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nise86
02/02/2007, 04:49 PM
Hey guys! I haven't posted any threads for sometime nor have on been on here for sometime. Well I've been reading alot of books to help me deside on what type of tank I want, filter, lightening, etc. But I was just looking at some peoples threads on here. Saw somethings that I didn't know off and was wondering if somethings were possible. Please don't call me a moron, lol I am still really new and don't know everything.

But my stupid moron questions are: Purpose of a Auto top off system?
How do you build one?

And a top off water container?
Can you hook it up so if the pump runs dry it'll put water into it automatically?

My grandpop is building me a beautiful stand for my 37g tank. And I was going to put a 20g sump/fuge in it. If I do the auto top off system and top off water container how much space should be in the stand with the tank?

I want everything to be right. So I'm trying to draw everything out first before I do so I can post and ask you guys if its a good way or not.

Thanks alot everyone! even if you just look at this thread thanks!

-Nise:rollface:

Randall_James
02/02/2007, 05:11 PM
I would invest in a top-off system if it is your first. JBJ has one http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=JBJ-ATO&Category_Code=Dosers that works pretty well. As there are some pitfalls to an ATO, I feel that until you are ready for DIY projects that can have some pretty disasterous outcomes, the $70 is well spent on a system that works already...

Otherwise you can build one yourself but you need some safety switches to keep an overflow from happening IMO. You save a couple bucks but not sure it is worth the risk is all.

ahullsb
02/02/2007, 05:17 PM
Don't worry about feeling like a moron. I still do too sometimes. This is the right forum for it though! I don't have an auto top off yet. Eventually maybe I will but I don't have a problem adding a gallon or two of water every other day. With my 55 it hasn't been a problem yet.

jdieck
02/02/2007, 05:26 PM
As the auto top off is to automatically replenish evaporated water, it might not worth it for a small tank as evaporation can be easily replaced by manual addition every two or three days.

Spuds725
02/02/2007, 05:27 PM
Purpose is so you don't have to lug water-- and can keep your salinity in a tight range-- you can also go out of town for a week or more.

I don't have an issue lugging 2-3 gallons a day to my tank and dumping it in.... I dose my 2 part (calcium/alkalinity) when topping off-- so its a constant reminder...

Sk8r
02/02/2007, 05:29 PM
AUtopoff is not uncomplex. Here's how mine works for a 52g tank:

1. a dual float switch from autotopoff.com hung in my sump, with a plug in to the wall, and to a pump in....
2...an old salt bucket [5gal] in a separate cabinet, which runs a hose back to the same sump. Said bucket contains: rodi water laced with buffer pegged to the buffer-need v. evaporation rate of my particular tank. Saves me one job. And it keeps salinity changes from being rapid. It adds tablespoon at a time, not by the cupful. SLow changes are much better than a big slug of change.

The complex part:

1. remembering to unplug the cussed unit when doing anything that will lower your sump water level, because it will go on pumping FRESH WATER in until it runs out.
2. remembering to plug it back in when you finish futzing, or you find out days later that it hasn't been topping-off and your salinity has risen.
3. note: a real good reason for using a reservoir in a bucket rather than piped-in and infinite ro/di is that if you have a glitch, your puddle on the floor stops at 5 gallons, not a swimming pool.

The bit about slow change? Remember this maxim if you have a topoff glitch: if it all survived the glitch and it's been sitting that way for days, don't compound the stress by hastening a fix. Use your topoff to solve a problem in salinity by topping off with salt water for a few days...safest way to raise salinity. To lower salinity a little---dip out a little saltwater from your tank and let the topoff add fresh water, about a cup an hour.

It's a real useful tool, and does mean if you make up several buckets of buffered ro/di water and just have your tanksitter replenish the reservoir every few days, while you're on vacation, you'll come back to a tank functioning fairly well.

Shagsbeard
02/02/2007, 06:20 PM
Mine is even simpler... though probably less reliable.

I have a five gallon glass container corked with a rubber stopper... two hoses feed through the cork, one to tube that reaches the bottom of the jug, the other just to the other side of the cork. The one fed to the bottom siphons water out of the jar and into my sump. The other has it's opening where I want the water level to be.

As soon as the water level drops below that level, air is sucked into the bottle, and fresh water comes out. Once the water gets to covering the air intake, the siphon is stopped, and no more water gets put in. Works like a charm... but often the air intake hose gets clogged, so I have to clear it out. When I redesign it, the air intake is going to be replaced with a much wider diameter tube instead of an air hose.

NanoCube-boy
02/02/2007, 06:54 PM
I hate topping off my nano. I want to make a auto-top off too, but don't know how.

nise86
02/03/2007, 10:31 AM
Thank you guys for all that information!! So let me get this kinda straight. I would need a bucket filled with ro/do water and salt for the auto-top off to work?

Does anyone have pictures of there auto-top off systems?

Nise:)

Randall_James
02/03/2007, 10:51 AM
no salt

power boat jim
02/03/2007, 11:17 AM
I use a 12 gallon rubbermaid tub, it has a tube attached to a valve that siphons 2.5 gallons of water per day. You adjust the valve for whatever drip rate suits your tank. Total cost about 12.00

NanoCube-boy
02/03/2007, 11:40 AM
Where do you by the valve?

power boat jim
02/03/2007, 12:15 PM
it is a valve that controls the water flow out of a Calcium reactor, You can probably get it at any local marine fish store. It has barbed ends and slides into airline tubing.

