Weird pale spots on clams mantle

[zuzecawi]

Clam looks happy otherwise, but in places has weird colorless spots on its mantle. Not really colorless, but pale white/fleshy colored. I can't get a picture yet, the angle is bad, I'll try tomorrow to get one when the light is on. I swear, the spots are growing, but the rest of the clam looks great, no pinched mantle, excellent color, etc. It's just that there are a few spots that look almost rubbed thin. Very bizarre. I believe this is a crocea clam. There's no shading over the spots either, an they're kinda square shaped.

Any clues? I know, pics will help. I'll try to post them tomorrow.

[a4twenty]

what type of light do you have?

where in the tank do you keep the clam?

how deep is the tank?

[mc-cro]

I may have had a similiar thing happen with my Derasa.

the thin spots actually became holes. It had 2 on the top of his mantle, and 1 down just below his intake siphon where the mantle actually comes together.

I thought at first my tang had been taking bites, but they really didnt look like a bite, they were very clean round holes. If you looked up through the mantle towards the light, you could see alot of "thin" spots.

they have since all healed, I think it was a combination of too many phosphates, and old lighting (14kxm). but I am really not sure, it could be something else completely.

[zuzecawi]

MH light, this clam is fairly new so it is still at bottom of tank, I slowly bring them towards their final spots over a period of a few months, same as any corals I add. About 18" down after the sandbed. Mounted to a piece of rock, I move the rock with the clam. The clam was in a more clear area and moved itself and its chosen rock to a nice wedge between a couple larger rocks. Typical clam behavior. I've been intending to have already moved it higher, but it was apparently happy where it was, and real estate in the tank comes at a premium. I recently got rid of a bunch of soft corals and currently have a good location for the clam to move to, but I'm not sure I want it close to my other crocea in case this patchiness is something that can spread from proximity. It apparently isn't spreading right now, because my other clam is fine, and this one has had the same spots since purchase. I'm not sure if the spots are growing or if it's just the clam... it has grown visibly.
Water params:
1.026 salinity
8.0 ph
10 dkh
440 Ca
1260 Mg
>1 nitrates (test kit is sucky and doesn't read well)
>2 phosphates
0 nitrites
0 ammonia

Tank is very mature, 3 yrs strong and growing in CURRENT set-up. Plenty of microfauna and flora. I think I'm going to start dosing phyto again, I stopped when I moved over into the SPS.

I'm actually not sure that this is something wrong with the clam... but I'd rather find out now than find it a stinky mess.

Here's a pic:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/zuzecawi/mantle.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k91/zuzecawi/clampeeledmantle.jpg

[a4twenty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9280252#post9280252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zuzecawi

>2 phosphates

is this a typo ?

[zuzecawi]

Well, it's certainly not old lights causing this problem. Not in my tank, anyways. I change out my bulbs every six months. And I do 15% water changes every week. I've got enough phosphates in the system to keep my slight algae bloom, which I keep for the grazing pleasures of my mandarin and my blenny. But it's certainly not enough to retard the growth of my stonies!!!
For what its worth, I do skim, and I use GAC. No other reactors. With the frequent water changes I really don't dose much, occasionally I add calcium and magnesium and iodine and strontium, but I mean it when I say occasionally. Maybe four times a year.

[zuzecawi]

Hah! Yes, it is. I meant less than .2
Which is a rough guess... my phos kit is just as lovely as the nitrates kit.

[zuzecawi]

Ahhh... so we have comments about my typing and only ONE about the clam? Well, thank you to mr-cro as it seems you're the only one with any input on the CLAM here.

[mc-cro]

I am by no means an expert with clams, but my gut is questioning 2 things: both related to the clam "starving"

1)lights-what type did you say your running, Crocea's need lots of light, this thread may be helpful http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1035826 is it possible that its not getting enough light?

2)phyto- you said you havent fed phyto in a long time- according to this thread, they need to eat. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70806

So, if its not getting great lighting, and its not getting food, maybe its starting to breakdown its own tissue for food? all this is just a guess, but thats exactly what my clam looked liked before the thin spots actually became holes.

[a4twenty]

i actually wasn't commenting about your typing, i was asking if you really had phosphates greater than 2. which would be a very bad thing :eek2:


from what i see in the pictures your clam is hyper extending. this is a sign that your clam is not getting enough light and he is reaching for more. could you be more specific about your lights? wattage? , how many? color? age?

if you haven't been using phyto for a while now would be a good time to start again. you should also consider moving the clam up higher in the tank

HTH

[Sk8r]

Could also be a salt burn, if salt creep has fallen in.

