Reefkeeping on the budget. Barebones photos included!

[tang named junkyard]

Well, I posted a post of people with simple setups and I can't believe I'm the only one. Sometimes I wish reef central would showcase people that have success that do things different but they only showcase systems that are high dollar and look like plans for the deathstar.

90 gal
Waterchanges = next to never
top off = tap water - no additives
DSB - lots of live rock
Every once in a while i throw in a sea lab 24 (I havnt in like forever)
I never check the parimaters other than temp and sometime salinity to make sure its close.
Once a year I might check the PH. its never off.
Temp 80
Remora skimmer that doesnt work well. (I almost want to take it off)
Everything you see here started off as a frag.
Fish - Blue tang, yellow tang, 2 clowns, 2 chromis, 1 six line, 2 firefish.
Lights = 4x65 current usa sattalite fixture - $175

Deaths in the last couple years = 0

My findings after reefkeeping for 10 years: The simpler you make it, the easier and cost efective it is.

heres some photos.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/01reef.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/02reef.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/03reef.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/reef4.jpg

[fishes2889]

freakin' awesome tank man!

[salty3]

Looks very nice, except the algae on the bed. How long has it been set up? If your not using additives, what kind of salt are you using?

[salty3]

Do you test your tap water? Man with it looking that good I might turn one of my empty 55s in to a tank like yours as a expierement.

[salty3]

Whats a sealab 24? Sorry for asking soo many ? but I'm intrested in trying this my self, and see if it turns out as good. How much is next to never on the water changes?

[tang named junkyard]

I believe the salt originally was instant ocean. Nothing trick. I test nothing. I dont get freaked out with a little algae. Some of that success I believe is not overdueing the light wattage. I never and I mean never had hair algae. When I first started reefing I was a typical WW. I called the fish store all the time. All I did was test and test and test and had my hands in the tank cleaning algae. I was dosing stuff left and right till I finally burned my prize colt with an overdose of iodine. That's when I said forget all that crap. I want the system to take care of itself which is why I went with the DSB and as much LR i could stack. I just leave it all alone.

SeaLab 28s are a calcium block. I only throw one in when I see the coraline start to retreat a little. I havn't thrown one in in a while. I think tap has quite a bit of calcium as you can see if you ever take apart a water heater. It looks like Crushed coral in there from buildup.

Im not on any schedule on water changes. I would say sometimes I might do one once every 4-6 months maybe longer.

[edwing206]

very nice tank. i know what you mean about simple tanks. i am 15 years old with an allowance of 50 bucks a month. i have a 30 gallon tank, no sump, a cpr bakpak skimmer, fluval 204 canister filter, pc lights, cheap powerheads. and my tank is doing very well.

salty3- what algae are you talking about? thealgae between that sand and the glass? it's pretty hard to clean that without scratching the glass.

[salty3]

WOW thats amazing to have all that healthy life with no additives or anything. I will try this on one of my 55s and see how it turns out for me. The reason I asked about salt is my IO has low ph and calcium, so I figured you used a different salt to supliment the additives.

[salty3]

Its on the top of the bed too, not bad though.

[tang named junkyard]

The reason my sand looks like that is because I've been too cheap to buy a clean up crew. I will one of these days.

[tang named junkyard]

The reason my sand looks like that is because I've been too cheap to buy a clean up crew. I will one of these days.

[dailydriven911]

Nice job I just started about a year ago and was testing all the time in the begining as well. I have a smaller tank but my results are similar. I'm pretty much taking the same approach but if I had a ton of money I would probably go all out as well. :D
Nice job on the tank looks good!

[CeeGee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9119000#post9119000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
Well, I posted a post of people with simple setups and I can't believe I'm the only one. Sometimes I wish reef central would showcase people that have success that do things different but they only showcase systems that are high dollar and look like plans for the deathstar.


:) that is funny. BTW I am your father!


Nice tank. Not a big fan of softies but that looks really really nice.

[pony_killer]

hey that looks very similar to my tank!...except i spent a ton of money on flow...water changes...tests kits...ro water...and a hob sump. hmmm maybe i should have tried a different approach...but at least my sand bed looks better then yours =P

[RedEyeElf]

about time to add some sand to the base too
the D stands for DEEP sand bed:)

[drummereef]

Very nice tank, tang named junkyard! Beautiful example of coral growth. :thumbsup:

[oxkisses12ox]

I LOVE THIS THREAD!!! :) ... i hate spending tons of money on my tank , because everytime i do something goes wrong... plus im only 17 and i dont support myself :) ... anyways... i have a 14 gallon biocube (so everything was included haha) at firsti i was mixing my water all the time doing water changes ... testing water, cleaning the glass, picking up algae with a net, QT my fish, ETC now.. I DO NOTHING no water changes, no QT, no testing, no algae cleaning.... i even have some red slime algae on my sandbed.. but .. MY TANK IS GREAT :) and ever since i stopped screwing around with it and let it really become a working reef then my fish stopped dying..... i only spent $160 on my tank... (well the tank only not including sand LR fish ....)

[tang named junkyard]

Maybe other people can post their tanks. I'd like to see a section on building a reef on a budget. Some newbies are totally surprised and shocked by the simplicity of some tanks. I would say the grand total in my tank is:

90 gal tank $100
stand and canopy 150
lights 175
jabo heater 20
2 maxi jets 30
ramora 150
=650

[fishyz]

I'm setting up a 90g right now and I'm on a tight budget.

[xtm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9121039#post9121039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
I would say the grand total in my tank is:

90 gal tank $100
stand and canopy 150
lights 175
jabo heater 20
2 maxi jets 30
ramora 150
=650

You forgot to include the sand, LR, fish, corals, and other livestock ;)

But nice tank nevertheless!

[kwaters]

Good to hear. I am setting up a 55 gal. My husband is a metal fabricator and his lasers cut acrylic...he designed my sump and cut out the pieces for me $0.00. Tank, stand, canopy $0.00. I will invest in a skimmer for the sump, live rock and live sand...and of course some good lights.

We will see how it goes.

Kris

[Phillybean]

Great Tank. I also think that too many people go overboard on their tanks. A few comments on why your tank may be so good, while someone else doing the same thing your doing may not work.

1) Tap Water - Tap Water every where is different. In my town, a LFS on one side of the town uses tap water and has never had a problem, however accross down the TDS rating is huge. It really all depends where you are located on if you have good tap water or not. I would say 80% of the time, tap water isn't good quality

2) Lighting - It looks like most of your larger corals are higher up, while the smaller ones are closer to the bottom. Not sure if that is because they are newer or not, but coral placement had a large part on how they will grow, your coral placement gives most of your coral the best light they can get, with more intense lighting prehaps some of the lower ones would be larger/better color, but heck, they look great how picky can you get?

3) Immunity - I think it's safe to say your fish and corals are not living in "perfect" conditions, with-out regular testing, something will be too high or too low sooner then later. That said, if your fish are strong and used to that they won't die. If however, you always dose, always change some parameter, this will stress out the fish just as much poor quality, and won't create strong/healthy fish.

4) Algae - Although they might not look good, I think all Algae serves a purpose. Scrubing rock and cleaning sand because of the algae is not always a good think, a clean up crew to keep it under control is good, but you can never avoid it always.

Thats what I think anyway, that said great looking tank, not everyone would be able to have such a good looking tank doing what you do, but the key with reefing is, find something that works and stick with it which you've done!

[katpurdy]

just wondered if you thought about how successful the tank would be if you kept different stock? like if you had a predominantly sps tank would you have the same husbandry? I saw your sps at the top, not much color to it...would you change anything if your stock was not lps and softies?

[Racso]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

You are here showing that you don't need certain equipment to have something nice. A lot of people say "you NEED this, and you NEED that!"

I am not going to say that your tank is in the best of conditions and if your tank did crash, I honestly wouldn't be suprised. But I would also say that given the conditions, your tank IS a success.

[tang named junkyard]

The reason my digi dont have much color is because I keep them under a different light spectrum. They do however grow like weeds. The frag I got from the guy was kept under hylides. My stuff is kept under PC's. Things that are yellow under haylides are more of a tan in my tank. I don't mind it. The frogspawns, torches and hammers I would put up against any tank under any condition. As far as crashing, ANY tank can crash. In the 10 years I've done this I have yet to see a crash. I had a 44 gal before this with simular results so I know it's a solid method.

[tang named junkyard]

One thing that seems to have made a big difference in growth is adding flake food to my tank. I use to only feed formula 2. Then I went to a reef variety flake and not only did the fish look good but the corals seem to really start growing.

[Holmez221b]

All I have to say is your tank looks amazing!!! I'm currently building a 90 gallon reef and I hope it looks as good as your tank one day. I think the reason this hobby can be so difficult is because there is so many ways to do things. You have a more simple set up and someone else can spend thousands and still not get a result as good as yours....

[corals b 4 bills]

When I first saw the thread I thought "oh no this is going to be ugly", I was surprised how nice your tank looks for a bare bones set up, great job! Is there alot of maintainence involved? anyways keep up the good work!

[tang named junkyard]

my tank is low to no maitenance other than using the magfloat on the glass and topping off the water. Here's some more photos.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/reef11.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/08reefdark.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/06reef.jpg

[clayspst]

i have learned the less you put in the tank (additives) the more stable it becomes

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/10reefspawn.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/07reef.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/torch.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/09reefhammer.jpg

[cubber]

Great looking tank! I am also a firm believer in keeping things as simple as possible. The simpler it is the less things there are to cause problems, leak, or break. As my old drum teacher back in high school used to say "keep it simple stupid!" wow that was a long time ago...

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/yellow.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/diji.jpg

[tang named junkyard]

I guess the reason I started this tread was to show newbies that you dont need to get into your kids college fund to have a reef tank. I also wanted to show reefcentral that they should aknowledge other successful ways of reefing. Maybe a barebones section.

[archie1709]

These are a couple of pictures of my tank. I won't lie to you. I thought I was saving tons of money but I realized I spent in excess of $2900 in 2006 over filter pads, additives, etc.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/71230DSCF2029.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/71230DSCF2049.JPG

HOB Filters - $39/each
3 Powerheads - $115 total
4X65W Orbit - $250
Prizm skimmer - $60

Cost only include additives (Calcium, Strontium Molybdenum, Iodine, Purple Up), and filter pads.

How do you keep coraline algae on the downlow?

[buffalo123]

What are you using for the sand bed and how deep is it?
Bravo to you ,Sometimes i have a laugh at the amount of equipment on some reef i see on forums. Sure they look great but still subject to the same failure as a reef with little equipment.

[tprize]

You know he's right, Take a look at this tank. I had this tank for over a year, and the skimmer I had on it was a Sea clone so you know it's not that good. I never did water changes, but I did add supplements, once every 2 weeks or so, and not the full amount, The filter system was a canister filter system that ran Purigen with great success. And the lighting was simply pc,s

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q19/tprize/DSC00001-1.jpg

29 Gallon Acrylic
Used Tank with Filter and stand $175
Jebo Lighting pc 2x65w $90
Live rock 30 Pounds x $2 used $60
You can always find someone selling rock cheap while tearing down a tank.
Sand used $10
Seaclone Skimmer used $20
Total tank cost = $355

[cristhiam]

Great tank!!
I'm too for the simple tank, I dose kalk 24/7 and use 40Ws bulbs 6500K with combination of 110Ws Actinics, I have from clams to SPS :) I use for ballast IceCap 660. I do water changes every 3 - 4 weeks about 20G in my 125. My 125 is 1 year next month! but my clams and corals were in a 55 for over two years with the same method.

a thread of my tank at 10 months :)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=998825

[tang named junkyard]

Great tanks guys, keep them coming.

The only thing I've had a hard time getting to take off are these zoos. They need phyto I think. They dont look bad, they just dont go crazy like everything else.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/imracin68j/reef4/reef22.jpg

[cristhiam]

Those are palys they are different than zoas, I have couple colonies and they seem to grow slow. I have mine for at least 2 years I problably have about 40 polys.

[Kennyboy1984]

I bet if you spent a little bit more money on your lighting and tested your calcium you could add some sps.

