high nitrates

[xxseawolf]

im starting to get high levels of nitrates in my 55g tank. i have a maroon clown, pearlescale butterfly, coral beauty angel, lyretail anthias, scooter blenny, and a small purple tang. i also have a few small pieces of coral, 2 anemones, about 75bs. of live rock, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 coral bandit shrimp, and 2 serpent stars. is this too much for my tank or what can i do to get levels down? i just did a 20g water change and i will do 20g change a week for the next month. will this be enough or should i move some fish into my 30g FOWLR hex tank?any help would be appreciated. thanks

[Amphiprion]

That is a fairly high load (and the tank will eventually be too small for the tang). How high is high in your case? Most of your fish are quite tolerant of higher levels, though that may not be the optimal situation. Water changes will help briefly, but the nitrate levels tend to rebound shortly afterward. You might want to consider adding a refugium as a long term solution.

[xxseawolf]

high to me is over 20 and im between 40-80. not very comfortable with taht. as for the tang by the time it gets too big i will have a 150G or bigger tank. i have thought about a refugium but was looking for any other avenue. thanks for your response.

[Amphiprion]

There really is no other more effective long term approach than one of those denitrators, which can be expensive to keep up and maintain and can be finicky. Personally, I have never used one, so if someone can chime in that has experience with denitrators, that could give you more info.

[xxseawolf]

amphiprion, thank you for your response. its ashame that you are one of the only ones that is willing to respond and help someone with as little experience as i have. i will look into a refugium or some other way of making this work. i was givin this site for a way of getting answers but it seems like if you dont have alot of experience people look down on you and dont want to help. there are a few exceptions(like yourself). i was trying to save time, money, and a little suffering. so thanks again.

[Amphiprion]

No problem. I don't think it was because people didn't want to reply. Sometimes it just takes time--usually someone will answer eventually. If they don't, start another thread and keep asking or being persistent with this one.

[xxseawolf]

trust me i have. different topics. i have asked(what i thought were ligit questions but possibly anoying ones) and it seems like there would be only 1 or fewer that would help. but thanks again. i am a good learner and if i have to, i will learn the hard way(unfortunately at my fishes expense).

[celano]

That bio load does seem a bit high. 6 fish, 2 nems, "some" corals and shrimp. How old is your tank and what kinda skimmer are you using?
FWIW water changes wont help lower your nitrates all that much
they will just bounce right back. If you want to keep all those fish and you have good skimmer its time to think about settin up a fuge.

[sunfish11]

You could also try a Remote Deep Sand Bed.

[jda]

What type of skimmer do you have? If you don't have a decent skimmer, then get one. If you have a good skimmer, then you might consider using sugar as an additive to remove nutrient from your tank. There are pros and cons here, but it is very effective in a FOWLR with a good skimmer. Without a good skimmer, it doesn't help.

I can probably find some sugar links if you are interested, but need to know what kind of skimmer you have.

[SgJsg35]

Have you actually used the suger method? How much did it bring down the nitrates? Ive read the threads but am still a skeptic. Would like to hear a personal exprience. My nitrates are a bit high also, cant seem to keep them below 30 for very long.

[shibumi]

I have high nitrates too and I have been doing water changes but it is not helping.

I have a 90g with 120LR
2 clownfish, an pacific blue tang, naso tang, vlamingii tang, sailfin, a dragon goby and 2 green chromis.

Several corals mostly softies.

I have a skimmer for a 120g

Any idea?

Thanks

[xxseawolf]

i have a skilter250 which is rated for larger than my 55G tank. i havent done a water change for 4 months(until 3 days ago). i plan to do one(15G change for a 55G tank) every week for the next month. i am debating converting my sump into a fuge. i hear that should help with the nitrates. possibly gonna try that this weekend. i only have 2 inches of sand in my tank and i wish i would have gone 4-5 inches. should i yank my rock out, lay more sand or should i just add sand around the rock, or is 2 inches enough? thanks for any help.

[xxseawolf]

celano, my tank is close to 8 months old.

[Amphiprion]

The only thing that worries me about the sugar method in a FOWLR is the potential to significantly drop oxygen levels due to very high bacterial growth. In a reef aquarium with lots of photosynthesis, this is usually less of a problem, but obviously can still be an issue.

[shibumi]

So how does the sugar method work?
Has anybody tried it?

and seawolf I believe is better if you just add sand around. But I heard that is not so good idea to have a deep sand bed ... mine is between 2 and 3. I dont really know, my dragon gobby keep moving my sand around.

[IPowderBlueTang]

Here's the thread on Nitrate reduction with sugar!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=898931

I also been using sugar to drop my nitrates and it is working, my nitrates was past 80 and is down to 20!

[jdircksen]

PB Tang - how long have you been dosing sugar and in what quantities?

I put in 1/2 tsp 2 days ago and 1/2 tsp yesterday and haven't seen any change.

