Why hasn't my RBTA...

[55semireef]

Why hasn't my RBTA colored up with Zooxanthellae algae yet? I have no clue to why it hasn't. Its about 5 inches under the surface of my 4x 54 watt Tek T5s with individual reflectors. The spectrums of the bulbs are two pure actinc, one 6000 K and one 7500 K. I feed my RBTA on average 3 times a week usually switching off between shrimp and prime reef flakes. It gets plenty of flow and all my other corals are doing fine. I had no problem getting my Heteractis Crispa to color up. I bought it about 4 inches in diameter completely bleached and not its about 14 inches in diameter with him/her being a cream colored brown with purple tips. So why wouldn't my RBTA color up? It only took my Crispa about 2 months while in the past 3 months my RBTA hasn't done anything except grow a little. Whats wrong?

[redvipe2010]

Both of these in a 55 gallon? Probably chemical war. Also, I'd skip the flake food, and feed only meaty foods. Silversides are my choice along with Rod's food.

[55semireef]

no chemical warfare whatsoever. I don't think chemicle warfare has anything to do with the gaining of zooxanthellae algae. Not to mention I have kept more anemones in the past in a 55 gallon with no signs of stress. I feed all my anemones shrimp which they all seem to love. This is what I fed my Crispa.

[redvipe2010]

I disagree on the chemical war. 55g is too small IMO.

[mwood]

I think T5's are too weak, have you tried halides? ;) Just kidding. :D

Do you run carbon? That would help reduce any warfare if it's taking place. Are there any clowns messing with it? That's what did my RBTA in. It may take time. It all depends on the degree of the stress the nem was under.

[Slakker]

Maybe it's the spectrum of light, too? I honestly can't say that I know this for sure, but from reading a lot of posts here it sounds like a lot of people have their anemones under bulbs in the 10k+ range. Maybe the RBTA is just not satisfied with the spectrum...or maybe I am totally off base here...just a thought.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9160657#post9160657 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redvipe2010
I disagree on the chemical war. 55g is too small IMO.

So you think my RBTA not regaining zooxanthellae alage is being caused by chemical warfare by my Heteractis Crispa? Would like to go further into detail about why?

Do you run carbon? That would help reduce any warfare if it's taking place. Are there any clowns messing with it? That's what did my RBTA in. It may take time. It all depends on the degree of the stress the nem was under.

Yes I run carbon but carbon does not 100% remove the presence of my anemones. Carbon does partly remove chemicle warfare but its only removing the chemicles that are touching the carbon which is very little when you compare it to the total volume of the tank. BTW mwood, your blue Haddoni is very impressive. I love it. It has grown so much since. Good job.;)

Maybe it's the spectrum of light, too? I honestly can't say that I know this for sure, but from reading a lot of posts here it sounds like a lot of people have their anemones under bulbs in the 10k+ range. Maybe the RBTA is just not satisfied with the spectrum...or maybe I am totally off base here...just a thought.

I don't think it is the spectrum of light. I have been told that my spectrum of light is preferred by anemones. Anemones live in shallow waters and usually receive a yellowish-white spectrum in the wild. I have on 6000K bulb and one 7500K bulb which anemones prefer. Not to mention, I already have brought back one anemone from being bleached before so I know its very possible now.

[RedSonja]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9172654#post9172654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
So you think my RBTA not regaining zooxanthellae alage is being caused by chemical warfare by my Heteractis Crispa? Would like to go further into detail about why?

I'm not the person who posted this, and this is just guessing on my part. But if there is chemical warfare going on, it could be stressing the RBTA out enough that the majority of its energy is being expended just staying alive.

My Divers Den GBTA has lost a bit of its color in the past week, and I only have BTA's in the system. It's eating like a pig and it gets good light (including several hours natural sunlight through a window in the afternoon) and strong intermittent flow. I have one prop system finished and will soon be moving one color morph of RBTA to it, hopefully that helps all the BTA's.