[tang named junkyard]

the stuff in my tank has to be able to fend off mushrooms. The only car i do is keeping the shrooms away from the digis. Everything else can defend itself. It seems like a fight for light in my tank right now as I will bet in 6 months everything is covered. If i added sps I would be in the tank constantly trying to cut back the mushrroms which would be a hassle. Maybe someday I'll try something diffferent but simplicty and cost is the key to this tank.

Plus I like corals with movement. It's relaxing and feels alive. I wish i could add plants but my tangs are ruthless on anything that is plant related.

[Kennyboy1984]

My 125 is kind of like yours but it hasn't been up nearly as long. Remora HOB skimmer, seio powerheads, sumpless, dsb, some live rock, and no water changes whatsoever so far. The only thing wrong with my tank is ich outbreak. Lost some nice fish :(

[eidillitih]

Man, your tank is niiice!! Kinda looks like my tank when I when I first started out. I saw these types of set-ups all the time when I work at the pet store. Lots of people do have success with simple set-up. You can't use reefcentral as a gauge of how most people achieve success. But to be honest you can only keep less demanding coral in tank. Fish get use to certain quaility they can tolerate it. Problem may come when you add new fish that demand better quailty. Heres a picture of my nano 24 with just carbon, filter and heater, Trust me it's not hard to do.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3078/nano1vc6.jpg

This is in my office, really all I do is throw corals in it, a toss food in there every other day. I do though have to add 2 part Ca. Alk. because I have coral with skeleton base that will demand Ca.

[tang named junkyard]

I totally agree with you. I'm not saying my way is better than any other way. I'm just trying to illustrate that you can have a nice reef tank that's affordable. Some people out trick themselves by reading something they have to have to make their tank look like Joe blows. I don't freak over my tank anymore. Me and my family enjoy it alot more and my pocketbook REALLLLLLLLY enjoys is more. I really don't spend anything more on it other than food and an occasional light bulb swap when it goes bad. To some people building sophisticated systems is half the fun. For those who can't afford that there is a solution.

If I could only keep my houseplants alive like my corals I'd be content. That's a different subject.

[archie1709]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9127608#post9127608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
To some people building sophisticated systems is half the fun. For those who can't afford that there is a solution.

If I could only keep my houseplants alive like my corals I'd be content. That's a different subject.

You got it on the money. I can't really mention anything bad about hobbyists who put a good portion of their hobby money on equipment because that do them is a hobby.

For example, some aquarists are really good with woodwork and a large part of their "high" is creating amazing stand and canopy setups from scratch by hand and simple tools. They spend no more than $30 on a stand and canopy that would normally cost $500. So that is great savings for them and it is fun.

Other hobbyists are masters at piping and creating baffles and such. They enjoy putting things together and figuring out whether Mr. Waterflow gives them a thumbs up or a thumbs down. That's their high. With all those plumbing hobby incorporated in their aquarium hobby, they end up buying gadgets that would complete their plumbing.

So there are different magnitudes of enthusiasm in this hobby which is what makes this, and all of you involved here in RC, the greatest hobby of my life.

PS: Some have the wrong hobby of buying this specimen and that specimen because it looks great until he/she starts unethically killing the specimen inadvertantly...that is another story. That is why we have folks like the Tang Police and the Puffer Police. Peeeeeaaace!!!

[eidillitih]

i agree with you, some people put alot into their tanks. You probably look at my tank spec and think I do to. But I've wheeled and dealed for my equipment. I love this hobby and if you want to keep some of the high end stuff, your gonna have to get the high end equipment.

[tang named junkyard]

RC at times only seems to focus on elebrate setups as benchmarks for successful reefs.

[eidillitih]

Very true!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[conchead]

Great thread, all my corals get is roadkill, sorry no pics.

[dc_909]

Here is my low budget tank.
Modified powerheads, HOB millenium 2000
Weekly water changes of 12gallons
Homemade 2 part additive

Most expensive parts were the lights



http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f304/dc_909/Full12.jpg

[eidillitih]

niiice!!! I love the Blasto.

[FatmanII]

Awsome tank, I aggre about keeping things simple.

[dragonforce]

This is what I like to see/hear!!! I come from the easier is easier school of thought too. Huge thumbs up from me!

[tang named junkyard]

I did a water change today not because I think my tank needed it but because I want to document how long I go without actually changing water.

Awesome tanks.. Keep them rolling in.

[tang named junkyard]

Dc, what lights were in that tank

[virginiadiver69]

Great thread! I am just starting out and even though I am a gear/tech head and would love to do a "major build" like some I see, It is just not possible. My limiting factors are money, space and money.
My hat is off to those who can build the "Death star" in there den, I mean it. I think they are the envelope pushers that man is at our core. Let's not forget that all of this shiny equipment and flashing lights is meant to keep fish and coral alive.
How can we start a Bare bones or reefer on a budget forum?
I bet the misconception that you need a PhD or a trust fund to run a reef tank hinder this hobby.

[TheMcs]

So you're the one chicken that made it across the road? (Calfo reference)

[dc_909]

Tang,

that picture is with 2 175w Iwasaki 15k halides and 2 54W T5s (1 UVL SA and 1 UVL Aquasun) there is also 2 layers of screen in that pic (for acclimation)

I have since added 2 other T5s (ATI B+) they were backordered when I originally ordered them. There is also no screen on anymore.

I will post another pic when I can

[tang named junkyard]

You know a fellow worker of mine has always had an interest in reef tanks. Something to do with his 2 kids. When they go into the fish store they are intimidated by all the stuff needed to run a reef. They also think the reef tank is something you need to slave over night and day. I told him that it doesn't need to be like that. He showed his wife this thread and now they appear to be serious about starting up a reef.

[siding88]

awesome tank, i just love when people do it simple, in year and a half my tank has been up ive done ZERO water changes, i just run my skimmer wet /w auto top off,check this and check that but not to extreme, no sps here though i'm into softies thats why i'm not to critical, alittle outbreak of agae just because i feed everyday,,,,,,,, just remember no matter how perfect someones tank is there will always be death and we will never know the exact reason

[bgwil99]

Tang named junkyard, what are those tiny star shapes on the front glass in your first pic? Is this some sort of sea star? If so can you please ID for me? I set up a 29gal last week with nothing but LR now. I was showing my daughter your pics and we were wondering about the little stars. A few minutes later we found one on the back of our tank. What a coincidence.

Nice thread it reminds me of the K.I.S.S. principle. I read a book on reef keeping weeks before I set up my tank. It gave instructions on setting up a 29gal. It advised 30 to 40 lbs. of LR, a little sand, heater, a few power heads and good lights. That was about it. After spending hours on RC I kinda forgot about that book. I will try to focus on a simple system. Thanks.

[tang named junkyard]

I'm not sure of the name of the star fish but there are Thousands litereally. The look deformed as various legs are bigger than the others. I posted a pic here a long time ago and got posts that they were bad and would eat my corals. I havn't really seen that yet. I figured if it were true my tank would be all rocks.

I think at time LFS also push stuff on customers they dont need.

[Trilithon3]

How 'bout this for cheap? Take a 110g. tank you bought 13 years ago, borrow a 55g. from your brother for a sump (while you're at it take the overflows too), "Oh you're not using that light fixture? Great!", find a place where oolitic sand occurs naturally, add some nice carbonate rock left over from Lake Bonneville, then spend hundreds (thousands??) on critters.
This is the 13th least expensive hobby I've ever had!

[tang named junkyard]

pix?

[buffalo123]

Someone out there probably have a nice sps tank that consist of sandbed of some sort, powerheads,lights and skimmer. Its the nature of this hobby what one person says is "can't" the other have it working for years. Just look at the plenum threads many say it don't work, DSB some say no good some say great. Must be really hard for the beginner.

[Kennyboy1984]

I think TOTM goes to tanks that look stunning to the eye and not necessarily have all the bells and whistles. So it may be a coincidence that these stunning tanks happen to have thousands of dollars of equipment. I can say that the majority of the tanks I see here on rc elicit a "meh" when I see them. Why should we care about these average tanks? Including my own :) What I really want to see is a stunning and gorgeous reef comparable to totm's with minimal equipment and maitenence involved.

[tang named junkyard]

I disagree. I think people want to come on here and learn how to keep a reef successfully. If you want to be awed go to the local city aquarium. I wish RC would focus more on techniques to reef keeping rather than showcasing the elaberate more times than not. I think there is a place for that but there is also a place for realistic reef keeping as well.

[archie1709]

Naah, they're never going to put anything there with less than $20,000 US in equipment. It's always been about the rich folks who burn tons of money, or middle class folks who are up in eyeballs in debt while keeping an elaborate setup.

[odysseysteve]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9123878#post9123878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
I guess the reason I started this tread was to show newbies that you dont need to get into your kids college fund to have a reef tank. I also wanted to show reefcentral that they should aknowledge other successful ways of reefing. Maybe a barebones section.

I love the idea of a barebones section. Your tank is proof that this can be done without over complicating the process. Thanks!

[pammy]

Hey all. I almost nix'd the idea of starting a salt water tank several times after hearing in my LFS and on different forums about the massive amount of equipment I need. I knew I'd need good lights, a protein skimmer, power heads, and a heater or two....and was planning on investing a good amount of money ($500) on Good quality Live Rock and Live Sand. What I didn't know, was I'd need a sump, a large external pump, etc. I thought with the live rock/sand, I wouldn't need a ton of mechanical equipment.

My LFS recommended a sump, and gave me prices between $160 and $275.....and an external pump for $225, and said I'd probably want an internal pump too (did he mean a power head??)

Price quickly added up to over $2500 for a 55g corner bow front tank....before adding any fish or coral....food, test kits, misc equipment etc. It's not that I can't afford it....but I do want money left over to do things like SCUBA ! :)

So....I can do this correctly with good results....with a hang on skimmer and a couple of power heads (without $500+ for sump and external / internal pumps) ?

I want a very good setup, something that my life in the tank will thrive on, but I don't want overkill.

If I'm going to skip the sump and external pump, what is the BEST (quality and reliability) hang on back protein skimmer out there (for 55g tank). I've heard good and bad about the
Remora C . Anything better than that one? Best powerheads? Best heaters?

Have made up my mind on the tank, TBS Live Rock and Live Sand.

I ordered the following book and it should arrive on Friday. Still in the research phase before I actually set up a tank.

Natural Reef Aquariums: Simplified Approaches to Creating Living Saltwater Microcosms

Thanks
Pam

[Joshua1023]

Hey Pam. You got it . Tullocks aproach in that book is great. I followed his guidelines to a tee while setting up my tank and have had great success with it so far. I must admit that I do use a sump. More for a place to hook equipment to than anything else. I just like the clean look of my tank without all the stuff hanging on the back. I planned on a sump from the beginning and bought a RR tank. You do not have to spent mega bucks on your sump. A 20 gl tank will do or even a 10 if your pressed for space. A mag 7 of 9 for a return pump and your in business. Another bonus of using a sump is that it allows you to use reusable filter material that can be rinsed and but back in the sump many times. I do have alot of gadgets, most of wich are not absolutely needed, but help to ensure my success. (in my mind anyway) I search around for the best prices for a while before I buy anything, and can usually find what I'm looking for at half price. Best of luck to you.

Happy Reefing

Josh

[virginiadiver69]

Pam, sumps are nice if you have the space for one but not mandatory. If you do go with one though, a used tank is perfect. In fact many people use a Rubbermaid tub! How simple is that? Reefing is very much like your other interests. You can get as elaborate as you want. I have seen plenty of old school guys on the reef with an old style horse shoe BC and double hose regulator. They had the same great dive that everybody else did! Or people on the mountain with rental skis :eek1: and they were blowing away the guy with his fancy European skis.
One last bit of advice: beware the advice given by those that list all of there high priced EQUIPMENT in there signature line and NONE of there livestock!

[tang named junkyard]

I have a remora and it's "OK" I almost think I could run the tank without an export but I still would advise a decent skimmer. Do a seach for skimmers on RC.

Maybe we can be a candidtate for thread of the month for the reef mag. lol

[SptfireXIV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9149191#post9149191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
I disagree. I think people want to come on here and learn how to keep a reef successfully. If you want to be awed go to the local city aquarium. I wish RC would focus more on techniques to reef keeping rather than showcasing the elaberate more times than not. I think there is a place for that but there is also a place for realistic reef keeping as well.

