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View Full Version : Cant get this cyano to stop!


Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:14 PM
This cyano in my 55 gallon just wont go away. Since i got the tank used and changed the substrate to aragonite about 4 months ago in the last month and a half ive had this cyano. I had high nitrates i think from when my hermits were killing my snails but now i dont have any hermits and ive done like 10 gallons a week syphoning the rocks and aragonite to get the cyano off. Last week i did a 20 gallon change. My nitrates are 10ppm. I dont have a phosphate test kit i shoudl get one. Also my water is ro/di at 0 ppm. and i have a coralife super skimmer 125

chaseracing
03/05/2007, 08:25 PM
Try running a bag of carbon and Phosban. I think the Phospahtes can cause problems with cyano. Carbon has the ability to remove strange things from the water that your standard test kit may not pick up.

Have you tried the Red Slime Remover? Its a powder you add to the tank that seems to work well. It will remove cyano but if there is a problem in the tank....it will come back.

-=E=-

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 08:26 PM
you need to test phosphates, and get nitrates down
what type of flow do you have in your tank? how many PH's? anything blowing on the substrate to keep stuff suspended? what type of lights? how old of bulbs? how much do you feed? how many fish?

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:31 PM
I run carbon or i just started to anout 3 weeks ago. I took off the cannister filter that runs carbon only off last night. The bulbs arent that new about 6 months old. My flow is a seio 1100 gph. Im going to get the magnet mod to get it further down in the tank. Has a small yellow tang a small clown a yellow watchmen goby and a lawnmower blenny. Here are some pics.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/Tony25md/Picture507.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/Tony25md/Picture514-1.jpg

dastratt
03/05/2007, 08:32 PM
Were the nitrates even higher before the WC or are they coming back after the WC? If so why is import exceeding export? I would look at getting nitrates down and definitely check phosphates.

Also only 4 mo after a big change its probably not unexpected so I would get the nitrates and phosphates down for a couple of months and do a couple more big WC.

Are Alk (KH) and Ca levels okay? Watch out for a low alk

dastratt
03/05/2007, 08:34 PM
Just saw the photos. I bet you need more flow down low.

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 08:36 PM
I would say add a PH down low too

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 08:38 PM
it is bubbling up and getting stringy, which means it's dieing off, just keep sucking it out with every water change, and don't over feed

A refugium would be lovely too:) and maybe a black background so you don't have to see your skimmer;)

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:38 PM
Also the nitrates before the water changes was 40-80 on ap test kit.

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 08:40 PM
ouch

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:40 PM
I cant add a refug on this tank. I cant drill the tank because its all tempered glass. Sure wish i could. Also i think i do need more flow in the middle so im going to order a magnett for my seio 1100

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 08:42 PM
you could get a overflow to a fuge
or get a hangon CPR fuge

the macro growing in my fuge works wonders
I still had to have the right conditions to beat cyano, but was alot easier on my fuge tank than my other non-fuger

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:42 PM
As far as the background goes i was hopeing that it would be cover in coraline eventualy so i wouldent need a background :)

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9404269#post9404269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RedEyeElf
you could get a overflow to a fuge
or get a hangon CPR fuge

the macro growing in my fuge works wonders
I still had to have the right conditions to beat cyano, but was alot easier on my fuge tank than my other non-fuger
My tank is on the top floor in my bedroom i would be too scared to have the hob overflow loose syphon and drain all over my floor. Also in my stand it is the stand from walmart and has a divider in the center let me go take a pic.

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 08:47 PM
the hangon CPR fuges don't use a overflow, they are powered by a PH and overflow back into your tank

not very large, but I'm gonna build/buy one and try it out soon

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:54 PM
Also i have thought a about converting a aquaclear 110 to a hob fuge. I have one sitting around.

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:55 PM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/Tony25md/Picture535.jpg

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:58 PM
I know i need more of a cleanup crew. I have 40 nassarius snails before i got the hermits but they killed some of them im down to 1 snail but i bought 12 more astrea snails the other day. Im going to buy 30 tomorow to put some in this tank and some in my seahorse tank. I know they dont eat cyano i was talking about the rest of the algea in my tank.

Tony25
03/05/2007, 08:59 PM
How big of a water change how often? I have about 20 gallons thats about a week old with a airstone in my basement.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9404179#post9404179 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dastratt
Were the nitrates even higher before the WC or are they coming back after the WC? If so why is import exceeding export? I would look at getting nitrates down and definitely check phosphates.