NanoCube-boy
02/03/2007, 12:37 PM
I know what you talking about, it a end that has a notch to open and closed. Most people use to control airflow to skimmers and other equipment involve controling air ratio.

EWC88
02/03/2007, 12:42 PM
Hey I have a question...why wouldn't she need salt in the tub were the water will be getting fed from to put in the tank? Doesn't it need salt? or you put that in yourself?

NanoCube-boy
02/03/2007, 12:51 PM
It's for top off. If you place salt water for top off, the SG will get more denser. Top-off must be in FW because to refresh the water from EVAPORATION. When water evap, the SG get more dense and she doesn't want her water to get more dense. Cool?

power boat jim
02/03/2007, 12:58 PM
Or in a few less words, water evaporates-salt doesnt.

Nano Chris
02/03/2007, 01:04 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9144610#post9144610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shagsbeard
Mine is even simpler... though probably less reliable.

I have a five gallon glass container corked with a rubber stopper... two hoses feed through the cork, one to tube that reaches the bottom of the jug, the other just to the other side of the cork. The one fed to the bottom siphons water out of the jar and into my sump. The other has it's opening where I want the water level to be.

As soon as the water level drops below that level, air is sucked into the bottle, and fresh water comes out. Once the water gets to covering the air intake, the siphon is stopped, and no more water gets put in. Works like a charm... but often the air intake hose gets clogged, so I have to clear it out. When I redesign it, the air intake is going to be replaced with a much wider diameter tube instead of an air hose. Hey could i see some pictures of that, i think i got the idea but would like to see how you got it setup.

NanoCube-boy
02/03/2007, 01:07 PM
yea, i want to see it too.

jdieck
02/03/2007, 01:15 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9148972#post9148972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nise86
Thank you guys for all that information!! So let me get this kinda straight. I would need a bucket filled with ro/do water and salt for the auto-top off to work?

Does anyone have pictures of there auto-top off systems?

Nise:)
Top off is to replace evaporated water. Salt does not evaporate so the top off has to be fresh RO/DI water with no salt added. Otherwise your tank salinity will increase over time as the water evaporates and the salt stay.

jdieck
02/03/2007, 01:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9149588#post9149588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by power boat jim
it is a valve that controls the water flow out of a Calcium reactor, You can probably get it at any local marine fish store. It has barbed ends and slides into airline tubing.
Or you just use an airline tubing with a plastic airline valve in it.
See the container on the top-left of the picture. It is for drinking water and has a lift lever valve in it. I threaded the valve outlet and installed a fitting to connect the airline tubing then installed a quick connect fitting and a little airline valve in the tubing. When the container is empty I just close the lever valve, disconnect the airline tubing, fill it and put it back. No need to change the setting of the little air valve.
I use it for adding supplements but it will work for a small tank top off.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/578/18470UV_Sterilizer.jpg

NanoCube-boy
02/03/2007, 01:28 PM
You mean top left? hehe

jdieck
02/03/2007, 01:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9150000#post9150000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoCube-boy
You mean top left? hehe
:lol: No the other right! (Post edited)

Shagsbeard
02/03/2007, 01:33 PM
I don't have a picture, but it's a model of simplicity.

Take a 5 gallon glass jug... a carboy they call them in the brewing/winemaking field. It has to be rigid since it will hold a slight vaccuum. Get a rubber stopper and drill two holes through it and push rigid air tubes through them both... one to the bottom of the container, the other just though the stopper. Get two lengths of air hose that can both reach the sump. Place the one that supplies air to the bottle at the level that you want the water to stay at and siphon water out of the other. It will flow freely so long as air is allowed in through the air tube, but once it's underwater, a vaccum will form in the bottle which cuts off the siphon. Water will be sucked up the air hose to match the level in the bottle and then all comes to a stop... until... air is allowed back in the air tube due to evaporation and the siphon starts up again.

The problems I have with it are two fold... first, 5 gallons is about two days for me... maybe three. I need a bigger bottle. Secondly, the water that gets trapped in the air tube is held there by capilary action and blocks air even when the end is exposed. I want to replace the air tube with a rigid plastic tube of about 1/2 inch diameter which will not get stopped up by capilary action.

Edit... one trip to the hardware store later... I plugged the end of some one inch PVC with a rubber plug with a rigid air tube in it and replaced the air hose with it. We'll see if that works better over the weekend.

Nano Chris
02/03/2007, 01:39 PM
Kind of what sucks, is i go threw about 3 gallons of top-off water a day, so i guess i should invest in an auto top off system.

nise86
02/03/2007, 03:03 PM
Omg. Thanks for all the help everyone!! I got more help then I thought I would get. Ok so I think I will invest into getting a auto top off system. Hopefully I can get my tank up and running soon. I should be starting to purchase things real soon.

Real quick question. How many powerheads would be good for a 37g?

Thanks once again

-Nise:)

Randall_James
02/03/2007, 08:18 PM
Flow is determined by what you decide to keep in the tank. For starting out you want at least 10X turnover and I would split that between at least 2 powerheads (so you can avoid dead areas and a disaster if one quits). A couple Maxjet1200 would do just fine.

NanoCube-boy
02/04/2007, 12:54 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9150028#post9150028 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
:lol: No the other right! (Post edited)

:lol: My eyes playing games... Cleaning the CPF lighting too much. HAHAH :lol: :eek1: