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JohnL
01/30/2007, 10:36 AM
This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9113571#post9113571

beatle
01/30/2007, 10:36 AM
I'm planning to upgrade the 2x96w PC setup with parabolic reflectors over my 90. Right now I only have softies and a couple LPS. I'm guessing SPS will likely creep their way into the picture down the road. Will I need a 6x54 kit or will 4x54 suffice? Would three of the 2x54w kits do the trick? This would be $315. The 6x54w Tek kit from Reefgeek is $449. The 6x54w Icecap kit is $609! I know the key to T5 is the individual reflectors, which all of these retrofits have. What makes one worth more than the other?

I know this has probaby been asked before, but I'm not the best at wading through 40 pages of questions. :)

casingbill
01/30/2007, 10:45 AM
and what about the hamilton technologie t5 retros??....their made in America...;)

beatle
01/30/2007, 11:16 AM
I didn't know they existed. I did a search for them and found Aquatic Tech (http://www.aquatictech.com/internet_specials.html) has them on sale until Feb 1st, including bulbs. A 4x54 and a 2x54 would set you back $280.

Steverino
01/30/2007, 11:58 AM
That Aquatech site is hard to navigate. Are the reflectors per bulb, or one for both bulbs? What is shipping on it? Jeesh!

casingbill
01/30/2007, 12:21 PM
Thats a sweet price if they are any good....

FULLY ASSEMBLED HAMILTON T5 HO RETROFIT KITS – ON SALE
Each Retrofit kit comes with 420nm Actinic 03 Blue T5 HO bulbs, True 10K White T5 HO bulbs, Polish Aluminum Mirror Finish Reflector, Moisture proof T5 Sockets, and Remote Electronic Ballast

23” 2 x 24W HO T5 KIT -$81.95
23” 4 x 24W HO T5 KIT -$161.95

35” 2 x 39W HO T5 KIT -$87.95
35” 4 x 39W HO T5 KIT -$173.95

48” 2 x 54W HO T5 KIT -$99.95
48” 4 x 54W HO T5 KIT -$179.95

60” 2 x 80W HO T5 KIT -$112.95
60” 4 x 80W HO T5 KIT -$191.95

casingbill
01/30/2007, 12:28 PM
and we all know, polish aluminum is the best.....:)

smbrown15
01/30/2007, 12:51 PM
Thanks Grim for the suggestion. I'll try and locate a UVL Super Actinic and give it a try!

The Grim Reefer
01/30/2007, 01:41 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9113573#post9113573 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by beatle
I'm planning to upgrade the 2x96w PC setup with parabolic reflectors over my 90. Right now I only have softies and a couple LPS. I'm guessing SPS will likely creep their way into the picture down the road. Will I need a 6x54 kit or will 4x54 suffice? Would three of the 2x54w kits do the trick? This would be $315. The 6x54w Tek kit from Reefgeek is $449. The 6x54w Icecap kit is $609! I know the key to T5 is the individual reflectors, which all of these retrofits have. What makes one worth more than the other?

I know this has probaby been asked before, but I'm not the best at wading through 40 pages of questions. :)

Grab a 6 lamp retro from reefgeek but spend the 12 bux to upgrade to Ice Cap reflectors. That includes your choice of the best lamps out there, ATI, Giesemann, UVL.

The Grim Reefer
01/30/2007, 01:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9114496#post9114496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by casingbill
and we all know, polish aluminum is the best.....:)

Hamilton's site doesn't show T5 fixtures yet. Base on the crappy esign of some of their halide fixture's "reflectors" I wouldn't be too hopeful about the T5 units. Based on the discription I would say it is a single flat reflector.

casingbill
01/30/2007, 01:59 PM
so basically...you get what you pay for.....:)

beatle
01/30/2007, 03:52 PM
Ok, Hamilton is out. I'm still curious as to why the kit from ReefGeek is so much more than Hello Lights. Are the specific bulbs really worth the extra $134?

The Grim Reefer
01/30/2007, 04:20 PM
For 6 lamps? yes.

casingbill
01/30/2007, 06:33 PM
grim and hahn....after stopping into a local lfs, I noticed they the the pfo solaris led setup on one of their tanks. I put my hand under them to feel the heat and obviously it was almost nothing. This brought up the heating issue with other lighting. I must have been totally wrong, but I was under the misconception that T5 lighting was much cooler than anything else. The T5 bulbs were 200 degrees!!!

I've been worried about heat, trying to avoid a chiller when I setup my 75g. T5's won't help me.......:(

The Grim Reefer
01/30/2007, 06:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9117511#post9117511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by casingbill
grim and hahn....after stopping into a local lfs, I noticed they the the pfo solaris led setup on one of their tanks. I put my hand under them to feel the heat and obviously it was almost nothing. This brought up the heating issue with other lighting. I must have been totally wrong, but I was under the misconception that T5 lighting was much cooler than anything else. The T5 bulbs were 200 degrees!!!

I've been worried about heat, trying to avoid a chiller when I setup my 75g. T5's won't help me.......:(

A good T5 fixture wont add as much heat as other conventional lighting. With fans running they will probably run around 100 degrees. LED's are not conventional lighting. If you are concerned about heat an have the $$$ the LED's are a good option.

casingbill
01/30/2007, 06:59 PM
I definatley don't have the money for the led's. But if MH's are set say 12" above the water and T5's are only 2-3", how much of a difference is there in heat transfer. I know it would depend on wattage, but 6 T5's covering the whole top of the tank may make the heat of the 2 MH's. Right?

The Grim Reefer
01/30/2007, 07:12 PM
I had 6 overdriven 80 watt T5's in my 125. Both ballasts were mounted in the canopy. Even with the glass lids on the tank the temp never got above 81 degrees with 2 fans running. That was 606 watts of lighting mounted in a canopy about 3 1/2 inches above the tank.

A halide fixture with 3x250 watt DE's and 2 54 watt T5's all behind the UV Shield about 7" above the tank woul drive the temp to 82 on warmer days. Not bad but could you imagine what would happen if they were in an enclosed canopy like the T5 were?

By the way, the T5's put 145 UMOL's of PAR to the sandbed, the 14K halides did 95:)

casingbill
01/30/2007, 07:58 PM
grim....thx....i just needed more confirmation

hahnmeister
01/30/2007, 08:36 PM
Worried about heat? FANS BABY, JUST FANS. They are all you need. 90 degrees in the room and the tanks are just above 80... thanks to evaporative cooling. Thats all.

As for the Hamiltons, http://www.hamiltontechnology.com/shop/index.php?task=show&cat=All+T5+HO+Retrofit+Kits

They look like a single flat crappy reflector.

As for the PFO LEDs... sure it makes less heat... it also makes less light... less than a 250wattDE 20,000K XM... the crappiest output 250wattDE around.

casingbill
01/30/2007, 08:38 PM
hamiltons are out...for sure.

ultra solaris is back in.......

word!!

The Grim Reefer
01/30/2007, 08:41 PM
Hahn

Guess what I ordered today?

xxxbadfishxxx
01/30/2007, 08:42 PM
Grim,

i ordered a teklight fixture 4X24watt. I want to protect the bulbs and reflectors from salt spray. Would the lighting be more efficient with the acrylic shield or to place glass over part of the tank that the lighting is suspended over? i would imagine without the lens the bulbs would be cooler, but the glass over the tank might get more salt spray and need to be cleaned every couple of days. What do you think?

thanks,

Jeff

TropTrea
01/31/2007, 07:33 AM
As far as salt spray goes I have this to a be a triple ended sword with basicly no true solution.

1. The glass over the tank.... You have two issues here. First the glass does filter a considerable amount of high frequency light (short wave lenght) plus there is a constant accumilation of salt on the glass that basicly difusses or filters out all the other light. They basicly require loads of cleaning.

2. plastic shield of the light itself. Well plastic does fnot filter out as much light as glass does so you have a slight gain there. How hot your nulbs get can be an issue with plastics though as if someone is overdriving there bulbs you do get a lot heat on the plastic that can cause it to destort, yellow, or even melt. Then again there will be salt deposits on it requiring it to be cleaned regularly.

3. no sheild..... The best answer to not loosing any light. but remembber the closer the lighting is to the tank water surface the greater the amount of salt that will accumilate on the bulbs and reflectors that need to be regularly cleaned. By raising the lighting up higher you reduce the salt deposits however yopu have more loss do to the greater distance between the lights and the actual corals.

I personaly tried all three above. I prefer the third choice keeping all lights at least 8" above the surface seems to minimize salt deposits.

Dennis




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9118908#post9118908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxxbadfishxxx
Grim,

i ordered a teklight fixture 4X24watt. I want to protect the bulbs and reflectors from salt spray. Would the lighting be more efficient with the acrylic shield or to place glass over part of the tank that the lighting is suspended over? i would imagine without the lens the bulbs would be cooler, but the glass over the tank might get more salt spray and need to be cleaned every couple of days. What do you think?

thanks,

Jeff

hahnmeister
01/31/2007, 10:46 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9118878#post9118878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Hahn

Guess what I ordered today?

Being that that is directed at me... Im going to have to guess that you ordered a bunch of Aquascience bulbs, or you sprang for an ultra-solaris (those 5' units are hard to pass up price-wise).

hahnmeister
01/31/2007, 10:54 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9122007#post9122007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
As far as salt spray goes I have this to a be a triple ended sword with basicly no true solution.

1. The glass over the tank.... You have two issues here. First the glass does filter a considerable amount of high frequency light (short wave lenght) plus there is a constant accumilation of salt on the glass that basicly difusses or filters out all the other light. They basicly require loads of cleaning.

2. plastic shield of the light itself. Well plastic does fnot filter out as much light as glass does so you have a slight gain there. How hot your nulbs get can be an issue with plastics though as if someone is overdriving there bulbs you do get a lot heat on the plastic that can cause it to destort, yellow, or even melt. Then again there will be salt deposits on it requiring it to be cleaned regularly.

3. no sheild..... The best answer to not loosing any light. but remembber the closer the lighting is to the tank water surface the greater the amount of salt that will accumilate on the bulbs and reflectors that need to be regularly cleaned. By raising the lighting up higher you reduce the salt deposits however yopu have more loss do to the greater distance between the lights and the actual corals.

I personaly tried all three above. I prefer the third choice keeping all lights at least 8" above the surface seems to minimize salt deposits.

Dennis

Good way to look at it Dennis. let me modify your opinions though slightly.

1. I use full glass covers. The key is that they are 1/4" starphire covers, and according to the PAR meter they block out something like 2 PAR (.05% or something). As for the salt, well... if you have a full glass cover, the humidity will build up on the glass, which is distilled water really, and this keeps things pretty clean FWIW. I clean mine once a month and its nothing serious really... just to wipe off the dust.

2. Plexi is most likely the best solution, like you said though, it can be bad for heat.... or... in the case of my Tek mod... good for heat. The plexi itself blocks out a minimal %age of light... 1% maybe. With my Tek mod, the acrylic actually aids me with cooling though, as it provides a duct that forces air across the bulbs with the use of a cross-flow fan mounted at one end of the fixture.

3. Open fixtures are nice when you can use them, but waterproof endcaps would be high on my list, as well as removable reflectors that are coated. FWIW, I think that the plexi idea is the best, provided you accomidate for the ventilation, as its a whole lot easier to remove and clean a single piece of clear plexi than it is to have to remove every reflector and clean them, as well as the bulbs because they are unprotected.

TropTrea
01/31/2007, 12:00 PM
there is one thing I failed to mention about clear plastics. That is warpage.

My first encounter with was using 1/4" polycarbonate as tank cover on fresh water tanks. I had several goals with it, to reduce jumpers, to conserve the heat of the aquarium water extend the life of my lighing, and to reduce evaporation rates. The results were within 24 hours the polycarbonate warped very badly making it almost useless.

My second attempt was using Acrylic that was 3/8" thick. The warpage factor was still there but drasticly reduced. If basicly worked out on the 24" or shorter tanks but did not work at all on the 48" or longer peices.

The final attempt was using 3/16 Polycarbonate with 1/2 X 1 1/2" polycarbonate ribs added for suport. Finaly I had something that did not even wrap on a 72 lenght.

Dennis



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9123581#post9123581 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
FWIW, I think that the plexi idea is the best, provided you accomidate for the ventilation, as its a whole lot easier to remove and clean a single piece of clear plexi than it is to have to remove every reflector and clean them, as well as the bulbs because they are unprotected.

The Grim Reefer
01/31/2007, 12:38 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9123510#post9123510 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Being that that is directed at me... Im going to have to guess that you ordered a bunch of Aquascience bulbs, or you sprang for an ultra-solaris (those 5' units are hard to pass up price-wise).

Ordered a 6x54. Figure that will be easier to sell once I am done testing but if I can't I have a use for it.

casingbill
01/31/2007, 12:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9124543#post9124543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Ordered a 6x54. Figure that will be easier to sell once I am done testing but if I can't I have a use for it.


I've got dibs!!!...I'm still setting up a 75 and thats what I need....:)

hahnmeister
01/31/2007, 01:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9124160#post9124160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
there is one thing I failed to mention about clear plastics. That is warpage.

