Large Frogspawn not extending fully for last 6 mo at least. Before and after pics

[Froggy]

Well, this Frogspawn was my very first coral added to my 75 gallon reef about 4 years ago. It has grown significantly over the last few years but has not looked it's best for some time now. It started as a small fragged colony about the size of a baseball when I first added it to the tank. It has grown to a colony over 2 feet long but no longer fully extends night or day regardless of lighting intensity. Here are my parameters before the pic's

Temp 78 degrees
S.G. 1.025-1.026
Calcium 380 PPM
Alk 9.6 DKH.
Magnesium 1300 PPM
The tank is very established for years so I have not tested Amonia, nitrate, nitrite for a very long time.

I have noticed that my Kole tang forages between the colonies branches but the whole colony seems affected by the lack of extention. Here are the pics.

Curent pic showing withdrawn look

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/robertsonjoe/DSC00242_edited-1.jpg

Older fully extended :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/robertsonjoe/DSC02001_edited-2.jpg

Pic of brand new coral 4 years ago shortly after adding to tank

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/robertsonjoe/DSC00052.jpg

I need help....any thoughts ??

[jasper24]

I recently fragged my frogspawn and traded half of it to a fellow reefer. It was about the size of a soccer ball before fragging. When he got it to his tank it would not open all of the way. We compared specs and his lighting was more intense than mine. He moved it down and away from the light and after a few days it is opening fully now. Just a thought.

[Froggy]

Thanks for the reply Jasper. I guess lighting could be an issue. The coral spent 2 years under a couple of 175 watt 14 K Hamiltons ( pretty low PAR #'s ) and 2 55 watt PC's. It then spent a year under a pair of 175 watt 10 K reeflux ( no idea on PAR #'s but surely more than the Hamiltons ) and 2 110 watt VHO's. Since December, I have been using 2 175 watt Iwasaki 15 K's and 2 110 watt VHO's. The Iwasaki's are on Mag ballast so they are at 71 PAR/PPFD). The Frogspawn is as low as I can get it and is completely fused to the liverock with growth.

I am not sure it is lighting as it does not even fully extend under the 2 hours of Dawn Actinic only and 1 1/2 Hrs of dusk actinic only.

I also change 5 gallons a week on the tank with 90-100 gallons of total water volume.

I really hope I can figure this out with everyones help. It makes me sad to see it in it's current unhappy state all the time. :(

[wantsalotta]

just from the pics, it looks like it is getting much less light now than when it was pictured open.

In another direction, how are your params?

[Froggy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9113651#post9113651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wantsalotta
just from the pics, it looks like it is getting much less light now than when it was pictured open.

In another direction, how are your params?

The pictures are just deceiving. It is under more lighting now withdrawn than the open picture. The open picture was when the lightig was the weakest. It has had a year to adjust to higher intensity and again about 2 months to adjust to the Iwasaki's that I am running now.

Param's that I know are posted above in original post.

[ataylo13]

I am having a very similar issue. I noticed that the flesh was receding on the branches. It has stopped receding (about an 1" from the tips) but i am still not getting the extension I am expecting. I initially had the base stuck in some sand and that is what I attributed the recession to but now it have it wedged into the rocks and no change. I believe that my tank has less light than the tank it came from.

[onegreenray]

correct me if i am wrong but shouldn't the calcium be about 450? do you know what your ph is?

[Froggy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9116978#post9116978 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onegreenray
correct me if i am wrong but shouldn't the calcium be about 450? do you know what your ph is?

It is not necessary to keep calcium that high even though I usually keep it over 400 PPM. My Ph is usually a little low and always has been. It stays 7.8-8.0 depending on the time of day. The PH has been in this range since the tank was started.

[soni]

Have you added more flow? I noticed in 1 pic there was only 1 seio, when it was open.

I had the same issue with mine. When I added more flow he didn't open as far. I went to more sps so I traded him.

