Dog Face Puffer Questions

[FishDreamer]

Hello all of you fish and reef keepers out there. My name is FishDreamer and I am 17 years old. I am new to this website. I started the saltwater hobby about four and a half years ago and have enjoyed it so much ever since. I have a 75 gallon and have kept both a show fish and reef tank. All of my salt friends died recently, though, because of a heater malfuction.:( I am recovering from that now, so I am basically starting over. I did have a semi-reef tank, but now that all of my corals and inverts are dead, I am going to convert my tank back into a fish show tank. I want a dog face puffer and was wondering if they have any special needs. I know what to feed them, I was just wanting some tips from some of you fish geeks like me who have had a dog face. Are they shy or bold? Will they readily accept food? Are they as docile and friendly as the Porcupine Puffer? Do they fare well with other fish? I want one really bad because they are awesome! Thanks, alot!

[SaltyMember]

I have a dogface for a little over a year now. So far I would describe this fish as a medium maintenance fish. I say medium because of their need to have shellfish, etc. on a regular basis to help wear down their teeth, and because of the large amount of waste they produce which means you really have to keep up on tank maintenance and water quality. Be careful not to overfeed them because they seem to have an endless appetite.

Other than those issues, they are very personable, outgoing but not overly aggressive. The only occasional aggression I have seen is during feeding time. My puffer tankmates are a foxface and a regal blue tang. They get along really well.
HTH

[FishDreamer]

Thanks alot! Would it be a good idea to introduce a young 1'' to 1 1/2'' dogface as the first fish in the tank after the cycling damsels? I have had two domino and two three-stripe damsels for two weeks and have not lost any of them. I have about seventy-five pounds of live rock in the tank, and I have tested my water which seems very stable. Would it be alright to begin my show tank with the dogface? I plan to add a regal tang, a koran angel, a clown trigger, a fairy or dragon wrasse, and maybe a volitan lionfish. I was thinking that it would be good to introduce the puffer first because of their sensitivities towards the more aggressive fish. Any suggestions, comments?

[ralphie16]

they are not aggressive fish so i think clown trigge will hurt him, regardless of who you introduce first.

plus 75 gallon will be good for hardly any of those fish. i suggest you start your fish list over from scratch and pay attention to min. tank sizes and compatability.

p.s. dont listen to vendor info for that, use published requirements written by some of the top experts in the field..

a good place to begin this process is scott michaels two books called marine fished and reef fishes.

[ralphie16]

plus two weeks is too early for any fish. wait at least 30 days from the time you put in your liverock. AT LEAST.

a little bit of patience know will serve you very well in the future.

no need to hurry anything, the learning process is so much fun and you want to extend that process as long as possible.

[FishDreamer]

Thanks, ralphie16. I guess I need to rethink about what fish I am getting. I am not going to immediately get the dogface, just thinking of it in the future (about two to four weeks). Also, the live rock has been in my tank for nearly two years because I did have a semi-reef tank before it got nuked by my malfuctioning heater. I have a Tidepool II sump system and a protein skimmer with plenty of bio balls. The Tidepool has a massive bio-wheel also. I have used alot of the Kent Marine dosing products to rebalance the the system (pH, calcium levels, essential minerals, ect.). Already, alot of the coralline algae is coming back. From my testing, (which I have done every three days before the incident) I did not have a massive overkill, for I still have some hermit crabs, tubeworms, and snails in the tank.

[tangyreefer05]

They are great fish, awsome personality, i swear they know your face, beg for food. Sometimes can be slow finding food even when it falls by them, they will consistly swim towards you begging for some, just make sure he sees it. They tend to get ICH, so be carefull. I see your fish list would be for something like a 240-300g tank not a 75g, FOWLR tanks really should be large unless you plan on keep one or two fish. In your case a dog face would live in a 75 okay. I would not add more than one other tank mate, 3 at max and im talking damsels or dwarf angel. Not a large trigger or angel, just wont work bud.

If you want a personable fish buy the dogface and only the dogface, Once he is growing, and doing well, maybe buy him a friend that fits well in the tank and will not out grow it! I know the tank can look emtpy sometimes but you cant have all those big fish in it, they are used to the ocean remember and will be stressed.


Good luck! remember to stay small and add wait plenty of time before adding fish. Adding 2 fish at once can be a bad thing sometimes.

