. To wisdom is spread though all people although you have appeared to have missed some. But like what Rosseau said its about the contributions you make in life because jobs depend more so on how you work with people and less on your school's name. If I was an employer and looking at your posts, I would not even dream about hiring you for the havoc you create and an inability to communicate with tact and as a gentleman/ or a professional woman. Please stop this conduct about the self-absorb posts, For someone who is nearly 22, you should be much more mature about this.

[Poorcollegereef]

For fun, Dog lover, I AM A TIGER AND HAVE LOGIC!!!
CLEMSO_N!!!!
GO TIGERS HAHAHA

But well said!
If I may ask, what is your academic background since professor was in your profile? I would just like to know. Thanks!

[Kogo]

Someone's got hostility issues.... [/B]

anyone with a half semester at community college and no job offers could see that.



The self aggrandizing and manic outbursts may be cause for personal evaluation as well.

[Doglover_50]

Poorcollegereef, while my sister went to Princeton, the family didn't have $ (and unlike Brizjuan no full ride for me), so I lowered myself and attended The University of Virginia. Slack, I know. My tiger reference was to Princeton, but just as well could have been for you!
C-L-E-M-S-O-N! Gooooooooooooo Clemson!

Or something like that. Maybe I'm a little off, but I heard that about 100 times when I travelled down to Death Valley for a game many years ago (because we got scored on 100 times).

And I did all of my graduate work in Florida, finishing up at UF.

So we're all in it together in THE conference of the ACC. Most sorry about your damn Duke game---that sucked! And I think yaa'l were off balance from that and we squeaked away with a win we didn't deserve.

Anyhoo, your're down in my part of the country. Grew up Georgia, then UVA, then Florida before moving west.

[Poorcollegereef]

Go Hoos... there is a ''paws'' (pause) between the O and the N but close enough... just don’t come from 16 behind anymore, shesh we gave up. Yeah, I grew up in Virginia and depending on when you graduated, I either went to the girls school, or the old girls school who broke away from y'all, Mary Washington. While UVa was an option for me, I wanted a smaller school and the History Chair at MW did a lot for me before I even enrolled. Can't complain. For my masters, UVa didn't quite have the concentration in urban transportation (which is now marine transportation) and there was no way I was going to go to Blacksburg! Always liked TJ's place

[Brizjuan]

damn i really have your panties in a bunch dont I.... I did in fact receive a BA in marketing from Princeton... The fact that u are thinking about me enough to look that up is making me blush... glad to be the center of your world... I gotta be honest guys my younger brother typed that original angry post as a funny response to all your arguing... that had nothing to do with me... But due to your responses I started to feed off of it and respond... You guys really need to chill out... The comment he wrote was a joke... and u guys are really offended by it... Seriously...gentlemen... Woaahhh... A simple comment written by a 16 year old is turning your world's upside down... I give up... Im beginning to feel sorry about all this due to the impact its having on you guys... I hope you guys aren't losing sleep over this

[Poorcollegereef]

Brizjuan, why are you still posting? Here is some advice: Remaining quiet might make people think you are an idiot, but this is better than opening you mouth and letting people know you are an idiot.

Finally if my little brother wrote something like that, I would apologize. But then again, very few people believe a thing you say.

Either contribute in a positive manner to the 2.5 gallon issue or bug off.

[Doglover_50]

The fact that you continued to impersonate your little brother is in a word...pathological.

It ain't cool to brag about your highfalutin college when your brother is "in the room" and won't be able to get in that school, btw.

What was the deal with him writing off your handle, and THEN you impersonating him? and continuing the useless discussion with more ad hominem attacks (like brother 16 year old , like Princeton brother?). THEN a grand redemption when you reveal your real identity! More evidence for some issues here. God forbid you could have responded with a "sorry guys, that was my little brother.... But you all are acting grandiose about this clownfish issue yada yada yada........." You know, raising the bar, not lowering yourself into the mud.

Weren't you were the one proclaiming that you wouldn't be returning because it was beneath you so please don't respond to your post? If only we were so fortunate.

