Now you have done it. (Lobster Continuation) [Archive]

Nu2SW

02/14/2007, 01:04 AM

would you rather be boiled alive and die a slow death or zapped by electricity and get it over done quickly?

Does it matter if it is humane?

Animals were put here to serve us for two reasons.

#1 Food

#2 workforce

And now a days
#3 Pets

We still need them, its no different from now or 1000 years ago.

Nowadays people have gotten to soft, like peta and such. Back in roman times or even a 1000 years ago. No one thought, oh its cruel to eat cows. It was life!

My 2cents

Reefugee

02/14/2007, 01:10 AM

Back in Roman times, it was entertaining to see people kill each other for fun. :eek1: Let the slaughter begin...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237894#post9237894 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
Back in roman times or even a 1000 years ago. No one thought, oh its cruel to eat cows. It was life!

My 2cents

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 07:33 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237894#post9237894 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
Animals were put here to serve us for two reasons.

#1 Food

#2 workforce

One has to wonder what flatworms are here for then. Or mantis shrimp. Or majanos. Or acro bugs. Or Aiptasia. They sure as hell don't taste good, and I put more work in than they give back.

Nu2SW

02/14/2007, 09:55 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9238511#post9238511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juaninsac
One has to wonder what flatworms are here for then. Or mantis shrimp. Or majanos. Or acro bugs. Or Aiptasia. They sure as hell don't taste good, and I put more work in than they give back.

They serve other animals as food for them. Thats what they are here for.

Everything is on this world for a reason to serve as food or help....

Or as minh pointed out... Our primal entertainment. LOL sorry had to do it :D:eek1:

funman1

02/14/2007, 10:38 AM

Hey don't get me wrong I'm no tree hugger.
But they zap it to stun it and then shell it while it's still alive.

I think boiling is humane, it's over pretty fast
;)

~Steve~

Justin74

02/14/2007, 11:08 AM

And what pray tell is wrong with tree hugging :eek:

-Justin

jlfnjlf

02/14/2007, 11:12 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9240025#post9240025 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Justin74
And what pray tell is wrong with tree hugging :eek:

-Justin

Depends on the tree ;)

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 11:23 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9239522#post9239522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
They serve other animals as food for them. Thats what they are here for.

Everything is on this world for a reason to serve as food or help....

Or as minh pointed out... Our primal entertainment. LOL sorry had to do it :D:eek1:

:rolleyes:

You really weren't kidding. They're all put here to benefit humans, eh? You a creationist?

Fragmented

02/14/2007, 11:29 AM

There are a lot of inhumane things that go on. The way I see it, it is the responsibility of thinking people to put a stop to it. Standing by and just watching it happen is condoning it.

You don't have to hug the trees, but making sure thay still exist in the future would be a good thing.

H20Sidhe

02/14/2007, 12:08 PM

Nu2SW

02/14/2007, 12:31 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9240194#post9240194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fragmented
There are a lot of inhumane things that go on. The way I see it, it is the responsibility of thinking people to put a stop to it. Standing by and just watching it happen is condoning it.

You don't have to hug the trees, but making sure thay still exist in the future would be a good thing.

I grasp that statement, but at the same time.I think as a race we over think things WAY too much. Especially people with nothing to do in life.

no I am not a creationist. I do not follow anything. Too me it makes perfect and common sense.

But as I said, Its just My opinion and people may think alike or dis-like it.

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 12:53 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9240748#post9240748 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nu2SW
no I am not a creationist. I do not follow anything. Too me it makes perfect and common sense.

That all animals were "put" here for human's benefit? What do you suppose they were doing for the hundreds of millions of years before we showed up on the scene? Warming up the planet for us?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Nu2SW

02/14/2007, 01:41 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9240938#post9240938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juaninsac
That all animals were "put" here for human's benefit? What do you suppose they were doing for the hundreds of millions of years before we showed up on the scene? Warming up the planet for us?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

LOL. Its ok, for some (like you, I suppose from your reply) they believe animals were here long before man.

For others a divine being created the earth, plants,waters, animals and then man in 6 days. ( saving the best for last LOL :rollface: )

It just depends on what you believe or think.
:rollface:

Unarce

02/14/2007, 02:36 PM

What the hell happened? I thought this was a lobster thread!

:D

funman1

02/14/2007, 02:55 PM

hahah, I guess I started it now.

Ummm no further comment...
:)

Nu2SW

02/14/2007, 02:55 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9241782#post9241782 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Unarce
What the hell happened? I thought this was a lobster thread!

:D

LOL i dont know. guess as good as mine. someone didnt like my opinion?
:rollface: :bounce2: :bounce3: :bounce1: :dance: :hmm2: :jester: :lmao: :lolspin:

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 03:21 PM

The problem is that it's not just an opinion Edwin. The logical extension of that opinion is a rationale for destructive behavior.