[zuzecawi]

The lighting is three 250's. 18K. One month old bulbs. I'll try raising the clam some today.

Like I said above, I've got a crappy phosphate test kit, it reads a faint color that could be anything under .2 and if I'm not wrong, it only tests for one kind of phosphate anyways. There is a steady slight algae bloom, when it fades I feed more, I choose to keep it for my blenny and for the copepods the mandarin eats. It hasn't retarded my stony coral growth enough for me to notice, as frags have a noticeably quicker growth rate in my tank than in those of friends. I use RO/DI water on my weekly water changes...
I ordered some new phyto cultures, I'll get my jugs ohh green going again.

Salt creep.... That can cause thinness? Makes sense, but the clam has had these spots since purchase.

Sorry about the bad temper, I'm sick and feeling extra prickly today.

AND THANK YOU FOR THE INPUT!!!

[mbbuna]

it loss of zoox, aka bleaching.

[a4twenty]

those higher k bulbs don't penetrate as deep as lower k bulbs. the usable light is greatly diminished by the time it reaches the bottom of the tank. moving the clam up will help and maybe in the future try some lower k bulbs. ( they last longer too )

i would also consider buying some ready to use phyto. getting cultures going will be great in the future but right now your clam would really benefit from some phyto.

[Ventralis321]

Hey i have the same problem with my croceas. I was trying to get some answers too. I thought maybe it was lighting too. I run 440w of VHO. <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d117/C_Cobb/clam.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[Ventralis321]

I also have it on my Squamosa alittle. It starts off like little cracks in the color and if it gets worse it looks like the pic above. I hope its a lighting thing and not a bacteria or protozoan or pathogen of some kind. I thought it might be spreading.

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9292117#post9292117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ventralis321
I also have it on my Squamosa alittle. It starts off like little cracks in the color and if it gets worse it looks like the pic above. I hope its a lighting thing and not a bacteria or protozoan or pathogen of some kind. I thought it might be spreading.

slowly move your clams closer to the light

[Ventralis321]

so you think it is lighting and not a protozoan or bacteria?

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9292516#post9292516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ventralis321
so you think it is lighting and not a protozoan or bacteria?

yes, lighting

[zuzecawi]

hmmm... well, brought the clam up about six inches, I think I'll keep it there another week or so to see what happens and give it some acclimation time.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one with this question, and that there are a few people who have a clue what it is. The strangest thing, I was looking at the pale spots and I can still see threads of green and blue through them. Like the veins of color are still there, it's just the blue that is gone.
For some reason I thought the zooxanthelle were what gave the clam those streaks of color and that the blue was the color of the clam itself. Are all of the pigmentations of the clam then caused by zooxanthelle?

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9301770#post9301770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zuzecawi
Are all of the pigmentations of the clam then caused by zooxanthelle?

no, the zoox are brown, the clam is what produces the bright pigments. when the clam isnt getting enough light it drops its bright pigments to allow more light to the zoox. if there still isnt enough light for the zoox to reproduce faster then the clam is eating them then they slowly reduce in numbers and the mantle gets lighter(fades)

[REDDAWG43]

I have 2 MH 250W SE 14K'S on a 46g bowfront tank.
My clam was at the top on the LR and it started to get the same bleachy spots. so I moved my clam to the bottom of the tank and now the sopt are gaining color again.

[zuzecawi]

Well, it's stopped hyper extending since I moved it up, so I think you all are right, it must be light deficiency. I started feeding phyto today, we'll see how that works in the future here.

[Aquagoblin]

Interesting thread.

I have the same problem with my crocea. It's 3 inches from the surface and the 15K mh (2 @ 250w) heat the water which is what the clams like. I dose DT's Phyto every couple of days.

I'm beginning to wonder if it has something to do with using Phosban and activated carbon.

I keep my alk at 11dkh and calcium at 440ppm with a weekly, 10 percent water change with quality salt to maintain mineral levels which may be depleted by skimming.

[zuzecawi]

Well, my garage has now had a shelf rededicated to my ghetto cuture station of rotifers and phyto. So far the only difference I can tell is that my tank is having a new bloom of diatoms. Which doesn't particularly bother me, I'm doing water change tonight anyways.