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Blackacid
02/17/2007, 09:58 AM
I'm trying to avoid adding a lot of powerheads to my tank. The idea I'm thinking of is splitting the return PVC and running a line across the bottom of the tank with two additional vertical pvc lines coming up that I can place y-splitters on. I'm thinking that I would power this with something like a Mag12. Would this work; or would I be wasting my time? I'm thinking that most of the pvc would be hidden by the live rock.

quick sketch of idea:
http://www.robhough.com/cpg149/albums/userpics/10001/75-flow.jpg

One end would obviously be for the return line.

shag26272
02/17/2007, 10:22 AM
closed loop is what its called, there are many threads about it, you could also add an oceans motions wavemaker on it to simulate waves, I would check into the panworld or dart pumps, how big is your tank?

http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/?osCsid=462d132cfbc8692b54e2b111680898c7

Blackacid
02/17/2007, 10:32 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9265342#post9265342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shag26272
closed loop is what its called, there are many threads about it, you could also add an oceans motions wavemaker on it to simulate waves, I would check into the panworld or dart pumps, how big is your tank?

http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/?osCsid=462d132cfbc8692b54e2b111680898c7

a 75g. I will check on the closed loop thingie.

L and L
02/17/2007, 10:58 AM
Where is the return pvc pipe that you're talking about splitting coming from? The sump?

Please describe your tank setup.

Blackacid
02/17/2007, 11:00 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9265543#post9265543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by L and L
Where is the return pvc pipe that you're talking about splitting coming from? The sump?

Please describe your tank setup.

Yes, it would be coming from the sump.

L and L
02/17/2007, 11:13 AM
Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding Shag, but what you are suggesting doing is not a closed loop. Maybe Shag is saying that you look into to it to add... which I agree.

So, your 75g tank has how many overflow weirs? size sump? return pump? any other plumbing?

Give a brief description of your tank.

Blackacid
02/17/2007, 12:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9265623#post9265623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by L and L
Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding Shag, but what you are suggesting doing is not a closed loop. Maybe Shag is saying that you look into to it to add... which I agree.

So, your 75g tank has how many overflow weirs? size sump? return pump? any other plumbing?

Give a brief description of your tank.

The tank is not set up yet. I'm trying to figure out how I want to do that now. What I have is a Perfecto 75 with a corner over-flo. That has a single stand pipe, and a return hole drilled.

I am uncertain as to the sizes of the plumbing. The setup guide doesn't mention that and I don't have a tape measure handy to be certain. I would guess the return to be 1/2" - 3/4" and the drain to be closer to 1" - 1.5"

I am planning to use a 20g (long) sump and a Euroreef RS80 for the skimmer. The pump I'm looking at is the Mag12.

I don't know what the connections from the corner-flo to the sump will be. What would be the better option? PVC, or tubing? I know that I'm going to want/need ball valves on both the return and drain pipes. I'm not not sure what I should be using after that.


Did that give you the information you were after?

Blackacid
02/17/2007, 01:10 PM
A slightly better version of my drawing. Maybe it will show what I'm trying to do a bit better than I can put in words.

http://www.robhough.com/cpg149/albums/userpics/10001/75-flow2.jpg

kau_cinta_ku
02/17/2007, 01:20 PM
only prob. i see with what your wanting to do is if your pump fails the water is gonna drop all the way down to your lowest outlet which looks way low.

i agree a closed loop is what you will want to do.

Blackacid
02/17/2007, 01:25 PM
Could I add a check valve on the return side to prevent that?

L and L
02/17/2007, 01:30 PM
Here's my plumbing and general system.
Changes that I haven't made to this GIF:
1. Quiet One sump pump failed. Huge crack in the
case. Luckily the water was contained.
2. Moved the powerhead that pumps to the fuge
in the main tank.
3. RO/DI dripper was replaced with a LiterMeter III.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/o/loguell/Saltwater/100gRR/Layne'sPlumbing100gRR.gif

kau_cinta_ku
02/17/2007, 01:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9266341#post9266341 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Blackacid
Could I add a check valve on the return side to prevent that?

you could but it is still not 100% effective as they also can break down. and always seem to break down when you least expect it

L and L
02/17/2007, 01:42 PM
Although I do have a check valve, I would not rely on it. I just stuck it in there to see how it behaves. As stated above, the reverse siphon will drain down your tank to that lowest point.

Plus, I really don't see those extra nozzles really working as your sump pump pumps (say that 3 times fast).

Also, in your sump pump area (also called your evaporation chamber)... as your water evaporates... it will cut off saltwater to your fuge. You can switch the fuge and evap chamber or drill holes in your fuge baffle to allow saltwater to flow to your fuge.

L and L
02/17/2007, 01:52 PM
I would get your tank drilled for a closed loop. Drill two holes in the back glass. Locate them so you can do reach them as the strainers will clog up with stuff ever-now-and-then. Having two suction holes will also reduce the suction compared to one. We don't want slow fish, snails, anemones, etc etc getting stuck there or getting sucked in.

The other option your have is not drill your tank and hang over the back of your tank the intakes, run it down to your pump and run the returns back over the back of your tank again.

L and L
02/17/2007, 02:02 PM
I'd be guessing.. but, I would think that you have a 1" drain and 3/4" return.