[FishDreamer]

I appreciate the tips, you guys! I will take your suggestions seriously. I have considered only getting the dogface with another one of the tankmates. I am planning to remove the damsels from the tank so they won't "fill" up the tank. This may be a silly question, but would anemones be fine along with the puffer? Since I have a Coralife Compact Florescent Bulb strip, I wanted to make use of it? I was looking at the other thread that said puffers will eat corals. Will they eat anemones? Another question, do the dogface puffers change colors as they grow older or do they stay a constant color? I have seen so many different varieties that it is almost hard to choose which color I like the most. I think I want one that has a yellow belly with a grey back, and a white strip on its head. (a good picture of the variety I want is on the Dr. Foster and Smith site under the dogface puffer)

[FishDreamer]

Oh, yes. I forgot to add in the last post, what do you give your dogface if he gets ich? Do you ever even think of giving him a freshwater dip? Or is that totally absurd? Do you give the dogface any sort of vitamin supplement on his food? Something like Selcon or Vita-C by Kent Marine?

[ralphie16]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228

[FishDreamer]

Very helpful thread info, ralphie16.

[Thomas Berk]

dogface are great fish but ich can be a problem. having your tank set up without any fish in it for 4-6 weeks ich will run its life cycle and the tank should be free of the ich. quarentine your puffer for 2-3 weeks if possible before adding him to your tank to make sure he is ich free. oh and my dogface and volitin lion are great buddies, along with a lunar wrasse.

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9362441#post9362441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Thomas Berk
dogface are great fish but ich can be a problem. having your tank set up without any fish in it for 4-6 weeks ich will run its life cycle and the tank should be free of the ich. quarentine your puffer for 2-3 weeks if possible before adding him to your tank to make sure he is ich free. oh and my dogface and volitin lion are great buddies, along with a lunar wrasse.

You have to have the fish in QT LONGER then the life cycle of the parasite, therefore have the fish in QT for 6 weeks, not 2 or 3.

On the other hand there are some fishes that it is a better idea to cut the QT short (gobies for example).

[FishDreamer]

From your apparent suggestions, dogfaces are prone to getting ich. What are your ways of treating a dogface should he get ich. Since you guys have had experience keeping them, I will consider your advice seriously. Would something like Rid-Ich work for a puffer? I have had ich in my tank with a coral beauty angel, but I used the treatment along with a freshwater dip and he survived. I know that some fish are more sensitive to treatments than others (for instance a cowfish), but wanted to make sure. You guys have really helped me! I want to learn all I can about this intriguing fish. Do they require a small or large quarentine tank? (I have a small 10 gallon hexagon quarentine tank with a hang-on filter...) Will this work?

[XtrmCHoPZ]

okay.......first off like others said 75g is too small for a puffer, trigger and large angale. If you get a bigger tank you CAN keep them together. I dont know why people are saying you cant keep puffers with other fish. Ive had just about every type of Arothron puffer, and theyre VERY compatible with other fish, except for other puffers. Sometimes thy dont like eachother and become territorial. I currnetly have a 300g with a large Golden puffer, Panda puffer, annularis, blueface angel, coris wrasse, harlequin tusk, volitans lion and some damsels. A clown trigger WILL NOT kill a puffer, thats just absurd. My clown trigger has NEVER harmed any of my puffers in ANY way. Most fish stay away from confrontations with puffers if theyre smart. Puffers have very strong teeth and they know how to defend themselves.

Treating puffers with ich:

Copper, hyposalinty and freshwater dips will all help. If you do use copper Cupramine by Seachem is THE BEST product to use. I have used it on COUNTLESS puffers with absolutely no problems. Dont worry about that. They also respond well to dips, just make sure you keep an eye on the and maker sure theyre not in the dip for too long. Do not use rid ich on puffers, it contains malachite green which is not good for treating scaleless fish. Cupraminbe is FAR superior.

Dogface puffers are bold and shy.....at the same time. They are very bold when it comes to feeding time, yet they tend to be shy around other large territorial fish. They tend to be passive and generally do not start problems with other fish. They typically will eat ANYTHING. I reccommend krill, shrimp, clams, cockle, mussel, mysis shrimp, pellets, sprirulina enriched foods as well. Most people dont realize lots of puffers eat plant matter in the wild. My 2 puffers gobble up purple seaweed like crazy! A varied diet is ALWAYS better that just on etype of food.

Porcupine puffers actually tend to be MORE aggressive and dominating that soft bellied or Arothron puffers. I would not consider porcs to be docile. Ive know them to eat peices off of live fish, especially clownfish for some reason. I dont know why u might think puffers wont do well with other "aggressive" fish?? WHere did u hear that?!?!

Puffers can and WILL eat anemones, trust me! Theyre not just limited to corals, they will generally pick at anything and everything in the tank. My golden puffer regularly eats chunks of live rock and coraline algae. He spits most of it out, but theres someting on the rock he likes.