The entire purpose of TOTM is to showcase stunning tanks where the owners have obviously put in a lot of time and effort, not to show how to successfully keep a reef. Its usually a combination of the corals they keep, the aesthetic value of the tank, and their skill at photography.


IMO, it has very little to do with the equipment they are running. Besides, isn't it the members who vote for TOTM anyway?



Now, I'm not saying your tank looks bad. I think it looks great. In fact its definitely one of the best looking bare bones tanks I've ever seen, but that doesn't mean that I would compare it to, say, danano's T5 tank, or David Saxby's huge display.

[RyanM]

I hate to say this but I really dont think this thread is helping "new to reef" people out there. While it is doable to keep a saltwater tank with out all the tons of equipment it isnt the best way for new people to start out. You get away with it in your tank but many wouldnt have the same luck. They will not get the equipment needed and have major problems. I do agree that most of the so called gadgets are not needed, reactors and such but stability is the main reason for most if not all of the "Extra" equipment.

I was like you with my first tank. Had it up and running for 18+ months. For the first 6 months I tested everything and dosed daily. Water changes once a week. Kept an eye on everything.
Then the longer it went the less I checked. Got lassy and only did water chages when ever I thought about it. Stoped testing ever.
Well a year later I had a major crash. Took out my tank. Cant say for sure what happened because I stoped testing and doing regular maintenance. My tank looked fantastic right till the end.

Its like changing your oil in your car, It is said you need to change it every 3000 miles. Does that meen you have to?
No, but dont complain if at 75,000 miles your engine is shot.
Just because it can go for 75,000 miles with out changing it is no reason to tell a new driver that you dont need to change it at all.
True it will go much longer than 3000 miles but you get the point.


Most people on here want new to the hobby people to succeed.
Like I said above stability is IMO is the key. All of the "extra" equipment that is recomended is for that reason alone. Hand dosing can be done but if you dont do it just right your only making the tank less stable. Reactors and refuges serve a purpose. As does everything else that people use in there tank.

Not doing the things that are recomended by most long term reef keepers is not only risky but bad advise to give somone new to the hobby. Just my opinion.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9149191#post9149191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
I disagree. I think people want to come on here and learn how to keep a reef successfully. If you want to be awed go to the local city aquarium. I wish RC would focus more on techniques to reef keeping rather than showcasing the elaberate more times than not. I think there is a place for that but there is also a place for realistic reef keeping as well.

Most of the TOTMs are much more awe inspiring than the local public aquarium.

[RichConley]

Pammy, its probably more economical to build a sump, and buy a half decent skimmer. (Like a $100 reef octopus) than not run a sump, and waste your money on a $150+ Remora.

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9164086#post9164086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RyanM

I was like you with my first tank. Had it up and running for 18+ months. For the first 6 months I tested everything and dosed daily. Water changes once a week. Kept an eye on everything.
Then the longer it went the less I checked. Got lassy and only did water chages when ever I thought about it. Stoped testing ever.


I don't think anybody is advocating not doing water changes or not testing your water parameters. That is just basic tank maintenance. If anybody does recommend this kind of neglect it is just a matter of time before they will regret it.
I think the main push of this thread is to argue the notion that a beginning saltwater enthusiast will fail without a full blown TOTM(equipment room, closed loop plumbing, external pumps, MH lighting etc.) style set up.

[RyanM]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9164766#post9164766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69

I think the main push of this thread is to argue the notion that a beginning saltwater enthusiast will fail without a full blown TOTM(equipment room, closed loop plumbing, external pumps, MH lighting etc.) style set up.

Ive never read 1 single post where someone said you must have all the high end equipment or you will fail.

With that being said, If you start off cheep then have to redo it later because you didnt plan ahead and cant keep the tank you see others have isnt saving you any money.

As for the part about reqular maint. He says he never does water changes and is boasting that his tank is fine. Bad habits are nothing to boast about. Even if they work for a while.

BTW, It is a nice softy tank. But I wouldnt give a wooden nickle as a bet as to how long it will remain.

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9164766#post9164766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
I don't think anybody is advocating not doing water changes or not testing your water parameters. That is just basic tank maintenance. If anybody does recommend this kind of neglect it is just a matter of time before they will regret it.
I think the main push of this thread is to argue the notion that a beginning saltwater enthusiast will fail without a full blown TOTM(equipment room, closed loop plumbing, external pumps, MH lighting etc.) style set up.

Nobody has said anything close to needing all bell and whistles to to get started. But what I would say and what most people due is try to buy once. Buy just in case I want to upgrade or move to the higher end stuff.

If any has a extreme colored coral tank that is bare bones, I like to see it. Not just mushroom, cause my five year on keep those in his 5 gal tank, 18w light.

Most hobbist on RC want the high-end corals, SPS tank. That's why you see the high-end equipment. It is difficult to have a bare bones SPS tank for a long period of time.

[tang named junkyard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9165119#post9165119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RyanM
Ive never read 1 single post where someone said you must have all the high end equipment or you will fail.

With that being said, If you start off cheep then have to redo it later because you didnt plan ahead and cant keep the tank you see others have isnt saving you any money.

As for the part about reqular maint. He says he never does water changes and is boasting that his tank is fine. Bad habits are nothing to boast about. Even if they work for a while.

BTW, It is a nice softy tank. But I wouldnt give a wooden nickle as a bet as to how long it will remain.

My stuff is cheap and I won't be redoing it. I've had the tank up for 6 plus years. I did the same setup with a 44 gallon that ran for around 5. Same results. I believe my habbit isnt bad. In contrary, I believe this to be very stable. I just don't want people coming on RC thinking they have to have things they don't. You don't need to be a slave to your reef. I once was, and now I'm not. The less I added things the more stable the tank became. When I lived near the coast one day I went out to a local reef and did a nitrate test. I was surprised to find out that it was not 0. We strive for that here though. I still beleive that at times RC doesn't support other proven stratagies to Reef keeping. When I had my 44 7-8 years ago another reefer said the same thing. He bet my tank would crash eventually. Well, it's still here. My fish death is minimal at best. In the last 5 years I lost one clown fish that I had since I started this hobby. Hows that for success.

My tank isn't all softies. Look at the photos I posted.

[RyanM]

If your tank cant keep a clown fish alive I wouldnt count that as success. They are about as hardy a fish as you can get. And when It died Ill bet you picked up your husbandry practices to put it back in shape so you didnt lose any more.

But this is not what the topic was about. Its about tanks on a buget and nothing wrong with that. Didnt meen to go this far off topic. Im on a very tight budget my self.

[RichConley]

tang named junkyard.

YOu have all lagoon corals (yes, digitata is a lagoon coral, not a reef crest coral.) so yeah, you basically have all softies. I dont know, but in 5 years, you'd have a lot bigger corals if you maintained the tank. In a tank that size, in 5 years, there shouldnt be any space left. You've got slow growth, you just dont realize it.

[eidillitih]

No additive?, no water change?, no parameter checks? How do you know it's stable. Cause nothing is going wrong? You cannot say a tank is stable without doing parameter checks. I've seen many, many, many tanks that look good one day and something happens the next. I'm not saying your will, I'm just paying devil advocate. I like you tank but I don't think your husbandtry would be considered a good idea. It's one thing to go cheap but it's another story not to monitor the parameters. I the truth IS, that system wouldn't work with more demanding coral. All the coral in your tank are the same that I'm going to put in my boys 5 gal tank. Those coral are easy to keep. You don't even need a skimmer to keep those even the brown digititas.

[kappaknight]

Requirement for a softies tank are drastically different from an SPS / clam tank though. You can get away with not skimming and all the other stuff in a softies tank.

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166326#post9166326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eidillitih
No additive?, no water change?, no parameter checks? How do you know it's stable. Cause nothing is going wrong? You cannot say a tank is stable without doing parameter checks. I've seen many, many, many tanks that look good one day and something happens the next. I'm not saying your will, I'm just playing devil advocate. I like your tank but I don't think your husbandtry would be considered a good ideal. It's one thing to go cheap but it's another story not to monitor the parameters. I the truth IS, that system wouldn't work with more demanding coral. All the coral in your tank are the same that I'm going to put in my boys 5 gal tank. Those coral are easy to keep. You don't even need a skimmer to keep those even the brown digititas.

[syrinx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9165119#post9165119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RyanM
Ive never read 1 single post where someone said you must have all the high end equipment or you will fail.

With that being said, If you start off cheep then have to redo it later because you didnt plan ahead and cant keep the tank you see others have isnt saving you any money.

As for the part about reqular maint. He says he never does water changes and is boasting that his tank is fine. Bad habits are nothing to boast about. Even if they work for a while.

BTW, It is a nice softy tank. But I wouldnt give a wooden nickle as a bet as to how long it will remain.


You need to get out more- I have had major issues with people telling beginers they may as well not keep a tank if they can`t afford this or that piece of gear. There are people, like it or not, that can get a tank balanced to where it is pretty self sustaining. I don`t advise it, but I don`t complain about it and wish it ill. In all the experience I have- tech tanks crash as hard and as often as non tech tanks. I think the most successful tank is where the technique and equipment is in synergy with the user- there are low tec people and high tec- and forcing one to the other is like trying to force sexual orientation.

[syrinx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166326#post9166326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eidillitih
No additive?, no water change?, no parameter checks? How do you know it's stable. Cause nothing is going wrong? You cannot say a tank is stable without doing parameter checks. I've seen many, many, many tanks that look good one day and something happens the next. I'm not saying your will, I'm just paying devil advocate. I like you tank but I don't think your husbandtry would be considered a good idea. It's one thing to go cheap but it's another story not to monitor the parameters. I the truth IS, that system wouldn't work with more demanding coral. All the coral in your tank are the same that I'm going to put in my boys 5 gal tank. Those coral are easy to keep. You don't even need a skimmer to keep those even the brown digititas.


1.I would advocate water changes.
2.There is no reason for him to have equipment to keep coral he doesn`t have.
3.- proofread!
4. No reason to test parameters when the occupants are telling you things are fine.

[tang named junkyard]

You guys have missed the point of this thread. I'm not saying my tank looks better than yours etc. However, by most standards my tank would be considered a success "for a softie tank" or what ever you guys want to call it. Especially to newbies. One fish loss in 8 years is a pretty good track record. It probably is a tank that beginners should look into. It's a way of reefing that reefers on a budget should look into. Would I say not doing water changes is good? Of course not. But it does illustrate that basic tanks without all the gizmos can be successful even in a tank like mine which has minimal upkeep. I believe this tank really does take care of itself for the most part. How many reefers have wasted countless hours and countless amounts of money. If you want a high dollar tank than by all means get your self in debt and build it. If you want to enjoy a cost effeciant stable saltwater reef than there are other alternatives.

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166421#post9166421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by syrinx
1.I would advocate water changes.
2.There is no reason for him to have equipment to keep coral he doesn`t have.
3.- proofread!
4. No reason to test parameters when the occupants are telling you things are fine.

LMAO, yeah I do that all the time, I proofread after I submited it. went to correct and something happen, that why their's the double post. But I guess your self-employment is a English tutor:lol:

[syrinx]

I agree I would rather see people encouraged to try. As long as a beginer can restrain his desires to keep animals outside his abilities. This also touches on the subject of why reef keeping is said to be so difficult, or only costly techiques can be utilised. First is the concept of people getting stuff that dies and then its "well no one can keep it without this" or if that item is already owned "its impossible to keep". Wheras proper animal purchase and study beforehand would have prevented the loss. Most of the super tech setups are either owned by tech heads- or people that have chased their failures with dollars- and the latter far outnumbers the former.

[eidillitih]

tang named junkyard, your tank is great and methods are not standard but it works for you. I wouldn't change for nothing. Reefing on a budget? I've been their and actually, I still do. My budgets just a little bigger.

syrinx, sometime when you notice something wrong, it's too late.

[Joshua1023]

here-here

[syrinx]

I actually was ruder- and edited it. Sorry I was a jerk!