To recap, your haughtiness works along the lines of: "It's wrong to flame this new guy, dammit, and worse yet, some as*ses are somehow involved, and some women's panties, and so I reserve the right to insult and flame all of you and tell you I'm such a superman than I tied all of your panties in a knot because you kept responding! And to prove my superiority, I'll instruct you to NOT respond to my post because I am leaving, but then I'll continue to come back for more! I guess that proves your panties are just fine!?

hahahaha---and you are right and clever, I'm at work and completely wasting my time on this sorry stuff because it is FUN.
Oh well--better get back to it.

[Brizjuan]

Lol sadly this is fun... only reason why I keep continuing... and dont lie you are all enjoying it as well..or else you wouldnt have posted as many responses as you did.... And no I do not have any mental issues.. this was all simply because I was bored.. But now I am bored of it and it got completely out of control... sorry ya'll.... good luck with the nano... keep us posted if you did not already flee this thread due to its pure insanity... l8r

[Poorcollegereef]

Wahoo: by using "ad hominem", you have made my day and I am disgusted with my self for not stating that fallacy earlier. Shame onto me! This is kinda fun, like watching jerry spinger.

Back to the 2.5 gallon issue, there is a father/son thread that actually might have solved some issues with small tank sizes. While I will not recommend it, he has enough experience to actually make it work!

[Rosseau]

Haha ah the 2.5G topic is far gone by this point, i'm sure the creator (I can't even remember who it is) has unsubscribed by now.

[Poorcollegereef]

wel, like I said there is a new 2.5 thread. Atleast the new one has proper research!

So who want to bet that Brizjuan will be back?

[Doglover_50]

If not back, he won't be able to stop himself from checking the posts.

The other thread with the 5 year old boy provides striking contrast of what a helpful thread looks like, with no references to as*ses, flames, panties, flaming as*ses, or the like!

Ya, I think the original poster unsubscribed light years before our new New Jersey friend did!

There is a springer-esque enjoyment to this--apparently for all involved! In any case, I am pleased to hear I have shamed you with my ad hominem comment and brought you self-disgust!

Wait a minute, Rosseau--your're saying this thread had something to do with 2.5 gallon tanks?????????????

Well, I've enjoyed posting and reading with 2 of you last 3 posters and will look out for you. Will look forward to reading more--hopefully in other threads!

I'm gone to have a phone date with my long-distance honey for our V-Day.

[Rosseau]

:) Haha. Ah I enjoyed this as well, otherwise I don't think I would be posting... I'm not trying to change the world via RC, so something has to be in it for me.


Though my world hasn't revolved around that kid's comments as he suggested, I've enjoyed shooting them down.

Here's a point to make fun of me for.... I'm ignoring a few girls tonight because my new DSLR came in this morning and i'm learning how to use it. (ooh, Brian is so tempted to flame for this one..)

Enjoy they date.

[Poorcollegereef]

Ha, yeah, I am ignoring my gf tonight too, but thats easy since she is 437 miles from me right now. Anycase she complained when I spent 6 bucks for LR but really the 'rock' will be picked up this weekend costing a lot more, gulp!

[Rosseau]

Ha, I guess live rock isn't really the variety girls like to see on valentines day.

My reef spending is going to be down for a bit. It's been pretty rampant the past few months and then I decided to blow a bunch on this camera, which now needs lenses. ah.

[nynex]

Brizjuan if you dont know who Robert Fenner or Julian Sprung are..then you need to
get out of this hobby! How can you be into reef keeping and not know who Robert
Fenner is! He wrote the book "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist"...its pretty much
the Saltwater Bible. Everyone I know in this hobby owns this book. Julian Sprung also
has wrote several very well known books on corals and reef keeping.

[nynex]

By the way Brizjuan I dont eat at Burger King....lol
That example was a very poor one.

[i2go]

you guys pretty much ruined his thread, O o drama incoming.

[Rosseau]

i2go you have to try harder than that if you want some action coming your way.

[Poorcollegereef]

i2go, yeah the thread was ruined by too much pollution. It is a shame that a ignorant comment can ruin a discussion, but this thread was pile of oily rags from the beginning. So lets let it go and see if there is any updates from the thread starter.

Interresting, I have always considered "The Reef Aquarium" to be the books of the hobby.

