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tailored
03/07/2007, 10:57 AM
How would you Circulate this system?

I've got a 90rr AGA undrilled aquarium with corner overflow sitting about 30'' above an acrylic homemade sump (approx 35 gal) in which I will put a diy Euroreef-ish pvc skimmer and a refugium. I have a single genx pump mak4 (similar to iwake 55 rlt) that produces 1190 gph.

This will be a mixed reef system and will not be sps intensive (I might eventually put a few in).

I'm considering drilling a centrally located hole about 8"-10" from the top of the tank in which I will put a spray bar spanning the back of the tank. I am also thinking about drilling two holes on oposite sides of the tank, also about 8"-10" below the top of the tank in case i decide to later install a closed loop.

1. Would you drill the back for outputs? If so, where on the back glass would you drill ?

2. Or would you drill a centrally located hole and put a spray bar?

3. Would you draw water from the sump only or also from the tank itself?

4. What possible problems do you see arising?
a. if you think that the pump will be drawing more water than what the tank will drain, could i just add a "Tee" and a ball valve to the output of the pump and and pump more water into the sump?

5. If I do cut holes in anticipation of later adding a closed loop system (or otherwise) what would be the best way to cap these off until I am ready to use them, considering the tank will be full of water until such time?

5. Any other considerations?

Thanks guys (and gals)!

andyjd
03/07/2007, 11:11 AM
Here is an idea for you, its my 90g Oceanic, sump return comes back through the rock pillar on the RHS, flow is provided by two vortechs.

If your planning on installing bulkheads for later use, i'd get threaded ones, you can buy threaded plugs for them.

Andy
http://www.two-strokes.com/images/RC/dec06.jpg

rustybucket145
03/07/2007, 11:22 AM
I'm considering drilling a centrally located hole about 8"-10" from the top of the tank in which I will put a spray bar spanning the back of the tank
Wouldn't do this. If for some reason your power goes out all the water above the 8-10 inch hole will reverse siphon back into your sump. Unless you have a HUGE sump this will overlfow onto your floor as well as leave any corals above this hole exposed to air. If you wish to do a closed loop this would be the hole to do it out of.

1. Would you drill the back for outputs? If so, where on the back glass would you drill ?
I assume you are talking about overflows here. If so, yes you should drill the back. They can be located pretty much anywhere as long as they're under the waterline enough to put a 90deg fitting on them and turn them straight up. I would suggest locating them low enough to use a durso type stand on them as this will reduce noise/gurgling

a. if you think that the pump will be drawing more water than what the tank will drain, could i just add a "Tee" and a ball valve to the output of the pump and and pump more water into the sump?
Don't oversize your return pump. Remember this pumps only function is to circulate water through the sump/fuge/skimmer/heater area. It is not necessary at all to have a high flow through the sump. That said, I would never go below say a Mag5 for a return pump for your size tank. But anything larger is really just a waste of flow and money.

5. If I do cut holes in anticipation of later adding a closed loop system (or otherwise) what would be the best way to cap these off until I am ready to use them, considering the tank will be full of water until such time?
Save money by going to a smaller return pump and then go ahead and pick up another pump for the closed loop. For instance if you use a Mag 5 pump for your return that will only cost around $50. You can then spend $70-$100 on a good pump for a closed loop. By going a little smaller on the return pump you are able to put a little more toward a closed loop pump maximizing your $$/flow ratio.

tailored
03/07/2007, 11:42 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9417565#post9417565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
Wouldn't do this. If for some reason your power goes out all the water above the 8-10 inch hole will reverse siphon back into your sump. Unless you have a HUGE sump this will overlfow onto your floor as well as leave any corals above this hole exposed to air. If you wish to do a closed loop this would be the hole to do it out of.


I assume you are talking about overflows here. If so, yes you should drill the back. They can be located pretty much anywhere as long as they're under the waterline enough to put a 90deg fitting on them and turn them straight up. I would suggest locating them low enough to use a durso type stand on them as this will reduce noise/gurgling

Actuallly I meant outputs through which water would be pushed from the Mak4 into the tank.

I already have the corner overflow system that came with the 90g RR AGA in which I will use a durso.

tailored
03/07/2007, 11:43 AM
Also, when plumbing a closed loop what is the recomended procedure for prevention of fish vaccuum from pump input.

tailored
03/07/2007, 11:46 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9417565#post9417565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
Wouldn't do this. If for some reason your power goes out all the water above the 8-10 inch hole will reverse siphon back into your sump. Unless you have a HUGE sump this will overlfow onto your floor as well as leave any corals above this hole exposed to air. If you wish to do a closed loop this would be the hole to do it out of.