[Justin74]

I know you said there getting more light now, but I too believe it to be a lighting issue. Not just looking at the frogspawn but more noticebly to me is the monti-cap next to it. In the original picture look how rich and dark the orange is. Now along with the declining health in your FS, I also see a decline in color on the orange monti. Somethings definately amiss. Seems the tank is either getting too much light, causing it to bleach, or not enough(my guess is the first especially if you added Iwasaki's 2 months ago, those guys are PAR monsters)
Or lastly, your just not feeding your tank enough and theres not enough nutrients. Or a combination of not enough food, and too much light.

I would suggest just a couple things to "try". First feed some phyto or rotifers, or cyclopeeze, ESPECIALLY if you havent fed for a long time or at all. May want to consider going to a higher Kelvin bulb to reduce the PAR levels. Understand you dont have ALOT of high light demanding corals, especially considering how shallow your tank is, Im just not convinced that the intense light you have now is warranted for this application, especially seeing the health and vigor of the older pics. The added flow was a good move, ya it can innitially **** a frogspawn off, but only temporarily and Ive found better extension making sure there tenticles are flowing good. Too little flow and Ive watched heads of frogspawn just wither and slough away.

-Justin

[soni]

I added 4 mjmod 1200's to mine thats why I got rid of him :D

[Froggy]

Thanks for the continued responses.

I have upped the flow in the tank to accomodate the SPS in the tank and at 1st I thought that was the issue but things have been at this flow for some time and the Frogspawn has not "bounced back" if that was what was angering it.

As for lighting, it was beginning to withdraw under the lessened light as well and has been in the same but not worse condition sine going to the Iwasaki's 1 1/2 months ago.

Justin, I really think you may be on to something with the feeding issue. I had been under the false assumption of keeping nutrients low in the tank by feeding "very" sparingly and I also upgraded skimmers from a Remora hang on to a Euroreef CS 6-1 needlewheel skimmer that pulls a lot of skimmate, I noticed my SPS had been growing but continually lightening and going very pale. I then learned through reef central that heavier feeding is needed as long as export is high. If you can believe it, the red/orange monti cap was even lighter and actually has been darkening ever since I began feeding the tank heavier. I also plan to increase the fishload a little bit as well. I used to only feed a couple of times a week and now feed daily and feed Mysis, Cyclopeeze, and an algae based frozen food made by Lifeline.

Hopefully it is just a feeding issue and things will continue to improve with time. Thanks for making the nice observations of coral lightening in the tank. That may be the key !! :)

[wantsalotta]

frogspawns like low-ish flow, it may not "bounce back" from too high flow. Lower flow + higher nutrient + med. light = Happy Euphyllia sp.

[chriscobb]

I keep both my frogspawns in higher flow......On first introduction into the system didn't care for it to much, but over time I believe they will adapt to the flow.....My flow isn't constant since flow is regulated by an 8Way OM.

[highquality]

Mine do not open like they did 4+ years ago. They continue to grow and branch but they have lost that long swaying tentacle beuty. i too think they are deprived of nutrients and food or something is missng

[Froggy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9129180#post9129180 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by highquality
Mine do not open like they did 4+ years ago. They continue to grow and branch but they have lost that long swaying tentacle beuty. i too think they are deprived of nutrients and food or something is missng

I hope it is just a feeding issue. Mine continues to sprout new heads and branches regularly but just no longer extends like you said. It even extends poorly in the very shaded areas on the lower left of the colony which has me questioning as to whether it is a lighting issue. At least growth is not a problem as of yet. Mine is taking over the left end of the tank.

[MMathews]

Froggy- I would try spot feeding it with some cyclopeeze or something similar. Mine Stopped opening as much as I would have liked and I gave it (granted it is not as big as yours, which makes spot feeding easier) a spot feeding of cyclopeeze twice a week in addition to the other nutrients I add to the system and after a month or so of spot feeding twice a week it opened again like it used to. :)

[Justin74]

Speaking of feeding, both morphs of FS I have quickly respond to a phyto and roti feedings and quickly puff up. I too try to feed them these twice a week, but at the very least once a week. I feed both phyto and roti's at the same time too, so thats two capfulls of stuff in my 55 a week and sometimes four! This was done very gradually though for any new people reading this ;)

-Justin