[JRNEUZIL]

Wow, just got reading all this stuff after joining the board. Just filled my new 2.5 gal. with live rock. Been out of reef keeping for about the last ten years.
Just for fun I opened up my copy of Advanced Reef Keeping, by Albert Thiel. Most of you kids are way to young to know who he is. Back in the late 80's he was the guy you went to for info on how to keep mini reefs. It is interesting to note that back then, nobody was setting up Mini reefs with less than 55 gallon with a 20 gallon sump. The more the water the better. The point being that since then stuff has gotten better, knowledge has grown and people tried things. Because of that we now have folks setting up 2.5 gallon reefs. Who would have thought. How much coral died at the hands of those who first tried their had at the small tank.
Not much different to me than this guy trying a fish in the 2.5. That's what science does. Push the limits to see what the results might be. If nobody did that we would all be looking at little bowls with pretty orange goldfish.

JR

[whatnot45]

I think A mond needs to come and get rid of this thread it is unsalvageable.

[Poorcollegereef]

JR: (sounds like I am talking to myself) It isnt about pushing the edges, which I feel an expienced hobbiest can do, it is about a inexperienced hobbist being reckless with life and to be stubbon and ignorant to listen to people's warnings. There was no attempt for the thread starter to even listen to the suggestions nor understand the limitations. Greed/Ignroance was the reason for this tank. Now while I still am against putting a clown and anemone in a 2.5 gallon, there is another thread about a father with 15y of experience and his son doing this as their first tank. Now here is where science may be progressing. This thread is where ignorance drives off the cliff.

I do think this thread is useful but there was a lot of burnt rubble to work through, but I guess that is what happens when inexperience and stupidity meets knowledge and understanding. Thus the war waged, but knowledge can be learned from it.

[jellyous]

Wow, I think all of you guys should get a second job as comedians. Bascerpharm4 don't be discouraged. But you might want to consider corals only, not trying to be a jerk though. At my lfs they have a 2.5 and it is full of nice colorful corals. You did a good job on the build. Good luck.

[Fishboy1230]

I have had a 2.5 with 2 fish and one crab and 2 snails for over a year. Not to mention all the corals in it too. It has less problems than my 40gallon!

[kathainbowen]

Actually, I do recall reading recently something from Jack Wattley doing an experiment involving rearing discus fry in intentionally heavily populated environments. I believe it was in TFH a few months back. I've been trying to find the article in regards to studying the effects of such high populations as dispelling the common newb myth of overpopulating or keeping fish in too small of a tank to "stunt" their growth.

It was interesting, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. =/

And, I do agree, the father/son tank is pretty sweet looking, especially fascinating since they use an airstone/pump for water circulation. It's a very unique looking set-up, and I'd agreed with anyone suggesting to check it out. Beauty of a pico tank.

[InvaderJim]

Man this is intense. :o

[Fiddler]

"but I guess that is what happens when inexperience and stupidity meets knowledge and understanding. Thus the war waged"


when knowledge and understanding are involved there shouldn't be a war

i don't remember any of the names here that were all in this argument, but there was one or two of you that were very rude, and in my own perception, quite stupid. Yet you say you went to college. I think either you are lieing, or you only went to school to have a good job and make money, and not for the education. And that is evident in the way you talk to people you don't even know.

[Poorcollegereef]

Fiddler, I truly wish with my heart your statement was true and wisdom could always avoid war, or at least a really nasty argument in this case. The word "Understanding" is really miss used and should really be "technical knowledge" forgive my linguistic ambiguity. However, I do believe that ignorance should not be spread on forums. I am not saying that a difference of an informed opinion should not be limited but it is the "informed philosopher’s" or experienced hobbist's mission to promote truth and defend it against sophism and pure ignorance. When there is wisdom on both sides, wars (Nasty Arguments) can be avoided even if they are heated, both sides will refrain from personal attacks. When there is stupidity, then knowledge should try an eliminate it.

[lessthanlights]

it seems members with more post counts are against putting fish in a 2.5 and those with less posts think it's just fine. i wonder if their is any correlation?