[eidillitih]

I always encourage people to enter the hobby. It's not very difficult. But even still with tang named junkyard tank, it still cost about $400 or $500. That, to alot of people is a alot of money to spend on a fish tank.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166424#post9166424 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tang named junkyard
You guys have missed the point of this thread. I'm not saying my tank looks better than yours etc. However, by most standards my tank would be considered a success "for a softie tank" or what ever you guys want to call it. Especially to newbies. One fish loss in 8 years is a pretty good track record. It probably is a tank that beginners should look into. It's a way of reefing that reefers on a budget should look into. Would I say not doing water changes is good? Of course not. But it does illustrate that basic tanks without all the gizmos can be successful even in a tank like mine which has minimal upkeep. I believe this tank really does take care of itself for the most part. How many reefers have wasted countless hours and countless amounts of money. If you want a high dollar tank than by all means get your self in debt and build it. If you want to enjoy a cost effeciant stable saltwater reef than there are other alternatives.

tANG, The whole point hs is making is that trying to keep a tank like this is a BAD idea for a newbie. You know when your coral is telling you something is wrong. A newbie wont. You know that you have to chose certain animals, a newbie doesnt. Telling a newbie he doesnt need equipment is akin to telling a newbie he can rockclimb without ropes.

Sure he can, but if he makes a mistake, stuff is going to die. Equipment can act as a safety net.

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166598#post9166598 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by syrinx
I actually was ruder- and edited it. Sorry I was a jerk!



Are you talking to me.

[tang named junkyard]

I'll b e setting up a co-workers tank who thought a reef would be way to complicated. The simplicity of my tank has him wanting to try it. I will set it up parallel to my last 2. With the corals that I keep I would imagine another success. I've had some emails on what's in my tank so here's my tank.

My reccomendations for barebones.

• 3-4 inch sand bed (bottom 1/3 layer fine sand)
• as much live rock you can stack leaving big gaps for water flow. High platows for light sensitive corals.
• One hang on the back decent skimmer
•_4x65 watt pc for 100 or less.
• good quality heater
• min 2 maxi-jet 1200 ( or equivilent) one at each side of the tank pointed upward
• decent cleanup crew - (something I have yet to get.)

[archie1709]

Dude, I dunno about equipment acting as a safety net. I mean, if we are talking about generator back-up, then yes during a power outage. But equipments as safety nets can be debatable from here. Go ahead folks, start the debate.

this is a healthy and good thread.

Wait 'til PaulB starts putting his two cents on this even more. He has it cheap.

[carlso63]

I dunno, I would have to agree maybe a little more with TNJ as far as the "gizmo overkill" thing going on here at RC.

Pick a thread about any piece of equipment, and you will find posters advising that this particular MH bulb is so much better than that particular bulb, PAR this, PAR that... this in-sump skimmer is soooo much better than that in-sump skimmer, you need 10X flow in a reef, no - it's 20x flow, etc....

While I think that all those comparos and all that info has its place, I would agree with TNJ that it can be a little overwhelming for a newbie. Especially when they go to their trusted local LFS and he advises the newbie that THIS bulb he sells is really the best, THIS other skimmer he sells really is better, etc. Alot of it is akin to splitting hairs for most of us. If you buy good, name-brand equipment - and, use it correctly, you will usually be OK.

Don't get me wrong, advising a poster who asks "Whats a good skimmer for my 75?" against buying a Seaclone is a good thing; but when it turns into a 15-page thread on whether a BM 150 is better than an ESS and, well, you need to spend $400 - 500 on a skimmer for your 75 gallon tank, because, if you spend less you will just eventually be buying that $500 skimmer anyway....well.... that's GOTTA turn alot of novices right off this hobby!

And I do think it is rather refreshing that some of our fellow RC reefers embrace that "DIY, barebones" spirit. Back on my home site, www.utahreefs.com it is actually a pretty big theme of the whole site (Utahns being as notoriously, uh, "frugal" as they are). For example, anytime a newbie asks that "What's a good skimmer?" question, at least one reply in the thread is going to say "just so you know, you DON'T have to run a skimmer to be successful..." usually followed by a couple of pics of the authors pretty decent looking tank(s)... and YES, some are SPS tanks :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:

So, while I don't necessarily agree with TNJs entire philosophy on reefkeeping, I would argue that newbies have more important things to worry about than his method of reefing "poisoning" their minds. Like avoiding the urge to add too many fish, all at once. Like being patient when cycling the tank, not thinking "well the nitrite is . almost zero, I can add a fish or two now". Like investing in a good book or two (or three) on proper marine husbandry before you even attempt to do a marine tank.

I'm sure we all can think of other "newbie" mistakes because at one time or another we have all made them ("I'm sure I can get that Moorish Idol to eat in my lovely 3- month old tank at home; it is just 'scared' here in this bare LFS tank")...

[kwaters]

Oh my....this forum is bringing back nightmares of the "other" forum I was soooo into....

Nature is nature...I have three dogs...they get 1 shot a year and never see the vet to have their teeth cleaned, toe-nails clips, poop checked for worms. One is 12 and 1/2, one is 9 and the other is 2. They are fine because I love them and if something major goes wrong...I'd take care of it.

I have a Snowflake corn snake that has NO lighting what so ever...just a branch, a bowl of water, an old tank heater (the kind you stick to the bottom) and some shavings. BTW he is now 6 or so and very healthy.

I have a 1 year old veiled cham...I engrossed myself in another forum about herps, "learning all of the things" I needed to. Its a good thing I have a good "filter" of my own. He has a good cage, good lights, food and water every day and is doing great. BTW, I built his cage for $40.

I have a FWT that has quarterly water changes, a plucky that is about 8" long. I leave it alone and it is fine.

Now...as a "NEWBIE" to the reef hobby...does this site scare me? Heck ya!!! The dollar signs are rolling in across my eyes like cherries and lemons on a slot machine. Can I afford all of the bells and whistles? Probably...but is it not ok to get quality, basic equipment that serves the same purpose?

After reading all of these threads....I AM LOST!!!! I don't know what kind of protein skimmer to buy (even though I have looked at THOUSANDS over the last few weeks), a sump, a pump, an overflow...ahhh!

Ok (after the screaming and hair pulling)...I have and will continue to research. I will DIY alot of things in my tank...according to how much I think I should spend.. I will care for my tank, but I will not let it rule my life. I will vow to go with the quality, "barebones" equipment to get the job done and keep my reef healthy! I will rely on the advice of my LFS because his fish are healthy and his set up works!

Further and finally....I will make mistakes and I will learn from them! Thanks for all for the advice on this forum...and to those who have the time and money to go full boar...hats off to ya!!

Kris

[carlso63]

Exactly as I was just saying...

I couldn't have put it better than your example if I had written it myself.


FWIW - my first SW setup (27 -!!gasp!! - years ago) featured such "cutting edge" technology as the 'UGF' (undergravel filter), bleached coral skeletons for decor (no such animal as Live Rock back then), and 'dolomite' gravel (a 'DSB' was just a gleam in somebodies eye...)

Don't let it freak you out. My best advice is find someone who actually has a nice setup (Aqaurium clubs are a wonderful resource) and look at how they do it. Follow their advice, throw in a little of what you see here at RC, and trust your gut.


Good Luck.

[eidillitih]

Very well said guys, cause you can get it done without the tech. . That's the one thing I hear from people when they come over to my house. "I heard it too hard and cost too much" Well, it's all relativie. What hard and time consuming to you, may be my form of relaxation. I love working with my tank and don't find it to be time consuming. What you consider to be pricey to you may be well within my budget. Why do people buy Escalade when they can buy Alvalanche, why buy Lexus, when you can buy Alvalon. Cause you afford it and that's why I believe most people buy high-end equipment. Why not if your in it for the long run. It's basic Econ 2010. But it can be done with a lower budget. Me myself, I like some of the high-end stuff just cause I think it's cool. Like the aquacontroller, I plan on buying one, I think they cool. Can be hooked up to your computer TOO, man can't waite. I don't need it but maybe can be considered a waste but I want it.

[tang named junkyard]

This is a great thread and good points on both sides. I hope we can still see some more bare bones pics. I'll be taking some more soon. A fellow reefer where I live has some harder to keep corals and I will grab a couple frags and try my luck.

[tang named junkyard]

This is a great thread and good points on both sides. I hope we can still see some more bare bones pics. I'll be taking some more soon. A fellow reefer where I live has some harder to keep corals and I will grab a couple frags and try my luck.

[archie1709]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9171839#post9171839 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eidillitih
Me myself, I like some of the high-end stuff just cause I think it's cool. Like the aquacontroller, I plan on buying one, I think they cool. Can be hooked up to your computer TOO, man can't waite. I don't need it but maybe can be considered a waste but I want it.

Well, not necessarily to make things worse here but, with all due respect, the high end stuff you aim for aren't just "cool" but are beneficial to your time as well. I mean, if you look at it this way, there can be a correlation to time spent on the tank AND types of costly equipment.

Calcium Reactor definitely beats putting three capfuls of calcium in a cup of fresh water every two or three nights. An auto top-off cuts down on the manual top-off time. Kalkwasser helps reduce the dosing of buffer and such. A Deltec skimmer allows for a more ideal water quality for corals. A programmable Tunze allows for more swimming space for fish away from massive powerheads, helps keep detrius from settling, induces beneficial expansion of corals, etc.

I mean, what I am trying to say is that don't look down at yourself for being able to afford expensive stuff for your hobby, if in case this thread implies you have to be on a low down about your fascination to top-end stuff.

I can't afford such so I can either be sour about it, or be creative about it. I started with just Topfin powerfilters from Petsmart and I still have them. I have three space-consuming powerheads with filtering attachments in them in the tank. I low-balled my skimmer.

Those are not mistakes for me. That is all I can afford. But sooner or later, I can save up money slowly for better things. I am for a simpler plug-and-play gadgets so I am not going to aim for TOTM hardware. CPR Aquafuge, Coralife Superskimmer, and Tunzes are my next gadgets in line this year.

I guess what I am saying is that it is ok to start low and work yourself up. Some folks collect stuff over years before they end up with a tank filled with saltwater. Why be in a hobby if you spent two years collecting money and gadgets. Put water in that tank and start off. Because time in this hobby is a learning process! don't be intimidated to start off at the bottom. AND STOP BUYING STUFF JUST BECAUSE. Start modestly.

[eidillitih]

I guess what I am saying is that it is ok to start low and work yourself up. Some folks collect stuff over years before they end up with a tank filled with saltwater. Why be in a hobby if you spent two years collecting money and gadgets. Put water in that tank and start off. Because time in this hobby is a learning process! don't be intimidated to start off at the bottom. AND STOP BUYING STUFF JUST BECAUSE. Start modestly.

well put, that's how I got started, with the low end stuff. Work in the LFS during the summer. Used that money to upgrade my tank. It's a Journey and that's what I love about the hobby, Working toward the ideal tank set-up.

[kwaters]

Good to hear (again). It is the same in every hobby out there. I used to be a professional in the Hunter/Jumper's (Horses). It was fun and exciting to watch those big fancy horses with huge price tags and equipment galore that cost tons of money. It was also very gratifing to see the girl next door on a $1500 dollar horse with the "bare bones of equipment" come in and kick butt!

HE HE HE.

I will never knock anyone who has the money to put into their hobby! Thank God I don't like to race cars!

BTW...I am doing an experiment of my own on how much I will spend on this tank.

So Far:

1) 55 gallon Acrylic and Stand: Free
1) 20+ gal sump, fuge and overflow- DIY materials $113.00
2) Proteing skimmer **budget of $175.00 (still looking for the "right" one)

Total so far $113.00

Still have alot on the ol' Wish List!

I won't cut corners for my tanks health...but I will try to keep costs down.

Kris

[t-bone2]

wow:hmm4:

[axia55]

I think one of the things that this thread has made me realize is how much "peer pressure" there is on here to go for the best and biggest when it is not always necessary. I think alot of beginners are scared off when they see how much people spend on their tanks. Some equipment is necessary, but much of it is nothing more than "hardware lust". Many of us (including myself) can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on our tanks, so having some encouragement to spend less is a nice change once in awhile.

[TomV]

I've been keeping Freshwater Tanks for 20+ years.

I've only been keeping Reef Tanks since 2003.

One thing I've noticed is how many different ideas and ways of doing things there are in this hobby, especially Reefkeeping. What works for John might not work for Dave, etc. Sometimes it comes down to chemistry of the water source (Tap, R/O, etc) and it could also be environmental (house temps, stuff floating in the air, etc). It's really not a one-size-fits-all hobby. And that is something I really like.