After all, if animals are here solely for human benefit, what's the harm in dynamiting coral reefs for food fish, burning down the rainforest to raise cattle, or draining the Everglades and filling it up with track homes? Okay, granted, that's a bit of a stretch from killing lobsters but I hope you can see my point. I remember a bit in the Bible about man being here to preserve God's creation. I would hope that a belief in God would make someone feel more responsible for ensuring protection of animals, not less so.

Juan

tacocat

02/14/2007, 03:29 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9242127#post9242127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juaninsac
The problem is that it's not just an opinion Edwin. The logical extension of that opinion is a rationale for destructive behavior.

After all, if animals are here solely for human benefit, what's the harm in dynamiting coral reefs for food fish, burning down the rainforest to raise cattle, or draining the Everglades and filling it up with track homes?

Those are examples of overharvesting. Animals bnefit other animals through service or consumption. You need to maintain suitable habitat in order to keep a sustainable harvest. I think the two of you are reading way too much into this.

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 03:31 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9242176#post9242176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
Those are examples of overharvesting. Animals bnefit other animals through service or consumption. You need to maintain suitable habitat in order to keep a sustainable harvest. I think the two of you are reading way too much into this.

Yeah, you're probably right.

GreshamH

02/14/2007, 05:29 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237788#post9237788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by funman1
Well it's sort of a continuation of the lobster thread a few weeks ago.

http://www.secretlifeoflobsters.com/blog/2006/06/how-to-kill-lobster-redux.asp

Is this humane?

How is it any different how commercial operations handle any livestock for consumption?

Crabs, Fish, clams, squid, cattle, trees, etc. Yes, trees and plants :D remember those studies that show they feel pain? Don't go stepping on grass, or worse, cut it in half with a dull blade.

How about killing animals with chemicals? You wouldn't spray RAID on a group of humans, but you wouldn't give it a second thought to shoot it at ants, roaches, etc.

How about how Alligators kill their prey? Yah, drowning your victem and letting it decompose prior to eating sure is humane.

How about how whales kill so much krill? They consume them ALIVE and let the acids in their stomach do the work.

How about bacteria? I see commercials every day about killing billions of bacteria cells. MASS slaugher on the highest degree.

I eat fish, shellfish, meat, veggies and I have killed billions of ants, bacteria and blades of grass. Am I an inhumane murderer?

Bdimas

02/14/2007, 05:50 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9243168#post9243168 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
How is it any different how commercial operations handle any livestock for consumption?

Crabs, Fish, clams, squid, cattle, trees, etc. Yes, trees and plants :D remember those studies that show they feel pain? Don't go stepping on grass, or worse, cut it in half with a dull blade.

How about killing animals with chemicals? You wouldn't spray RAID on a group of humans, but you wouldn't give it a second thought to shoot it at ants, roaches, etc.

How about how Alligators kill their prey? Yah, drowning your victem and letting it decompose prior to eating sure is humane.

How about how whales kill so much krill? They consume them ALIVE and let the acids in their stomach do the work.

How about bacteria? I see commercials every day about killing billions of bacteria cells. MASS slaugher on the highest degree.

I eat fish, shellfish, meat, veggies and I have killed billions of ants, bacteria and blades of grass. Am I an inhumane murderer?

LMAO!

funman1

02/14/2007, 06:15 PM

I did this as kind of a joke, that well; exploded.
I totally agree with you Gresh.

Check this out though!!! This is pretty cool
http://www.marineeco.com/clawgame/index.htm

GreshamH

02/14/2007, 06:31 PM

I was just having fun :D

These kind of debates are fun ones for me as there is no answer, just opinions.

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 06:34 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9243663#post9243663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
I was just having fun :D

These kind of debates are fun ones for me as there is no answer, just opinions.

IBTL. ;)

GreshamH

02/14/2007, 06:35 PM

While we're on this, wasn't Buddah against harming any life, yet he yanked leaves of a LIVING tree to eat?

juaninsac

02/14/2007, 06:40 PM

Debatable whether that harms it. <shrug>

FWIW, I like to boil my crustaceans alive.

GreshamH

02/14/2007, 06:50 PM

It's all debatable. One scientist puts out a study saying fish feel pain, while another puts one out saying just the opposite. England lets PETA push them into no sportfishing off scientist #1 report, while tossing out #2. If #2 had a lobby group like PETA behind him, maybe sportfishing in England would still be legal?

Over the years many reports have been published stating plants have feelings as well. Just as many have been published stating the opposite. What's Buddahs stance on that? :D Where do you draw the line on what life can and can't be harmed by what? Remove enough leaves, the tree dies. Buddah was against any voilance, but some might feel that pulling a leaf off a tree caused pain, which IMO equal voilance against that tree ;)

juaninsac

02/15/2007, 12:17 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9243800#post9243800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
It's all debatable. One scientist puts out a study saying fish feel pain, while another puts one out saying just the opposite. England lets PETA push them into no sportfishing off scientist #1 report, while tossing out #2. If #2 had a lobby group like PETA behind him, maybe sportfishing in England would still be legal?

