can I get a mandarine? *4 week old tank*

[jimrawr]

A local reefer is selling his mandarin and I really want to buy it. I know they are supposed to be in established tanks, but i dont know exactly why. My tank is only 4 weeks old, but I used fully live/cured rock from the begining. I can see pods pretty regularly on my live rock..

Will this guy survive? Why is it exactly that they need established tanks?

[SptfireXIV]

I wouldn't. He will starve in a 30 gallon tank, regardless of how long it has been set up.

[Waterbury Guy]

http://www.reefcorner.com/SpecimenSheets/mandarinfish.htm

[jimrawr]

Hm, I havent heard that they need a larger tank. On LiveAquaria it says 30 gallons is fine..

Why would it starve, they only feed off rock? They wont eat when I feed everything else?

[zooty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9173118#post9173118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimrawr
Hm, I havent heard that they need a larger tank. On LiveAquaria it says 30 gallons is fine..

Why would it starve, they only feed off rock? They wont eat when I feed everything else?
Yes and yes.
They normally only eat pods off the rocks. Typically a large tank with a lot of rock is required to sustain a pod population large enough to sustain the mandarin.
There are accounts of people who could get them to eat other food but no guarantee.
I wouldn't do it in your tank mainly because it is so young. The size and amount of rock may not help either.

[Sk8r]

Right. They only eat pods, unless he demonstrates that it will eat something frozen, and it will cost you 100.00 a month to have enough air-shipped to your house, or the animal will starve.

[jimrawr]

lets say i watch him eat frozen foods, then would it be safe? is that the only issue, him feeding?

[sperry]

Mandarins eat pods 24/7. Even if you see a bunch in your tank a mandarin would eat so many so fast that the population would die out in a short period of time. If you had a large 75G + tank with a lot of mature rock chances are there would be enough pods over a large area that they could reproduce faster than the fish could eat them. Especially if you had a refuigm they could reproduce in free of mandarin predation. Some people get lucky and find the rare mandarin that will eat other foods like frozen mysis but even that wont keep one healthy forever. They NEED the pods as part of their diet.

[Waterbury Guy]

Your tank has been up since Dec '06, what other fish do you have?

[jimrawr]

Just one clown fish. Yeah i will pass on the mandarine then. I wouldnt want him to perish..

Thanks for the info guys

[SptfireXIV]

They're great little fish, but they're just best suited to big tanks. Its a shame too, they would make great nano tank fish.

[Krazy]

Glad you made the right choice :)

[Twisted]

there was a magazine article a couple months ago talking about keeping mandarins in a nano tank. I don't remember what magazine it was in. They basically said the two nano tank owners that claimed to have kept mandarins in thier nano tank were the only two that had claimed success.
The more or less had to put special foods in a glass tube the refered too as the mandarin bar if I remember correctly.
These guys did a lot of work to make thier mandarins take to frozen or freeze dried foods.

So while it is possible, it has only had a couple of success stories, and I am sure after that article enough people tried it that a few more may have succeded.

But unless you have a store that carries the foods mentioned in that article I wouldn't attempt it. I am not sure what magazine had that article but I am sure I can find it if someone had an interest in it.

[jimrawr]

Thanks Twisted..

I am going to pass on it unless I can find one that takes to frozen foods

[Duddly01]

I really don't think the size of the tank is the problem, the age is however. There is no way in 4 weeks you have built up enough of a pod population. If you want one in the future I would start culturing Tigger pods (from Reef Nutrition) or the like, setup a refugium (hang on back type would work fine) and setup a small rock pile, in a corner or something as a safe zone for the pods to multiply that the fish can't get into. The more porous the rock the better. If you want one avoid other fish that eat pods, like the 6 line wrasse, etc.

When your tank has been running 6 months at least and you have some safe zones for pods to reproduce (rock piles, refugium, etc.) I would say go for it. They are absolutely beautiful fish and a joy to watch.

I purchased a small (1.25") mandarin myself 2 weeks ago and he is still fat and happy, but two weeks is still too early to judge. During the day he is constantly on the hunt. At night he curls up like a kitten in the same spot to sleep, he does not feed 24/7. My tank is only 50 gal. with a small refugium. I am still culturing baby brine shrimp and Tigger-pods in 1 QT mason jars to make certain he doesn't run out of food, but that is playing it safe.