My first encounter with was using 1/4" polycarbonate as tank cover on fresh water tanks. I had several goals with it, to reduce jumpers, to conserve the heat of the aquarium water extend the life of my lighing, and to reduce evaporation rates. The results were within 24 hours the polycarbonate warped very badly making it almost useless.

My second attempt was using Acrylic that was 3/8" thick. The warpage factor was still there but drasticly reduced. If basicly worked out on the 24" or shorter tanks but did not work at all on the 48" or longer peices.

The final attempt was using 3/16 Polycarbonate with 1/2 X 1 1/2" polycarbonate ribs added for suport. Finaly I had something that did not even wrap on a 72 lenght.

Dennis

The plexi, if held in a track or bolted on, doesnt warp much at all. There is a slight bowing in the middle, but the addition of fans to the Tek prevents the heat buildup that so many have reported as the cause for massive warping and failure. Look at the ATI units... they use 1/4" thick acrylic it seems without a problem because they have an active thermal solution that keeps the acrylic cooler.

OR, you can do what I did, and get your hands on some special types of heat-resistant acrylic. I used Acrylite® GMS, (249 is also good). Its a simple way to not have to worry.

Take a look here:
http://www.sdplastics.com/acrylit1.html

Many types are made, abrasion & chemical resistance, UV absorbing and UV allowing, UV resistant, heat resistant, etc. The GMS is a mil-spec acrylic used for fighter jet canopies, and these days its not even that expensive by the sheet.

Or, you can do what I did at first and just opt for 1/4" thick Starphire... no warping, and near perfect transmission of light... etc.

jay375
02/01/2007, 04:26 PM
I'm currently upgrading from a 90g with 2x250w MH to a AGA 180.Ive been thinkng about switching to t5 lighting to save on the electric bill. The 180 will start as a FOWLR but Im sure I'll gradually go to a mixed reef. My question is do you think its a good idea to use t5 lighting on such a large tank?If so what lamp combos would you recommend? Also this will be a DIY project. So I'll be using a retro kit. After reading 40+ pages any insight would be helpful.

hahnmeister
02/01/2007, 05:26 PM
For a 180g, you have a few options.

1. twin 3' banks. This gives you total coverage, but it also means double the bulbs... I wouldnt want that, although I know there are people who do it like this. On a 180, you are most likely going to want something in the 8-10 bulb range, so thats 16-20 bulbs when it comes to replace them... not worth it. Aquatinics handles 6' tanks this way, and they are nice fixtures, but that many bulbs!? No thanks.

2. 4' bulbs that are staggered. On a 6' tank, this is pushing it. You will get a bright spot in the middle, but your ends will be left to dwindle a bit with half as much light as over the center.

3. 5' bulbs. You dont even notice the 6" at the ends... it fills in. The best option IMO, but not always the easiest to impliment... until recent. Tek makes 5' reflectors, but Icecap reflectors are really the way to go with retrofits, and they dont have a 5' reflector (unless you get one of those rare deals on the dual 3' reflectors direct from IC where they overlap two 3' reflectors... $$$$!). And add to that the cost of 80 watt ballasts... as 80 watt ballasts dont come in a 2x80 or something like with smaller bulbs... they are expensive, and only run one bulb each. The lower cost alternative is the Icecap 660 in this case, but it overdrives the bulbs to 100watts each, but doesnt boost their output as well as the shorter bulbs... not to mention it can only run 3 of the 5' bulbs then. Oh, and nobody really makes a 5' fixture.

And then Fauna-Marin came to town. Okay, I know I must sound like a broken record at this point, but to me the faunas represent an great, upgradable, modular package. The other thing is price... go to geek and look up the cost of a tek 5' retrofit. Then look up the cost of a faunamarin 5' unit at aquarium obsessed. They cost the same, and both come with bulbs, but the fauna has active cooling built in, better ballasts, better reflectors, and comes in more of a fixture configuration... ready to mount! Need 8 bulbs? Just buy two of the 4x80watt units and place them side by side, thats all. With or without a canopy... your choice.

Also, Ive seen someone said that the ATI fixtures might be lower priced than originally expected (perhaps to compete?). The powermodul by them is expected to be sold by reefgeek, and they are taking pre-orders. I know they have a 8x80watt unit (heck, they have 10 and 12 bulb units if I remember right), and Im sure that would be great for a 180g.

The Grim Reefer
02/01/2007, 06:12 PM
Better ballasts than Ice Cap?:D:D:D Yeah, whatever

hahnmeister
02/01/2007, 11:07 PM
Hey... youve seen what a good high-frequency ballast can do without the need to overdrive.

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 12:17 AM
Where?

hahnmeister
02/02/2007, 12:30 AM
You know... the ATI that you tested...

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 12:35 AM
I have tested a stand alone VS ballast. It provided no more light than the Triad or Dynamic. All were within a few points of each other.

Roland Jacques
02/02/2007, 08:14 AM
Is there a thread where you or others have compared ballast's?

Gim is it true they boot you after 10,000 posts? :rolleyes:

TropTrea
02/02/2007, 09:38 AM
Not necessarly. If you go over 10,000 the check your usage and if it is over 5 messages per day they give you a choice of upgrading to a donating member or they put a restriction on your posting to 1 a day untill you get down to under 5 per day.

I think the upgrade costs like $25.00 per month or $1,000 one time donation.

:rollface:


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9139895#post9139895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
Is there a thread where you or others have compared ballast's?

Gim is it true they boot you after 10,000 posts? :rolleyes: :rollface:

dwdenny
02/02/2007, 10:32 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9140409#post9140409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
Not necessarly. If you go over 10,000 the check your usage and if it is over 5 messages per day they give you a choice of upgrading to a donating member or they put a restriction on your posting to 1 a day untill you get down to under 5 per day.

I think the upgrade costs like $25.00 per month or $1,000 one time donation.

:rollface:


:rollface:

I hope you mean $25 per year!!!

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 11:43 AM
I thought they sold your name and address to some therapists.

I did a test of the Ice Cap, Dynamic and Fulham in the threa T5 ballasts compared. When I did the Triad, VS, and Dynamic the output and power draw were so close I didn't even bother.

Roland Jacques
02/02/2007, 11:45 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9140409#post9140409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TropTrea
Not necessarly. If you go over 10,000 the check your usage and if it is over 5 messages per day they give you a choice of upgrading to a donating member or they put a restriction on your posting to 1 a day untill you get down to under 5 per day.

I think the upgrade costs like $25.00 per month or $1,000 one time donation.

:rollface:


:rollface: The problem with the $25 per month route is they delete all your pervious post, all of them. With the $1000.00 donation your old post stay. :strange:

Roland Jacques
02/02/2007, 11:52 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9141421#post9141421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
I thought they sold your name and address to some therapists.


Nope they do that at 2000.

casingbill
02/02/2007, 12:28 PM
back on topic........:)

I just spoke with greg at reefgeek about the ATI T5's. When I told him that I had a 75, he suggested going with a 4x54w instead of the 6x54w. If I was buying a tek retro, he said to use 6, but with the ati the light output is supposed to be almost 50% brighter. The reflector is also supposed to be much better.

Any thoughts?

goreefer
02/02/2007, 12:47 PM
If RC starts charging the Grim I will donate to the cause!
We can't loose him.

casingbill
02/02/2007, 01:10 PM
I'll paint "save grim" on my water tower!!

casingbill
02/02/2007, 01:34 PM
from greg@reefgeek

I don't have a firm time-frame yet, but I think we are looking at late February and more likely probably sometime in mid to late March before we'll have the ATI Powermodules available for purchase. Below is the approximate pricing on the 48" units. For a limited time the prices below include your choice of T5 bulbs. If you are interested in a fixture I would recommend giving us a call toll-free at 866-295-9230 and getting on the pre-order list as I expect the fixtures to sell out quickly once they arrive.

ATI 48" Powermodule: 4-54W T5 HO Fluorescents ~ $489.00
ATI 48" Powermodule: 6-54W T5 HO Fluorescents ~ $719.00
ATI 48" Powermodule: 8-54W T5 HO Fluorescents ~ $929.00

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 02:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9142030#post9142030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goreefer
If RC starts charging the Grim I will donate to the cause!
We can't loose him.

You mean again :D

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 02:52 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9141847#post9141847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by casingbill
back on topic........:)

I just spoke with greg at reefgeek about the ATI T5's. When I told him that I had a 75, he suggested going with a 4x54w instead of the 6x54w. If I was buying a tek retro, he said to use 6, but with the ati the light output is supposed to be almost 50% brighter. The reflector is also supposed to be much better.

Any thoughts?

I personally like the idea of 6 lamps simply for the sake of being able to use a better mix but if the 54 watt fixture performs like the 39 4 would be plenty PAR wise.

sjm817
02/02/2007, 02:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9142990#post9142990 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
You mean again :D
Well, Super Bowl Sunday is in a couple of days :D

RE: the 180G T5 setup, I went with the IC retro and it has worked out fine. I got 6 bulbs and only need 2 ballasts to run them. I also got the doubled up IC reflectors direct from Ice Cap. $13 a piece is a good deal.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_0900.jpg

TropTrea
02/02/2007, 03:03 PM
Very seriously on another board (not reef related) they set up a membership program. It was basicly based on tiers and the more you used the board (posted) the more they wanted you to pay.

You could be a free member up to 5 post per week, then paid like $25.00 per year to beallowd 20 post a week. As you paid more you were allowed more posts.

If you exceeded you post limit for the week it just refused your post and gave you a message that you could not post till the following Monday unless you upgrade your membership. Then they gave you an option to pay through pay pals..

You could read the treads all you wanted for free. The thing is they did have operating costs, no advertisers, and needed to pay the bills somehow.

Now this makes me wonder what are the benifits here for paying members on different levels?

Dennis




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9142990#post9142990 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
You mean again :D

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 03:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9143015#post9143015 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Well, Super Bowl Sunday is in a couple of days :D

RE: the 180G T5 setup, I went with the IC retro and it has worked out fine. I got 6 bulbs and only need 2 ballasts to run them. I also got the doubled up IC reflectors direct from Ice Cap. $13 a piece is a good deal.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_0900.jpg

That puuurrrdy

goreefer
02/02/2007, 03:15 PM
Not to take this GREAT Thread to a different subject, but there is only one paid level on RC.
I pay the $24 so that I can support threads like this one and help keep the board alive. It's a very small amount to pay for the benefits that I receive.
And besides, I need the spell checker!!!!

Keep up the great work Grim and Hahn.

Roland Jacques
02/02/2007, 03:26 PM
Posts: 10000:fish2: :celeb3: :celeb1: :celeb2: :celeb3:

Thanks for all the good info

sjm817
02/02/2007, 03:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9143177#post9143177 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
That puuurrrdy
I'll take a compliment from the T5 master!

hahnmeister
02/02/2007, 04:57 PM
Its kinda weird that a member like Grim... perhaps one of the main ATTRACTIONS for a site like RC, would have to pay. It would be similar to Sanjay having to pay to give a lecture...lol.

ykwan
02/02/2007, 05:33 PM
Hi,

Im new to the hobby and planning on starting a 55 g reef aquarium im thinking in using t5 so would like to know which brand and what type of configuratoin like what types of bulbs. Im living in the dominican republic so i still dont know to what type of corals i will have access to but would like a configuration in which i could grow almost anything.

I was lookin at the tek retro fits and the IC retro fits would like to know there diferrences or is there any other retrofit you would suggest.

Thanks in Advance
Regards,

YK

hahnmeister
02/02/2007, 05:55 PM
Anything? Well, I think a 6 bulb unit would be best then... 4 could b enough, but if you want to grow anything, the versatility of the extra 2 bulbs could come in handy.

You could go Sunlight Supply Tek. Normally, Im not a fan because of the heat buildup problems, but a simple $30 mod with the acrylic sheild and a cross flow fan kills two birds with one stone... the heat buildup and the easily stained reflectors.

Otherwise, for better engineered units, you have the Aquatinics, ATI, and Fauna-Marin. ALl make good fixtures that will suit you... from the ultra-sleek ATI powermodul at reefgeek.com, to the modular/configurable Fauna-Marin, to the classic Aquatinics.

casingbill
02/02/2007, 06:40 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9143003#post9143003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
I personally like the idea of 6 lamps simply for the sake of being able to use a better mix but if the 54 watt fixture performs like the 39 4 would be plenty PAR wise.

but would 6 overpower the tank?

jjoos99
02/02/2007, 06:49 PM
Will the sylvania qtp 2X54t5ho ballast fire a 80 watt bulb? I saw some used and was wondering if it would work for my 80 watt setup?
Thanks
Jeff

ykwan
02/02/2007, 07:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9144428#post9144428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Anything? Well, I think a 6 bulb unit would be best then... 4 could b enough, but if you want to grow anything, the versatility of the extra 2 bulbs could come in handy.

You could go Sunlight Supply Tek. Normally, Im not a fan because of the heat buildup problems, but a simple $30 mod with the acrylic sheild and a cross flow fan kills two birds with one stone... the heat buildup and the easily stained reflectors.

