BM 200 performance

[Baalz]

I am really having a hard time believing this skimmer is working properly. Every single photos I have seen of these skimmers shows the bubbles flowing over if you remove the collection cup.

Look at mine and tell me what you think.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/IMG_4368.jpg?t=1173528113

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/IMG_4367.jpg?t=1173528275
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/IMG_4365.jpg?t=1173528316

[my2girls]

I have my BM200 coming Monday so I can't tell you specifics on how to fix it. To me, it looks like a pump problem. Not enough air and/or water. Something similar happened to me on my Deltec. Took the pump apart and the air valve was clogged with salt. I know your's is new, but maybe there is debris in the air valve from manufacturing. Hope you get it worked out.

[Oliver P.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9441885#post9441885 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
I am really having a hard time believing this skimmer is working properly. Every single photos I have seen of these skimmers shows the bubbles flowing over if you remove the collection cup.

Look at mine and tell me what you think.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/IMG_4368.jpg?t=1173528113

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/IMG_4367.jpg?t=1173528275
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/IMG_4365.jpg?t=1173528316

Hi,

The waterlevel in the skimmer is defently to low. All you need to do is to raise (appr. 1 inch) the waterlevel.

Normally the position of the T-fitting controls the waterlevel in the skimmer. If you cant raise the waterlevel, please remove your mods on the white T-fitting and see what happend.

From the technical side your skimmer looks good.

regards,
Oliver Pritzel

[Baalz]

This skimmer was in nearly 10" of water until i put it on a stand before these photos. It now sites in 8" of water. I was told I had it to deep by Greg.
Since I took these photos I tore everything back down and found that the air inlet hole was partially clogged. Skimmer water level is about right at the beginning of the riser past the beveled outside.

Oliver I had this skimmer in deeper water before and water level was about same.

[Baalz]

I am still not seeing much of an improvement. After several weeks use I do not get fine bubbles going up the column such as I see with BM 250 users.

What can be done about this?

[skimmy]

exactly how many inches of water is the skimmer in?

i have found that if you run your water level up to the outlet on the tee that the skimmer is not only quiet, but runs better, making the valve optional instead of needed

although from your other posts it sounds like the possiblity exists that your pump is toast, in which case im sure they (ati / reef geek) will replace it for you, it's just a matter of deciding if it is in fact a defective pump.
did you possibly overtrim the impellar?? or is it stock?

[Baalz]

My skimmer has been in 10" and in 7-8" and performed the same in each. New out of the box one of the wire ties was not connected to the impeller but was loose. This skimmer ran a week in that condition.

I hold no hope that this pump will be replaced. The least I am getting in support is a few pieces of mesh material thrown my way that I must install. The mesh must be installed in a precise manner as well. OR I can send my impeller to the west coast and have them do it for me.

My vendor told me that no pump will be replaced.

[palawan]

What!! If your pump is bad then they should replace it on condition that you send them the old one. Who is the vendor that sold you the unit? Do you have a ball valve at the output of your skimmer? If you don't have a tornado underneath your diffuser plate then your pump is not working. I have the same unit but I removed the ball valve and replaced it with a gate valve from OSH. Mine sits in 7" of water with the foam head breaking at mid level of the cup.

[Baalz]

I was told these pumps do not go bad. They either work or don't.
It may be that my mesh wheel is the problem. Its not like I have a choice.

[weege1]

What I dont get is that some BM200 users have the bubble level in the cup neck with the riser at the lowest position.

Others have to add a gate valve to acheive this.

Some are fine with just riser tube at a high level.

There has to be an official answer as to what should be correct?

On mine with the riser at the highest position the bubbles do not reach the neck, with it at the lowest position and removal of the cup you can see it about 1.5 inches from the top of the bodies cone.

Why such a large difference on the same skimmer? Why do some users have to add a ball/gate valve to raise the breaking point when other don't need this at all? I want an official answer as to how it should operate. If it is sold standard without a gate/ball valve then it should not be required to raise you bubble level, if you have to go to that extreme to get it to work then something has to be wrong.

[Oliver P.]