[horstman2]

Pass. i have a 120 and listened to the LFS who said it would be fine to put him in there, even thou the tanks was only 4 months old. I tried putting Pods, reef bugs etc in there.....He made it 2 weeks and died this morning. I am really bummed and will NEVER buy a fish without research. Good call coming to this board to check.

[Nano Chris]

I would have waited a year or more, i plan on getting one, but I'm waiting increase my pod population and maybe order some online, so i can get a good population before i even get the fish.

[Timmy44221]

I have also ready many articles that say mandrins will eat fish eggs. I cant remeber the specific type, buy they had good success.

[2ndThief]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9173594#post9173594 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Twisted
there was a magazine article a couple months ago talking about keeping mandarins in a nano tank. I don't remember what magazine it was in.

Tropical Fish Hobbyist February 2007 pages 122 and 126

[lakeRat]

I'm no expert, as I have just joined this hobby in mid December, but I have done a lot of research into Mandarins because I plan to keep one myself.

The OP has made a wise choice to pass on the Mandarin. It was mentioned that the minimum tank size for a Mandarin is 30g, but this is misleading. From the reading I've done, a Mandarin requires around 80 to 90 lbs of live rock to "hunt" pods. So, if you could cram 80+ lbs of live rock into a 30g, I guess you might get lucky and the mandarin survive. :)

On another note, an established tank is required for multiple reasons. Pods are good to have in your tank, whether you're feeding a mandarin or not. If your tank hasn't established itself, and you dump a pod-hungry mandarin in, you're likely going to both kill off your pod population and your mandarin shortly after. Then if you still want a mandarin, you're back to square one waiting to build up the pod population.

I have a 55g, 10g fuge, 10g sump, 87lbs LR, and so many pods it looks like my rock is moving (even though this tank is two months old), but in about 9 months I plan to buy a mandarin...if the LFS shows me it will eat other foods.

[serpentman]

Wise move jimrawr.

[SptfireXIV]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9174373#post9174373 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Duddly01
I really don't think the size of the tank is the problem, the age is however. There is no way in 4 weeks you have built up enough of a pod population. If you want one in the future I would start culturing Tigger pods (from Reef Nutrition) or the like, setup a refugium (hang on back type would work fine) and setup a small rock pile, in a corner or something as a safe zone for the pods to multiply that the fish can't get into. The more porous the rock the better. If you want one avoid other fish that eat pods, like the 6 line wrasse, etc.

When your tank has been running 6 months at least and you have some safe zones for pods to reproduce (rock piles, refugium, etc.) I would say go for it. They are absolutely beautiful fish and a joy to watch.

I purchased a small (1.25") mandarin myself 2 weeks ago and he is still fat and happy, but two weeks is still too early to judge. During the day he is constantly on the hunt. At night he curls up like a kitten in the same spot to sleep, he does not feed 24/7. My tank is only 50 gal. with a small refugium. I am still culturing baby brine shrimp and Tigger-pods in 1 QT mason jars to make certain he doesn't run out of food, but that is playing it safe.


The size is important because a mandarin will exhaust the pod population in a 30 gallon tank much quicker than they can reproduce.

[Duddly01]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9188884#post9188884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SptfireXIV
The size is important because a mandarin will exhaust the pod population in a 30 gallon tank much quicker than they can reproduce.

Agreed, if the tank itself is the only source of food. As was displayed in the articles in Tropical Fish Hobbyist. I believe my 50gal. wouldn't support a mandarin on its own, that is why I have a refugium and I am culturing baby brine and tigger pods in seperate containers as well. You can have a Mandarin in a tank smaller than 100-200 gal., but it will require extra thought and work. Heck, an adult mandarin would likely decimate a 150gal tank in no time if there were no safe zones for the pods to reproduce.

Timmy44221,
The eggs they will sometimes eat is capelin roe, fish eggs used for sushi. You can find it at your local asian market for about $4.00. I add a 1/2 teaspoon of it to my tank every other day myself but everyone including my Clarkiis love it so I am not certain how much the Mandarin is getting.

[SptfireXIV]

Does that really work long-term though? I'm asking this out of curiosity, I don't know the answer.

I wouldn't think many of the pods in a refugium would make their way to the display just because they'd mostly stay in the rockwork. At least I wouldn't think enough would make it up to the display that could support a mandarin.

