Sump/refugium

[jdjeff58]

Still researching.....I've been convinced to start a first time tank with a sump. Then I had to go and read something about refugiums. Now my question is: Is refugium something I add to a sump from the beginning...or can it be added later. Do I even want a refugium either now or later?? I think I understand the benefits. But is it a necessary item...either now or later??

Thanks people.

[rustybucket145]

Much better just to start off with one.

http://www.buddyscampfire.com/meshModImages/sump.jpg

[papagimp]

I agree, better to start from the get go, but easily addable later on as well. The pic he done up there for ya is the way I have mine setup...sortof. Mines undrilled, but the basic design ist he same and I've extremely pleased with my results.

I do highly recommend a fuge. If you are going to go through the hassle of setting up a sump, best to make it a fuge, or at least have a fuge compartment. Not to in my opinion, would be a waste of time and effort. A sump helps by adding water volume and keeping alot of bulky equipment out of site, but a fuge does this as well plus so much more.

[rustybucket145]

a fuge does this as well plus so much more
truer words cannot be spoken.

[papagimp]

jdjeff58, my last water test show and confirm, no nitrates in my tank, no phosphates at all, and I heavily over feed on a daily basis. When I changed my fuge to a different unit, within a couple days my tank was algae ridden and it's just now (2 months later) starting to return to it's former glory. The fuge makes a world of difference. And my mandarin is borderline obese!

[jdjeff58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9316104#post9316104 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by papagimp
I agree, better to start from the get go, but easily addable later on as well. The pic he done up there for ya is the way I have mine setup...sortof. Mines undrilled, but the basic design ist he same and I've extremely pleased with my results.

I do highly recommend a fuge. If you are going to go through the hassle of setting up a sump, best to make it a fuge, or at least have a fuge compartment. Not to in my opinion, would be a waste of time and effort. A sump helps by adding water volume and keeping alot of bulky equipment out of site, but a fuge does this as well plus so much more.

Ok....I'm a little confused now....I've seen pics of a sump and a 'fuge' in this forum as separate 'vessels' behind or under the tank.

I THINK I understand the benefits of a fuge. I definitely understand the benefits of the sump. But for what purpose would we combine the two. Isn't the fuge somewhat of a holding tank for wimpy fish as well as a breeding area for friendly algae? Why would we subject those things to such high flow rates in a sump?? I don't know...I'm just asking. I've never seen a sump in operation.

I'm probably missing something...I know. But I've been looking for something written about this subject. So far I've only been able to find things that just define what refugium means.

[rustybucket145]

what purpose would we combine the two

Space is the #1 reason for doing this. As well as cost. It's much cheaper to combine the two... ie, one pump, one set of plumbing...etc... instead of two.

As for the high flow rate I totally disagree with people who have low flow fuges, they talk about how great the low flow is and in the same sentence complain about all the gunk settling at the bottom of the fuge. I have over 750gph going through my 40gal fuge and you can literally see thousands of pods scurrying over EVERYTHING.

The main points of having a fuge are:

Macro algae like chaeto (the most common) is used to absorb and export nutrients that would otherwise be utilized by nusiance algae in the display tank.

DSB- deep sand bed in bottom of fuge in place for it's de-nitrification ability

Rock Rubble & Shells provide great breeding/housing grounds for all types of beneficial pods and worms.

I wouldn't suggest putting any fish in a fuge. The whole point is to provide a non-predatorial zone for all the little 'critters' to grow and raise young. These will provide a steady flow of natural food to your main tank.

Hope this answered some of your questions, ask away if you have more.

[Fast Eddie H]

I have my fuge seperate from my sump, and I only use one mag 950 pump. I have a T-valve that splits the return flow from the pump between my main display and my fuge with a couple of ball valves to control flow. This allowed my to put my skimmer right in the sump, where the fuge would have been.
Of course, this is just one way of doing things.

[jdjeff58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9316257#post9316257 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145


Hope this answered some of your questions, ask away if you have more.

Ok...yes it has....and here is another Q.....Things are coming into focus here....I'm beginning to get my list together. This means that I have absolutely nothing except a saltwater book and an old empty (glass) 29g tall laying around the house. Would it be worth the hassel and/or feasable to construct this combo fuge/sump using the glass 29?....assuming my unpurchased reef ready display is either a 75, 90, 110 (not sure yet) If so, how do I begin to determine all the dimensions of the chambers and holes and whatnot doing it myself? Or is it better in the long run to just go buy the dang thing as a kit?

Oh...and I almost forgot....how much more time/money in maintenance will this sump/fuge impress upon ME. I have to ask.