I can relate to all the people who didn't even ATTEMPT reefkeeping because of how hard they heard it to be -- and especially how expensive! Well, it's absolutely refreshing to see this thread because it shows further that we really don't have to worry about getting the most expensive skimmer/filtration/lighting and essentially keeping up with the Reef-Jones's. I've done a LOT of research on this because I, myself, am also a Reefer on a strict budget. So, I've had to find the clever way of doing things and I've had to settle for running sub-par skimmers because that's what I could afford at the time. Sometimes, those sub-par skimmers can be modified to where they do a passable job. Sometimes, you can take an Aquaclear 300 HOB Filter and make a Refugium out of it.

Sometimes, it seems, all you pay for is a NAME.

Sure, some of the more expensive stuff is definitely worth the purchase price because of workmanship and innovation. But, a lot of times, it isn't. For example, I've seen BakPak skimmers by CPR that go for well over $100 online. But, at the same time, I've seen copies of that filter itself going for half that on other websites. You can put the same powerhead on it. It has the exact same construction. What's different? The name. That's it.

Believe it or not, the Reefkeepers I know from clubs abhor the banter that happens all too often on the Internet when someone claims to know everything and says you HAVE to do it his/her way or else you will end up with a dead tank and lots of money down the drain.

I've even had a couple people who RUN LFS's tell me that you don't NEED a Protein Skimmer to run on a Saltwater Tank (I've seen articles and threads on websites about "skimmerless" tanks which confirm this.) It really strikes me that someone who runs an LFS would steer you away from spending TONS of money on the hobby at their store. Interesting, eh?

Tang Named Junkyard, I salute you! I am also a lazy reefkeeper who RARELY does any water changes. The only times I've lost fish and/or corals was when either an act of God intervened (a horrible 4 day power outage last year smack dab in the middle of winter), or when I meddled in the tank too much by "overthinking the plumbing" so to speak.

[eidillitih]

this thread needs more picture of these barebone tank. Let people see the result of your barebone tanks.

[RumLad]

I would wholeheartedly agree with this concept of making do with the resources at hand. If you can be successful without all the latest and greatest gizmo's plumbed in, hanging on, computer controlled yada, yada, yada, great. I'm trying it now with my first SW tank, and so far so good. I'll post picks later on.

I do think a lot of the tap water issues comes down to the source. Here in the Chicago area, if you get water from Lake Michigan, you're good to go. If, like me, it comes from a local well and/ or river, you had better be using some other source. As for lights, I believe that people had successful reefs for many years prior to the advent of MH and T-5 lighting. Maybe the corals didn't grow quite so fast, but they still grew. I guess it's all relative to what you want out of this hobby.

Me, I just want a nice little peaceful, easy to maintain, tank in my family room.

[Kip]

i am one of those "tech-equipment-junkies" that got TOTM that has a good deal of dinero in my system

i have been doing this since 1996 and have seen systems set up all kindsa ways with all kindsa success.

in fact, i run a 75g softy/lps tank that i do little to nothing to (water changes, testing, dosing)... i do have a coupla "convenience" devices that will shut off lights if tank gets too hot and an ATO system

main difference in the softy tank and the stony tank that got TOTM... the inhabs. The stony system is far more demanding than a softy/lps system and wont let you get away with as much "laziness."

So... whenever you see someone's tank that has minimum effort in it... think about what exactly they are keeping, how it looks, the longevity of such, and the way it was set up (natural filtration, low fish load, etc, etc) and then decide if that is what you want for your system.

i think the OP's tank is nice. it is not exactly what i prefer, but what he may prefer is up to him

we all get outta this "hobby" what we want as a function of what we put into it relative to what we keep.

a wise man once said.... "your tank~your choice"

[TomV]

My tank is nothing to look at right now because I've been just barely maintaining it and buying NOTHING for it for most of 2006. When the power outage happened for 4 days in Feb 2006, I really got bummed out and it killed a lot of my interest. I lost literally 1000's of dollars in coral and livestock. The only things that survived were Vermitid Snails, a couple Blue Leg Hermits, a Ricordea which was growing INSIDE an abandoned snail shell, and feather dusters galore. Other than the Ric, I lost ALL my softies.

Here are some pics. The Orange Ric is the disaster survivor. It's gotten about 2.5 inches wide in the year. It was barely the size of a dime inside the snail shell. The other corals I bought recently. Mind the bad photography... I have a cheap digital camera! ;)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/axess68/DSCF2419.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/axess68/DSCF2411.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/axess68/DSCF2245.jpg


The Ricordea
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/axess68/DSCF2100.jpg


(I don't know what this is. Could be a Xmas Tree Worm, but maybe not... The white branchy thing is a sponge. I have many, many types of sponges all over this tank! :eek2: )
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/axess68/DSCF2094a.jpg


Survivors
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/axess68/DSCF2068.jpg


The RED you see in some of the pics is not Red Slime. It's hard as a rock, so, I'm assuming it's maroon coralline. I have that and orange coralline. Weird......

The only thing I do with this tank is water top offs. I run Carbon + Purigen in a power filter, and I run an AC500 DIY HOB Fuge. I also have a Seaclone 100 on this tank that works when I mother it. I am thinking of either a Remora or a BakPak in March or so.

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9189311#post9189311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kip
i am one of those "tech-equipment-junkies" that got TOTM that has a good deal of dinero in my system

i have been doing this since 1996 and have seen systems set up all kindsa ways with all kindsa success.

in fact, i run a 75g softy/lps tank that i do little to nothing to (water changes, testing, dosing)... i do have a coupla "convenience" devices that will shut off lights if tank gets too hot and an ATO system

main difference in the softy tank and the stony tank that got TOTM... the inhabs. The stony system is far more demanding than a softy/lps system and wont let you get away with as much "laziness."

So... whenever you see someone's tank that has minimum effort in it... think about what exactly they are keeping, how it looks, the longevity of such, and the way it was set up (natural filtration, low fish load, etc, etc) and then decide if that is what you want for your system.

i think the OP's tank is nice. it is not exactly what i prefer, but what he may prefer is up to him

we all get outta this "hobby" what we want as a function of what we put into it relative to what we keep.

a wise man once said.... "your tank~your choice"

:beer:

[tang named junkyard]

I'd still like to see more pix.

[TomV]

I agree. So far only a couple of us have posted pix.

[carlso63]

Speaking of "Reefkeeping on a Budget"...


There is a thread on the 'Lights & Filtration' Forum where a furious debate is raging over those infamous (maybe "famous", now?) Odyssea light fixtures.

Apparently, Odyssea is no longer producing its own lighting design, instead now producing a "copycat" version of the Coralife Pro fixture - at close to half the price! They even use decent electronic ballasts and feature 250w HQI MH units w Actinic PCs and moonlights.

Interesting to watch unfold, as quite a few posters have chimed in that they have bought one of these 'new' fixtures, in the past 6 -12 months or so, and they are performing just fine. No problems. No more burnt out magnetic/tar ballast issues. And they look just like the sleek Coralife units. Not one has posted saying they are dissatisfied with the lights. In fact, one guy has a whole line of pics posted where he disassembles not just the light fixture but even the ballasts, showing "guts" of identical type and quality to the Coralife Pro unit...

Personally, for me, I am interested because I need a new 72" MH fixture for my 125g and am bristling (somewhat) at shelling out well over $1000 for an Aqualight Pro, Coralife, or Orbit - nevermind forking over $1600+ for a Maristar. .

The same lighting from this new Odyssea version (3 X 250w HQI, 4 X 96w Actinic PC, w/ LED moonlights, individual electronic ballasts, seperate cords, etc.) is going for $540 - plus about $70 to ship. And that includes all bulbs, mounting legs, etc.

Buyers are reporting build quality looks pretty much identical to the Coralife - for around 45% less cost.

But many of the RC "old guard" don't want to hear any of it...

"...It can't compare to my ($1500) Maristar setup..."

Hey, a Toyota "can't compare" to a Lamborghini, either.

But they both get you down the road...:lol: :lol: :lol:

[RTKBA308]

I don't get it. Help a newbie out:D, how do you NOT do water changes? From all that I have research so far, water changes are essential.

[davidhughes85]

I had a 55 with a back pack skimmer and an overflow filter that housed a clown, koran angel, butterfly, yellowtang, and a lionfish, water changes every other month....not a problem...did fine until i broke it down. And now I have an 8 gallon biocube with a dwarf lion, royal gramma, and a cleaner shrimp and do waterchanges every other month...no problems ...only mod i have on it is a refugium in the center chamber..lr rubble and a bag of chemi pure...there is two views to the hobby liberal and conservative. This hobby is still evolving and new things being found out its all still opinions. And yes people with the $1600 dollar lights say the cheap lights are pos, how else are they going to justify the ridiculous amount of money they just spent....and by god they better be recognised for having the best lights in all the land!

[zuzecawi]

Hey, I'm all for barebones, but I'm into water changes too. Does that make me a heretic?
My 58 ran/is running still for years with a crappy (might as well not be on there except it adds oxygen to the water) cracked protein skimmer, a home made 20 gal sump, a mag 9.5 and a crappy powerhead that binds up on each water change like clockwork. But it works when I take it apart and put it back together. So go figure. My one concession to modern reefing was to put a SCWD ran by a mag five on the tank. I've got sps, some softies, shrimp, two fish (target mandarin dragonet and an evil lawnmower blenny), some crabs, a bunch of random micro-inverts, and it's great. But... I do bi monthly water changes.
Personally, I don't think that barebones and water chang habits have anything to do with eachother. A lot of tech heads here don't change their water often, and face the same number of crashes as anybody else. I prefer not to risk, I don't test often unless I see corals doing weird things, but I do change water.
Oh, and did I mention... no heaters. No chillers. no reactors. No stirrers. No auto anythings except a timer on the one lone 250 watt magnetic ballast halide.

Now, to play devils advocate, my 135 is a DIY palace. Chiller, closed loops, elaborate lighting schemes, very creative sump, etc etc. No reactors and none planned. Tank is fairly new and I've yet to add corals. verdict is still out...

Pics of the 58
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/zuzecawi/jan07topdown-1.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/zuzecawi/shrimp.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/zuzecawi/mandarinslimer.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/zuzecawi/bluetortfragjan07.jpg

Oh yeah, and obviously, my camera is cheap too!

[TomV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9204248#post9204248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by carlso63
Speaking of "Reefkeeping on a Budget"...


There is a thread on the 'Lights & Filtration' Forum where a furious debate is raging over those infamous (maybe "famous", now?) Odyssea light fixtures.

Apparently, Odyssea is no longer producing its own lighting design, instead now producing a "copycat" version of the Coralife Pro fixture - at close to half the price! They even use decent electronic ballasts and feature 250w HQI MH units w Actinic PCs and moonlights.

((Snipped for space, no offense))


Well, my friend, let me tell you a little tale.

When I started my 55 Gallon tank in March of 2005, I had to come up with a somewhat cheap lighting setup since I am not as well off as some of our fellow RC'ers. I found Aquatraders doing eBay sales. I had a 29g with PC lights and wanted to stick with them since they were the best solution for cost. New Hampshire also has one of the HIGHEST electric rates in the USA, so I couldn't run halides without paying $150 a month extra for 2 175watt lights running at normal time frames for a reef tank.

So, I decided to go with the partially plastic Jebo/Odyssea 48" 200+watt PC light fixture. It ran VERY well for nearly 2 years. Then in December 2006, I was sitting in my room using my PC and I saw what looked like a bug flying by me. I swatted at it and noticed it wasn't bug, but a weird wisp of black.....smoke.....:eek2: :eek2: (Incidentally, I am a stroke survivor--and one of the nasty side effects is that my sense of smell comes and goes when it feels like it-- so I couldn't smell the smoke).

I turned to see foot tall flames coming out of the front and back of the left side of my canopy. The Odyssea fixture had caught fire! I quickly jumped up and tore the canopy off of the top of the tank with strength I didn't know I had! The flames wouldn't go out because it was the PLASTIC in the fixture that was on fire! Every time I smothered them, they would catch again. Water was flowing out onto the floor because I had knocked the top of my protein skimmer off (the collection cup). So, I kept getting shocked again and again while my room was filling with black smoke. Finally, I managed to get everything unplugged in one shot and ran downstairs with the 48" long never ending torch in my hands. I ran outside and dumped the flaming end in a barrel of water.