[Duddly01]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9190574#post9190574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SptfireXIV
Does that really work long-term though? I'm asking this out of curiosity, I don't know the answer.

I wouldn't think many of the pods in a refugium would make their way to the display just because they'd mostly stay in the rockwork. At least I wouldn't think enough would make it up to the display that could support a mandarin.

From my understanding, which is from a novice point of view, not in any way an expert, the young copepods are small and usually free swimming. I know Tigger-pods swim around as much as sit in the rocks or macroalgae. There are many that are regularly pumped into the main tank. If you have an above tank or hob refugium they will just pour into the tank by the gravity return. They will then find hinding places to grow out or be eaten as young. You could also regularly use a brine shrimp net or the like to harvest pods. I see alot of them swimming and on the glass in my refugium. I tried a small brine shrimp net and it worked okay to catch a few and move them to the display, though I haven't made it a regular practice to harvest in this way.

[EdKruzel]

The tank size and age has far less to do than the experience of the hobbyist and the environment set into the tank.

For an optimum environment something like a hang on gravity return refugium is ideal, but there are many ways to build safe zones within the tank.
Rock with small pores and long crevices that are too small for a mandarin to enter are good homes for fauna.
Before my last move I kept a mandarin in a 37 cube for several years. Once I sold the tank I gave the mandarin to a friend and he placed it in a very large reef; this fish is about 6yrs old (captive time) and still doing quite well.
For the past year I've kept a mandarin in a nano (was in a 20 and back in Oct I downsized to the 10).
This fish feeds on pods I occasional see running in the system but its main staple are fish eggs fed daily.
When purchased it was only (about) a 1/2'' in length, but is now closer to about 2''s long and doing well.

This is not a recommendation or a suggestion that everyone go out and try a mandarin, but if it is a fish you wish to put in a small tank, I challenge those hobbyists to educate themselves and if prepared design a system that is suitable and dedicated to its needs.
Preparation and a somewhat species environment will render easy success and a long life for this species.

[zoomfish1]

The problem, as I see it, is the original poster has only 4 weeks experience in the hobby. So, the obvious answer to his question is no, you probably shouldn't get a mandarin. There are many experienced hobbiest, like myself, who would not venture to keep a "hard to keep" species in their tanks.

I do like the dedicated species tank as described above. The necessary feedings to keep the fish alive is the only way it would survive in any tank under a 100g or so. Without these feedings they would probably not survive. Their downfall, as I see it, is they are just too good at what they do.

They are beautiful fish and I would love to have one in my tank. Even with the rock, sand, refugum and thousands of pods, I think they will clean out their food source and eventually starve unless trained to eat frozen or supplemental feedings.

My 2 cents are now up. Thanks for listening.

[amonte]

I put my manderin in my 24 gal aqua pod because my blenny started to pick on him in the 75gal. There were lots of pods in the 24 gal and he was happy in there for a few weeks. I pulled him out yesterday. poor thing didn't make it.

["F" is 4 Fish]

just wondering, are they readily eat fish eggs or is it something they need to be train on?

[EdKruzel]

From day 1, when the eggs hit the water it was munching them down and then picked the remianing eggs off the bottom.

[Waterbury Guy]

I tried the flying fish row with mine, didn't take to it.

["F" is 4 Fish]

have anyone else have success with feeding them fish egg
if it's possible, i think i'll like to try a mandarine, well of course it'll be a long way for me though. i don't even have a tank setup yet. hopefully by summer i'll have my 40gal. up and running.

EdKruzel, is it expensive feeding your mandarine fish egg as its stable diet?

[hawkfish21]

I have kept my mandarin in my 55 for over a year now. She loves MYSIS!!

[IPowderBlueTang]

I bought a mandarin from someone that had it for 2 years and took it 2 months to wipe out my copods in my 120 gal. I thought it was going to starve to death. This week I watch it hunt down the mysis and brineshrimp that was floating by, when I was feeding the tank inhabitants. I was relieved that it might not end up starving to death in my tank.

[EdKruzel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9194964#post9194964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by "F" is 4 Fish
EdKruzel, is it expensive feeding your mandarine fish egg as its stable diet?

Not at all, I spend about $5 a month.

[650-IS350]

just do the mandarin diner...

http://melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

I feed mine cyclopeeze granuals and mixed sinking pellets....