(disclaimer- there are obviously many smart people with low counts and "less than smart" people with huge posts counts but in general . . . . )

[Poorcollegereef]

interresting observation. My reasoning is that people with more posts have been on the forum longer, read more and are likely to have been in the hobby for a longer time. While there are many "newbies" (for the lack of the term) to reef central, it is a mix of both truely new and experience. Obviously if Sprung joned RC today, I would have more posts but far less knowledge (although I am currently working on that). Likewise, LTLights, we are roughly the same amount of posts, almost identical in the years in the hobby (both FW, cichlids and SW) but you joined about 2.5 years before me. Even our tank choices are similar, strange enough. Although post count, years in the hobby and other factors might not be perfect in judging the talent of the reefkeeper, (Eli, the 5yo is far better that me by the looks of it =) people need to listen to the warning/suggestions of a lot of expeience people and not defend rather poor decisions with such zeal. True, always push the hobby and the knowledge of the world farther, but lets us do it in a non-reckless manner. Peace!

[whatnot45]

im unsubscribing from this thread. THis is rediculouse

[mrbncal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9243656#post9243656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau
good luck to you. I hope you come around, we're all pulling for you.



Don't worry about "pulling for this guy", sounds like he's already pulling on himself pretty hard.

[lessthanlights]

poorcollegereef-

that is exactly what i was saying- you just did it much kinder and more eloquently than i would have.

my bet is that this thread gets shut down very soon.

[Fishboy1230]

im unsiscribing....

[ricanboy57]

anyone have a link to the father son tank?

[Poorcollegereef]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1046695

It is really quite nice. Interresting and for me it is more important to promote a new curiosity than harp on size ethics with this new hobbist especially since he has a good teacher by the looks of it. I still dont promote the practice if picos with fish, but hey, there are somethings that are more important, like furthering the interrests of the future generations in the current hobby. Hey, it was my father who got me my first tank after all.

[Fiddler]

thanks for the civilized reply poorcollegereef, lol it's a rare thing it is, and i'm glad you thought about what i said and came up with a conclusion rather than assuming i was saying "your wrong and stupid!" and yes i agree the word was miss used, the problem with stopping ignorance ona forum is that it seems hard to say "no you shouldn't do that" without someone feeling personally attacked

[Kogo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9259724#post9259724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fiddler
the problem with stopping ignorance on a forum is that it seems hard to say "no you shouldn't do that" without someone feeling personally attacked

that's worth repeating

[Poorcollegereef]

Fiddler: You are more than welcome, I enjoyed reading your posts and are always up for any friendly debate.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9259724#post9259724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fiddler
the problem with stopping ignorance on a forum is that it seems hard to say "no you shouldn't do that" without someone feeling personally attacked

I will repeat it for a third time =D
Quite a reasonable, thoughtful and correct idea. But it leads to a new problem; how to say "that’s not a good idea and you should not do that" without making it appear as a personal attack. I think it is possible to at least limit bad practices. But, the problem is within the language and how it is understood. I think for many people who have been on the forum for a while, they have learned the language "norm" and can understand when a post is more of a non-personal suggestion/critique, new people might not understand this social reef norm. There might be regional differences in communication as well. It is not just RC, but I have seen this at LFS and in life as well. It is difficult to tell someone "that putting the clowns with a lion is a bad idea" without insulting them. Some people can understand the reasons while others are blinded by their own self satisfaction will continue to push the issue. Like a child who is told they can‘t eat candy for breakfast, things can resemble a temper tantrum with the defensive side saying “I am going to do it anyways!”. This only furthers people saying NO! But like a child, we know that allowing this type of self serving, short sided behavior will rarely result in good. This leaves us back to the paradox: to fight ignorance or to permit it. Both have negative sides, but I feel that addressing it in a positive manner is the best option. Maybe there needs to be a disclaimer that “it is not a personal attack but…” but likewise one should also recognize there are discoveries made and advancement achieved when someone breaks from the cast in a informed action. Provide the light of information in the darkest errors, but be humble, this may be the best solution.

:beer: cheers!

[Doglover_50]

Poorcollegereef,
Here comes a personal attack in your direction--how dare you raise the thread to the level of debate with perspective-taking, discourse, and respect for others. I don't appreciate *your* judgement about my right to visciously attacks others in this anonymous setting. And your "science"--please--you are clearly part of the blame reefers first crowd.
You're either with us or against us, man.