So, when I needed new lights, I thought again of Aquatraders because I'm poor and probably a little insane. But, I would SUSPEND it over the tank this time(no enclosed wooden canopy), not get such a high wattage, and keep an eye on it this time.

Then I saw how they redesigned their lights. I have a smaller Coralife fixture on my Nano and it is nearly IDENTICAL to it. This time, it's ALL METAL (except on the ends). I was sold.

Perhaps, my incident wasn't an isolated one?

[eidillitih]

zuzecawi, full tank shot:thumbsup:, you have no bioload, no need for big skimmer and halide is a halide. With regular water changes your doing all that's need to grow nice corals.

[ukcats]

I think it is safe to say that you are the exception to the rule. Your tank looks great and I certainly give you credit for that. However, for every one of you there are another 50-100 who fail miserably by doing the same thing. I'm not saying that people should spend tons of money and there are corners that can be cut. But more often than not those types of practices will result in failure. Anyway, nice tank and good luck!

[Elliott]

hmm, I'm not surprised your tank is doing so well without all the high tech gadgets... as a general rule, whenever there are many solutions to a problem (as is true in reef keeping) usually none are correct.

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9204785#post9204785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zuzecawi
Hey, I'm all for barebones, but I'm into water changes too. Does that make me a heretic?


No way! Water changes all the way. I think the point of this thread is not to be a slave to conventional wisdom or the "you gotta have this" attitude.

[odysseysteve]

How about some photos, please?

[argo]

I've been following this thread for some time now... and must say that yes, it is possible to keep a thriving barebones setup up and running. Below are some of the corals I kept in a 46G bow front tank with nothing but a Prism skimmer (it overflowed more than it actually skimmed), 3 MJ power heads (not even a wave maker), a DSB, about 45#s of live rock and 4 VHOs. I must admit that I changed 10% of tank's volume every week religiously (no excuses).

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/36791Bird_s_Nest_Then_and_Now.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/36791then_and_now_MDigitata_a2a.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/36791then_and_now_Capnella_a.jpg

Now that my family and I are traveling more I have no choice but to invest in a sump, auto top off, dosers, and everything else that is required to run the tank in my absence.

[eidillitih]

any current full tank shots?

[rotorjock]

Ah, ther's hope for my lazy butt. I have a 72 gal bow front with wet/dry sump. I have a heater set to 79, a powerhead 800 pump, an Excaliber Pro skimmer and a Jebo 4X55 light. About every ten days I change ten gallons of water and vacuum the substrate while I'm siphoning off the water. My replacement water comes from a 120 GPD R/O system I bought on E-Bay for $60. I'm too lazy to take out the bio balls from the sump, but also believe that if it works, don't fix it. I haven't tested my tank other then the salinity in months. It seems to work fine, and I thought I was cheating, but thanks to you folks I now know I'm just doing what I need to and it seems to be working. Pictures later when I figure out how.

[The Cardinal]

An interesting thread guys. Here is my so called 100 gal "TOTM" from a swedish forum (by no means one of the nicer tanks in Sweden). The text is unfortunately in Swedish but please check out the pics and movie if you are interested:

http://www.saltvattensguiden.se/forumet/ma_Feb2007_clownen.php

Film with my wavebox in action:

http://media.putfile.com/Clownens-Reef-Aquarium

I have no plumbing or other filters and I haven´t used a skimmer for half a year with "perfect" water. I change less than 10% water per month. The things I have invested in are circulation (2 X Tunze Stream 6060 and a wavebox that I recently bought) and light (6 X 54w T5). The T5 bulbs have been running for 1,5 years with good growth (see the frag comparison pics between 250w MH and my old T5 lights 6 weeks later). I use some carbon 24/7 and add kalkwasser and balling for CA,MG,KH. I also feed my tank live phyto and zooplancton.

I grow Banggaicardinals successfully for over a year in a similar smaller system without any cleaning except the live rock, sand and macro algae.

/Peter

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185941#post9185941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by axia55
I think one of the things that this thread has made me realize is how much "peer pressure" there is on here to go for the best and biggest when it is not always necessary. I think alot of beginners are scared off when they see how much people spend on their tanks. Some equipment is necessary, but much of it is nothing more than "hardware lust". Many of us (including myself) can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on our tanks, so having some encouragement to spend less is a nice change once in awhile.

Spending alot, and buying good equipment aren't necessarily the same thing. There are $200 skimmers that will keep up with the $1000 skimmers. There are cheaper lighting solutions, etc.

[carlso63]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9204877#post9204877 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TomV
Well, my friend, let me tell you a little tale.

(editted for space)

...I turned to see foot tall flames coming out of the front and back of the left side of my canopy. The Odyssea fixture had caught fire! I quickly jumped up and tore the canopy off of the top of the tank with strength I didn't know I had! The flames wouldn't go out because it was the PLASTIC in the fixture that was on fire! Every time I smothered them, they would catch again. Water was flowing out onto the floor because I had knocked the top of my protein skimmer off (the collection cup). So, I kept getting shocked again and again while my room was filling with black smoke. Finally, I managed to get everything unplugged in one shot and ran downstairs with the 48" long never ending torch in my hands. I ran outside and dumped the flaming end in a barrel of water.

So, when I needed new lights, I thought again of Aquatraders because I'm poor and probably a little insane. But, I would SUSPEND it over the tank this time(no enclosed wooden canopy), not get such a high wattage, and keep an eye on it this time.

Then I saw how they redesigned their lights. I have a smaller Coralife fixture on my Nano and it is nearly IDENTICAL to it. This time, it's ALL METAL (except on the ends). I was sold.

Perhaps, my incident wasn't an isolated one?



Sorry to hear about that, but you are the first person I have seen here on RC who actually had flames and actual first hand experience ; not "my sisters friends next door neighbors former husbands bosses golf buddies house burned down", IYKWIM...

BTW, whatever was causing this (most likely ballast problems with overheating or unstable current values) seems to have been "fixed" on the 2006 / 2007 models. Your original post said yours was an early 2005 model, right?

And, on the other thread here re: Odyssea lights

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1037172

The people who have purchased the new "remodeled" (aka Coralife Aqualight copy) versions seem extremely happy with them - even the much maligned bulbs that come with them seem to be improved; no more 'only their brand fits in the sockets / endcaps'...!

So - right now anyway - it looks like you an indeed get a quality fixture (at least comparable to Coralife quality) for almost half the price of the other brands!

*** Of course, someone here from the RC 'old guard' will chime in that it's not good enough because it didn't cost a few grand, like a Maristar. Hey, but a Honda will get you across town just a s well as a Mercedes will...*** :rollface:

[argo]

eidillitih, that 46G bowfront is no more. I've upgraded to a 90G tank since. Just recently re-aquascaped because just 1 colony of Pocilopora Damicornis managed to spawn 3 times in 9 months and literally covered everything within my tank (including glass, heaters and all of the exposed live rock).

[crvz]

I'm kind of amused by this thread. I appreciate that the under-running tone of this site often takes to lofty arrogance (where those without the top of the line equipment/species need not apply, or if you do prepare to defend every decision you share), a reason I spend much less time here than elsewhere, and these "barebones" ideals are like fodder for an imminent revolution (which will, unfortunately, never gain steam).

It's no surprise that the simple tanks with minimal maintenance exist. Undeniably, it's easier to provide for soft corals (even with a sprinkling of stonies thrown in for good measure). I started that way. I had various leathers, polyps, etc., for which I spent not enough time caring for. A few fish, with little bio-load, and everything did fine. But typically life changes force your hand. For me, I moved. Twice. I had to make the decision to tear it down or actually show interest in it. I chose to be more interested, and curiosity led me to more demanding species. To provide for these new animals (corals and fish), things became more complicated; regular water changes to replenish essential elements and to lower nutrient levels, which led to manual dosing, which then led to gadgets to do this for me (requiring 1dkh of alkalinity per day, it was tedious to manually dose and hard to travel!).

While I think a place on this site for simple systems may be a great idea (groundruling out those who chose to close their minds to the reality that not everyone thinks as they do), I very much enjoy that TOTM celebrates those who've dedicated a good portion of their lives and finances to reef-keeping. I find that it showcases more of a "flawless" system (however you want to define it), which often comes at a price. Sometimes even a foolish price.

Which segues to my final point, where I'm a little weary of the implication that you must have either a wealthy background or debt to have elaborate systems. While it's true that many individuals spend inordinate amounts of money and follow those patterns, the entirety of my 150 gallon setup (with most bells and whistles) cost less than 5% of my yearly income (and as a 27 year old BS in engineering working for the government, it's not that much). Making wise decisions, shopping for used equipment, and taking your time can greatly decrease costs. Spreading the word that reef-keeping is cheap (though no one has said it quite that candidly) can be worse to the hobby than the current myth that it costs a fortune. Hobbyists convinced to cut every corner become frustrated hobbyists, who make terrible ambassadors.

Anyways, great thread, and I look forward to continued ideology and pictures!

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9247747#post9247747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crvz
I'm kind of amused by this thread. I appreciate that the under-running tone of this site often takes to lofty arrogance (where those without the top of the line equipment/species need not apply, or if you do prepare to defend every decision you share), a reason I spend much less time here than elsewhere, and these "barebones" ideals are like fodder for an imminent revolution (which will, unfortunately, never gain steam).

It's no surprise that the simple tanks with minimal maintenance exist. Undeniably, it's easier to provide for soft corals (even with a sprinkling of stonies thrown in for good measure). I started that way. I had various leathers, polyps, etc., for which I spent not enough time caring for. A few fish, with little bio-load, and everything did fine. But typically life changes force your hand. For me, I moved. Twice. I had to make the decision to tear it down or actually show interest in it. I chose to be more interested, and curiosity led me to more demanding species. To provide for these new animals (corals and fish), things became more complicated; regular water changes to replenish essential elements and to lower nutrient levels, which led to manual dosing, which then led to gadgets to do this for me (requiring 1dkh of alkalinity per day, it was tedious to manually dose and hard to travel!).

While I think a place on this site for simple systems may be a great idea (groundruling out those who chose to close their minds to the reality that not everyone thinks as they do), I very much enjoy that TOTM celebrates those who've dedicated a good portion of their lives and finances to reef-keeping. I find that it showcases more of a "flawless" system (however you want to define it), which often comes at a price. Sometimes even a foolish price.

Which segues to my final point, where I'm a little weary of the implication that you must have either a wealthy background or debt to have elaborate systems. While it's true that many individuals spend inordinate amounts of money and follow those patterns, the entirety of my 150 gallon setup (with most bells and whistles) cost less than 5% of my yearly income (and as a 27 year old BS in engineering working for the government, it's not that much). Making wise decisions, shopping for used equipment, and taking your time can greatly decrease costs. Spreading the word that reef-keeping is cheap (though no one has said it quite that candidly) can be worse to the hobby than the current myth that it costs a fortune. Hobbyists convinced to cut every corner become frustrated hobbyists, who make terrible ambassadors.

Anyways, great thread, and I look forward to continued ideology and pictures!

:beer: nice tank too

[argo]

crvz, Amen to your post.
I myself moved on twice - from softies to less demanding SPS to most demanding SPS (read colorful) and fish and loved the challenge. The rewards were worth it, and I surely learned a lot following that path. I quickly realized that manually replacing 1.5 to 2 dKh of daily consumption by growing SPS was more than I could provide given my work schedule (not even talking about stable salinity and Calcium).
Automated dosing, auto top-off, etc. became (for me at least) a necessity rather than sheer extravagance. Slowly investing in a reef system that would take care of itself (at least Monday through Friday) is my goal.

[TomV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9240682#post9240682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr Mussle
An interesting thread guys. Here is my so called 100 gal "TOTM" from a swedish forum (by no means one of the nicer tanks in Sweden). The text is unfortunately in Swedish but please check out the pics and movie if you are interested:

http://www.saltvattensguiden.se/forumet/ma_Feb2007_clownen.php

Film with my wavebox in action:

http://media.putfile.com/Clownens-Reef-Aquarium

I have no plumbing or other filters and I haven´t used a skimmer for half a year with "perfect" water. I change less than 10% water per month. The things I have invested in are circulation (2 X Tunze Stream 6060 and a wavebox that I recently bought) and light (6 X 54w T5). The T5 bulbs have been running for 1,5 years with good growth (see the frag comparison pics between 250w MH and my old T5 lights 6 weeks later). I use some carbon 24/7 and add kalkwasser and balling for CA,MG,KH. I also feed my tank live phyto and zooplancton.