Otherwise, for better engineered units, you have the Aquatinics, ATI, and Fauna-Marin. ALl make good fixtures that will suit you... from the ultra-sleek ATI powermodul at reefgeek.com, to the modular/configurable Fauna-Marin, to the classic Aquatinics.

I didnt see any ati fixtures in reefgeek. BTW if i use fixtures will i still be able to put it into a canopy? which is the most economical choice i have?

thanks for your help

Roland Jacques
02/02/2007, 08:11 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9144860#post9144860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjoos99
Will the sylvania qtp 2X54t5ho ballast fire a 80 watt bulb? I saw some used and was wondering if it would work for my 80 watt setup?
Thanks
Jeff while id think they would light 80watts lamps, i dont think they give any more than 54 watts output. and if you were talking about the DALI ballasts that I listed today, they were a sold a short while ago.

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 08:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9144785#post9144785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by casingbill
but would 6 overpower the tank?

No, I have a friend running 6 over a 75 and 4 are overdriven.

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 08:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9145224#post9145224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ykwan
I didnt see any ati fixtures in reefgeek. BTW if i use fixtures will i still be able to put it into a canopy? which is the most economical choice i have?

thanks for your help

If you have a canopy just get a standard retro from reefgeek upgrade to IC reflectors.

casingbill
02/02/2007, 08:25 PM
10002????...................:)

Thx Grim!

toasty23
02/02/2007, 10:16 PM
hey grim
im setting up my 29gal reef. i would like to get some lights what would you recommend in lighting retro for all types of corals. looking to get the best bang for the buck.

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 10:19 PM
Premium Aquatics sells Finnex T5's that would work on a smaller tank. I would probably dump the lamps that come with the fixture pretty soon but the price is righ for a 4 lamp unit.

toasty23
02/02/2007, 10:30 PM
would i be able to keep a clam or a BTA?

The Grim Reefer
02/02/2007, 10:44 PM
Yes but use good lamps.

toasty23
02/02/2007, 10:47 PM
thank you grim

hahnmeister
02/02/2007, 11:38 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9145224#post9145224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ykwan
I didnt see any ati fixtures in reefgeek. BTW if i use fixtures will i still be able to put it into a canopy? which is the most economical choice i have?

thanks for your help

The ATI fixtures are anticipated to arrive in late feb/early march. You can order them by phone only at this point.

REMF
02/03/2007, 12:09 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9142990#post9142990 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
You mean again :D

HAHA but I know where to find you.:D

mrbncal
02/03/2007, 02:03 AM
Hi Mr. Grim- wondered if i could get your thoughts on the following light setup for a 75 gallon with anemones and sps . currently running 150 DE MH with no supplemental actinic. Looking to get away from heat issues. anyway here is what i found:

one -54W Pure Actinic Giesemann PowerChrome Bulb
two -54W Aquablue Plus 11K Giesemann PowerChrome Bulb
one -54W Midday 6000K Giesemann PowerChrome Bulb
T5 Tek Retro Kit 48in- 4 x 54w
- Reflector Upgrade IceCap SLR T5 Reflectors

I found this on a do it ourself website. seems like a good deal. only thing i'm not sure of is the ballast. i'm kind of an icecap fan but the ballast with this are not IC. i would appreciate your 2cents.

MstgKillr
02/03/2007, 09:05 AM
Mr. Grim,

Please help me choose the lighting for my new tank. I will have a little bit of everything in the tank including clams and sps.

What lighting would you recomend for a 120 Gallon Oceaninc Tech Series? I will be using a canopy. I also do not want to run a chiller if possible. A/C is always set at 75*

I was thinking of the 48" Solaris 20k LED

or

T5's

What would be the best setup for the T5? How many lights? Which ones from front to back?

Please help me out .

Thanks.

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 10:15 AM
Personally I would do 6 lamps on a 75.

The pure actinic is nice but get a UVL Super Actinic if avalable.
Instead of 2 aquablues which are nearly white use one aquablue and one Actinic Plus which is a 20K blue color.

As long as the ballast is a T5 ballast you will be fine. If you decide to go 6 lamps add a Actinic Plus and Aquablue to the mix.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9147697#post9147697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrbncal
Hi Mr. Grim- wondered if i could get your thoughts on the following light setup for a 75 gallon with anemones and sps . currently running 150 DE MH with no supplemental actinic. Looking to get away from heat issues. anyway here is what i found:

one -54W Pure Actinic Giesemann PowerChrome Bulb
two -54W Aquablue Plus 11K Giesemann PowerChrome Bulb
one -54W Midday 6000K Giesemann PowerChrome Bulb
T5 Tek Retro Kit 48in- 4 x 54w
- Reflector Upgrade IceCap SLR T5 Reflectors

I found this on a do it ourself website. seems like a good deal. only thing i'm not sure of is the ballast. i'm kind of an icecap fan but the ballast with this are not IC. i would appreciate your 2cents.

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 10:25 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9148504#post9148504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MstgKillr
Mr. Grim,

Please help me choose the lighting for my new tank. I will have a little bit of everything in the tank including clams and sps.

What lighting would you recomend for a 120 Gallon Oceaninc Tech Series? I will be using a canopy. I also do not want to run a chiller if possible. A/C is always set at 75*

I was thinking of the 48" Solaris 20k LED

or

T5's

What would be the best setup for the T5? How many lights? Which ones from front to back?

Please help me out .

Thanks.

I personally think the jury is still out on the LED systems. If you are in a postition to give them a shot go for it, on paper they should work.

For T5's I would run a 4 lamp Ice Cap system and a standard 4 lamp retro upgraded to IC reflectors only. For lamps I would do this

Front
Blue Plus
UVL Super Actinic
UVL Aquasun (Ice Cap Ballast)
Aquablue (IC Ballast)
GE 3000K (IC Ballast)
Blue Plus (IC Ballast)
Super Actinic
Aquablue

babyjess210
02/03/2007, 12:38 PM
Grim
Should i wait for the tek 2 reflector or Ice cap? Reefgeeks said 2 weeks maybe for the tek 2 and i'm ready to set up my 75 gal.
Thanks
kenny

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 12:54 PM
Either will do fine.

slant77
02/03/2007, 01:42 PM
i have a 90 gl with a 4 bulb tek light about 70% sps i was thinking about upgrading to a 6x54 ati fixture i am also thinking about changing to a 120 48x24x24. would the 6x54 on the 120 be enough to handle sps. thanks

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 02:45 PM
The 6x54 should be fine on a 120 as long as you aren't putting sps on the sandbed.

highquality
02/03/2007, 03:04 PM
Im going to use T5 supplement for the first time. I use two 250 halide and want to put two 36inch t5 to supplement blue. I was going to get this T5 retro from sunlight, that comes with a worhorse 5 ballst it looks like. will this be fine for what im trying to do. I use 20k halide but want to try whiter bulb with t5 supplement.

slant77
02/03/2007, 03:15 PM
thanks

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 04:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9150577#post9150577 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by highquality
Im going to use T5 supplement for the first time. I use two 250 halide and want to put two 36inch t5 to supplement blue. I was going to get this T5 retro from sunlight, that comes with a worhorse 5 ballst it looks like. will this be fine for what im trying to do. I use 20k halide but want to try whiter bulb with t5 supplement.

Use a couple Aquablue T5's.

highquality
02/03/2007, 04:59 PM
Is the workhorse 5 ballast ok? what is meant when you guys say a overdriven ballast? Is that needed in my case?

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 05:07 PM
You dont need to overdrive the lamps. I dont like the WH ballasts. If you get a retro through reefgeek they plan on providing the Triad ballasts still.

toasty23
02/03/2007, 07:25 PM
hey grim would this be better than the finnex, do i dont have to replace the bulbs? what would you recommend for bulbs for my 29gal. or is the finnex better than i would replace the bulbs right away or can i wait a while? What would be your bulb combination choice?

thanks
antonio

Mr D smack
02/03/2007, 10:26 PM
has anyone tried using cat 5 wire for a T5 retro kit?

Mr D smack
02/03/2007, 10:26 PM
has anyone tried using cat 5 wire for a T5 retro kit?

Mr D smack
02/03/2007, 10:26 PM
has anyone tried using cat 5 wire for a T5 retro kit?

Mr D smack
02/03/2007, 10:26 PM
has anyone tried using cat 5 wire for a T5 retro kit?

Mr D smack
02/03/2007, 10:26 PM
has anyone tried using cat 5 wire for a T5 retro kit?

Mr D smack
02/03/2007, 10:28 PM
Sorry for the dup replies. My computer kepp lagging.

fast94m
02/03/2007, 11:01 PM
Can you just run 6 bulbs on say a 8 bulb ati fixture safely? will this overdrive the 6 bulbs? The reason i ask is i read in one of these pages that 8 bulbs will overcover a 75g tank but be perfect for a 120g tank which i may upgrade to in the future.

slant77
02/03/2007, 11:05 PM
IF i was to run an 8 bulb ati fixture over the 120 would that be to bright on the bottom for zoos also which bulbs would you run. Sorry for the extra Questions i just read threw it all and seem to be less sure of what is best now. thanks

mrcrab
02/03/2007, 11:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9153436#post9153436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr D smack
Sorry for the dup replies. My computer kepp lagging.

The KING of understatement! :lol:

I thought my computer was possessed with all the notices. :bigeyes:

The Grim Reefer
02/03/2007, 11:16 PM
Toasty, the DIY kit is better than the Finnex. I would run a Blue Plus, Actinic, Daylight or sun and 1 Aquablue.

Never tried the wire.

The ATI fixture should have lamps paired so you can run 2,4,6 or 8 lamps.

Icefire
02/04/2007, 02:04 AM
What's up with the new recommandation of the GE3000K in the last few pages? There is no discution about it and before you were recommanding the 6500K....?

I was planning:

2x GE 6500 (keep the cost down + bright white)
1x UVL Super Actinic R (UV Lighting 36" 39w T5 Super Blue Actinic Lamp ???)
1x Aqua Science 22000K blue (bring some blue for the 6500K)

I have access at the full line of:

Aqua Science T5 Lamps
ATI
Coralvue
UV Lighting

Your opinion?

The Grim Reefer
02/04/2007, 02:31 AM
I am not sure about the Aquascience lamps yet. They are made by Narva which also makes Giesemanns. I like the GE 30000K lamp or the UVL Aquasun because they have some red in the output. I would try a UVL Aquasun, UVL Super Actinic, ATI Aquablue and ATI Blue Plus. SHould be a 14K look.

GE changed their 6500K so it has no more PAR than the Aquablue.

Icefire
02/04/2007, 02:36 AM
GE 3000K is more warm light? Still good PAR?
Do you have a PAR list by bulb maker?

The Grim Reefer
02/04/2007, 02:41 AM
The GE 3000K had a little more PAR than the 6500K, I probably wouldn't try it with just 4 lamps.

ATI

Sun Pro 357
Aquablue 336
Blue Plus 311
Actinic 137

D&D/Giesemann

Midday 325
Aquablue 324
Actinic Plus 264
Pure Actinic 157

UVL

Aqua sun 345
Actinic White 293
Super Actinic 210

AquaZ

Sun Pro 285
Ocean Pro 323
Blue Pro 266

Helios

Daylight 309
Super Blue 225

Current Sun Paq

Daylight 10K 272
Blue 252

GE Daylight 340

Icefire
02/04/2007, 02:50 AM
That is per lamp or 4x54w?

Well GE 6500K is still a lot more cost effective @ 50% of the price.

It would be nice to have a website with picture of a tank with many combination of bulb.

The Grim Reefer
02/04/2007, 02:54 AM
Per lamp.

Doing tank pictures would be rough. Too many differnt combinations of lamps. he GE aint bad, just better options IMO. Color is such a personal taste thing its hard to say, you may like the GE better.

Icefire
02/04/2007, 03:01 AM
it's me or a single 54w lamp have more PAR than half the 250w halide tested here? http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm

Unreal... Look like I could just buy 2 bulb to start with for softys/maybe LPS

hahnmeister
02/04/2007, 03:16 AM
PAR is a relative number. Grims numbers are based on a bulb at a certain distance. So the numbers you get from different bulbs will depend on the distance, as well as the use, or non-use of a reflector. A 250wattDE halide will put out 3000+ within 3" of the bulb, and maybe only 200 at 18" away w/o a reflector... so its all relative, not absolute.

Icefire
02/04/2007, 03:27 AM
The quantum sensor was place 8” below the center of the arc tube.

(250w halide testing, no reflector)
The best was 500-600 while most were averaging 300

Still, most halide are placed quite high in our tanks compared to T5.

If 2-3x 54W give the same as a 250W at NORMAL operating distance, with/WO reflector, no need for 4-6 bulb stacked on regular tank. 6x54W on a 4 feet 90G would be over-kill, like placing 2x 400W halides..