Hi Baalz,

I am very sorry to hear all this.
To find out what it is not correct with your BM, it would be very helpful if you can make a short video of the BM in action. In this way I can see immediately what is wrong. From the pictures I have seen here in RC I am sure that the waterlevel in the skimmer is too low. Have you ever had an overflow or watery skimmate ? As mentioned before, the postion of the T-fitting controls the waterlevel in the Skimmerbody. On the highest position (stopped by the collection cup) you should have a more wet skimmate. Also the bubbles should flow over if you remove the collection cup.

Right now, I can only imagine that you have a pump of the first generation of BM 200, but the skimmerbody (with a lower position of the T-fitting) of the last generation. I dont know why this happend, but please contact Reefgeek again in order to sent you a complete new treadwheel with a bigger diameter. In this way you get much more power and you can see the real potential of a Bubble Master. You only need an impeller (threadwheel) with a bigger diameter.

Thanks,
Oliver

[my2girls]

Oliver- Ed from KMA in San Fran assured me that I have a 2nd gen. skimmer (BM200) with a 2nd gen. threadwheel (with the proper diameter) and the same thing is happening to me.

[weege1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534741#post9534741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Oliver P.
Hi Baalz,

Right now, I can only imagine that you have a pump of the first generation of BM 200, but the skimmerbody (with a lower position of the T-fitting) of the last generation. I dont know why this happend, but please contact Reefgeek again in order to sent you a complete new treadwheel with a bigger diameter. In this way you get much more power and you can see the real potential of a Bubble Master. You only need an impeller (threadwheel) with a bigger diameter.

Thanks,
Oliver

Oliver,

That comment right there has my attention. One thing that all three of the users that have problem have in common is that the pump is melted on the side, see below:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4437.jpg?t=1174429385

Others without without a problem do not have this. Does this mean we jave old gen pumps like Baalz? We all have the same symptoms so it would make sense. Can one measure the threadwheel to detirmine this? Maybe the melted plastic is an indicator itself that we have old gen pumps?

[Baalz]

I measured my threadwheel two weeks ago and it seemed to be the correct size. That is how I discovered that a wire tire was not connected and the pump had ran a week already. It is quite possible my threadwheel is damaged from that.

[Baalz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534741#post9534741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Oliver P.
Hi Baalz,

On the highest position (stopped by the collection cup) you should have a more wet skimmate. Also the bubbles should flow over if you remove the collection cup.
Oliver

My skimmer does not does not produce wet skimmate with the riser at that position. At most it will produce gunk at the top of the riser with very little skimmate in cup. In comparison to my needle wheel skimmer this is pathetic.

[Oliver P.]

We will sent complete new Riser to the US in the next days. With this new Riser you are able to higher the Waterlevel in the skimmer much more.

[Baalz]

I really just want a skimmer that works like I thought it was supposed to. Sadly most the experiences that I saw applaud this product were of the BM 250.

At this point I would gladly pay the difference and upgrade to a BM 250 if thats what it takes to get what I want out of a skimmer.

[weege1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9535669#post9535669 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Oliver P.
We will sent complete new Riser to the US in the next days. With this new Riser you are able to higher the Waterlevel in the skimmer much more.

I really do think this is the solution. In my case I know for sure the pump is pulling the air it should as the reading on my flow meter is in the 18-20 range. Also all BM200 I have seen that work great have a moded Riser or it is forced past the cup bottom. I think it would also make sense to add this new riser to all new BM200s.

[bsk997]

I posted this in the BM forum in the lights & equipment forum but thought it should get some attention here as well.

I'm having the same exact problem you guys are.
I was working with Ed and was thinking that it had to do with the skimmer still breaking in. It's been about 3 wks since I've received my skimmer and I still have to raiser my riser all the way up in order to get any bubbles over the skimmer cup.

I had my skimmer in about 7" of water before and the bubbles were about 2.5" from overflowing the skimmer body itself with the riser all the way down.
I now have in about 9.5" of water and its at about 1" away from overflowing with the riser all the way down.
I now have the riser tube so that the T is hitting the bottom of the skimmer cup. I'm getting some rather large bubbles about 1/3 of the way up and we'll see how it goes from there.

I too feel very frustrated with this skimmer. I did a lot of research on skimmers and thought I was getting a great skimmer thats comparable to a BK but at a fraction of the cost. Had I known I was going to have this many problems, I would have probably gotten a H&S or Deltec. Sigh....
Sorry, just had to let out all my frustrations!