Just my opinions there, take it at face value what ya paid for it ;)

-Sonja

[redvipe2010]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9173193#post9173193 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RedSonja
But if there is chemical warfare going on, it could be stressing the RBTA out enough that the majority of its energy is being expended just staying alive.

Exactly! It hard for it to get healthy if it's fighting off something else. Not the ideal environment in the least.

Also a 55g is just two small for both. What else do you have in there?

[sulp]

Carbon does partly remove chemicle warfare but its only removing the chemicles that are touching the carbon which is very little when you compare it to the total volume of the tank

If you are running carbon in a filter, every inch of your volume of water is "touching" the cabon many times an hour.

[GSMguy]

i think you have plenty of light for a BTA i also think the chemical warfare is probobly not the issue try feeding silversides and give it time
oh and run carbon 24/7

[sulp]

I keep mine under 10,000k 150w Halides and I don't think it could hold any more zooxanthellae.

In the shallows anemones get more of a bright white light.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9176843#post9176843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redvipe2010
Exactly! It hard for it to get healthy if it's fighting off something else. Not the ideal environment in the least.

Also a 55g is just two small for both. What else do you have in there?

Those are the only anemones I have in there. I doubt it has anything to do with chemicle warfare. Both anemones are on opposite sides of the tank and are getting different levels of flow. Sure they can sense each others presence but I seriously doubt it has anything to do with chemicle warfare. I am sure some of my other corals would show negative signs if chemicle warfare was really going on and so far they have not. Not to mention, my RBTA is really small and would pose no true threat to my Crispa which happens to be a sand dwelling anemone while my RBTA is obviously a rock dwelling anemone. That means they don't even really come into contact in the wild. I have still not read any negative relationship between the genus Heteractis and E. Quadricolor. I know S. Gigantea and E. Quadricolor have a negative relationship on each other but not Het. and Quad.

Ususally anemones only pursue chemicle warfare when they either feel endangered or are fighting for space. This is not the case for me.


If you are running carbon in a filter, every inch of your volume of water is "touching" the cabon many times an hour.

True, water is hitting the carbon but just because every "inch" is touching doesn't mean 100% of any possible chemicle warfare is being removed. Its not that efficient. Even with carbon running thoughanemones can sense the presense of each other. Anemones can sense the presense of another in the wild. In a 55 gallon tank they can easily sense each other. But I still beleive chemicle warfare is not the answer. I think its something a little bit more complicated. My RBTA has acquired a darker pigment but zooxanthellae has still not inhibited the tissue around the oral disk or in the tentacles. I once read that for an anemone to increase the zooxanthellae population there has to be zooxanthellae initially. I am thinking my RBTA has no zoox. whatsoever thus it hasn't darkened up.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9178021#post9178021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sulp
I keep mine under 10,000k 150w Halides and I don't think it could hold any more zooxanthellae.

In the shallows anemones get more of a bright white light.

Yes my tank puts out more of a lower color spectrum which means more intensity and more of a white light.

[redvipe2010]

You have obviously convinced yourself. Do let us know if you find a more complicated problem than chemical war in your system.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9185670#post9185670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redvipe2010
You have obviously convinced yourself. Do let us know if you find a more complicated problem than chemical war in your system.

All I did was discount the possibilty of chemicle warfare. I did not convince myself of nothing and you have convinced me of nothing either. :thumbsup: Next time you should answer a question that is less complicated so you actually know what your talking about.

[redvipe2010]

I feel sorry for your anemones.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9193481#post9193481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redvipe2010
I feel sorry for your anemones.

You feel sorry for this?

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i263/cichlidfort/Picturesofmytank052.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i263/cichlidfort/Picturesofmytank053.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i263/cichlidfort/Picturesofmytank050.jpg

ok then...

[god910]

That anemone is big enough to take up 25% of the floor space of your tank... :eek2:

On a side not, I've got an GBTA in my tank that split, and the clone (Mr. Bubbles #2 as he was so appropriately named) hasn't colored out yet. It's been bleached since day one. Whilest Mr. Bubbles is doing great. (been about 4-5 months) Has only moved once, and it eating great.