TonyTheTiger
02/04/2007, 12:04 PM
Grim,

I have a 90 gallon that I am looking to add T5 lighting to. I was looking at the Aqua Medic Oceanlight T5 Fixture either 6 or 8 bulbs. Would this light be sufficient enough to run some sps and clams? I want a mostly softie tank with some variety of sps and clams. If not what would you recommend that wont break the bank? My wife has me on a budget and the Aqua medic falls in that budget. I don't think that the aqua medic has individual reflectors. . Anyhelp would be great!
Thanks

TonyTheTiger
02/04/2007, 12:04 PM
Grim,

I have a 90 gallon that I am looking to add T5 lighting to. I was looking at the Aqua Medic Oceanlight T5 Fixture either 6 or 8 bulbs. Would this light be sufficient enough to run some sps and clams? I want a mostly softie tank with some variety of sps and clams. If not what would you recommend that wont break the bank? My wife has me on a budget and the Aqua medic falls in that budget. I don't think that the aqua medic has individual reflectors. . Anyhelp would be great!
Thanks



http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=979

The Grim Reefer
02/04/2007, 12:47 PM
For the price I would get the Tek or better yet the Aquactinic.

TonyTheTiger
02/04/2007, 01:08 PM
Ok How many bulbs should I run with either the tek or aquactinic?

The Grim Reefer
02/04/2007, 01:45 PM
6 for the Tek, 5 for the aquactinics. The aquactinics has better reflectors and a cooling fan which helps but they use Workhorse ballasts which take a tad away. Still about 30% more output than the Tek.

yeldarbj
02/04/2007, 02:48 PM
Grim,

I appreciate all the great info that you have dispersed in this thread and others. I've been following along and looked up on Sunlight Supply's website. It looks like they offer 2 different T5 retro kits:

1) T5 Retro-Fit Kit with Tek II slr's and a WorkHorse Ballast
2) T5 Tek Retro System with Tek slr's and "major brand" ballast

I know you've mentioned that you don't like the WH ballast. Are you better off with kit #2 and upgrade to IceCap slr's? In your opinion is it worth it just to go up to the IceCap retro?

Any opinion on the Dynamic Ballast (sold by Aquarium Specialty - Distributed and Warranted by IceCap for three years)?

I'm looking to add a 2x39 T5 to my 65g tank with my current 2x96w PC's, with the idea that I would eventually remove the PC's for another 2x39 or 3x39 T5 setup.

jdellman
02/04/2007, 03:13 PM
Now thate I have decided on the Ultra Solaris 48" 6 x 54, the only remaining decision is which bulbs to order with it.

What do you experts recommend? And to prevent the future post, what order would you put them in?

Thanks again for all the advice.

glenik
02/04/2007, 03:18 PM
Alright Grim, I'm convinced. I'm going to order the Aquactinics 5x54 for my 72 gallon bowfront. I am at a complete loss as to what bulbs to get and what order to put them in. Would you be so kind as to make a reccomendation?

casingbill
02/04/2007, 04:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9157978#post9157978 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdellman
Now thate I have decided on the Ultra Solaris 48" 6 x 54, the only remaining decision is which bulbs to order with it.

What do you experts recommend? And to prevent the future post, what order would you put them in?

Thanks again for all the advice.

I was convinced I was going to buy the ultra solaris. That was after I was convinced I was going with the tek retros. Now I'm convinced I'm going to wait for the ATI since its only a couple bucks more.....:D

The Grim Reefer
02/04/2007, 04:56 PM
Once reefgeek gets the new reflectors they will be doing retros with the right ballasts and the new style reflectors. I have no idea if the SLS new style reflector will be better than Ice Caps or not. The Dynamic ballasts seem to be good.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9157821#post9157821 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yeldarbj
Grim,

I appreciate all the great info that you have dispersed in this thread and others. I've been following along and looked up on Sunlight Supply's website. It looks like they offer 2 different T5 retro kits:

1) T5 Retro-Fit Kit with Tek II slr's and a WorkHorse Ballast
2) T5 Tek Retro System with Tek slr's and "major brand" ballast

I know you've mentioned that you don't like the WH ballast. Are you better off with kit #2 and upgrade to IceCap slr's? In your opinion is it worth it just to go up to the IceCap retro?

Any opinion on the Dynamic Ballast (sold by Aquarium Specialty - Distributed and Warranted by IceCap for three years)?

I'm looking to add a 2x39 T5 to my 65g tank with my current 2x96w PC's, with the idea that I would eventually remove the PC's for another 2x39 or 3x39 T5 setup.

Icefire
02/04/2007, 06:40 PM
Grim, how did you test each lamp?
Distance, with/without reflector?

Grey Reefer
02/04/2007, 07:23 PM
Hey Grim and hanh, have either of you heard of any plans for H.O. T5 shorter than 24 inches ? It would be nice to light smaller tanks with H.O. T5.

hahnmeister
02/04/2007, 07:46 PM
No plans as of yet, but I have heard of another bulb that may generate some buzz in reefing in years to come (besides LEDs). Its called an induction lamp, and it consists of a circular ring of a tube... so its not exactly a long narrow lamp like a PC, but at least there is some space in the middle of the 'o' so hopes for a nice reflector are not lost.

The bulb works by creating a magnetic flow within the bulb itself, and contains NO actual electrodes inside the bulb. Its 100% gas and phosphors... so no sputtering startup or black rings. Its longevity is phenominal while having a very low heat signature thanks to the lack of actual electrodes in the lamp itself. Current versions are in the 75 lumens/watt range, but I have it on good authority that ones with 90-100 lumens/watt are in the works.

This would allow for little circular reflectors to be developed that would easily fit over a nano, and the low heat output would also be a particular bonius.

Another thing to keep in mind with these types of lamps is that they can have some very long-lived phosphors, as no electric arc in the typical sense is actually passed through the tube itself. So phosphors that are particularly delicate (like UV and actinic) are much longer lived in this package. Imagine an actinic bulb that lasts 5 years... kinda cool, no? Regular ones sare expected to last 20 years. The CRI of these bulbs is also very high... higher than halides even.

Im not so sure this technology will find its way into the aquarium trade, but the potential is there. In 3 years though, I see LED's gaining popularity as production examples of 130-150lumen/watt units come out, prices plunge, and lenses develop further.

hahnmeister
02/04/2007, 07:51 PM
dp

TropTrea
02/05/2007, 08:03 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9159679#post9159679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister


Another thing to keep in mind with these types of lamps is that they can have some very long-lived phosphors, as no electric arc in the typical sense is actually passed through the tube itself. So phosphors that are particularly delicate (like UV and actinic) are much longer lived in this package. Imagine an actinic bulb that lasts 5 years... kinda cool, no? Regular ones sare expected to last 20 years. The CRI of these bulbs is also very high... higher than halides even.

Well the highest CRI's that I had seen are still the old fashoioned triple phoshate florsecent tubes. Some of the Hide CRI numbers I have seen were actually awful.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9159679#post9159679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister

Im not so sure this technology will find its way into the aquarium trade, but the potential is there. In 3 years though, I see LED's gaining popularity as production examples of 130-150lumen/watt units come out, prices plunge, and lenses develop further.

Right now I thing the only reason LED fixture prices are so high is that they are trying to get back some of there initial R and D costs with a product that has not yet reached acceptance at a level where they have a considerable market share.

It is possible today to build a LED headlamp for almost any car at half the cost of most conventional headlamps. You can take a lighting fixture with 24 high intensity LED's costing under $1.00 each and realy get a powerful light fixture. But if your selling them at 100 units a month and you had millions invested in R and D to cover the investment in one year you need to add on over $800 per light fixture, and if want to break even in 7 years your adding on 120 per fixture. Then remember these companies are in business to make money rather than just make customer happy.

Now your looking at another new technology. So the questions arises if the aquarium industry is big enough for some company to invest in the R and D of this and still make a profit. If it does fan out how much will it reduce there profits from there existing product lines? How much will they need to spend on advertisement to convince the customer to switch over. How long will they have to break even before some newer technology takes over?

Lets just look back only a few years. Remember when Compacts first hit the aquarium industry. It was not unusual to spend $500 on a fixture with 2-55 watt bulbs. It was promoted and looked like the lighting of the future. Yet today even after the pricing dropped it has dropped in popularity and effeciency compared to many of the other options out there.

Dennis

TropTrea
02/05/2007, 08:32 AM
The big thing here is that if want to make any kind of comparison you cannot compare appels to oranges. One persons data can be completly different on what might blindly appear like the same test when compared to another individuals.

The only way to have an accurate comparison is when only one variable is changed between the different bulbs. Such simple things as what light meter was used (even if they both are the same brand) can change the compatision numbers.

And yes distance from is going to extremly change your numbers. Lets look at Jon's comparison on a bulb that puts out 3000 at 3", this same bulb will put out 750 at 6", 187.5 at 12", and 46.875 at 24", not considering the reflector gain. So you can see if persons A's readings are at 8" and person b's reading are at 9" you can have already a 27% difference in readings. Now add another 15% for difference between two meters, and another 50% for the other 30 unknown variable that might exist. Now were not ev en close to apples and oranges but more like straberries to spinich.

Dennis


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9154746#post9154746 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
PAR is a relative number. Grims numbers are based on a bulb at a certain distance. So the numbers you get from different bulbs will depend on the distance, as well as the use, or non-use of a reflector. A 250wattDE halide will put out 3000+ within 3" of the bulb, and maybe only 200 at 18" away w/o a reflector... so its all relative, not absolute.

RichConley
02/05/2007, 01:19 PM
Hahn/Grim

Got an oddball question for you kids. (dont I always?)

Anyways, I've got a bunch of sylvania QTP 2x54w ballasts sitting around. I've got a 3' tank. I'm sure you see the issue. What would happen if I was to run 39w bulbs on 54w ballasts? Would i just overdrive them a bunch, or would I fry the bulbs? I'd like to get some use out of this stuff, and I really dont feel like letting them sit around for the year or two until I can get myself a four footer.

The Grim Reefer
02/05/2007, 01:44 PM
54 watt ballasts should run the 39 watt lamps. They may or may not overdrive them. 15 watts would be a very small amound of overdrive so I wouln;t worry about it.

hahnmeister
02/05/2007, 01:49 PM
Call 978-750-2322, ask for Rob Hamerstrom, an ECS Applications Engineer at Sylvania. He will know.

TropTrea
02/05/2007, 02:58 PM
I do not think it is a matter of overdriving or underdriving in this case. If you understood how florescent ballasts and florescent light bulbs work it is more of an issue with the starting sequence. If the ballast needs more than a 39 watts flow through the bulb to detect that it is lite then it will either remain in the starting sequence or keep trying to restart and possibly burn out the bulb without lighting it. This depends greatly on the design of the particular ballast you are using. However most ballasts have no problem handling lower wattage bulbs but can run into problems when a higher wattage bulb or bulbs are used. A transformer is often used to maintain the voltage through the tubes once they are lite and if that transformer is rated for say 54 watts and the actual flow is 79 watts (2 39 watt bulbs) then the transformer can overheat or produce less voltage than is required to properly light the tubes. With electronic ballasts these issues are more sensative than in the older tar type ballasts.




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9164804#post9164804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Hahn/Grim

Got an oddball question for you kids. (dont I always?)

Anyways, I've got a bunch of sylvania QTP 2x54w ballasts sitting around. I've got a 3' tank. I'm sure you see the issue. What would happen if I was to run 39w bulbs on 54w ballasts? Would i just overdrive them a bunch, or would I fry the bulbs? I'd like to get some use out of this stuff, and I really dont feel like letting them sit around for the year or two until I can get myself a four footer.

RichConley
02/05/2007, 03:30 PM
TropTea, I've got a bunch of these QTP ballasts sitting aroudn, so it'd be a 39w bulb in each 54w slot, so pulling significantly less wattage.

hahnmeister
02/05/2007, 03:34 PM
Just call the freakin' engineer. I have a feeling he will say you can use 39s on the 54, just like the triads (or are they advance?) that are in my Tek light, but you dont really know unless you call.

The Grim Reefer
02/05/2007, 04:45 PM
The Engineer might not be able to tell you that. I sure as hell wouldn't. Legal issues,

hahnmeister
02/05/2007, 07:28 PM
Dont be so sure... it might be part of the design.

The Grim Reefer
02/05/2007, 08:08 PM
If it were part of the design it would be labeled as such.

Roland Jacques
02/05/2007, 08:35 PM
Rich,
ill call, i have some QTP DALI ballast that im curious about myself.

whats your ballast # ?

TropTrea
im wondering how program start or instant start makes a different
when using on a lower watts lamps

hahnmeister
02/05/2007, 10:22 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9168113#post9168113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
If it were part of the design it would be labeled as such.

nah, they like to be a little sneaky when it comes to this I have learned. They wont list it on their website, but when you compare model numbers, you see whats going on. Its so that distributors can limit the number of SKUs they have to order. For instance, a 2x54wattT5HO can also be wired to run just one bulb. You would think its cheaper to make a 1X54watt ballast, but no, its not. This indicates that the electronic ballasts have to have some sort of built in resistance detection or bulb sensing technology (as an electronic ballast should). You have to admit as well, 2x54wattT5 ballasts ARE the cheapest ballast out there as well because they are the most common. 2x39 and 2x24 watt ballasts would in effect cost more if made seperate because of their lower market demand. By making one ballast to handle them all, but not saying it, you have cut your costs, made distribution easier, etc. But letting every consumer know that their screwdriver can also be used as a prybar eliminates the possibility of selling someone a prybar AND a screwdriver. Know what I mean?