Also only 4 mo after a big change its probably not unexpected so I would get the nitrates and phosphates down for a couple of months and do a couple more big WC.

Are Alk (KH) and Ca levels okay? Watch out for a low alk

RedEyeElf
03/05/2007, 09:02 PM
10-15 gallons a week dependant on Nitrates
don't swing your PH or ALK with abunch of water changes close together

mexican red leg hermits eat cyano

LobsterOfJustice
03/05/2007, 09:04 PM
1. Good flow. Nothing should settle on the substrate.
2. Run phosphate removal media such as phosban. I run the media eventhough I have tested my water with a salifert kit and it read 0. The Algae can be using the phosphate as fast as it's being intorduced to your system, and even small amounts of PO4 (too small to register on a kit) can fuel algae and harm corals.
3. Use RODI water. Check the TDS, your filters may need replacing.
4. Rinse all frozen food cubes before feeding.
5. Keep the sand stirred with a cucumber, conch and/or gobies.

Tony25
03/05/2007, 09:12 PM
Will lowering my powerhead with the magnet mod be enough flow? Im going to look for a tiger tail cucumber. What kind of phosphate media can i run in a eheim cannister filter in a media bag? Is it safe? Im scared to run any kind of chemical.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9404511#post9404511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
1. Good flow. Nothing should settle on the substrate.
2. Run phosphate removal media such as phosban. I run the media eventhough I have tested my water with a salifert kit and it read 0. The Algae can be using the phosphate as fast as it's being intorduced to your system, and even small amounts of PO4 (too small to register on a kit) can fuel algae and harm corals.
3. Use RODI water. Check the TDS, your filters may need replacing.
4. Rinse all frozen food cubes before feeding.
5. Keep the sand stirred with a cucumber, conch and/or gobies.

Tony25
03/05/2007, 09:14 PM
I also didnt rinse my frozen food before this happened i just threw the cube in. But now i rinse ( as of about 2 months ago) maybee that also caused this. I need to get rid of this it doesent seem to effect coral but it is a real eye sore and it sucks.

The Saltwater Kid
03/05/2007, 09:49 PM
There are alson snails that eat cyano called Black Turbo Grazers. My LFS had them in once and he put about 50 in a tank that had bad cyano and within 2 days it was almost completely gone. Use chemicals such as Chemi-Clean and Red Slime Remover at your own risk!!! I used Chemi-Clean and followed the directions explicitly and it got rid of my cyano...and killed about 85% of my livestock (corals, fish and inverts) because it bottomed out my Alk. I actually see a little bit of cyano starting to creep back in after 3+ months of cyano-free and i am going to run a media bag with PHOSaR from Warner Marine. This stuff is a phosphate remover that is pelletized, not ground or liquid and it's iron based, not aluminum like others that can harm your corals. I did a DIY mod to my AC70 and turned it into a minifuge but am going to upgrade soon to a CPR AquaFuge HOB refugium as it holds a lot more and works very well. I'm like you, I live in an apartment on the second floor and have a strong fear of HOB siphons losing siphon and flooding over the wood floor and leaking down into the neighbors apartment...the AquaFuge is a simple solution for those of us that can't/won't risk a DIY sump/fuge flood. From the looks of your tank you need more PH's, my friend has a 55 gallon tank and he has 3 Seio 850's and 1 MJ1200 in his tank and you also need A LOT more live rock for your tank (at least from the looks of it in your pic). Good luck!!!

xenon
03/05/2007, 10:44 PM
Just add 1/8th tea spoon of regular white sugar for every 25gallons daily and your problem will be gone in 5-6days.

Your welcome :)

chaseracing
03/06/2007, 09:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9404608#post9404608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tony25
I also didnt rinse my frozen food before this happened i just threw the cube in. But now i rinse ( as of about 2 months ago) maybee that also caused this. I need to get rid of this it doesent seem to effect coral but it is a real eye sore and it sucks.

I wouldn't stress this point to much. I have been throwing in frozen cubes for years. I actually believe that rinsing them off is not a good thing. You could be washing away vitamins and essential oils for the food.

I completely forgot about the lights. That could also be part of your problem. I can always tell when my lights need to be changed due to the algea growth.

-=E=-

chaseracing
03/06/2007, 09:16 AM
The cyano is feeding off of something. Probably Phosphates. Make the phosphates go away and the algea will go away.