The point of all this is, I'm running a 4 bulb Tek Light 48" T5 setup, with 2 D&D Actinics, and 2 D&D 11K's (60/40's) So I don't think the lighting is your problem. :confused:

[55semireef]

god910, I agree with you. I don't think it has anything to do with chemicle warfare or my lighting. I think its that my RBTA has no zooxanthellae at all thus it can't color up. The anemone has to have some zooxanthellae so it can color up right? If it doesn't have any zoox., how is it suppose to acquire zoox.?

[chris79]

disregard

[mwood]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9211331#post9211331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
god910, I agree with you. I don't think it has anything to do with chemicle warfare or my lighting. I think its that my RBTA has no zooxanthellae at all thus it can't color up. The anemone has to have some zooxanthellae so it can color up right? If it doesn't have any zoox., how is it suppose to acquire zoox.?

It would have to regrow zooanthellae the same way your sebae did after you bought it. I think it took mine several weeks to regrow, but it may not at all if it is too stressed. Under what conditions did it bleach in the first place? Have you corrected that issue? Is any fish bothering it? You know nems, as long as they are healthy all is good, but if it starts to go down hill there may be little you can do.

[Angel*Fish]

55semireef,
This will sound insane to some people...but I would feed it some high quality flake food everyday for a while. Omega 1 or even Spectrum.

[RokleM]

Bleaching is a common issue with the T5's. Do you have any of the UV bulbs installed? I had some bleaching issues on my 58, swapped out a couple with UV bulbs, and colors came back a little (but not to original).

[Slakker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9226629#post9226629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwood
It would have to regrow zooanthellae the same way your sebae did after you bought it. I think it took mine several weeks to regrow, but it may not at all if it is too stressed. Under what conditions did it bleach in the first place? Have you corrected that issue? Is any fish bothering it? You know nems, as long as they are healthy all is good, but if it starts to go down hill there may be little you can do.

I think what he's getting at is that if there is absolutely NO zooxanthellae algae left alive in the tissue of the anemone, is it even capable of regrowth?

[seaduck]

Can we see a pic of the rbta?

[55semireef]

My friend bluecarpet had it under PCs and this is what caused the anemone to bleach. Bluecarpet had no idea this would do this to the RBTA this quickly and decided to give the RBTA to me. The RBTA has improved only slightly but I have yet to see any major signs of zooxanthellae. All I see is a darker pigment which means nothing. I will try and get some pictures tomorrow. I am very busy tonight.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9227786#post9227786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
55semireef,
This will sound insane to some people...but I would feed it some high quality flake food everyday for a while. Omega 1 or even Spectrum.

It doesn't sound insane at all but I would like to know why you would give me this suggestion.

Thanks

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9229248#post9229248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RokleM
Bleaching is a common issue with the T5's. Do you have any of the UV bulbs installed? I had some bleaching issues on my 58, swapped out a couple with UV bulbs, and colors came back a little (but not to original).


I honestly don't think it has anything to do with my T5s. If my H. Crispa came back from a bleached state, I am pretty sure a RBTA can too. I don't know too much about UV bulbs. Can you explain what they are? All I know is that I am keeping lps, clams, and some sps without any issues of light. I would think a RBTA would have plenty.

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9235874#post9235874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
It doesn't sound insane at all but I would like to know why you would give me this suggestion.

Thanks

I was just thinking that some extra vitamins & other nutrients might be helpful.

I just read your first post again and you say the BTA is "cream colored brown"? It sounds like it does have zooxanthellae. Is it the red/pink color it's missing? That's a different matter I thought.

If that's the case, I'd feed it some frozen cyclopeeze, it's full of astaxanthins, a red pigment in algae. Might make no difference, but it couldn't hurt. Are you absolutely positive this was really a rose? (Since it was already bleached when you got it)

[Angel*Fish]

Clearly I can't read at all - I reread again and saw you feed "usually switching off between shrimp and prime reef flakes".