The Grim Reefer
02/05/2007, 11:05 PM
Look up product liability laws (wife has spent the last 20 years working for a defence law firm) That is why a decent company wont let that info out. If you were to use a 54 watt ballast in a 39 watt system because the company said it was OK (even if it really is) and anything went wrong, for whatever reason they would be at a trial lawyer's mercy. Check out a bag a marshmellows sometime. Some have a warning label about the hazzards of a small child choacking on a marshmellow (when mom gets in from a late night at the bar and feeds the 3 and 5 year olds a bag of marshellows for breakfast and goes to bed), that was a million dollar payout.

TropTrea
02/06/2007, 08:23 AM
I am not particularly familuar with your particular type ballast. However under the general principles of most ballast designs either of three things will happen.

1. The ballast will fire the lower wattage bulb just like it would the rated bulb.

2. The start sequence will kick in but will not switch to the run sequence because it has not sensed the correct from of current through the tube.

3. The start sequence will cycle but when it switches to the run sequence it will not detect the bulb is burning properly and the start sequence will restart.

Either way if watch it within 3 minutes you should be able to tell which of the above three is occuring. If it lights up nor,mally which I suspect would happen with 95% of the none electronic ballasts then your home free. If not then the ballast is tightly tunned to a specific bulb.

Now if it is an electronic ballast and it does not properly fire some of them have adjustments so they can be tuned to particular bulb. The bad part is that these adjustments are not always readily accessable.

On the side note form others comments. Yes many manufacturers build only one basic ballast for multi applications. In some cases it may be the adjustment of a pot to change the ballast from 2- 24W bulbs to 2-54 watt bulbs, in other it may be a hidden selector switch, and it others it might be electronicly sensed and switched.

The saving between building a ballast to handle 55 watts maximium compared to 150 watts maximium is probbly less than a $1.00 each. Yet the savings by being able to build 10,000 ballast at a time compared to 2,000 is probably greater than $5.00 each. So it becomes a no brainer in many cases. However there are no gurantees as to haw a particlur company will approach this. If they are building millions of ballasts that savings of $1.00 in parts may be atractive as the savings from building 1,000,000 compared to 200,000 may be negliable or only pennies.

Now where you do have a much higher risk is when you assume that the ballast that ran your 1-24W bulbs will run your 2-54 watt bulbs. It might be able to light them up but is it properly cooled or have the heat sinks to handle the added wattage. Will it overheat. or start a fire? or is the same ballast they sell in a fixture with 4-54 Bulbs and will not give you any issues?

Dennis


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9165939#post9165939 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
TropTea, I've got a bunch of these QTP ballasts sitting aroudn, so it'd be a 39w bulb in each 54w slot, so pulling significantly less wattage.

BusterDog
02/06/2007, 11:01 AM
What about the other way:
Can I use a Quicktronic 2 X 54w ballast to light a single 80w bulb?
I have been using ODNO lighting where the leads for two bulbs are combined to overdrive a single T8 bulb. Would the some concept work to light a single higher wattage T5 bulb?

MstgKillr
02/06/2007, 12:20 PM
Mr. Grim I need some advice.

I am getting a new tank but I am not sure what tank yet. I know that I want to run only T5's for which ever tank I decide to get. Here are my choices

120 gal. This tank will probably be too small being only 4ft long.

135 gal (72x18x25) I like the length but the it is only 18" deep.

156 gal (60x24x25) I think this is the tank that I want. Not to big not too small. My question, Is there a good T5 lighting option for this size tank? If so which system and bulbs in order?

215 gal (72x24x29) I also like this size tank but I think it might be too big light and depth wise.

So what do you think? I appericate any input. I want to do this right the first time.

I want to stock the tank with a litte bit of everything including sps and clams at the top.

Also, those are the only tank sizes that I will consider.

Thanks again for the help.

TropTrea
02/06/2007, 12:51 PM
On the Tank size question

What I advise everyone is to do is go as big as you can when you consider both space as well as your finances. The first consideration I use for size is the total cubic inches of surface area. In your case you have.

120 gallon = 24" X 48" = 1,152
135 gallon -+72" X 18" = 1,296
156 gallon = 60" X 24" = 1,440
215 gallon = 72" X 24" = 1,728

Looking at the height of the tank the first 3 are basicly 25" tall and last is 29" tall. If your lighting is 6" above the surface then in reality the difference in intensity will be a maximium of 78% less on the taller tank. If you put the higher light requirement critters near the surface that would not be a big issue.

The other point to consider is the dept of the tank. The 135 gallon tank is is 18" deep while the others are 24" deep. The deeper that tank the more room you have for lighting on the surface, as well as more room to do your aquascaping. So on a personal view here I would rull out the 135 gallon tank.

So now your down to three tank possiilities the 120, 156, and the 215. Space does not seem to be a big problem for you since your already considering these three tanks. However budget comes into play next. The bigger the tank more you will be spending. It is not unsusual for a total expenditure of a salt water tank to go well over $50 per gallon. so just looking at a value like that you have range of $6,000 to $10,750. Fortunatly it is the smaller tanks that have the biggest investment per gallon as when
I lost my 75 gallon tank the insurance company calculated I had over $7,000 invested in it of which only a little over $2,000 ended up being covered. (depreciation cost, livestock not coveredbeyound $200, and exceeding the max of the insurance policy)

Dennis

hahnmeister
02/06/2007, 01:12 PM
Well, since I already had Hamerstrom's email, I thought I would ask SINCE NOBODY ELSE WANTS TO PICK UP THE PHONE..lol.

He said that no, only the 24/39watt ballasts can switch like that. the Sylvania 54watt ballasts will not run 'nice' with the 39 and 24 watt bulbs. And no, a 2x54wattT5 ballast wont run an 80watt bulb.

Ha ha... Dennis said 'total cubic inches of surface area'...lol. Yeah... because thats possible.

ErikS
02/06/2007, 03:36 PM
I could use a bit of help with T5's......I think I've asked this before.......but what they heck.

Current lighting is 2x250w Phoenix 14K, run about 6hrs total. Each MH runs about 20 minutes before & after. Also have 2x54w T5 (Finnex - single reflector, replacement bulbs) that I use as extra lighting, that runs a few hours before & after the MH's for a total of 10.5 hours of light.

Problem - heat, in the summer the controller often turns out one or the other MH to keep the temp down.....a chiller is not an option. The MH's also put a LOT of heat into the room, open top no canopy.

Tank dimensions are 48L x 26w x 25" tall & livestock is a couple of LPS, some lower light SPS (monti's), and a couple higher light SPS (a. somensis - sp?), also one squammy 2/3 of the way up.

I had originally thought of using either 4 or 6 54w.......but the tank is eurobraced with a 1.25" top (yes, not a typo). So i'm thinking that not much is going through that portion anyway. The bracing is about 3" wide.

At the moment I'm thinking of going with a 36" fixture............but.......can I cram enough into the width to provide the light I need.

Thinking 6x39w with individual reflectors (IceCap) & cooling for best performance (DIY fixture)..........maybe 8?

RichConley
02/06/2007, 03:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9173414#post9173414 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Well, since I already had Hamerstrom's email, I thought I would ask SINCE NOBODY ELSE WANTS TO PICK UP THE PHONE..lol.

He said that no, only the 24/39watt ballasts can switch like that. the Sylvania 54watt ballasts will not run 'nice' with the 39 and 24 watt bulbs. And no, a 2x54wattT5 ballast wont run an 80watt bulb.

Ha ha... Dennis said 'total cubic inches of surface area'...lol. Yeah... because thats possible.

Looks like I'm gonna have to buy a new tank. Crap.

MstgKillr
02/06/2007, 04:13 PM
Mr. Grim/Anyone

This is what I got so far, If I go with

156 gal with starfire front glass
Reef Geek
T5 Retro
8-80w (640 total watts)

180 gal with normal glass
Aquatintics
Constellation
14-39w (546 total watts)

215 gal with starfire front glass
Aquatintics
Constellation
14-39w (546 total watts)

How does the lighting look for these tanks?
Any other input?

Thanks,

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 04:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9172991#post9172991 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MstgKillr
Mr. Grim I need some advice.

I am getting a new tank but I am not sure what tank yet. I know that I want to run only T5's for which ever tank I decide to get. Here are my choices

120 gal. This tank will probably be too small being only 4ft long.

135 gal (72x18x25) I like the length but the it is only 18" deep.

156 gal (60x24x25) I think this is the tank that I want. Not to big not too small. My question, Is there a good T5 lighting option for this size tank? If so which system and bulbs in order?

215 gal (72x24x29) I also like this size tank but I think it might be too big light and depth wise.

So what do you think? I appericate any input. I want to do this right the first time.

I want to stock the tank with a litte bit of everything including sps and clams at the top.

Also, those are the only tank sizes that I will consider.

Thanks again for the help.

I like the 156 gallon too. An 8 lamp refrofit kit would be best for that tank if you plan on using a hood. You could use the 54 watt lamps which are 48" long but willgive you good coverage to within about 4" on each end. You hardly notice a difference in the look and who puts high light critters at the ege of the tank anyway. I would get a 8 lamp reefgeek retro with the Ice Cap reflector upgrade.

If you need a hood then ATI is probably the best option available right now (or at least it will be available in the very near future). In that case I would go with the 6 or 8x80 watt hood which is 60" long. A lot of money but if the lighting is exposed you want it to be the length of the tank. You coul look at the Fauna Marin ultra solaris that Aquarium obssessed sells. It is a stand alone fixture that comes with a hanging kit although it looks a little industrial for my taste.

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 04:43 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9174644#post9174644 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ErikS
I could use a bit of help with T5's......I think I've asked this before.......but what they heck.

Current lighting is 2x250w Phoenix 14K, run about 6hrs total. Each MH runs about 20 minutes before & after. Also have 2x54w T5 (Finnex - single reflector, replacement bulbs) that I use as extra lighting, that runs a few hours before & after the MH's for a total of 10.5 hours of light.

Problem - heat, in the summer the controller often turns out one or the other MH to keep the temp down.....a chiller is not an option. The MH's also put a LOT of heat into the room, open top no canopy.

Tank dimensions are 48L x 26w x 25" tall & livestock is a couple of LPS, some lower light SPS (monti's), and a couple higher light SPS (a. somensis - sp?), also one squammy 2/3 of the way up.

I had originally thought of using either 4 or 6 54w.......but the tank is eurobraced with a 1.25" top (yes, not a typo). So i'm thinking that not much is going through that portion anyway. The bracing is about 3" wide.

At the moment I'm thinking of going with a 36" fixture............but.......can I cram enough into the width to provide the light I need.

Thinking 6x39w with individual reflectors (IceCap) & cooling for best performance (DIY fixture)..........maybe 8?

So no canopy?

If that is the case and you need a fixture I would contact Aquactinics from the sponsor's page. The currently make a 5 lamp normally driven T5 unit that is a tad weak for your tank. They make another called the SOlar Flare which is a 6 lamp unit using Ice Cap reflectors and ballasts. That would work great for your tank but considering your stocking plans I don't think you really need to be overdriving the lamps. What I would ask about is their Constellation seiries fixtures. They are a 72" beast with 7 rows of 39 watt lamps that cover the 72". I heard a rumor they are considering or planning on bringing out that fixture in 36 and 48" sizes. The 48 would be perfect for your setup. The reflectors are as good or slightly better than Ice Caps and the lamps are not overdriven. If you aren't in a big hurry it is possible you can be first in line if they really are planning a 48" unit.

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 04:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9174959#post9174959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MstgKillr
Mr. Grim/Anyone

This is what I got so far, If I go with

156 gal with starfire front glass
Reef Geek
T5 Retro
8-80w (640 total watts)

180 gal with normal glass
Aquatintics
Constellation
14-39w (546 total watts)

215 gal with starfire front glass
Aquatintics
Constellation
14-39w (546 total watts)

How does the lighting look for these tanks?
Any other input?

Thanks,

Any of that would be disco, just remember that if you get the reefgeek retro you could use 54" 48 watt lamps instead. That allows you to upgra to Ice Cap reflectors for 2 bux a lamp AND!!!! you have a better selection of lamps including the UVL's. Also look at the Fauna Mariin 80 watt T5 units Aquarium obssesed sells, good price although I am not sure of the performance yet.

MstgKillr
02/06/2007, 04:57 PM
If you need a hood then ATI is probably the best option available right now (or at least it will be available in the very near future). In that case I would go with the 6 or 8x80 watt hood which is 60" long. A lot of money but if the lighting is exposed you want it to be the length of the tank. You coul look at the Fauna Marin ultra solaris that Aquarium obssessed sells. It is a stand alone fixture that comes with a hanging kit although it looks a little industrial for my taste.

Yes, one condition for the new tank is that I have to have a canopy.