[mhummel]

I like the look of pico and nano tanks when done properly and well cared for. Which was my reason for looking at this thread. Do I think keeping a clown in a 2.5 is correct.....no. But we've all made mistakes and learned from them. Either the hard way or actually listening to advice. It's all part of eventually keeping a beautiful and well maintained reef. I feel sorry for the guy who posted. All he was looking for were positive words and advice from experienced reefers.
How about constructive advice rather than 6 pages of this.

[kathainbowen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9254666#post9254666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
True, always push the hobby and the knowledge of the world farther, but lets us do it in a non-reckless manner. Peace!

I FOUND IT!!!

I found this very fascinating, from The Skeptical Fishkeeper, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine (December 2006) : Fish Growth vs. Tank Size. read on...

.....

Dr. Julius Tepper, a Long Island veterinarian who specializes in koi, says that in his clinical practice he's observed that koi housed in small ponds (which he defines as a stocking density of more than three adult koi per 1000 gallons of water) are often adnormally small, and they tend to have health problems as well. "I would agree that there is a definite correlation between corwding and fish stunting," he said. "Some factors to consider would be: a.) a naturally occurring growth hormonal influence, where it would be biologically beneficial to reduce growth rate in the face of potential food shortages [and] b.) stree hormones, released when fish are always in ech other's face, which would affect growth and probably health also.

TFH Editor-In-Chief David Boruchowitz agreed. "It is my contention, lacking strict empirical studies, that fish are stunted by poison," he said. "A large fish simple cannot remain in a small space for more than a few minutes/hours without poisoning itself with ammonia. Long-term nitrate poisoning is probably also a factor in many cases, as is pheromone non-dilution."

To back this up, he cites an ongoing "five gallon oscar experiment" that he has been conducting for the past couple of years.It has involved rearing a dozen oscars and one pim catfish in a 75-gallon tank, which, if you do the math, comes out to roughly 5.7 gallons of water per fish- far below the 50 gallons per pair that is often recommended. However, to remove ammonia, nitrates, and pheromones, Boruchowitz changes 100 percent of the water in the tank every day, literally draining it down until the oscars are lying on their sides on the bottom. The fish have grown normally, he said and (apart from two that jumped to their deaths, and one that died from aggression) are at least as healthy as any other of the many oscars that Boruchowitz has raised over the years.

Discus breeder and TFH columnist Jack Wattley conducted a similar experiment, the result of which he reported on in his June 2006 column, that seems to back of Boruchowitz's contention that water quality, and not tank size, is at the heart of the problem when potentially large fish are kept in small tanks. In the experiment, Wattley placed identical groups of discus fry into two separate containers; the smaller container, a glass drum, was barely a twelfth the size of the larger tank. Both containers were filled with water that had the same pH, temperature, and conductivity, and both fish were fed the same amount of the same food each day. However, the smaller tank recieved 90% water changes six to eight times every day, while the larger tank recieved only a 40% water change once a day. By the time the experiment ended a month later, the fry in the smaller tank were twice the size of their counterparts in the larger tank


.... discuss? (*no pun intended!)

[Poorcollegereef]

kathainbowen, I did like the pun! You should be pun-ished =D

This is very interesting and made for good reading, great job. Ok there is evidence that water quality is the most important thing, which is something every hobbyist should strive for, but unlike freshwater, massive water changes can be potentially dangerous. Yet we find ourselves at another dilemma: what is the best means to keep the water pristine and stable. TO use myself as a dangerous example... I actually pride myself on having a self-sustaining tank. I have only done about 4-6 gallons of water changes since November despite having a relatively high bioload. Feel free to use this point to your own advantage, but I have figured a system of over skimming (for a lack of a term), bio-export, DSB refugium, and finally, having two 10 gallon tanks where I have more chaeto to further remove undesirables. I add trace elements and replenish CA , Mg and Alk but really I consider my system to be a sustainable tank. Like water changes, I have figured a means to keep my tank as pollution free as possible, zero nitrates and phosphates. Now, back to the original 2.5g tank, doing large percentages of is not a feasible as for freshwater tanks. While water condition is the real issue, not the actual tank size, tank size will affect stability and will allow pollutants to remain in smaller concentrations than larger tanks. Yes, I would agree that a 75 gallon would have stability advantages more than my 40g system, but it is also up to the hobbyist to keep the water parameters up and therefore, depending on the hobbyist, smaller tanks can be both stable, clear and even self sustaining to a limited degree. Now, was this original 2.5g tank set up to be a stable tank or was the planning slightly incomplete? Now are there behavioral side-effects of keeping tangs in very small tanks? That is up to debate, but like Eli’s tank, there is something special about that because there was some advanced knowledge going into the tank and I am interested in how the water quality is maintained.