In most cases they dont change color as they get bigger. theyre are several color morphs or Arothron nigropunctatus ( dogface puffer) such as the yellow bellied and all black type. There are also plenty of other species that many call dogface puffers. These include the stars and stripes, golden, mappa, stellar, reticulated, blue spot, guineafowl, narrow lined, panda ,immaculate....etc.
Those are all in the genus Arothron, like the common dogface. Although some get HUGE....around 4feet for the stellar!

Running a tank for a month w/o fish wont always kill ich or disrupt its life cycle. Ich is a horrible little organism that is VERY resilient. I had my tank run fallow for almost 3 months with no luck. It came back even stronger! the best way of controlling ich is to quarantine fish EVERY TIME you get a new one.




Please Private message me if you have ANY other questions. I hope my answers were complete and easy to understand. Also the puffer queen is very good and knowledgeable regarding puffers. She is a member on the site, and you can probably find her if u do a search. I am glad to help in any way possible. Talk to later!

[FishDreamer]

Wow, 4 feet! I guess I really DO need to reconsider or improvise my thinking. Thanks for the ich advice XtrmChoPZ. Is live food really better for the dogface or frozen? I have heard suggestions from both sides... I know I said earlier that I knew what to feed the dogface, but just wanted to know what is best. Krill, mussels, and clams are some of the most commen foods. What do you suggest?

[cwschoon]

will copper nuke my live rock?

[Dischirm]

My only thing to add is to make SURE you cover the intakes on your power heads. SO MANY puffers get sucked in and die. i had it happen to myself once. Either the screen piece that comes with the power head, or if you dont have one, cut a piece of filter foam to fit over the opening!

Good luck!

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9369737#post9369737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by XtrmCHoPZ
A clown trigger WILL NOT kill a puffer, thats just absurd. My clown trigger has NEVER harmed any of my puffers in ANY way. Most fish stay away from confrontations with puffers if theyre smart. Puffers have very strong teeth and they know how to defend themselves. I dont know why u might think puffers wont do well with other "aggressive" fish?? WHere did u hear that?!?!

Running a tank for a month w/o fish wont always kill ich or disrupt its life cycle. Ich is a horrible little organism that is VERY resilient. I had my tank run fallow for almost 3 months with no luck. It came back even stronger! the best way of controlling ich is to quarantine fish EVERY TIME you get a new one.


I disagree with you on those two points. I had my panda puffer and porcupine puffer in with a picasso that was less then 2" and the picasso harrassed the panda very much. chased him around and left several bite marks. and picasso triggers are some of the more "peaceful" triggers. I had to remove him from the tank. even though puffers can many times hold there own with aggressive fish, as you can see this is not always the case.

i have seen with my very own eyes many a clown trigger attack its tankmates. it is a very unpredictable fish. they will be model citizens for months on end and then one day snap and go crazy. i am sure many people on this board agree with me and have perosnal experience with clown triggers being downright nasty to its tankmates. its a luck of the draw and if you value your dogface you will not put in a clown trigger because even though they are sweet as juveniles, they turn into terrors quite often.

another thing i disagree with you is your knowledge of ick. if you tank is fallow for at least 8 weeks, the life cycle of ick will not be completed because they have no host. if you left your tank fallow and still had ick then you did something wrong. you may have inadvertently transferred it from another tank. there is NO way you would have ick if your tank was fallow for 3 months. you def messed up somewhere. unless you meant 3 weeks which is a different story. also dont forget that the fish could have had ick during those 3 months and you did not see them with your naked eye and when you put them back in the "clean" tank, it just got reinfected again.

i do agree that every fish you aquire should be quarantined. freshwater dip is also standard operating procedure for almost all fish.

although you point out many good points to the thread originator (for example you gave excellent suggestions for feeding), much of your advice is questionable at best. i would cease giving advice to newcomers until you have a firm handle on accurate information.

[XtrmCHoPZ]

thank you vcery much bvut i am giving advice. i did not any where say that this is true. so you can cease saying i am wrong about everything. i am talking oit of experience from myself and many others.

[XtrmCHoPZ]

What is so wrong about ANY of my ADVICE on ich SIR RALPHIE?!? Please tell me since you know everything. If you read again youd see I said ich " always" be killed. Now if you dont understand that than you need to learn more before you start talking crap on my posts.
I know I shouldnt tell people anything 'cuz Im so dumb and all, but I just cant help it. I have a question though, maybe you could help me? WHy does my goldfish die in my reef tank? He looks so pretty, I dont get it?