You said that ATI is the best option and is 60" long.
Is that a 60" bulb?
Where can I buy it and how much?

Thanks

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 05:17 PM
If you are using a canopy then I would strongly suggest using 48" lamps in a retrofit kit. You have a much better selection of lamps and can get the Ice Cap reflectors. If you are concerned about the light covrage just stagger the lamps a few inches end to end. Reefgeek will have the ATI fixtures if you want to go that way.

GT
02/06/2007, 05:23 PM
Hey Grim, I took your advise from a few months ago, and purchased the aquanetics 14x39w T5 setup. I have a 225 gl, 72x24x30 deep. Im having a major diatom prob. just on the sand, and the low rocks, none on the glass. Im wondering if the par rating on the aquaz are not good enough because of the depth and if that would cause it. Every other diatom prb has been addressed. I have mix of aquaz and geissmann..as follows:
Aquaz 4x blue pro, 4x ocean pro, Geismann 2x pure antic, 2x antic plus, 2x aquablue plus. Not alot of SPS yet but working that way. I seen the par ratings you listed earlier in the thread, and made me think. Mabey thats contibuting to the Diatom circle of hell!

Thanks.

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 05:40 PM
Hows your flow in the lower part of the tank? Sounds like you might jut nee more water movement down there.

GT
02/06/2007, 05:47 PM
Well its not stagnet, but not like the flow above. Havent moved the ph's down yet. I have 4x seio 1500s now. Not a prob with the bulb selection though?

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 05:54 PM
I doubt it. Hit it with some flow and see what happens.

ErikS
02/06/2007, 06:28 PM
If that is the case and you need a fixture I would contact Aquactinics from the sponsor's page..........................
Thanks much for the input. I have talked to Tom, a while back though. Forgot one detail - tank is in a built in = no room for the 48"s ventilation. They're supposed to come out with a 36" Solar Flare which just might be the ticket....or a 36" constellation which might have more bulbs than the tx5.

Once again, thanks for the input

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 06:46 PM
Use a 48"retro with fans blowing in from the back

slant77
02/06/2007, 09:12 PM
T5 experts what setup would you use to light a 120 with zoo's and lps on bottom and sps middle and up. plan to change tanks march april. thanks

rob020880
02/06/2007, 09:48 PM
I just got my lumenarc stealths, and am planning on using a 10000k 250 watt bulbs. The issue is that I want to include t5's and my tank is a 30" deep quarter cylinder. So there isn't much room in the canopy. I Just measured and found that I can fit four 24". Is this overkill, or is it to little?

The Grim Reefer
02/06/2007, 10:50 PM
SHould be fine.

gixxer600
02/07/2007, 09:19 AM
Does anybody know what the dimensions are for the Ice cap reflectors. I plan on buying the 6 bulb 60 in T5 retro from Reefgeek and upgrading the reflectors. I have a 125g (6ft) with about 16in to work with in my canopy. I emailed Reefgeek and he said if I could wait a couple of weeks, then the new Sunlight Supply reflectors will be coming out. He said it is going to be superior to any reflectors out in the US market. Has anybody heard anything regarding the new reflectors.

kau_cinta_ku
02/07/2007, 10:00 AM
icecap don't have 60" reflectors but if you go to their forum and talk to ash they will sell you the double 36" reflectors for a 60" setup straight through icecap.

WallyBackm
02/07/2007, 10:39 AM
I just bought the SLS Tek T5 6 bulb system 48 inches. The individual reflectors are great.

I bought the device to prop it over tank and it now sits 3-4 inches above water.

Questions: I have no cover over water. Should I get some type of splash guard?

Also, there does not seem to be any fan in this unit? Should I hook one up? If so, which and how?

Lastly, any recs for a good moonlight for a 48 inch tank?

Thanks as always.

The Grim Reefer
02/07/2007, 11:49 AM
You can use a 6" clip on fan on the back of the tank to cool the Tek. Having the fan blowing down over the top of the fixture worked the best.

flapjack1439
02/07/2007, 12:27 PM
I have a 36" 58 Gal Oceanic running 6 24" VHOs.

I'm replacing 4 of the VHOs with 36" T5s and keeping 2 VHOs for actinic. The second ballast can't run T5s.

I would put one VHO actinic in front and the other in back with the T5s in between. Would that be OK? What T5 bulbs would you recommend?

WallyBackm
02/07/2007, 12:35 PM
Thanks Grim,

Not sure exactly where I should put the fan...on top of the fixture?

Also, do you think I should get a splash guard?

dwdenny
02/07/2007, 03:30 PM
Anyone keeping clams under T5's. If so what is the minimum of lamps you think you need? I am asking because I would like to have a clam one day when I get the tank setup. I was originally thinking 4X39w and keeping in the rocks about half way up(crocea) as they one of the smallest. What does everyone think?

The Grim Reefer
02/07/2007, 03:36 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9181741#post9181741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WallyBackm
Thanks Grim,

Not sure exactly where I should put the fan...on top of the fixture?

Also, do you think I should get a splash guard?

clip it to the rear of the tank. have the fan blow accross the tank horizontally.

REMF
02/07/2007, 03:43 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9183116#post9183116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dwdenny
Anyone keeping clams under T5's.


Yes, 75g with a 5x54w retro, both clams are very healthy and growing for over a year now.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/75993clams.JPG

dwdenny
02/07/2007, 03:58 PM
Thanks REMF that is great looking tank.

reefboy12
02/07/2007, 06:38 PM
T5 afficionados,

I have a 4x24w tek retro running.....Ati blue+, Uvl super actinic, Uvl aquasun, & Ati blue+. This combo is a little to pink & not as bright as I'm used to. What combo would you use? I reall like the Uvl actinic & the amount of blue.

Thanks,
Ron

BigRick08
02/07/2007, 07:02 PM
dwdenny, I currently have a current t-5 ho 4x54 watt setup over a 150g tall and I have a clam in the middle no problem with good growth. I am waiting for my new 8x54 watt tek fixture in the mail. But I mean just the 4 bulbs alone work good for me and my tank is 31 inches deep.

glenik
02/07/2007, 07:11 PM
REMF, what bulb combo and placement are you using with your 5x54? I'm in the market and I don't want to waste money on the wrong bulbs.

dwdenny
02/07/2007, 07:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9184839#post9184839 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigRick08
dwdenny, I currently have a current t-5 ho 4x54 watt setup over a 150g tall and I have a clam in the middle no problem with good growth. I am waiting for my new 8x54 watt tek fixture in the mail. But I mean just the 4 bulbs alone work good for me and my tank is 31 inches deep.

Thanks I was thinking it wuld be enough but not 100% sure. I will probably upgrade to the IC reflectors unless the TEKII reflectors come out before I order in a month or two.

REMF
02/07/2007, 08:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9184938#post9184938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glenik
REMF, what bulb combo and placement are you using with your 5x54? I'm in the market and I don't want to waste money on the wrong bulbs.

About 4-5" off the water.

Front
ULV Super Actinic
Giesemann Aquablue Plus
GE 6500K
Giesemann Aquablue Plus
ULV Super Actinic Back

It's working for me, everyone has their preference of color though, I feel it gives me a nice crisp color with a light blue tint, and it's quite blue with just the SA's.

I run the 2 SA on 1 ballast and the other 3 on another ballast for dusk to dawn effect.

Hopefully Grim, Han, or NewSchool04 can chime in here, hell I could be all wrong but it works for me.

dwdenny
02/07/2007, 08:08 PM
REMF you are running the IC ballasts as well with the aquatinic set correct?

REMF
02/07/2007, 08:23 PM
Nope I run a pair of the dreaded work horse 7's. They have worked well for me for over a year and some change. I know the T5 guru "The Grim Reefer" doesn't like them but they have been good to me so far. I have an IC660 sitting in a box, I just need to get off my lazy a$$ and wire it, but then I will need fans also.

I also have 3 Aqualux reflectors, 1 IC reflector, and 1 tek reflector. IC is the best of the 3 BTW.

kingzeus
02/07/2007, 08:25 PM
I see a lot of talk about Blue+ bulbs. Are they the same as Actnic+? I believe they are, but I'd love confirmation.

This is my setup on a Tek 6 fixture. I like the color and I believe it provides enough lighting for a BTA, softies, clams, and SPS. However, I'm concerned there is too much actnic lighting.

I really like the blue lighting. My corals really pop out when just the outer Actnic+ are on and I wish I could replicate that (or come close) with all 6 bulbs, but I've been unsuccesful.


Feel free to correct me and offer suggestions.

Front:
- Actnic+
- Super Actnic
- Aquasun
- Super Actnic
- 6500k
- Actnic+

Thanks.

REMF
02/07/2007, 08:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185550#post9185550 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kingzeus
I see a lot of talk about Blue+ bulbs. Are they the same as Actnic+? I believe they are, but I'd love confirmation.

No they are not, at least not by Giesemann, look HERE (http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/Bulbs/) and look at the spectral graft for both bulbs.

kingzeus
02/07/2007, 08:38 PM
Reefgeek does not have a spectral graph for the Blue Plus. I assumed ATI's Blue Plus was comparable to Giesemann's Actnic+. Both bulbs have a wavelength of 450n according to this page:
http://www.3reef.com/aquarium-page-Content-viewarticle-30.html


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185616#post9185616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REMF
No they are not, at least not by Giesemann, look HERE (http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/Bulbs/) and look at the spectral graft for both bulbs.

The Grim Reefer
02/07/2007, 08:45 PM
Actinic Plus and Blue plus are the same Type of lamp, 450nm blue. You could pull the Aquasun and put a Blue Plus in its place. The ATI blue Plus has better output than Giesemann's Actinic Plus but will have about the same effect.

Line your lamps like this
Front
Actinic Plus
Super Actinic
Daylight
Blue Plus
Super Actinic (or a second blue plus for a more blue look)
Actinic Plus

The Blue Plus put out quit a bit of PAR. You could actually swap a super actinic for a blue plus in your current mix and get more blue plus increase PAR.

REMF
02/07/2007, 08:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185676#post9185676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kingzeus
Reefgeek does not have a spectral graph for the Blue Plus.[/url]

Sorry I thought you were talking about the Aquablue +

The Grim Reefer
02/07/2007, 08:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185785#post9185785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REMF
Sorry I thought you were talking about the Aquablue +

Next time read with your good eye opened:lol:

REMF
02/07/2007, 08:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185804#post9185804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Next time read with your good eye opened:lol:

I reserve that eye for looking thru a scope, not reading reef boards :D

Sorry kingzeus

kingzeus
02/07/2007, 08:57 PM
No problem. I actually ended up a few Aquablue pluses for a similar reason :(.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185820#post9185820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REMF
I reserve that eye for looking thru a scope, not reading reef boards :D

Sorry kingzeus

ever818
02/08/2007, 12:28 AM
Hello, Grim


I need some advise on my t5 set up, I have a 60x18x24 tank
I want to put sps anywhere in the tank what would you recommend.


I was thinking of 6 80 watt IC
or the 6 54 watt SLS

someone told me that there's not a lot of good bulbs in the 80 watt
so they told me to do the 54 watt.


what do you think I should do?????

thanks

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 12:42 AM
I would do a 6x54 watt system. I would do a 4 lamp Ice Cap system and a 2 lamp tek retro with Ice Cap reflectors. Reefgeek can put you together a system like that.

jennmac415
02/08/2007, 01:02 AM
Hello,
I may be purchasing a used 72" Aquactinic 14 bulb T5 unit for the 180 gallon tank I am setting up.

I will be keeping mostly LPS, softies and maybe an occasional colorful SPS that can do well with the T5's. I like my tank a little on the bluer side, and really want the colors to pop, but also want to have some growth. Please help with bulb choices and also what order they would go in from front to back...

Thank you,
Jenni

ever818
02/08/2007, 01:09 AM
can anybody help me to make a picture that's 1.65 MB in to my avatar do you guys have a website that i can upload my pic to size it down???

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 01:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9187612#post9187612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jennmac415
Hello,
I may be purchasing a used 72" Aquactinic 14 bulb T5 unit for the 180 gallon tank I am setting up.

I will be keeping mostly LPS, softies and maybe an occasional colorful SPS that can do well with the T5's. I like my tank a little on the bluer side, and really want the colors to pop, but also want to have some growth. Please help with bulb choices and also what order they would go in from front to back...

Thank you,
Jenni

Blue Plus lamps put out good PAR. I would try

Front
Blue Plus
UVL Super Actinic
GE Daylight
Blue Plus
GE Daylight
Blue Plus
Aquablue

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 01:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9187626#post9187626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ever818
can anybody help me to make a picture that's 1.65 MB in to my avatar do you guys have a website that i can upload my pic to size it down???

Windows has a power tools download that has a pic resizer. Hit the MS website for it.

toasty23
02/08/2007, 02:13 AM
hey grim which is better the sun light tek reflectors or the ice cap slr .. is there really that much of a diff?

toasty23
02/08/2007, 02:15 AM
oh eah and would haveing an eggcrate cover effect the light to tank?

thanks again

toasty 23

dwdenny
02/08/2007, 05:52 AM
I am not grim but the IC reflectors are the best and yes eggcreate would lower the light reaching the tank. It does block the light.

jennmac415
02/08/2007, 09:10 AM
Thanks Grim...