I am never with or against anyone, I am interested in taking things and putting them in glass boxes to study them.

[kathainbowen]

I knew the article was somewhere in the house. I also knew it would be when I completely forgot I was looking for it, that the article would turn up. I was moving furniture around tonight to put my new stand in, and found that the missing issue had fallen behind a table and gone unnoticed for some time. Apparently my fat kitties knocked more than a few things off the night table that had been in the new stand's current place. XD

[Poorcollegereef]

Haha, I wish I could just find interresting reading material while moving furnature, but then I would stop moving and start reading and the moving would never get done. I think I need to upgrade my aquarium library since I only have three books, and two were bargain gifts my girlfriends mother gave me so their big discussion is between the differences of air-driven skimmers and undergravel filters. But, hey, I have checked out several of sprung's work from the campus library for a semester or two, so it can be that bad. Anyways, thanks for the contributions!!!!! and beware those fat cats!

[kathainbowen]

Yeah.... that's basically what happened to me. I found all sorts of neat stuff that they've been knocking off that table for months now. Some articles I'd put aside, some letters, a bank statement I'd been hunting for, a pair of earings, a contact juggling sphere, some quick links from my poi, a baby medicine dropper from the pico.... all sorts of things. Silly kitties.

Have you checked out Julian Sprung's Algae: A Problem Sovler's Guide? How in the devil does that man make me want to devour a book about algae? Iunno. My manager made me read a small selection in the book, and, just like him, I ended up reading the whole thing. Excellent book, just like pretty much all of Sprung's books. =D

[ratherbefishin]

I'm only posting because I saw that there were fellow ACCers on here. I go to Carolina and completely felt Clemson's pain in the Duke game, but they have gotten what was coming to them lately (other than this week at BC--that was shocking). Additionally, I am not impressed with the writings of an alleged Princetonite. I have known NC State grads that seemed much smarter.

[Mrseptember15]

lol I dont have the time to read all 6 pages but if your going to go with the 2.5gallon tank and make it for your gf then why not frag a mushroom into a heart and put it in the middle and fill the rest of the tank with colorful coral. Saves yourself 25bucks on the clown =)

[lessthanlights]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9263513#post9263513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mrseptember15
why not frag a mushroom into a heart and put it in the middle and


hahaha great answer- but really how long would it stay heart shaped?

[kathainbowen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9264042#post9264042 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lessthanlights
hahaha great answer- but really how long would it stay heart shaped?

If you wanted it to stay longer- you could do it with a leather or a ric. That should take a bit longer than a standard mushroom to close back up. But, if you do it with mushrooms, they're pretty tenacious little guys, and they'll just keep coming back for more!

But, y'know, for a pretty smart-*** sounding response, making the heart-shaped frags would be pretty sweet and cool!

[Poorcollegereef]

Why not buy a few pieces of live rock covered with red mushrooms and aquascape that into a heart shape, but then again my girlfriend would be happier with me not spending the money on the tank/tanks.

Ratherbe: Lets hope Duke does not get on a roll, we have the pleasure of revenge in Littlejohn this week. I think this game is our make or break game for the season. Like all Clemson sports this year (Soccer, Football, Basketball) we were on fire for the first half of the season then ice cold the rest. Baseball is ranked #1 right now but lets hope that is not following the same trend.

[Doglover_50]

ha! A shot at NC State! I love it!

And Poorcollegereef, I hope you realized that my last post--the "personal attack" was a complete joke.

[Doglover_50]

PS--nice UVA win over FSU today, wonderful to be tied again for 1st place!