[jda]

It can take months for the sugar to completely work. It doesn't work overnight. It took me a bit over 6 months to take my 210G FOWLR from about 40 to zero - and it has been at zero ever since. Those who claim that it works in a few weeks probably have minor Nitrate problems where most of the nitrate was in the water column.

If you have a cruddy skimmer, then you won't notice as fast of a change.

Yes, sugar can depelte oxygen as the bacteria grows. Water movement/oxygenation is as important as ever - which is another reason that a good skimmer is so important. You can always add some extra powerheads if you feel that oxygen is an issue. The cool thing is that the water will get cloudy if a bacterial bloom happens too fast. You can use this as a gauge to tell you when you have added too much.

A skilter is not a good skimmer. I would not use it on a 10G tank - I don't care what it is rated for. You might consider a better skimmer, although if you need a HOB skimmer, your options will be limited. It should still work if you use sugar, just not as good as it could work.

FWIW - I feel that the bacteria skims better after 7-10 days. Perhaps this is when the first grown bacteria begins to die and you are skimming dead bacteria as well as the live.

Here is my Recirc ASM G4X with a days worth of skimmate:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v701/jdadams12/IMG_2114.jpg

[jda]

Oh, here (http://www.fishheads.org/wiki/index.php/Sugar) is a wiki page on a local board which explains sugar in a paragraph or two. I apologize if you have to log in to read it. Keep in mind that it is a wiki page and not a science book.

[Monkeyfish]

Sugar works well for reducing nitrates if done properly. I currently add half a teaspoon a day to an overstocked 75g FOWLR and it dropped the nitrates from 90 to 20 in 8 weeks.

Like everything else in this hobby - go slow. If you add too much sugar too fast you'll get a bacterial bloom and reduce O2 levels. Also, if you decide to stop adding the sugar - do NOT do so all at once. Sudden cessation can lead to starving bacteria = dead bacteria = lousy tank water. Gradually reduce the amount and frequency of sugar added to the tank.

You may also want to consider looking at the source of the problem. Too many fish, too much/too many feedings, mediocre (okay, lousy) skimmer, etc. A better skimmer, adding a refugium and/or remote deep sand bed, lower bioload (the tang is eventually going to have to go anyway) and weekly 10% water changes will go a long way towards preventing the problem.

[celano]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9291195#post9291195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
celano, my tank is close to 8 months old.

After doing a quick google search on the skilter250 I'm convinced this is were most of your problem is. I did some quick reading and it sounds like this skimmer just isnt enough for your 55. I have a Seaclown150(wait Seaclone:D) on my 30 gallon. Its rated for 150 gallons but as many people will tell you....it cant even come close to that. Hell it cant even keep up with my 30gallon. A good skimmer is a MUST in this hobby.
If you cant afford a better skimmer try modding yours. I came across This site (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6279/TipsSkilterModification.html) in my search.

Also water changes are a must. Once every 4 months just isnt enough. Doing water changes not only makes the tank look better, but adds back those trace elements that so many of our tank inhabitants rely on. I do a 20% change every 2 weeks on both my tanks with great results, if you cant do this atleast try and do one once a month. You wont regret it.

HTH celano

[xxseawolf]

i have an opportunity on purchasing a coarlife skimmer. is this a good product?

[xravenzx]

My cousin has a set-up like yours with a 55g and he had high nitrates. He picked up a HOB refugium, filled it with live sand, live rock rubble, and chaeto with a 12 hour light. After he started pruning the chaeto away for a bit, his nitrate eventually went down and would hover around 0.

[xxseawolf]

ty xravenzx

[celano]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9309328#post9309328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
i have an opportunity on purchasing a coarlife skimmer. is this a good product?

I cant really comment on the CSS skimmers much as I've never owned one, but I have read that for a low budget skimmer this one works good. It seems to work alot better in sump though not as good if you use it as a HOB unit.
I'de say that if its the most you can afford go for it. Its better than the skilter by far plus there are several threads on the DIY forum about how to do some easy mods and make it perform alot better than OEM.

[Monkeyfish]

I have a CSS 125 on an overstocked 75g FOWLR and it appears to be working quite. I get several cups of dark, stinky skimmate every week. For a "budget" skimmer it's probably the best out there. It did take several weeks to completely break in and fine tune, but now I rarely ever adjust it.

[JNye]

the keeping of algae in a fuge or sump is the best thing you can do for any tank IMO. with this method ALONE people have put together some nice tanks supposedly without the use of a skimmer. i guess its possible though i would be way to scared to try it. regardless it would be my first offensive. also bi-weekly water changes...prevention.
lastly the coralife superskimmer...i have read some really good reviews about it from people who use it...on a different forum, they all are happy with it and loved the price, i guess its affordable...dunno
good luck tho.

[cristhiam]

I agree with the posts, refugiums with cheato, denitrators (I just installed one my self a dyi cost me around $40), DSB or RDSB should help, you could do several water changes to help. and I do recomment the CSS 125 good skimmer for the money.

my weekly skimming :)
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~pinatas/skim.jpg