Now, where is the "least expensive" place to buy all of these bulb? Is the GE daylight different from the GE 3000 or the GE 6500?

Jenni

jennmac415
02/08/2007, 09:13 AM
Thanks Grim...

Now, where is the "least expensive" place to buy all of these bulb? Is the GE daylight different from the GE 3000 or the GE 6500? Aslo, are the blue plus and aquablue by ATI and the UVl the former Uri??

Jenni

jennmac415
02/08/2007, 09:31 AM
sorry didn't mean to post twice... computer froze lol

dwdenny
02/08/2007, 10:24 AM
reefgeek.com

TropTrea
02/08/2007, 10:55 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9188855#post9188855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jennmac415


Is the GE daylight different from the GE 3000 or the GE 6500?

Jenni

Yes these are different bulbs considerably.

GE 3,000K has a low color temperature and a strong peak in the "Yellow" end of the color spectrum. It is commonly refered to as a Warm White bulb, and for florescent lighting is probably the clossed you will find to incadescent as far as color rendering.

GE Daylight isroughly a 6,500K bulb. However it does not have the same phosphate blend as the SP65 bulbs therefore the coloration will look slightly bluer than a SP65, and much bluer than the 3,000K bulb.

The SP65 or 6,500K bulbs do have a peak very close to the Daylight bulbs however they also have a more complex blend to increase the balance of visual light therefore reducing the appearance of a blue bulb.

Ge used to have a nice comercial catalog on line that actually listed all the different bulbs they produced. Believe me there more than just a hand full with many special applications included. However the nice thing is regardless of what ulb you were interested in they gave you the color temp, cri rating, and lumens value. Unfortunatly they did give the PAr numbers, except for the bulbs specificly designed for green house use.

Dennis

kjord97
02/08/2007, 10:56 AM
I have been looking at purchasing 8 x 80 T5's for my 150 gal reef that I am building. I am having a difficult time trying to find some reflectors. The longest I have been able to find is for the 54watt bulbs. I can not find anything for the 80 watt bulbs. Anyone have any ideas or a place for the longer reflector. I thought about buying buying 2 of the 32watt reflectors and placing them in line with each other.


Question? Will 2 IceCap 660's be able to run the 8x80 T-5's just fine. I believe it would be able to handle them just fine. Each 660 is able to handle about 440watts.

dwdenny
02/08/2007, 11:14 AM
hjord97 here is your answer on the 660.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1039902

kjord97
02/08/2007, 11:14 AM
what about the reflector, has anyone seen a 60 inch reflector for the 80watt bulbs

drstupid
02/08/2007, 12:20 PM
hello T5 experts, i'm running two 250W MH's (14000K phoenix HQI's) over my 120 gallon tank now, and am very pleased with the color. but i miss the pop of the actintics, and want to add some. it seems there are some T5 actintic bulbs that can really bring out the flourescents in the corals, others that don't do that well. what bulbs do i want, and how many do i need? it's a 4' x 2' x 2' tank, with a 6" DSB. mostly SPS, with a frogspawn and a crocea. i'm thinking two bulbs, one in the front and one in the back.

hellolights is running a special right now on the sunlight supply tek retrofits, which seem like what i want. the 2 x 4' kit with tek reflectors, ballast, wires, endcaps and stand-offs, and they're basically throwing in TRU actintics for free. does anyone have any experience with these bulbs? if they aren't going to do the trick, then the special they're running is the same price as reefgeek with a lesser bulb selection if you 'upgrade' off the free bulbs.

any other suggestions?

kjord97
02/08/2007, 12:50 PM
Grim,

I am going to go with the 8 x 54'' T-5s and just kinda stagger them in the canopy.

Was thinking maybe something like this. Now I will be using 2 icecap 660's and I know that you like to run the actinics on 1 ballast and the other bulbs on the other ballast. Which bulbs should i purchase and how should I lay it out. Please fill in the ??'s below. I will be getting the bulbs from reef geek

72' 150 gal tank, mostly LPS SPS and some shrooms and zoos along the bottom.

Front
---------------------------------- ??
:cool: -------------------------------------- ??
---------------------------------- ??
:smokin: -------------------------------------- ??
---------------------------------- ??
:eek1: -------------------------------------- ??
---------------------------------- ??
:eek2: -------------------------------------- ??
Back

toasty23
02/08/2007, 01:59 PM
oh great grim ,

I am going to go with the a retro kit instead of the nova. i am looking at the tek light retro or building my own out of the workhorse 5 wich would be better ballast? it comes out to be the same price! and the lights im getting are the ATI Aquablue special, Blue plus, UVL Super Actinic, GE 65000k starcoat daylight all 24" how should they go in my tank from front to back... thanks

toasty23

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 02:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9190500#post9190500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kjord97
Grim,

I am going to go with the 8 x 54'' T-5s and just kinda stagger them in the canopy.

Was thinking maybe something like this. Now I will be using 2 icecap 660's and I know that you like to run the actinics on 1 ballast and the other bulbs on the other ballast. Which bulbs should i purchase and how should I lay it out. Please fill in the ??'s below. I will be getting the bulbs from reef geek

72' 150 gal tank, mostly LPS SPS and some shrooms and zoos along the bottom.

Front
---------------------------------- ??
:cool: -------------------------------------- ??
---------------------------------- ??
:smokin: -------------------------------------- ??
---------------------------------- ??
:eek1: -------------------------------------- ??
---------------------------------- ??
:eek2: -------------------------------------- ??
Back

Front
---------------------------------- ?? Blue Plus
:cool: -------------------------------------- ?? Blue Plus
---------------------------------- ?? GE Daylight
:smokin: -------------------------------------- ?? GE Daylight
---------------------------------- ?? Aquablue
:eek1: -------------------------------------- ?? Aquablue
---------------------------------- ?? Blue Plus
:eek2: -------------------------------------- ?? Blue Plus

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 03:00 PM
You get what you pay for. The UVL Super Actinics are the best for a straight actinic. The Blue Plus is a nice lamp too. The combination of the two is the schnitz. I would run a SA in front and a Blue Plus behind.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9190267#post9190267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drstupid
hello T5 experts, i'm running two 250W MH's (14000K phoenix HQI's) over my 120 gallon tank now, and am very pleased with the color. but i miss the pop of the actintics, and want to add some. it seems there are some T5 actintic bulbs that can really bring out the flourescents in the corals, others that don't do that well. what bulbs do i want, and how many do i need? it's a 4' x 2' x 2' tank, with a 6" DSB. mostly SPS, with a frogspawn and a crocea. i'm thinking two bulbs, one in the front and one in the back.

hellolights is running a special right now on the sunlight supply tek retrofits, which seem like what i want. the 2 x 4' kit with tek reflectors, ballast, wires, endcaps and stand-offs, and they're basically throwing in TRU actintics for free. does anyone have any experience with these bulbs? if they aren't going to do the trick, then the special they're running is the same price as reefgeek with a lesser bulb selection if you 'upgrade' off the free bulbs.

any other suggestions?

drstupid
02/08/2007, 03:01 PM
that's great, grim; thanks!

how about ballast? or are the all basically the same?

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 03:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9191061#post9191061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by toasty23
oh great grim ,

I am going to go with the a retro kit instead of the nova. i am looking at the tek light retro or building my own out of the workhorse 5 wich would be better ballast? it comes out to be the same price! and the lights im getting are the ATI Aquablue special, Blue plus, UVL Super Actinic, GE 65000k starcoat daylight all 24" how should they go in my tank from front to back... thanks

toasty23

Triads are better ballasts.

Put the lamps in like this

Front
Blue Plus
uper Actinic
GE
Aquablue

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 03:04 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9191584#post9191584 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drstupid
that's great, grim; thanks!

how about ballast? or are the all basically the same?

Triads, Dynamic, VS and quicktronic are all about the same.

toasty23
02/08/2007, 03:08 PM
im not to keen on ballast so would that be the tek retro ballast or the workhorse? thanks

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 03:12 PM
Tek retro use triads mostly. Better than the Workhorse.

toasty23
02/08/2007, 03:30 PM
sweet thanks grim

paisleyw
02/08/2007, 03:42 PM
For those who have switched from Metal Halides, Approx how many 54W T5's would be equal (or better!) then 2 250W XM 10K's?

I am getting ready to switch and don't want to wait for SanJay to finish the testing. My tank is 4x2x2 and I was thinking about trying to squeeze 8 54W T5's but was wanting to know mainly what came closest to the brightness of the MH's.

I know I'm asking for trouble cause everyone has a different opinion on this. I was thinking about going with 2 atinics and 4 10k tubes to start...

toasty23
02/08/2007, 05:43 PM
how should i set my lights on for times. wich ones turn on first and when? how long to have on is ten hours enough?
Front
Blue Plus
uper Actinic
GE
Aquablue

Quatro
02/08/2007, 05:48 PM
Anyone try the Korallen-Zucht T5's? Coral Light (5% red) or Fiji Purple (red for reds/pinks pop)?

Anyone try the AquaScience T5's? 15k (brighter than AB) or 22k (B+) or 65k (65k duh) or DUO (15k/22k plus some extra red/yellow)?

I'm thinking about this:

4x24w Tek-

AquaScience 22k
AquaScience DUO
KZ Fiji Purple
AquaScience 22k or UVL Super Actinic

This will get the whites, reds and blues covered, hopefully "poping" all coral colors ;)

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 06:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9191932#post9191932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paisleyw
For those who have switched from Metal Halides, Approx how many 54W T5's would be equal (or better!) then 2 250W XM 10K's?

I am getting ready to switch and don't want to wait for SanJay to finish the testing. My tank is 4x2x2 and I was thinking about trying to squeeze 8 54W T5's but was wanting to know mainly what came closest to the brightness of the MH's.

I know I'm asking for trouble cause everyone has a different opinion on this. I was thinking about going with 2 atinics and 4 10k tubes to start...

If you want to be in line with the better 250 watt halides (or better:D) use 1 4 lamp Ice Cap retro and 1 4 lamp Tek retro with the IC reflector upgrade. That should be about equal to the best halide systems.

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 06:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9192996#post9192996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hceiv
Anyone try the Korallen-Zucht T5's? Coral Light (5% red) or Fiji Purple (red for reds/pinks pop)?

Anyone try the AquaScience T5's? 15k (brighter than AB) or 22k (B+) or 65k (65k duh) or DUO (15k/22k plus some extra red/yellow)?

I'm thinking about this:

4x24w Tek-

AquaScience 22k
AquaScience DUO
KZ Fiji Purple
AquaScience 22k or UVL Super Actinic

This will get the whites, reds and blues covered, hopefully "poping" all coral colors ;)

I havent ran them yet but judging on the packing and apperance of the lamps I would say the Aquascience are the same lamps as the Giesemanns. They are both made by Narva, it is possible they are doing something different for the AS lamps but I would be surprised if they are.

Quatro
02/08/2007, 06:38 PM
Here is a description of AquaSciences lamps by Claude:

"Hi

The new Duo lamp is a mix between the 15.000 Kelvin Tube and the actinic/blue 22.000 Tube

Our Tubes are

Aqua Science Special : very wide spectrum bright white light
Aqua Science Duo : white/blueish sprectrum very strong wit a little
bit of red and yellow in the spectrum
Aqua Science blue : light actinic / strong blue T5 tube

all Tubes are HO and newest german technolgie and made by the T5 specialist Narva

Greetings Claude"

Quatro
02/08/2007, 06:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9193391#post9193391 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
I havent ran them yet but judging on the packing and apperance of the lamps I would say the Aquascience are the same lamps as the Giesemanns. They are both made by Narva, it is possible they are doing something different for the AS lamps but I would be surprised if they are.

No comment on the KZ lamps? ;)

paisleyw
02/08/2007, 06:55 PM
Grim,
Thanks for the quick reply, I have to say that IceCap already won me on preformance and customer service. Ok 8 x 54W T5 IC retro it is... I feel bad for asking because I have seen you answer so many (I just dont have many t5 picture examples to go from) but, what mix of bulbs would get me closest to a 12K color?

flapjack1439
02/08/2007, 07:25 PM
I have a 36" 58 Gal Oceanic running 6 24" VHOs.

I'm replacing 4 of the VHOs with 36" T5s and keeping 2 VHOs for actinic. The second ballast can't run T5s.

I would put one VHO URI Super Actinic in front and another in back with the T5s in between. What T5 bulbs would you recommend?

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 07:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9193427#post9193427 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hceiv
No comment on the KZ lamps? ;)

Hard to say until I run them. I assume they are the same lamps Giesemann sells but again, gotta run them first.

EDIT:
Opps, KZ lamps.

Hard to say until I have ran them

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 07:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9193565#post9193565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paisleyw
Grim,
Thanks for the quick reply, I have to say that IceCap already won me on preformance and customer service. Ok 8 x 54W T5 IC retro it is... I feel bad for asking because I have seen you answer so many (I just dont have many t5 picture examples to go from) but, what mix of bulbs would get me closest to a 12K color?

