Baffles gave out...now what?

[CasinoBob]

Of couse I didn't do a freshwater run before setting up my tank. After a couple of hours with the tank running the baffles gave out. The problem is now I can't get the sump out with the tank full to reseal te baffles in to place. It wouldn't be such a problem except the refugium area won't keep sand in place.

So the question is, is there any way to reseal the baffles in to place with a couple of inches of water in the sump. Is there a cetain sealant that can be used? Or am I just SOL?

[30mini]

Well, you could get your baffles out and use some EDPM stripping like they sell at HD and put them in there with that. It seems to work for some people

[Iammatt219]

if it is glass on glass there is a black silicone that will cure underwater. I don't know the specific type to get from a hardware store but AGA repackages it and resells it


HTH

[CasinoBob]

The baffles were made out of acrylic, will that still work?

[CasinoBob]

By the way Iammatt219, do you have have any full tanks pics of your 58 gallon tank? Thats what I am setting up and am looking for some aquascaping ideas.

Thanks!

[Iammatt219]

no full tank pics....I need a better camera

I don't think silicone will hold acrylic in place

[CasinoBob]

If I have to leave the baffles loose, how important is it to have a little additional sand in the fuge? I'll have a 4-5 inch sand bed in the display tank. If I forget about the sand the sump could be fine as is.

[CasinoBob]

Found some Putty at Lowe's. Was wondering if it would be safe to use? (Might be a dumb question) It says all ingredients are non-hazardous, but is that the same as non-toxic?


Here is the link to the product...
Plumber's Putty (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=23536-138-201/31166&pad=true)

[perpetual98]

I had that happen to me and I couldn't pull the sump out. What I ended up doing was making an acrylic "box" that was about 16x12x10 with baffles in it. I then just put that "box" into the sump with the return pump inside of that.

[I like Triggers]

The reason the baffles gave way in the first place is because you need to go with glass on glass of acrylic on acrylic, bonding between the two is almost always unsuccessful.

You dont need to run sand in your fuge if you get some good dense algae. My fuge is just some rubble rock in my sump with algae and no sand and it rocks. Tons of life in there, a lot of weird things.

[douggiestyle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9119855#post9119855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CasinoBob
Found some Putty at Lowe's. Was wondering if it would be safe to use? (Might be a dumb question) It says all ingredients are non-hazardous, but is that the same as non-toxic?


Here is the link to the product...
Plumber's Putty (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=23536-138-201/31166&pad=true)

it may work. its got some things i wouldnt want in the tank, oil and ground stone are the main ingrediants. it wasnt designed to hold things in place. i wouldnt use it.
http://www.plumbmaster.com/downloads/97542msds.pdf

ide try the edpm strips and switch to glass baffles. use 3/16" - 1/4" shelf glass which should be available at most hardwhare stores.

[perpetual98]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9122820#post9122820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by I like Triggers
The reason the baffles gave way in the first place is because you need to go with glass on glass of acrylic on acrylic, bonding between the two is almost always unsuccessful.


This information is patently FALSE and I wish people would just quit propagating this.

If the sump is designed and constructed well, there's NO reason that acrylic baffles won't work. End of story.

[douggiestyle]

i think its more that silicone does not adhere well to acylic that has caused this miss conception. also if using too thin of an acrylic it will bow more than the equivelent glass thickness. if you do not have a good seal the bowing could cause the acrylic to give loose. thicker acrylic, tighter tollerances and good craftsmanship with the silicone will give excellent results.

[perpetual98]

^^^ Here, here!

*Lifts foaming mug of beer in toast to douggiestyle*

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9122928#post9122928 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by douggiestyle
i think its more that silicone does not adhere well to acylic that has caused this miss conception. also if using too thin of an acrylic it will bow more than the equivelent glass thickness. if you do not have a good seal the bowing could cause the acrylic to give loose. thicker acrylic, tighter tollerances and good craftsmanship with the silicone will give excellent results.

Again, the silicone not bonding to acrylic well is incorrect. Ever try to pull out a siliconed in overflow? Its almost impossible to get out without cutting. The bond is plenty strong, but its physical, and not chemical.

THe problem is, people use the really cheap 3/16" acrylic you can get at home depot, and it bows so much that it pulls away from the bond.

[fkbsar]

I also second that!

My first two sumps had thicker acrylic baffles glued to glass and held until I took them down with no problems. The second sump I used thinner acrylic on the baffles and it is now bowing and separating.

The EDPM - Which section is that located in and I know if I ask for EDPM they are not going to know what I'm talking about so what do I call it or how do I describe it?

[perpetual98]

Just look for EPDM weatherstripping at the hardware store.

[douggiestyle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9123404#post9123404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Again, the silicone not bonding to acrylic well is incorrect. Ever try to pull out a siliconed in overflow? Its almost impossible to get out without cutting. The bond is plenty strong, but its physical, and not chemical.
THe problem is, people use the really cheap 3/16" acrylic you can get at home depot, and it bows so much that it pulls away from the bond.

you may have a point. because the plexiglass is flexible the silicone doesnt maintain its adhesion.

still everytime i used silicone with acrylic (in non aquarium enviroments) the results have been negligible. for instance i used very large acrylic sheets in a display. i had to adhere them to a wall. i used silicone. i also had to apply a neon sign to the sheets. the sign had clear acrylic standoffs. i used the silicone in hopes that being clear would be less noticeable. the stand offs pealed off nearly immidiately. within a year most of the sheets had pealed off the silicone. the silicone did remain firmly attached to the wall. i ended up using a different adhesive (similar to liquid nails) and acheived excellent results that lasted over a decade. i used screws for the acrylic stand offs. not that this has much to do with aquariums, just that i will stand by my guns that silicone does not adhere well to plexiglass. why? i can only guess.

[kelley_mc]

I just removed some acrylic baffles from my sump. I was able to peel the silicone right off the acrylic in one long piece. The glass on the other hand, I couldn't pull it off. I had to use a razor blade to cut the large pieces out and then spent an hour scraping off the remains. What a PITA.

I go agree that silicone can be used in a sump successfully, but there is little doubt that is "sticks" to glass better than acrylic. Like Rich said, it is chemical with glass and physical with acrylic.

[CasinoBob]

Thanks guys, I think the easiest quick solution would be to use perpetual98's idea of just making a quick box that will house the fuge. Since I already have water running through the sump, I would rather not have to try to get all the water out and reseal glass or acrylic.