Thanks again.

[rustybucket145]

kits are a waste of money to me. Your 29gal tank will be absolutely perfect for this situation. Every persons dimension will be slightly different. My suggestion would be to assemble all your equipment and pumps and just lay it out on paper. Draw it before you silicone it. I always draw it and then let it marinate for at least a day. If you will notice on my drawing above the section that says: "this is where evap will show" You will want to be sure to make this chamber hold at least a couple of gallons of water b/c no other place in your system will show evaporated water except this chamber.

You can get the glass baffles cut to size at lowes.. They should be 1 1/2" to 2" apart from each other and the raised baffle should also mirror these dimensions. I would recommend a Mag 7 or 5 for your pump. Online vendors have these for under $60 (marine depot).

Well, kinda got in a ramble there but it should at least get you moving in the right direction.

Also, in my image the pump is located outside of the last chamber. This is NOT necessary, it's much easier to place the pump inside the last chamber. It was done that way on that sump for access reasons.

[rustybucket145]

Oh...and I almost forgot....how much more time/money in maintenance will this sump/fuge impress upon ME. I have to ask.

The maintence is a major plus to a sump/fuge. All your equipment will be located in one central location. Heaters, skimmer...etc. It will cut down on your maintence consideribly. You will however have to pay close attention to keeping the last chamber full so the pump doesn't run dry. There are even auto-top off kits that will take care of this for you though.

[NickBee]

See This:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1047725

I added my fuge as a seperate tank from my sump...

[jdjeff58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9316577#post9316577 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
90gal display
40gal propagation/refugium tank
30gal sump



I really appreciate the responses rusty......I just noticed your sig.

Based on what you told me about this stuff....can you explain your 90, 40, 30 setup? Am I getting hung up on terminology?

[rustybucket145]

Yeah, if you've got the room, the bigger the fuge the better. I had room and I went with a 40gal (90gal display) and never looked back. Not one spot of algae in the main tank, chaeto grows like wildfire and I seemingly can feed as much as I want to and all water quality remains perfect. The fuge added a whole new level of stability to my tank.

[jdjeff58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9316689#post9316689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
Yeah, if you've got the room, the bigger the fuge the better. I had room and I went with a 40gal (90gal display) and never looked back. Not one spot of algae in the main tank, chaeto grows like wildfire and I seemingly can feed as much as I want to and all water quality remains perfect. The fuge added a whole new level of stability to my tank.

I'm sorry to keep hounding you but I want to understand this. Maybe I worded my last post a little weird. What I am trying to understand is: Based on our discussion, I see that you combined your sump and fuge into one tank. If this is true, then what does the 40gal prop/fuge and 30 gal sump mean in your list of equipment (your signature). It looks like you have two separate tanks.

[rustybucket145]

ohhh,,, no, the sump fuge combo pic I posted was a drawing of one I designed and built for a friends tank. Not my system. From your initial post I just figured that was the way you wanted to go.

[rustybucket145]

In my system my fuge is actually a 'display' tank. I actually find myself spending more time looking in the fuge than in my main tank. The little critters are funny to watch.

[jdjeff58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9316929#post9316929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
ohhh,,, no, the sump fuge combo pic I posted was a drawing of one I designed and built for a friends tank. Not my system. From your initial post I just figured that was the way you wanted to go.

Ah ok.....As far as they way I want to go? I think I'm 'going' crazy. :rollface:

Thanks for ALL your help.

Jeff

[luke33]

I built my sump/fuge with two 40g rubbermaid containers. I have the overflow going to my sump, where my skimmer is, then back to the return. I then have my return t-d off one to the fuge and the other to the tank. I have a ball valve on the return and keep about 200-300gph going into my fuge. I also have a maxijet 1200 in the fuge with cheato. My sump and fuge ar connected by a 2" hose and bulkheads. All this for around $30. So a 80g sump fuge for $30, + $40 1350gph return pump, and $70 overflow(modded). I'm pulling 1200gph into my sump. It works great and was easy to build.

[jdjeff58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9317046#post9317046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
I built my sump/fuge with two 40g rubbermaid containers.

Now did you just do this off the top of your head? Or did you have some kind of pre-made plans? I've never done anything like this before. I should know this stuff based on the work that I do. I work with process loops calibrating instruments. I think this is one of the reasons I'm finding this so fascinating.

But how do I determine the proper flowrates, capacities, heights of chambers, pipe size and whatnot. In my job, that stuff is already pre-engineered. I just go in to figure out the problem if there is one.

[jdjeff58]

double post sorry....why won't 'delete' work for me?