[MGB]

Has ATI or Reef Geek ever explained the "mysterious melting" on the pump housing. I myself noticed that on my BM200 pump. It could be harmless, just thought I'd remind everyone. It seams a little odd, is there a perfectly plausible explanation.

MGB

[mavgi]

I make some test and i will show here some photo , i will also copy this post at the reef geek forum page.

First i want to tell abbout the threadwheel impeller and the SICCE pump .

1 the mesh it's complete different impeller then a needle wheel impeller , in needel wheel impeller what you have it's what you got mean if the pump pull 15 LPM there is no way to get more air or better performance .

with the mesh wheel impeller the result can be changed by the way it's mod if the mesh will be wider little bit mean different of 1-2 mm can make big change and of we add one more layer the result will be different to . this is what we can get in regular impeller and this option can make big different .


2. the SICCE pump are rate about 500GPH with very low watt from test that i make in the past i was able to skim with one pump on the CS250 ER skimmer total high 30" and to pull 20LPM which with a 1600 GPH pump the good new ER wheel impeller was pull max 18LPM and use 60 watt .

i never saw a pump that perform like this little pump and push a lot of air .thi is one of the best pump i have never see .

the problem that all of you have in the BM200 IMO it's just adjusting and the reason i said that it's because what all of you will see in the next photo .

unfortunately i don't have a BM200 to make test and to help the best as i can and to give the correct opinion , i hope i am not wrong and i just want to help you all also i am sure all of you understand that.

as all of you know the BM250 biger then the BM200 and if one pump can perform on BM250 then the pump can perform on the BM200 .

you can see in the first picture my BM250 with one pump :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1987.jpg


you can see on this picture the top of the skimmer how the water splash :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1984.jpg

you can see in this picture how the water level can increase in the cup without problem:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1988.jpg


you can see in this picture how the bubble look in the neck :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1989.jpg

the water level in the sump 9" and i am sure after all of you saw that pictures can understand that the BM200 will perform better with one pump compare to the BM250 . IMO when you will be able to adjust those skimmer with the correct raiser , correct diameter of the mesh the skimmer will perform perfect.

this skimmer perform very well when it's complete break in need to be more patient and i am sure that all the ppl that own this skimmer can tell that after 2 month the result very well , also the mesh mod pull a lot of air and if you want fine bubble you need to put air valve on the air pipe on the skimmer that run with one pump (not on the silencer this good for the 2 pump ) if you do so you will get fine bubble and all this will be better when the skimmer will run more time .

the color of the skimming look more light and this because the acrylic color compare to other it's crystal , but the color can be more dark and even ugly when the skimmer adjust and total break in and you can see here some different color on the cup :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP0533.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP0572.jpg


About ATI i wholdn't worry at all they take care about every problem and from the begining we saw that i hope all with the new raiser will solve this problem and will enjoy from the skimmer if i was have the BM200 i am sure i was able to help more i did all this test and type this post because ppl spend money on skimmer and they believe it will be better then what they have before and i feel all and i cut my skimmer and make this test to show you that this skimmer is great and can perform very well just need to find the correct adjusting and it will .

i hope to see you all hapy soon and see a new photo with great BM200 performance.

[palawan]

I have what I believe is the 1st generation of the BM200. It has the o-ring on the bottom of the collection cup, the silicon tubing that connects the pump to the body has a very tight fit, it came with the big bulky pvc ball valve. I bought mine from Ed of KM associates and he pretested the skimmer and made the necessary adjustments on the meshpad. I've installed the gate valve mod-parts bought from OSH, keeping the foam head at midway of the cup. It's been a month running now and this skimmer does run wet with a brownish color skimmate. I too, have larger bubbles in the neck, but after finding this thread I've just installed a small valve at the air intake, now the bubbles are smaller like the bubbles in the body. I will see if this will get the skimmer to do a dryer skimmate.

[ReefGeek-Greg]

Hi All,

Until midday today I was not aware that several of you were having performance issues with the latest version of BM200. So let me first apologize for our lack of responsiveness to the posts in this forum.

I believe Reef Central is an incredibly valuable resource for hobbyists as well for manufacturers and retailers. I wish that we had the resources to be on Reef Central and other forums for that matter on a regular and even daily basis, but unfortunately at this time we just don’t have the time to do it.