I grow Banggaicardinals successfully for over a year in a similar smaller system without any cleaning except the live rock, sand and macro algae.

/Peter


Peter,

I am shocked, in awe, and stunned into silence after looking at the page of your tank. Unbelievable! What GREAT success! My jaw hit the floor when I saw the Banggai Cardinal babies. That's just amazing! My hat is truly off to you!

I was also amazed, shocked, and then saddened when I saw your coral growth under Metal Halide and then under T5. I was saddened because I just took the plunge with my 55 gallon tank's lighting and bought the first of 2 Metal Halide 175 watt lights. I am really thinking I should have gone with T5 lights instead. Amazing growth!

[motlot77]

pretty darn interesting thread. it will def. make me think about spending some bucks on certain things.

i would however draw the line at water changes. fresh water is fresh water, no matter what. i'm no vegetarian or hippy, but i really care about all animals and try to give them the best possible health.

no doubt you can keep something alive with minimal effort, but is that enough? since none of us have working gills, we'll never know. for me i would feel like a bad person if i didn't give my beautiful fish and animals fresh water every week. they give me tons of pleasure and i'd like to think i'm giving a little bit back.

just my $.03. hats off to all that make it work.

[Zoa~Goddess]

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/mbilay/fulltankshot.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

My zoo and Ric garden:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/mbilay/zooandricgarden.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

My Sps and Softies:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/mbilay/spssofties.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

I use RODI water to tap off. I have only done 1 water change the tank has been up sence 11/06

-Melissa

[bheron]

I think this thread is a great idea. I just hope it stays friendly and people realize TNJ's point: you dont HAVE to do it any particilar way or the other, including spending tons of cash.

Man, I thought my system was low-budget. I am on a tight budget b/c my wife and I agreed that after splitting the startup costs, my hobby comes out of my own allowance (even though I make 2-3's more than her :rolleyes: )

I have learned that if you take the time to research and ask questions, thats really all you need to keep things simple and under control.

- Can everyone use tap water? definitely not. but you should explore the option before dropping $200 on a 75GPD RODI

- Do you need to spend $1200 on a MH light system? depends on what you want to keep?

Again, if you plan, take your time, and ask questions, your budget will benefit.

In case anyone's wondering, and since I thought mine was kinda bare bones :o , here's my setup including a list of equipment and price estimates below:

220 Gallon Tank

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0616.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0617.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0608.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0606.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0599.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0595.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0592.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0591.jpg


<li>Tank: 220 Gallon AGA: $635
- I shopped and shopped and, at the last minute, beat my best price by $100 by pure luck. Usually costs $750 or more.

<li>Wood for Stand: $100
- Built my own

<li>Lights: 8x80W T5: $1000
- I went this direction b/c I didnt want to be limited in what I wanted to keep and, mostly, b/c my tank is 30" deep. Definitely other ways to go here. And definitely my most expensive piece of equipment.

<li>Live Rock: 250lbs: $600 (approx as I bought some online and others locally. tough to skimp here as its important, but if youre patient you can buy it cheap from local reefers going out of business, or use mostly dead/base rock. Can save alot.

<li>Skimmer: EuroReef: $310
- Not a must have at all, but Im a big believer in them, personally.

<li>Sump: 75 gallon from previous display tank: ???

<li>Flow: Mag18 in Sump: $100
- Dont need one if you dont have a sump!

<li>Flow: 2 x TUnzes: $400
- FLow is important, but alot of wiggle room here.

<li>Source Water: 75GPD RODI: $200
- For me, this is the most important piece of equipment b/c of the quality of my tap water. Guarantee I couldnt even keep a snail b/c of the copper in my water.

<li>Water Changes: yes, but not too often or as much as Id like: spend @ $100 a year on salt.

(None of this counts how much I pay in water bills for top off and WCs with RODI. Wastes 3 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pure water)

Lets see....some misc stuff:

<li>Heaters: 3 of them b/c of the size and for backup: $100

<li>Plumbing: if you have a sump, you need plumbing. All the PVC: $100


Well, I really thought I had a pretty simple system!

I will say that some of it I didnt need but got more b/c of luxury or security....or just fun.

I will also say that I worked so hard (you add it up) to keep things down, and turned down things I didnt need or found other methods:

- Closed Loop
- Calcium Reactor
- Chiller

If I had to do it over again????

I wouldnt change much at all, maybe get MH lights instead.

Hope this thread keeps going and we can all learn more about the many different ways to do this hobby!

[ccorpse27]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277224#post9277224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bheron
I think this thread is a great idea. I just hope it stays friendly and people realize TNJ's point: you dont HAVE to do it any particilar way or the other, including spending tons of cash.

Man, I thought my system was low-budget. I am on a tight budget b/c my wife and I agreed that after splitting the startup costs, my hobby comes out of my own allowance (even though I make 2-3's more than her :rolleyes: )

I have learned that if you take the time to research and ask questions, thats really all you need to keep things simple and under control.

- Can everyone use tap water? definitely not. but you should explore the option before dropping $200 on a 75GPD RODI

- Do you need to spend $1200 on a MH light system? depends on what you want to keep?

Again, if you plan, take your time, and ask questions, your budget will benefit.

In case anyone's wondering, and since I thought mine was kinda bare bones :o , here's my setup including a list of equipment and price estimates below:

220 Gallon Tank

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0616.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0617.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0608.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0606.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0599.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0595.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0592.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0591.jpg


<li>Tank: 220 Gallon AGA: $635
- I shopped and shopped and, at the last minute, beat my best price by $100 by pure luck. Usually costs $750 or more.

<li>Wood for Stand: $100
- Built my own

<li>Lights: 8x80W T5: $1000
- I went this direction b/c I didnt want to be limited in what I wanted to keep and, mostly, b/c my tank is 30" deep. Definitely other ways to go here. And definitely my most expensive piece of equipment.

<li>Live Rock: 250lbs: $600 (approx as I bought some online and others locally. tough to skimp here as its important, but if youre patient you can buy it cheap from local reefers going out of business, or use mostly dead/base rock. Can save alot.

<li>Skimmer: EuroReef: $310
- Not a must have at all, but Im a big believer in them, personally.

<li>Sump: 75 gallon from previous display tank: ???

<li>Flow: Mag18 in Sump: $100
- Dont need one if you dont have a sump!

<li>Flow: 2 x TUnzes: $400
- FLow is important, but alot of wiggle room here.

<li>Source Water: 75GPD RODI: $200
- For me, this is the most important piece of equipment b/c of the quality of my tap water. Guarantee I couldnt even keep a snail b/c of the copper in my water.

<li>Water Changes: yes, but not too often or as much as Id like: spend @ $100 a year on salt.

(None of this counts how much I pay in water bills for top off and WCs with RODI. Wastes 3 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pure water)

Lets see....some misc stuff:

<li>Heaters: 3 of them b/c of the size and for backup: $100

<li>Plumbing: if you have a sump, you need plumbing. All the PVC: $100


Well, I really thought I had a pretty simple system!

I will say that some of it I didnt need but got more b/c of luxury or security....or just fun.

I will also say that I worked so hard (you add it up) to keep things down, and turned down things I didnt need or found other methods:

- Closed Loop
- Calcium Reactor
- Chiller

If I had to do it over again????

I wouldnt change much at all, maybe get MH lights instead.

Hope this thread keeps going and we can all learn more about the many different ways to do this hobby!

Yours is low budget? Compared to the richies on this site maybe.

[vessxpress1]

I think there's good intentions behind this thread but I can't help but feel it's giving A LOT of people false hope while setting them up for failure.

First of all, I think the most important part of everything is water quality. Most newbies have NO idea about what TDS is or how to test it, or why it matters. Besides this many local municipalities purposely add phosphates to their water in order to help preserve the pipes. My tap is a constant 1.5 ppm phosphate, that water conditioner is not going to neutralize. That's only one common problem with tap water. If there's small amounts of copper in someone's water, building up over time, the tank becomes a time bomb. Maybe fish can hack it but most corals, I would say no. I don't think it's a good idea to choose tap water over an awesome RO/DI unit for 200 bucks. For the long term. Phosphate build up from tap water is just begging for an algae outbreak down the road.

Next, I would not advocate skipping water changes for 6 months at a time. It's a known fact that many needed elements get depleted quickly from coral take up and skimming. Newbies are going to buy expensive coral because it looks cool, throw it in the tank, and then come here wondering why it's receding. Whether it's because of phosphates, nitrates, low alk, low calcium, low magnesium...nobody knows because they didn't buy any test kits. You've got to be able to narrow down problems or any problem that arises will inevidably result in coral loss and frustration.

I'm just saying people that decide to skimp on equipment aren't going to be any happier once they've invested hundreds of dollars into livestock and have a major crash in 2 years. Not everybody's tap water will be the same as yours.

Lets just try to be careful with the advice we're doling out, realizing not everyone knows what you know at this point.

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277224#post9277224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bheron
I think this thread is a great idea. I just hope it stays friendly and people realize TNJ's point: you dont HAVE to do it any particilar way or the other, including spending tons of cash.

Man, I thought my system was low-budget. I am on a tight budget b/c my wife and I agreed that after splitting the startup costs, my hobby comes out of my own allowance (even though I make 2-3's more than her :rolleyes: )

I have learned that if you take the time to research and ask questions, thats really all you need to keep things simple and under control.

- Can everyone use tap water? definitely not. but you should explore the option before dropping $200 on a 75GPD RODI

- Do you need to spend $1200 on a MH light system? depends on what you want to keep?

Again, if you plan, take your time, and ask questions, your budget will benefit.

In case anyone's wondering, and since I thought mine was kinda bare bones :o , here's my setup including a list of equipment and price estimates below:

220 Gallon Tank

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0616.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0617.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0608.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0606.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0599.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0595.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0592.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/100_0591.jpg


<li>Tank: 220 Gallon AGA: $635
- I shopped and shopped and, at the last minute, beat my best price by $100 by pure luck. Usually costs $750 or more.

<li>Wood for Stand: $100
- Built my own

<li>Lights: 8x80W T5: $1000
- I went this direction b/c I didnt want to be limited in what I wanted to keep and, mostly, b/c my tank is 30" deep. Definitely other ways to go here. And definitely my most expensive piece of equipment.

<li>Live Rock: 250lbs: $600 (approx as I bought some online and others locally. tough to skimp here as its important, but if youre patient you can buy it cheap from local reefers going out of business, or use mostly dead/base rock. Can save alot.

<li>Skimmer: EuroReef: $310
- Not a must have at all, but Im a big believer in them, personally.

<li>Sump: 75 gallon from previous display tank: ???

<li>Flow: Mag18 in Sump: $100
- Dont need one if you dont have a sump!

<li>Flow: 2 x TUnzes: $400
- FLow is important, but alot of wiggle room here.

<li>Source Water: 75GPD RODI: $200
- For me, this is the most important piece of equipment b/c of the quality of my tap water. Guarantee I couldnt even keep a snail b/c of the copper in my water.

<li>Water Changes: yes, but not too often or as much as Id like: spend @ $100 a year on salt.

(None of this counts how much I pay in water bills for top off and WCs with RODI. Wastes 3 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pure water)

Lets see....some misc stuff:

<li>Heaters: 3 of them b/c of the size and for backup: $100

<li>Plumbing: if you have a sump, you need plumbing. All the PVC: $100


Well, I really thought I had a pretty simple system!

I will say that some of it I didnt need but got more b/c of luxury or security....or just fun.

I will also say that I worked so hard (you add it up) to keep things down, and turned down things I didnt need or found other methods:

- Closed Loop
- Calcium Reactor
- Chiller

If I had to do it over again????

I wouldnt change much at all, maybe get MH lights instead.

Hope this thread keeps going and we can all learn more about the many different ways to do this hobby!

Dude, your not barebone. Though I like your set-up, it wouldn't be considered barebone. You got some money invested.

[archie1709]

I agree with the partial water changes. You can't get away with them. You will end up with too much nutrients and too little beneficial elements.