I assume you are talking about overflows here. If so, yes you should drill the back. They can be located pretty much anywhere as long as they're under the waterline enough to put a 90deg fitting on them and turn them straight up. I would suggest locating them low enough to use a durso type stand on them as this will reduce noise/gurgling


Don't oversize your return pump. Remember this pumps only function is to circulate water through the sump/fuge/skimmer/heater area. It is not necessary at all to have a high flow through the sump. That said, I would never go below say a Mag5 for a return pump for your size tank. But anything larger is really just a waste of flow and money.


Save money by going to a smaller return pump and then go ahead and pick up another pump for the closed loop. For instance if you use a Mag 5 pump for your return that will only cost around $50. You can then spend $70-$100 on a good pump for a closed loop. By going a little smaller on the return pump you are able to put a little more toward a closed loop pump maximizing your $$/flow ratio.

I already own the Mak4. I was trying to achieve using this as my return and not immediatley implementing a closed loop (CL) system while leaving the option for the CL open for down the road.

rustybucket145
03/07/2007, 12:36 PM
Actuallly I meant outputs through which water would be pushed from the Mak4 into the tank.

Lets get some terminology straight here. When the water comes from your 'return' pump (which is located in the sump) it enters your tank through 'return' lines. When the water leaves your tank it exits through pipes called 'overflows' which lead directly to your sump.

I said:Wouldn't do this. If for some reason your power goes out all the water above the 8-10 inch hole will reverse siphon back into your sump. Unless you have a HUGE sump this will overlfow onto your floor as well as leave any corals above this hole exposed to air. If you wish to do a closed loop this would be the hole to do it out of.

You said:Actuallly I meant outputs through which water would be pushed from the Mak4 into the tank.

That is exactly what I was talking about. If your power should go out all of the water above your 'return' line will flow backward through your 'return' pipe, past your 'return' pump (which is powerless, therefore off) into your sump. This will in turn drain your tank until the water level in your main tank drops below the hole in the glass through which your 'return' line passes.

Did that make any better sense?

Also, I'm not familiar with a Mak4 is it similar to a Mag4? If so that will be fine for your return pump. And yes you can drill holes for a future closed loop, just get threaded bulkheads as stated earlier and an endcap and use teflon tape to seal the endcap threads. You could use this method to seal the bulkheads indefinately.

tailored
03/07/2007, 12:54 PM
Yes, let's do get some terminology straight here.

There is more than one way to have water exit the main display tank. One of which is what you are talking about "overflow" another is to draw the water directly from the tank from the "input" into the pump.

Yes my "output" is what you call a "return" line. I called it something that you and most people on this forum aren't accustomed to "output" because I could not think of the word "return" at the moment and therefore explained what I meant by the term "output".

Also, according to my original question my return pump (which I also explained produces 1190 gallons per hour "gph" and is therefore not equivalent to a mag 4) would not be located "in" the sump but rather adjacent thereto.

Also, when I said this:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9417719#post9417719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tailored
Actuallly I meant outputs through which water would be pushed from the Mak4 into the tank.

I already have the corner overflow system that came with the 90g RR AGA in which I will use a durso.

I was responding (my fault for not isolating the exact passage I was replying to) to the second paragraph that I quoted from you where you assumed (wrongly).

rustybucket145
03/07/2007, 01:00 PM
oh, gotcha. Didn't mean anything inflamatory by the terminology thing, just wanted to be sure we were on the same page.

1190 gph is way too much flow for your return pump. You should use that for your closed loop and purchase a 400-500gph pump for the return pump. I made the mistake of going with a higher flow pump through my sump and had to highly modify my sump to keep micro-bubbles out of my main display. I doubt that your overflow will be able to handle 1190 gph anyways.

If you have the RR tank I think you will have two pipes behind the corner overflow. One of these is for overflow and the smaller of the two is for return. You shouldn't have to drill the tank for the return line, it should already be there for you. But I doubt that either of these pipes will handle 1190 gph.

tailored
03/07/2007, 01:05 PM
That makes sense, thank you. I do not want to run into problems with the microbubbles.

I think what I will do is buy lower powered return pump and use the mak 4 on a closed loop.