Also, the pvc vs vinyl tubing is a "taste" preference. I like the vinyl tubing for the ease at joining it and bending it into your sump.

And btw, that picture and description (especially the picture) makes it SO much easier to help out. Thx for making that.

Blackacid
02/18/2007, 02:20 PM
Thanks for all the info. I setting up the tank today just to make sure it will hold water, and test the pump. I'm taking my time with this as best I can. It's hard though... I'm pretty bad about being impulsive. :)

zoomfish1
02/18/2007, 02:50 PM
Check this for a closed loop system. I just completed it for my 75g Perfecto:

http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

AZDesertRat
02/18/2007, 02:50 PM
Keep the returns just below the surface of the water or when you lose power you will drain the main tank back to the sump and flood. Check valves fail and siphon break holes get plugged and need maintenance which we never find the time to do. You want a tank that is as maintenance free as possible so proper returns are the way to go. Always maintain enough room in the sump to contain a worst case backflow and you will never have to worry about a flood.

L and L
02/18/2007, 06:59 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9273596#post9273596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Keep the returns just below the surface of the water or when you lose power you will drain the main tank back to the sump and flood. Check valves fail and siphon break holes get plugged and need maintenance which we never find the time to do. You want a tank that is as maintenance free as possible so proper returns are the way to go. Always maintain enough room in the sump to contain a worst case backflow and you will never have to worry about a flood.

Excellent info. The only thing I can add is to check your system by shutting off the power and see what happens.

And speaking of power outage, I have a penn plax battery powered air pump. If the power goes out, the pump turns on. For $15, it's a small price to pay to keep your tank going if the power goes out.

http://www.petco.com/Shop/petco_Product_R_9201_PC_productlist_Nav_215_N_24+4937_sku_144100_familyID_7400.aspx

Blackacid
02/23/2007, 01:05 PM
Click image to enlarge. This is the plan I'm aiming for now. I'd really like to focus mainly on the display tank though. I'm planning on drilling 3 additional holes in the bottom of the tank. 1 will be the intake for the close loop, and the other two will be the returns. My primary return from the sump will be aimed up at the water so it's function will be mostly for surface agitation rather than primary flow.

Before I have this drilled, any suggestions? I'm using an OceanRunner 3500 on this system.

http://www.robhough.com/cpg149/albums/userpics/10001/normal_sump.jpg (http://www.robhough.com/cpg149/albums/userpics/10001/sump.jpg)

L and L
02/23/2007, 01:26 PM
The Oceanrunner 3500 is the closed loop pump? What's your return pump/flow?

I wouldn't worry about drilling return holes for the closed loop. But, that your choice and preference. I just hung the pvc/nozzles over the back of the tank.

Depending of the flow (or suction in the intake), you might want to have two intakes for the closed loop. You wouldn't want snails/anemones/slugs/cucs..etc or slow moving fish to get stuck in the intake strainer. Of course this depends on how you setup the intake(closed loop).

Also, the water level in the skimmer chamber will the same height as the fuge chamber.

Blackacid
02/23/2007, 01:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9317029#post9317029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by L and L
The Oceanrunner 3500 is the closed loop pump? What's your return pump/flow?

I wouldn't worry about drilling return holes for the closed loop. But, that your choice and preference. I just hung the pvc/nozzles over the back of the tank.

Depending of the flow (or suction in the intake), you might want to have two intakes for the closed loop. You wouldn't want snails/anemones/slugs/cucs..etc or slow moving fish to get stuck in the intake strainer. Of course this depends on how you setup the intake(closed loop).

Also, the water level in the skimmer chamber will the same height as the fuge chamber.

Yeah I was actually planning on drilling holes along the top half of the intake of the loop and putting a cap on the top. The return pump will be a Mag12 to start with.

AZDesertRat
02/23/2007, 01:43 PM
I had my tank drilled for 5 1" bulkheads. 2 are in the offset center overflow for the overflow and return. 3 are in the back, one about dead center and half way up to feed the closed loop and one each in the upper back corners for the closed loop returns. The loop is fed by a OceanRunner 3500 through a Oceans Motions Squirt 2 way and the retyrn pump is also a OR 3500.
Holes in the bottom not enclosed by an overflow can be problematic in that you have to completely drain the tank if you have a leaking bulkhead or plumbing. By being in the upper back I would only have to drain down 2 to 3" to expose the bulkheads and no more than half way if I ever had to replace the closed loop suction bulkhead.
That plus the fact I have very little plumbing visible insdie the tank, only a black suction strainer hid behind the rock work and a short piece of black LocLine in each corner.

Blackacid
02/24/2007, 10:58 AM
Well I think I'm going to defer to the experienced here and drill the back of the tank, as opposed to the bottom. Thanks for the help.

L and L
03/01/2007, 07:00 PM
I got your PM BA, did you understand what I was talking about?

returnofsid
03/02/2007, 12:01 AM
Keep in mind that usually you cannot drill the bottom of tanks as they are tempered. Also, some tanks are made of ALL tempered glass and cannot be drilled at all. Check with the manufacturer to find out about yours. Unless of course it's acrylic and then ignore everything I just said...lol.