Try this

Front

Blue Plus
Super Actinic
GE Daylight
Aquablue
UVL Aquasun
Aquablue
Super Actinic

Grab an extra GE daylight so you can try different mixes.
Blue Plus

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 07:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9193862#post9193862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flapjack1439
I have a 36" 58 Gal Oceanic running 6 24" VHOs.

I'm replacing 4 of the VHOs with 36" T5s and keeping 2 VHOs for actinic. The second ballast can't run T5s.

I would put one VHO URI Super Actinic in front and another in back with the T5s in between. What T5 bulbs would you recommend?

Do a blue Plus, Aquasun, Aquablue and GE Daylight

Quatro
02/08/2007, 08:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9193945#post9193945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Hard to say until I run them. I assume they are the same lamps Giesemann sells but again, gotta run them first.

EDIT:
Opps, KZ lamps.

Hard to say until I have ran them

No worries, I'll be sure to let you know what I think, just ordered that combo I listed above! ;)

BreadmanMike
02/08/2007, 08:03 PM
Where do you get the KZ and Aquascience lamps?

Quatro
02/08/2007, 08:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194191#post9194191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquaticman74
Where do you get the KZ and Aquascience lamps?

I got the KZ from www.captiveoceans.com

(direct link: http://www.zeovitusa.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ZUSA&Category_Code=T5Bulbs)

Aquarium Obsessed has AquaScience www.aquariumobsessed.com

HTH

BreadmanMike
02/08/2007, 08:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194252#post9194252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hceiv
I got the KZ from www.captiveoceans.com

Aquarium Obsessed has AquaScience www.aquariumobsessed.com

HTH

Thanks! I'm going to give a couple of them a try.

Quatro
02/08/2007, 08:15 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194275#post9194275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquaticman74
Thanks! I'm going to give a couple of them a try.

Captive Oceans also has AquaScience but only in 15k as far as I could see. Probably best to call for availability...

creep
02/08/2007, 08:24 PM
How long are T5 bulbs good for. I run my acitinics for about 10 hours a day, and my others for about 8 hours a day.

flapjack1439
02/08/2007, 08:36 PM
Do a blue Plus, Aquasun, Aquablue and GE Daylight


Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a winning combination.

I'm assuming the Blue Plus is at the frontand the GE at the back.

jennmac415
02/08/2007, 08:54 PM
Man, Grim....

How do you know what all of these bulb combos will look like?? I don't know the difference in any of these T5 bulbs... blue plus, aqua blue...blue this blue that... how do you know what each combination will look like? You must know these bulbs very well.

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 09:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194499#post9194499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flapjack1439
Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a winning combination.

I'm assuming the Blue Plus is at the frontand the GE at the back.

Yep

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 09:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194662#post9194662 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jennmac415
Man, Grim....

How do you know what all of these bulb combos will look like?? I don't know the difference in any of these T5 bulbs... blue plus, aqua blue...blue this blue that... how do you know what each combination will look like? You must know these bulbs very well.

I've played with all of them. Also get a lot of feedback. Everybody sees color a little diferently so all you can really do is get someone into the ballpark. I would be surprised if more than a few people stick with thier first mix long term.

paisleyw
02/08/2007, 09:08 PM
Grim,
Thanks again for taking the time out to help, I don't see how you do it... I'll post some pics once I get everything ordered and put together I'm rebuilding the canopy for this one. Guess I owe you a sixpack!
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194084#post9194084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
Try this

Front

Blue Plus
Super Actinic
GE Daylight
Aquablue
UVL Aquasun
Aquablue
Super Actinic

Grab an extra GE daylight so you can try different mixes.
Blue Plus

creep
02/08/2007, 09:53 PM
Does anyone know about how long T5 bulbs last before they need to be replaced when being ran betweein 8-10 hours a day.

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 10:38 PM
A year to 18 month is safe.

creep
02/08/2007, 10:40 PM
thats what i thought. Thanks Grim. A guy at my LFS was trying to tell me they only last 6 months, and that my 4 39w bulbs with individual reflectors wouldn't be even close to enough light to keep SPS in my 40 gal tank.

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 10:43 PM
Let me guess, The LFS wanted to sell you some good lights.

creep
02/08/2007, 10:45 PM
hey, how did you know?

my2girls
02/08/2007, 10:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9195609#post9195609 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by creep
thats what i thought. Thanks Grim. A guy at my LFS was trying to tell me they only last 6 months, and that my 4 39w bulbs with individual reflectors wouldn't be even close to enough light to keep SPS in my 40 gal tank.

I think it all depends on the corals you keep. FO, FOWLR, LPS, 1 year to 18 months, maybe even 2 years. If you are keeping brightly colored SPS IMO the bulbs are only good for 6-9 months.

vessxpress1
02/08/2007, 11:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194662#post9194662 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jennmac415
Man, Grim....

How do you know what all of these bulb combos will look like?? I don't know the difference in any of these T5 bulbs... blue plus, aqua blue...blue this blue that... how do you know what each combination will look like? You must know these bulbs very well.


I've posted these pics before but I don't think I have here. Although it's only one example, they may be helpful to someone.

Here's a pic I took of the water's surface showing the color of my bulbs pretty well, many of which are often refered to in this thread:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/vessxpress1/tank8-25-06/04-LTtoRTTek4x39wT5s-ATIBlue11000kA.jpg

From left to right, the first blue bulb you see is the ATI Blue Plus. The next bulb you see, the white one is the ATI Aquablue 11,000k. The yellow one is a Geismann 6000k midday. And finally, the last purple one is an ATI Pure Actinic. I know I'm only giving 4 bulbs as an example but they are commonly refered to. I still have them in this config. and the blue plus is at the front side of the tank, with the pure actinic in back.

Here is my tank 6 months ago under these bulbs just to give an idea of what this configuration will give you:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/vessxpress1/tank8-25-06/03.jpg

The bulbs are almost brand new in these pics but they have not lost much since then. You should be able to get at least a good 12 months out of these bulbs if not 18. I'll probably be replacing mine every 12 months just for the sake of feeling better about it.

The Grim Reefer
02/08/2007, 11:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9195680#post9195680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
I think it all depends on the corals you keep. FO, FOWLR, LPS, 1 year to 18 months, maybe even 2 years. If you are keeping brightly colored SPS IMO the bulbs are only good for 6-9 months.

Sorta depends on your system really. Throw a fan on your tank blowing acrossed your fixture and I bet you get a year of goo color and growth.

hahnmeister
02/08/2007, 11:59 PM
Bulb life is a relative thing. Going by mandatory changeout times that someone else suggests is sort of a waste. The only way to know for sure what your bulbs are putting out is by getting a PAR meter. That $270-300 that you spend will quickly be recouped by knowing exactly how much your bulbs are putting out, and when you really should change them, and what the light levels of the new bulbs are so you can raise the bulbs, use sunblock mesh, etc... to manipulate the levels without guessing. The corals you prevent from bleaching might make up for the $300 cost right off the bat.

The reason I say bulb life is a relative thing is because who is to say at what point a bulb is no longer capable of being used? When it loses 5%? 10%? or 40%? Making the daily photoperiod longer could easily compensate for a slightly lower output and help you get a much longer bulb life. Some people freak out when their bulbs lose 10% of their output. Well, almost every T5 bulb can lose this in the first few months. The good news is that after this initial 'burn off' the bulbs can stay at that range for a very long time. So rather than replacing the bulbs every 6 months... why not just use an extra bulb or two, or leave them on an extra hour, and get 12-18 months? While that first 10% might diminish rather quickly, the next 10% takes some time. And that doesnt even take into account the benefits of cooling.

If you arent going to use a meter, even a Lux meter at that, then I would like to suggest a better manner of giving bulb-life suggestions. The bulb change time should be matched with a percentage lost, as in, 15% in 9 months, or 20% in 12. This way people can have a more concrete manner of determining their own system's requirements, and not freak out every 6 months because the guy down the street says he has to change his bulbs every 6 months 'or else!'

creep
02/09/2007, 12:12 AM
wow, i was just looking for a general idea on approximately how long the bulbs last. but, umm, thanks.

Primetime33
02/09/2007, 12:46 AM
I purchased an 8x54 T5 IceCap retro from Greg at ReefGeek. I just got my tank today. It turns out that the canopy will not alllow all 8 bulbs. So I installed only 6. I probably could fit 7 but stuck with 6. My question is for Grim, Hahn, GSMguy or any other T5 guru. Out of the 9 bulbs that I have, I bought an extra per Grims advice a week or 2 ago, what config/order should I install them from Front to back? This is going on 150g with an intended mixture of all types of corals and a clam or 2.

Here are the bulbs that I have now.

Remember, only 6 can be used at this time ;)

3 @ ATI Blue+
2 @ UVL Super Atinics
1 @ UVL Aquasun 10K
1 @ GE 6500K
1 @ GE 3000K
1 @ ATI Aquablue Special 12000K

Thank you,
Prime

hahnmeister
02/09/2007, 02:05 AM
Well, a 150 is stretching those bulbs pretty thin, so I would stick to sun bulbs and the B+ bulbs... the highest output bulbs.
Front to Back...
-aquasun
-B+
-6500K
-B+
-12000K
-B+

mrpet
02/09/2007, 02:08 AM
hey hahn well i went ahead and bought the fauna 60" 6 lamp 80w
hoods 3 of them. now the bad news :( it seems i may not get them after all. aq ob emailed me back and there is a problem with the 80w hoods something to do with the ballast i think it might just be that they still do not have them in 110v. so i emailed them back told them 220v would be fine. really sucks hope it works out would go with ati but it seems that is still not a option. does ati even make a 60" hood? tank is 72" long so i would like at least 60" hoods oh well waiting to here back from aq ob to see whats up. what do u think of the aquascience bulbs they come with anygood? ordered 6 of each type for a total of 18 bulbs man was really looking foward to those units hope it works out..

scott

hahnmeister
02/09/2007, 02:26 AM
huh, thats weird. I knew those prices were too good to be true. I suppose they didnt take into account that 110v 80watt ballasts are more expensive than 220v.

I was going to say... OSRAM doesnt list 110v ballasts on their site, only 220v.

ATI does make a 60" powermodul, up to 10 bulbs...
http://www.meerwasser-onlineshop.de/shop/index.php/cat/c43_ATI.html/page/3/XTCsid/5c02a24a6d96aa479128057bb7341783

Perhaps this would be a better fit anyways...

What size tank again?

TropTrea
02/09/2007, 08:25 AM
Those german fixtures are just a little costly. for my 120 gallon the 8, 54 watt fixture is $779 Euro then you add the conversion to get that converts out to $1,012.34 US dollars today. Now your also talking 8 bulbs at around $160+ US, plus a voltage adptor to go from 120V to 220V for at least $100.00 more (500Watt unit) so you now have around at least 1,300 in the light fixture when you also consider shipping.

Now at these prices I could easily go back to my original idea and piut in a pair of 250W MH's about $500, plus 2T-5's around $200, and I'd have spent just over half of what I would with the German unit.

Now don't get me rwong I'm not saying that the German unit is not a quality peice that is probably worth the dollars. But what I'm saying is that there are more cost effective alternatives out there, especialy with the flood of products from the Chinesse market today.

Now think of it this way. If your going to buy a Shovel you can go to a specialty store and pay $50.00 for one that will last you a life time, or the discount store across the street and get one for $10.00 that will last you 20 years or more. Which would you buy?

Dennis

Primetime33
02/09/2007, 08:48 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9196629#post9196629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Well, a 150 is stretching those bulbs pretty thin, so I would stick to sun bulbs and the B+ bulbs... the highest output bulbs.
Front to Back...
-aquasun
-B+
-6500K
-B+
-12000K
-B+


Thank you Hahn. Hopefully its not spread too thin. I'll make the suggested config change. My corals are not doing too bad in my110 tall 48x30hx18w, with 4x55 PC's , so I am sure they will do better in my 150 with the T5's. Shorter Tank by 6" and more powerful liighting should enhance things.


Prime

Primetime33
02/09/2007, 09:27 AM
Hahn,
What if I went with 7 bulbs, what config would you suggest?

Thank you,
Prime

njb2345
02/09/2007, 09:46 AM
I need a good light step up for a SPS frag tank.. The tank is going to be 38" (L) x 18" (W) x 14" (H)..... The only part i am not sure about the in height of it... Should i make it deeper with t-5s so that I can put some sps lower?

Right now I have 1 IC 660 ballast, so i just need to know what else i would need and what light combination is the best for SPS growth and color?

Thanks
Nick

paisleyw
02/09/2007, 11:05 AM
vessxpress1,

Thanks for the pics. Do you know of any other links with examples like this? I'm trusting Grim and Hahn's advice but it really helps to show the Wife why it's worth the cash... hopefully after all these upgrades etc, I'll be experienced enough to contribute back to the hobby :D

kmacartney
02/09/2007, 11:21 AM
Does anyone know if the Aqua-Medic Oceanlight T5 fixture has individual reflectors?