Anyways, here are the latest pictures of my low budget HOB filtered reef. Three years old. You will see a cyano outbreak. That's what happens when you don't pwc. I have ordered a Coralife Superskimmer 125 and an Aquafuge medium for export. Waiting on those goodies. But hey, I saved up for those.

http://archiehoims.blogs.friendster.com/photos/aquarium_2007/aquarium_feb_07_001.jpg

http://archiehoims.blogs.friendster.com/photos/aquarium_2007/aquarium_feb_07_007.jpg

Rebirth of the Bubble Coral

http://archiehoims.blogs.friendster.com/photos/aquarium_2007/aquarium_feb_07_008.jpg

My most favorite specimen of the three fish. I love maroon clowns!

http://archiehoims.blogs.friendster.com/photos/aquarium_2007/aquarium_feb_07_011.jpg

Hope you enjoyed the pics

[eidillitih]

Somebody is beating up your blue tang. Nice tank but your have a serious cyano problem. Need more flow looks like.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9279924#post9279924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eidillitih
Dude, your not barebone. Though I like your set-up, it wouldn't be considered barebone. You got some money invested.

Oh sweet, now we have cheapskate elitists too.

[archie1709]

Must be the yellow tang or the maroon. LOL. j/k. Actually the blue hippo's been really healthy and lively for the past couple of years that I've had it, believe it or now.

The cyano outbreak happened when I failed to do a waterchange longer than two monts. (I didn't do a water change for six months!!) I have been doing a lot of waterchanges to the tank. I will continue to do so.

One thing about cyano is once it's broken out, it takes a while for it to disappear. I cannot even emphasize how important pwc is.

The cyano only ends up on the sand bed. I am looking forward to better skimming and an actual way of export (refugium) coming up soon. Hopefully, as I pwc, I can maintain low levels of detrius through better skimming and better nutrient export through refugium.

The water circulation is propelled by three powerheads. An Aquaclear 4000 pumping 400gph, an Aquaclear 50 (402) pumping 270 gph, and an Aquaclear 30 pumping in excess of 170 gph. I am circulating (just considering the powerheads) 840 gallons of water per hour (turning over the tank volume roughly 15 times per hour). Plus, there are the two powerfilters and the skimmer as well.

The strongest one points to the surface of the water, creating a lot of movement on the surface and below it. The aquaclear 30 has an oscilating plug in that creates waves from the middle of the tank. And the Aquaclear 50 blows from the other side.

Trust me, this is not a water movement issue at all but a nutrient issue. Lack of pwc adds up like a snow ball.

[RichConley]

archie, thats nowhere near enough flow for a tank that size. You're having nutrient issues because everything is settling.

[SptfireXIV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277397#post9277397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ccorpse27
Yours is low budget? Compared to the richies on this site maybe.

I love it when people quote a huge wall of text and then add one line to it. That certainly makes scrolling through the thread more enjoyable.

P.S. Richies? Is this high school?

[tang named junkyard]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9277551#post9277551 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vessxpress1
I think there's good intentions behind this thread but I can't help but feel it's giving A LOT of people false hope while setting them up for failure.
.

I've done this setup twice with the same results. I've setup a friends tank with the same results. I don't believe it's luck.

[archie1709]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9280346#post9280346 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
archie, thats nowhere near enough flow for a tank that size. You're having nutrient issues because everything is settling.

With all due respect, rich, when you say "no where near enough flow", I disagree with you on that. I don't think you read that I mentioned I turnover my total tank volume fifteen (15) times per hour on powerheads alone. Including my filtration, I turnover approximately 26 times per hour the volume of my tank. That is, assuming that my tank is filled with water ALONE. I could be turning over more than that considering the actual volume of water remaining in my tank. You can see from the illustration below that water movement-wise, it is not a concern. The recommended turnover rate is between 6 - 10 times per hour. Ofcourse, more is better. But to say that I am nowhere near enough flow is inaccurate, I think, or may be an exaggeration on your part at worse.
.http://archiehoims.blogs.friendster.com/photos/aquarium_hobby/untitled.JPG
Waterflow and turnover is one thing. But if you do not have a skimmer that does par or over par at least, it doesn't matter how much waterflow you have because waterflow does NOT constitute nutrient export.

You can blow detrius up in the air (or in the waters, for our context) all day but if nothing is exporting those nutrients properly, it will remain in your tank.

That is why I said I have upgraded my skimmer, while doing water changes for now, to help control and export nutrients. Once the nutrients are lowered, the cyano will have lesser means to survive.

My two cents.

But thanks for the feedback. I am eventually saving up for a much better wave system down the road

[eidillitih]

I guess you have a 55gal. Outside the penductor on the middle power head how are you get flow across the top of the sand, Because those Aquaclears just shoots water straight across, it doesn't disperse like the tunze, seio, or MJ mods. You may just be getting flow across the top of the tank. JMO

[archie1709]

Well you got that right, it ain't no tunzes although that is what I intend to buy in the near future.

In terms of folks who cannot afford the expensive gadgets at the moment, there are ways to create waterflow that is not limited to lateral or upward flow.

For example, the right powerhead points toward the side of the glass which in turn bounces the water flow towards the surface and down on a circular motion. The oscillating tool in the middle enables to stir the already present waterflow happening from the left side.

These 840 gallons per hour of powerful water flow is not just for surface skimming. I know it is fun to poke at the waterflow even after I have explained everything because cyano is always mistakenly isolated with a "waterflow" solution which is wrong. Cyano does not thrive off of waterflow alone. Nor does waterflow become the greatest aspect of cyano outbreak. Something feeds the cyano. The problem with my current setup is this: the detrius is suspended but NOTHING is catching it properly. The Nutrients in the system is not EXPORTED. So what do you have? A nutrient rich water quality.

Here is a video I just uploaded to show you that the system is not only blowing water flow towards the surface or towards the middle. If you see closely, the red hair algae is waving so much at the bottom. I apologize for the quality (you may not be able to see how much the algae are waving but just look around at the specimen waving as well). It's not just the waterflow guys. However, like I said those purchases will come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU4gxDJehaM

[The Cardinal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9270110#post9270110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TomV
Peter,

I am shocked, in awe, and stunned into silence after looking at the page of your tank. Unbelievable! What GREAT success! My jaw hit the floor when I saw the Banggai Cardinal babies. That's just amazing! My hat is truly off to you!

I was also amazed, shocked, and then saddened when I saw your coral growth under Metal Halide and then under T5. I was saddened because I just took the plunge with my 55 gallon tank's lighting and bought the first of 2 Metal Halide 175 watt lights. I am really thinking I should have gone with T5 lights instead. Amazing growth!

Thank you Tom

There is a 6 week time difference between the comparison pics (with 18 months old tubes). There is no doubt that sps and corals in general grow differently under MH and T5. My experience is that sps grow more densly and more horizontal under T5 compared to MH. I don´t have the sexy glitter that you get with your MH though.

/Peter

[eidillitih]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9287879#post9287879 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by archie1709
Well you got that right, it ain't no tunzes although that is what I intend to buy in the near future.

In terms of folks who cannot afford the expensive gadgets at the moment, there are ways to create waterflow that is not limited to lateral or upward flow.

For example, the right powerhead points toward the side of the glass which in turn bounces the water flow towards the surface and down on a circular motion. The oscillating tool in the middle enables to stir the already present waterflow happening from the left side.

These 840 gallons per hour of powerful water flow is not just for surface skimming. I know it is fun to poke at the waterflow even after I have explained everything because cyano is always mistakenly isolated with a "waterflow" solution which is wrong. Cyano does not thrive off of waterflow alone. Nor does waterflow become the greatest aspect of cyano outbreak. Something feeds the cyano. The problem with my current setup is this: the detrius is suspended but NOTHING is catching it properly. The Nutrients in the system is not EXPORTED. So what do you have? A nutrient rich water quality.

Here is a video I just uploaded to show you that the system is not only blowing water flow towards the surface or towards the middle. If you see closely, the red hair algae is waving so much at the bottom. I apologize for the quality (you may not be able to see how much the algae are waving but just look around at the specimen waving as well). It's not just the waterflow guys. However, like I said those purchases will come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU4gxDJehaM

Nice Video, tank looks great from what it showed. Should have made it a little longer. But I'm not saying you don't have an export problem, not at all cause we all know if you didn't have one their wouldn't be no cyano. But I do know for a fact that cyano tends to settle in area of low flow, hence large amount of cyano almost right underneath your live rock.

[archie1709]

I agree.

BTW, since we are talking bare bones, do you know of any thread that illustrates converting HOB powerfilter into a Fuge? I couldn've sworn there was a thread somewhere about that.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

When I get home (I am at work risking my job because I am addicted to posting) I will share with you guys a photo of this sea urchin I found lurking behind one of the rocks. I was happy. Although I would've hoped it did some sand work for me but it doesn't move places much.

[KeeperOfFish]

ALL PRICES IN US DOLLARS

20g tank- $18

lighting-$120

powerheads-$30

stand- $70

filter-$25

heater-$5

TOTAL: $268

268 bucks, not too bad. i could have very easily made my own stand it was an impulsive noob buy back then. The cost would've been (with homemade stand) around $210-$220. I am keeping every kind of coral (minus SPS). And everything is doing fine. I don't test at all. I do water changes here and there, everything's just great. I think alot of people do go overboard with alot of stuff. You just hafta be smart about it.

[buffalo123]

There are thing that still should be done even with barebone systems.
Water testing especially when things don't seem right.
Water changes why wait until things go bad to do them . Once a week ,once a month etc. Its a small price to pay to keep things stable.

[tang named junkyard]

Who said doing lots of water changes is good? I went down to a local reef and to no surprise the nitrates were 20ppm. My tank which I do very little water changes sits at 0. I believe some softer corals grow the algae it feeds on inside it's tissue. I'll be posting some more photos soon. It is littereally a fight for light in my tank right now. I'm curious to see what the tank will turn into a year from now. Things are growing very rapidly right now. The only thing I've really changed is feeding flake food.

[boxfishpooalot]

Cool thread!

I got a 5 gallon super bare bones setup:

Equipment:

-5gallon tank
-1 air bubbler for complete water movement.
-silica sand bed at 2"
-15watt no flourecent
-big ball of chaeto
-5pounds of live rock

Livestock:
-Tons of pods, bristle worms, snails.
-xenia coral which is growing pretty good.
-chaeto

I was shocked that the xenia are growing under this light and tank!

No water changes ever. 3 months. I dont plant to water change.

I also have an expensive 125gallon with tunze wave box, 400halide, 2 octopuss skimmers, sulphur denitrator, 2x maxi mods, 120pounds live rock,ro di, ph montior, salinity monitor, refractometer, nitrate kits, calium kits, ect,ect ,ect. And I like my 5 gallon better which does better.... go figure!

[TomV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9300021#post9300021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by archie1709
I agree.

BTW, since we are talking bare bones, do you know of any thread that illustrates converting HOB powerfilter into a Fuge? I couldn've sworn there was a thread somewhere about that.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

When I get home (I am at work risking my job because I am addicted to posting) I will share with you guys a photo of this sea urchin I found lurking behind one of the rocks. I was happy. Although I would've hoped it did some sand work for me but it doesn't move places much.

Archie, there is a lot of info around the net on how to convert Aquaclear HOB Filters to Fuges. I have two myself. The best thread I've seen about it is here: http://iowaaquaria.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36706&sid=041adb4172684a7884364b98ce65adc7

[archie1709]

Thanks. Very nice thread. I appreciate it.

I guess you can only do that in Aquaclear powerfilters and I see why. There are a lot of space in it.

What I have is this:

http://www.fish.com/prodimages/p56208P.jpg

By the way, the thread didn't show anything for lighting.

Thanks again.

[eidillitih]

By the way, the thread didn't show anything for lighting.

Cause their's only 5 ways of providing light but only 1 is really cheap. You can skimp out of other stuff, light water change and parameter and skimmer but some bad lighting on your tank and how crappy it looks.

1.Fluorescent ( cheap ) not very good at coral growth
2.PC's/Power Compacts (not too bad on price)
3.VHO's
4.T5's
5.MH's

[archie1709]

Sorry, I meant lighting for the DIY HOB Powerfilter - Fuge mod. I wasn't being clear. I apologize