[55semireef]

Such a small tank. :)

[ratherbefishin]

Maybe there should be an ACC sports thread in the lounge (or maybe there is, i've never been to the lounge area).

Poorreefer--I'll be pulling for the Tigers against Koach K and his gang of baby-eaters. I'm glad baseball is ramping back up, our first games have been this weekend. It was nice to see the Heels make it to the CWS last year but then they choked.

[Poorcollegereef]

I understood it as a compliment, thank you. I guess I should be happy that Clemsom still has the second best overall record, now if we could only win these darn ACC games. Uggg. It is also a shame that the ACC tourny is in Tampa, too far away.

[Doglover_50]

Glad the compliment was taken.

55semireef--before moving to Arizona, I lived in Gaineville for 3 years. So I try to root for the Gators when I can, but it can be hard sometimes--I grew up in Georgia and my undergrad years were at UVA, so I try to support my ACC teams--even going so far as to root for Duke or Carolina in the dance.

As for Tampa--that is a rather crazy place for the ACC tourney, but Virginia never seems to fare well in the state of North Carolina for the ACC tourney, so I welcome the change!

It is a small tank--plenty of ACC and SEC reefers, it seems.

[kathainbowen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9264821#post9264821 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
Why not buy a few pieces of live rock covered with red mushrooms and aquascape that into a heart shape, but then again my girlfriend would be happier with me not spending the money on the tank/tanks.

Cheaper- star polyps, exacto blades and reef epoxy. It'll also spread into the heart faster.... but these are all terribly cheese-a-rific ideas..... but.... strangely.... that doesn't stop me from grinning at the thought. <3 <3 <3

[Poorcollegereef]

Dog: I would agree that having the tourney in Richmond or even DC would have been nice, but Tampa is just too far for a grad student I guess.

I always pull for the original ACC teams, Hokie High, Miami and BC just dont count yet and FSU to a degree although thats where my father spent some time so that make things fun. Oh well back to the tank I guess.

[lessthanlights]

ohh look shiny object!

[kathainbowen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9268790#post9268790 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lessthanlights
ohh look shiny object!

Where, where? Which way did it go?!?

XD

[Poorcollegereef]

Sorry, it was my tinfoil. I will put it away and return back to the 2.5 gallon subject. Where were we???

[wea747]

So are we getting an update, or did you already kill everything to nicely fuel all these haters?

Note: You can't judge something by it's abuse

[burks]

Well after reading this topic I've learned a few things:

1. Just because it has been done, doesn't mean it should be done.
2. Even people with respectable post counts give bad "advice".
3. Try not to post any pictures of my current or future tanks.

Good topic. All people thinking about raising Clown's should read this.

[Kogo]

is this thread still alive?

[bobbyreefer]

[violation]

[Kogo]

10 posts, 5 different forums, ten links to the same commercial website....

hmmm!

[Poorcollegereef]

wea, kogo: I don't know, I thought this would be gone by now. It is like a zombie or Aiptasia... no matter how many blasts you fire into it, it just keeps chugging along. "Gasp! Night of the living un-thread" Sorry for the tinfoil.

burks: You are a wise person.

Bobby: I dont have any experience with LEDs other than moonlights. I have heard that it can be done though....

kogo: really? a ad-bot of sorts? wow, this thread has it all!

[Doglover_50]

BOBBY GOT ZAPPED!

[lessthanlights]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9289908#post9289908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Doglover_50
BOBBY GOT ZAPPED!

that's kind of funny and even though his post were in obvious violation his link does seem to be the first (?) plug and play led system for the DIYer. i may put some over my 5.5 and see where it goes.

[Kogo]

your assuming of course that its a legitimate site / product in the first place.



those conducting shady advertising often run shady companies!


.02

[Poorcollegereef]

:blown:
Well atleast Bobby made his own thread in the Advanced Topic's Forum. This thread would not be the best place to sell something, too many mad and jaded opinions.:wave: but firearms might do well... oh well. What more is there to discuss about 2.5 gallons?

[preculafreak06]

just to be nice hows the tank

[Doglover_50]

I think we were discussing how well a clown triggerfish would adapt to life in a 2.5 gallon nano. Was that it?