I can't get it up!

[RobertK]

alk and pH, that is!

Hi,
I have a 70 gallon tank w/ 10 gallon sump. I dose 50 ml B-Ionic daily with a LiterMeter. pH runs 7.9 - 8.1, measured with a new, high quality pH probe and monitor. Alkalinity is 2.75 meq/L and Ca is 460 using Salifert test kits. I've read that while these parameters are all within the acceptable range (except maybe the calcium level), the pH is better in the 8.3 - 8.4 range, and the Ca and Alk levels are at the opposite end of the normal range from each other. I tried the aeration test twice and the pH was the same after aerating with indoor and outdoor air both times (which surprised me because the house is only 4 years old and seems airtight). I'd like to push the pH up higher by raising the alkalinity, but the calcium level won't allow me to go any higher on the B-ionic when dosed in equal parts. The tank seems to be OK, so I don't know if I should be satisfied with these numbers or if I should increase the dose of just the alkalinity part of the B-ionic. Any advice would be most welcome.

Thanks,
Robert

[tonyscoots84]

just a quick thought...

how old is your tank....
have you checked your magnesium levels out... the higher magnesium the easier it will be for you to dose one to an acceptable range and then get the other afterwards at the range desired ;)...

[jdieck]

Sure, you can increase the alkalinity only by using more of the lkalinity part than the Calcium part. If you do not want to exaust your Alkalinity part sooner then you can use Arm and Hammer baking Soda to increase the alkalinity.
Use the calculator to determine how much of it you will need. Dissolve it in some RO/DI water and add it to a high flow area in the sump.
Try not to increase the alkalinity more than 0.5 meq/lt per day although up to 1 meq/lt might be OK so you will need a couple of shots.
Note that higher alkalinity may help to maintain a more stable PH but not necesarily higher as most of the time as you already know the PH is more dependant on the amount of dissolved CO2.
In any case I would double check the calibration of the probe. B-Ionic tends to increase PH so your low level is unusual.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

Enjoy!

[bertoni]

If the aeration test didn't show an increase in pH, something is off. I'd suspect the pH meter. When was it last calibrated, and with what solutions?

[TekCat]

The name of the thread could be misunderstood :D LOL

[RobertK]

Thanks for the replies (and the link to the calculator - cool!).

I've had the tank for years, but last August I tore it down and set it back up again, so the system is actually quite young. Mg level is 1335, so that shouldn't be the problem.

The probe/monitor is properly calibrated. I calibrate it every couple of weeks, using Oakton pH singles 7 and 10 packets purchased from Cole-Parmer. To be sure, I just calibrated it now and it is reading 7.86, just before the lights go on (was reading 7.92 before calibration). Actually, when it drifts out of calibration it tends to give a falsely elevated reading, so if anything the pH reading could be underestimated at any given time.

FYI, here is the probe I'm using - pH probe (http://www.sensorex.com/products/ph_electrodes/process/flat/submersion.html)
Here is the monitor I'm using - pH monitor (http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=5670000)
Here are the calibration solutions - pH buffers (http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=3565302)
All were purchased in 8/06.

I was surprised about the results of the aeration test, too. That's why I repeated it, but got the same results both times.

About the baking soda - How often do you think I'd need to dose it? I'm interested in stability (and ease of maintenance) of course, and would probably opt for unequal portions of B-ionic parts 1 and 2, but that means some of the calcium solution will have to be dumped out, which is a shame.

Thanks again,
Robert

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dose the baked baking soda only when you need alkalinity, and that depends on the tank demand.
If pH runs low, try keeping it at the high end, say 4 meq/L or so.

If that is still not enough to keep pH up, try dosing limewater to boos t pH.
This article has more:

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

[RobertK]

Yes, I read that article and found it very helpful. Thanks for writing it!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Good luck. :)

[RobertK]

Randy,
Do you agree with jdieck that I could also use unequal amounts of the alkalinity and calcium components of the B-ionic to bring the Ca and Alk levels back into line? Is it OK to use unequal parts of a "balanced" two-part additive system?
Robert

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, that is a fine way to go for occasional corrections. :)

[RobertK]

So, if I understand correctly, I should be doing my ongoing daily dosing with equal parts of B-ionic and only using unequal parts intermittently for corrections, rather than using, for example, 40 ml/day B-ionic calcium and 60 ml/day B-ionic alk on an ongoing basis. Is that correct?
Thanks again,
Robert

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes. It should be an unusual event to add different volumes, unless you constantly need to correct for changes caused by water changes with a salt that does not match the tank well enough.

[RobertK]

Thank you very much for clarifying that, and for the wonderful service you provide. I've been reading some more of your articles and threads, and I think that what I'll do is to decrease the amount of B-ionic I'm dosing in order to bring the calcium level down a bit, then use washing soda to correct the low alkalinity, and then take it from there.
Robert

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, that sounds good.

Good luck. :)

[RobertK]

:)

[Bugger]

Did somebody already mention VIAGRA..ha ha