Over the years many reports have been published stating plants have feelings as well. Just as many have been published stating the opposite. What's Buddahs stance on that? :D Where do you draw the line on what life can and can't be harmed by what? Remove enough leaves, the tree dies. Buddah was against any voilance, but some might feel that pulling a leaf off a tree caused pain, which IMO equal voilance against that tree ;)

I dunno.

The silly thing is that sportfishing may have needed to be stopped there in England for other reasons. Fish feeling pain is an incredibly silly reason to stop it; wiping out fish pop'ns seems a much better reason. Some people get up in arms about how cows are treated when they're slaughtered. It doesn't really concern me. There's no shortage of cows on the planet. Meanwhile, bluefin tuna (among lots of other fish) are stripped from the ocean at devastating, unsustainable levels, and no one blinks an eye. "It's just a fish" they say. Fake vegetarians that think they're being more environmentally conscious by "only eating fish" will happily dine on farm raised salmon that causes enormous environmental damage to coastline habitats. There are better alternatives.

The problem is that a lot of people don't care to investigate those alternatives unless they care to protect the planet in the first place. I guess this is why Edwin's initial comment bugged me so much. :D

Reefugee

02/15/2007, 12:29 PM

My wife always wants to eat "happy" animals such as free range chicken.

My theory: It's cruel to kill a "happy" animal. Why not eat those unhappy animals that don't want to live? ;-) Killed two birds (or chicken) with one stone.

juaninsac

02/15/2007, 12:33 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249257#post9249257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefugee
My wife always wants to eat "happy" animals such as free range chicken.

My theory: It's cruel to kill a "happy" animal. Why not eat those unhappy animals that don't want to live? ;-) Killed two birds (or chicken) with one stone.

Minh, always the comedian.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

tacocat

02/15/2007, 01:00 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249177#post9249177 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juaninsac
Meanwhile, bluefin tuna (among lots of other fish) are stripped from the ocean at devastating, unsustainable levels, and no one blinks an eye.

That's not sportfishing. That's commercial fishing. Most sport fisherman practice catch & release these days. Most sport fisherman don't have the strength or equipment to muscle in a large bluefin.

Most of the commercial harvest of bluefin is done by Japan for sushi.

juaninsac

02/15/2007, 01:14 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249518#post9249518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
That's not sportfishing. That's commercial fishing. Most sport fisherman practice catch & release these days. Most sport fisherman don't have the strength or equipment to muscle in a large bluefin.

Most of the commercial harvest of bluefin is done by Japan for sushi.

You're absolutely right.

I didn't mean to imply that sportfishing was inherently bad. For instance, line caught salmon from certain areas (like AK) is sustainable and more environmentally sound than farm raised salmon.

When I said...
"The silly thing is that sportfishing need to be stopped for other reasons."

I really should have clarified...
"The silly thing is that sportfishing may have needed to be stopped there in England for other reasons."

juaninsac

02/15/2007, 01:19 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249518#post9249518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tacocat
[B]...[B]

How's your lineatus wrasse doing by the way? :D

bkiba

02/15/2007, 01:29 PM

http://static.flickr.com/63/171460457_a6df7357d4_b.jpg

but you gotta admit this is pretty cool, a machine that shucks the lobster this well!

GreshamH

02/15/2007, 03:00 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249635#post9249635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juaninsac
You're absolutely right.

I didn't mean to imply that sportfishing was inherently bad. For instance, line caught salmon from certain areas (like AK) is sustainable and more environmentally sound than farm raised salmon.

When I said...
"The silly thing is that sportfishing need to be stopped for other reasons."

I really should have clarified...
"The silly thing is that sportfishing may have needed to be stopped there in England for other reasons."

What, there's a shortage of trout in England? Funny, they've been stocking them for years. PETA had NO issue what the fish populations in regards to this issue, and that issue is not a valid on in regards to freshwater sportfishing. The seas area very rough in Enland, not many people do marine sportfishing ;)

tacocat

02/15/2007, 03:15 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9250547#post9250547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
What, there's a shortage of trout in England? Funny, they've been stocking them for years. PETA had NO issue what the fish populations in regards to this issue, and that issue is not a valid on in regards to freshwater sportfishing. The seas area very rough in Enland, not many people do marine sportfishing ;)

Even a ferry around the UK is a risky proposition. Trout fishing is like golf in England. The only thing there is a shortage of is public fishable water out there. Many of the good streams in England are owned by private citizens and clubs.

Getting up in the morning is a pain, but I still have to do it. :D

Lineatus? Me? Nope, no fairy wrasses. I have a blue jaw trigger that is capable of FTL travel. It spooks certain fish out when he suddenly appears next to them, so no jumpy fish for me.