I have also found that when my Calcium is high I have very little algea growth. The little bit of algea growth that I do get is quickly eaten up by the snails. (Even the glass. I very rarely have to scrape it)

-=E=-

Frick-n-Frags
03/06/2007, 09:58 AM
maybe I missed it, but is there a skimmer on this system?

this looks like the classic FOWLR nitrate factory setup. You have(maybe) no skimmer to pull PO4 laden organics. You have nitrate factories like the cannister filter to make lots of nitrates. You have no export mechanism beyond partial waterchanges, which alone, mathematically cannot get rid of all the fertilizer. And you have no other photosynthetic organisms to compete with the cyanoslime.

Any killing of the slime will only ensure that it returns when safe, more fearsome than before.

Bottom line: long term, more fertilizer has to go out than comes in, however that happens.

Tony25
03/06/2007, 11:05 AM
I have a super skimmer 125 and the cannister filter when i run it is only to run carbon i run it empty. Also i keep my skimmer clean and i clean the collection cup every 2 days.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9407719#post9407719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Frick-n-Frags
maybe I missed it, but is there a skimmer on this system?

this looks like the classic FOWLR nitrate factory setup. You have(maybe) no skimmer to pull PO4 laden organics. You have nitrate factories like the cannister filter to make lots of nitrates. You have no export mechanism beyond partial waterchanges, which alone, mathematically cannot get rid of all the fertilizer. And you have no other photosynthetic organisms to compete with the cyanoslime.

Any killing of the slime will only ensure that it returns when safe, more fearsome than before.

Bottom line: long term, more fertilizer has to go out than comes in, however that happens.

Frick-n-Frags
03/06/2007, 11:24 AM
OK, this is good to know :)


you might be having a cycling(not specifically a classic ammonia cycling, but more a first year new tank cycling), especially with total sand replacement and those several fish. can you lose the fish for a couple of months to settle the tank down?

Tony25
03/06/2007, 12:54 PM
Not realy because i just put the fish back slowly after 6 weeks of hypo to get rid of ick. So it had 6 weeks empty. Then a fish a week.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9408375#post9408375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Frick-n-Frags
OK, this is good to know :)


you might be having a cycling(not specifically a classic ammonia cycling, but more a first year new tank cycling), especially with total sand replacement and those several fish. can you lose the fish for a couple of months to settle the tank down?

exotic3412
03/06/2007, 01:30 PM
water change is deff the problem

Frick-n-Frags
03/06/2007, 02:12 PM
yeah, really.
You are working an ammonia cycle mentality. ie a fish only tank mentality. If this is the case, turning off all the lights will make the cyano go away.

but you can't do that because of the corals, right?

I am seeing 3 pounds of live rock, 4 fish and a sterile sandbed

and a ton of cyano

6 weeks empty is not long at all.

you have a cyano dominated fishtank.

if that was my tank, I would get the fish out again, siphon as much cyano as I could while siphoning out almost all the water, add some more LR and replace most of the water. then add about 40 snails after removing any hermits. then let the tank grow coralline etc for as long as it takes 3 months, a year whatever until the thing is looking spanky and the corals/coralline are all looking good, then the fish would start coming back in.

you cannot afford the biological load of the fish waste and the fishfood right now, until your biology has settled down in a desireable fashion. Then it can take care of the fish and food.

water changes will only dilute the problem, unless you do a lot of big ones for a while, which isn't going to happen.

Tony25
03/06/2007, 07:55 PM
Should i realy have to goto the extreme of pulling all the fish out? Shouldent i be able to beat it with lowering my flow and adding another 1100 gph power head. Also skimming wet and doing 5-10 gallons a week of water changes?

Jeffp
03/06/2007, 08:35 PM
I've also found that keeping my calcium levels up gets rid of it. I don't know why - but I've seen it on several occasions.

And be patient. I had an incident last summer that caused an outbreak (away on vacation, massive power failure, etc.) and it took about 6 months to clear up.

shellshocked
03/06/2007, 08:57 PM
How often do you feed the fish? Try cutting the amount of food in half or feeding every other day. Yes the fish will be fine. Also I agree with ditching the canister. If you really want to run the cannister run a phosphate remover.

Tony25
03/06/2007, 09:12 PM
I just started with the cannister filter. Tried the carbon idea. I just got done adding 2 bags of carbon. What type of phosohate remover would you use? What is safe? Also would another 1100 gph powerhead be too much flow?

Tony25
03/06/2007, 09:14 PM
Also my feedings are very small and every other day or so. I put nori in for my tang like every other day.