What kind of shrimp? Do you mean frozen mysis?

BTA's also need whole chopped up silversides, IMHO.

[55semireef]

I feed them chopped up fresh shrimp and sometimes I feed them prime reef flakes. I have never used silversides before. The shirmp I use always does me well.

[Angel*Fish]

I'm not trying to suggest that you're not feeding him right. I can see it might have sounded that way.

[55semireef]

No I understood you clearly. I will get some pictures up in a few. They are going to be look down pictures since my RBTA is now positioned in the back of the tank.

[Amphiprion]

Hmm, lighting is fine, though the sudden change in intensity may prolong the amount of time for the anemone to recover. Color spectrum doesn't seem to be very important (except for a few species), so long as the source of light emits adequate amounts of PAR. Chemical warfare could be a potential issue, possibly moreso as the anemones grow. Do try silversides. The E. quadricolor should enjoy it and IME, fish meat is the best food you can feed to H. crispa. It doesn't even have to be enriched. How often do you feed? Try increasing the frequency to around every other day. The UV bulbs are nice, but they are significantly brighter than the Tek lights, so I don't think that that would be entirely advantageous at this point. Maybe after the anemone recovers.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9244491#post9244491 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Amphiprion
Hmm, lighting is fine, though the sudden change in intensity may prolong the amount of time for the anemone to recover. Color spectrum doesn't seem to be very important (except for a few species), so long as the source of light emits adequate amounts of PAR. Chemical warfare could be a potential issue, possibly moreso as the anemones grow. Do try silversides. The E. quadricolor should enjoy it and IME, fish meat is the best food you can feed to H. crispa. It doesn't even have to be enriched. How often do you feed? Try increasing the frequency to around every other day. The UV bulbs are nice, but they are significantly brighter than the Tek lights, so I don't think that that would be entirely advantageous at this point. Maybe after the anemone recovers.

I ususally feed on average about every 3-4 days.

Here is a picture:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i263/cichlidfort/Picturesofmytank066.jpg

[Angel*Fish]

Well it would be a pita, but what about borrowing a healthy one for a while? Maybe there are none of the right kind of zooxanthellae in your tank?

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9252561#post9252561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
Well it would be a pita, but what about borrowing a healthy one for a while? Maybe there are none of the right kind of zooxanthellae in your tank? Are you suggesting that a healthy one would transfer zooxanthellae to my bleached one if they were next to each other touching? Is that possible? However, I wouldn't mine "borrowing" one though.:D :D :D

[Angel*Fish]

If there are none in your tank, I can't think of any other way to get them in there. I would think that some be would released into the water by the healthy one and picked up by your bleached one. They expel their water & take in new regularly.

I should mention that although I'm aware that there are indeed different species of zooxanthellae, I don't know how species specific they are to their hosts. Or if they are at all. (IOW why can't your BTA use take up the ones from your other anemone? And that leads us back to the biological warfare and nutrition issues to make the BTA as strong as possible)

Nevertheless, it seems like the logical thing to try.

[55semireef]

I know zooxanthellae lives within the tissue of corals and anemones. The only way I think zooxanthellae would be expelled is if the healthy RBTA expelled it itself and the bleached one somehow took it in if it landed in the right spot.

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9252848#post9252848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
I know zooxanthellae lives within the tissue of corals and anemones. The only way I think zooxanthellae would be expelled is if the healthy RBTA expelled it itself and the bleached one somehow took it in if it landed in the right spot. I disagree, I'm pretty sure there will be a certain amount of "leakage" of some in a healthy anemone. Too much water going in and out.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9252876#post9252876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
I disagree, I'm pretty sure there will be a certain amount of "leakage" of some in a healthy anemone. Too much water going in and out. Water, not zooxanthellae and even if zooxanthellae leaked out, the chances of it grasping on to my bleached RBTA is remote because of all the current I have. I am not discounting your theory, I just don't see it as a plausible one. But I REALLY appreciate you chiming in trying to help me.;)