We, of course, want to be available to you all to help fix any and all issues you may have, but we can’t fix problems we don’t know about. So if you ever have any problems with your skimmer or anything else and need immediate assistance the best thing to do is contact us directly either by calling us toll-free at 866-295-9230 or by e-mail at [email protected]


Now to the issues at hand…

First of all, we stand behind all the products we sell and if there is something wrong with the skimmer or the pump, we will gladly exchange it for another one or provide a refund.

But from what I can tell reading this thread tonight I don’t believe we have a batch of defective skimmers or pumps out there. We just need to find a way to get these skimmers working correctly…

Just a quick note about the pumps…
All the pumps sold in the US came from the same batch, so I confident that we don’t have a bad batch of pumps. Also the photos posted a few days ago show cosmetic only defects to the pumps outer housing and should not have any impact on the pumps performance.

Now to the source of the problem, the thread pad…
The thread-wheel design used in the Bubble Master skimmers is very sensitive. As others have previously mentioned even a small 1mm change to the size of the thread pad can have a big impact on the skimmers performance. Even the small inconsistencies in the density of the thread pad material can have an impact of the skimmers performance. That’s the nature of the thread material and thread-wheel design and it does cause some inconsistencies in performance from skimmer to skimmer and from tank to tank. This in combination with other factors like the bio-load of the tank and the water level of the sump can and will cause everybody’s skimmer to perform a little differently.

Because everybody’s tank is different there is unfortunately no one way to run the skimmer and achieve perfect results. For some a thread pad of 44mm is just right, but for other it might be 43mm or 45mm. For some a depth of 6” is just right, but for others a depth of 8” is a better fit. So with this, please keep in mind that what may be good for you may not be good for others and vice versa.

So what’s the solution?
One possible solution is to provide everybody with a little extra thread material, so everybody can make a slightly bigger or slightly thread pad as needed. Of course, I recognize that this is not a very user friendly solution and I know I certainly wouldn’t want to have to mess with a $1 thread pad just to make my $500 skimmer work. This is why ATI introduced skimmers with an adjustable water level outlet. This feature was an improvement over the original models of the skimmers, but it certainly wasn’t the perfect solution. That is why ATI is now introducing a model 160 and model 250 with a built-in gate valve. Hopefully this same feature can be added to future generations of the model 200 too.

But where does that leave everybody with an older model of the skimmer?
We are working on an easy to use, compact gate valve mod that can plugged directly into the output T of a model 200 or model 250 skimmer. This kit will allow the user to more flexibility in raising and lowering the water level inside the skimmer. It will also provide more precision. We hope to have these available very soon. I could also use a few more beta testers, so if you are interested in getting one of the demo units, give me a ring.



… Anyway these are excellent skimmers and with a little work, we should be able to get them all working correctly. If you need any additional assistance, please give us a call tomorrow and we'll be able to assist. Sometimes this makes things much easier and less frustrating. In the meantime, hang in there...

Greg@ReefGeek

P.S. Now for some dinner… I really wish I was kidding.

[mavgi]

Thanks Greg for help to every one i was feel very good to read this post and i am sure all the other member will be more comfortable when they will read it to especially those with the BM200 .

for all the member you can see here in the photo how the skimmer start break in and you can see the type of the thick foam it's build and this is the BM250 with one pump if it was the BM200 the result was better with one pump :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1995.jpg


in this picture you can see when the skimmer start to skim and if you look good you can see the size of the bubble on the neck and i am not run any needle valve on the air pipe :) :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1997.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1998.jpg


again IMO it's just point of adjusting and i am sure if it was the BM200 i was able to show you more better performance :) .

[sjm817]

Greg, glad to see you and Oliver are now aware of and are taking care of the problem.

I've dealt with Greg for a couple years now, mostly T5 lighting stuff, and recently the BM250, and he has always been extremely responsive, and helpful. He will make it right one way or another.

[Oliver P.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9539256#post9539256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Greg, glad to see you and Oliver are now aware of and are taking care of the problem.

I've dealt with Greg for a couple years now, mostly T5 lighting stuff, and recently the BM250, and he has always been extremely responsive, and helpful. He will make it right one way or another.

Ok. As promised we have prepared a new riser for the Bm 200 and the Risers are on the way to the US.

With the new riser you are able to higher the Waterlevel in the skimmer more than 25mm or 1 inch and the the bubbles will flow over if you remove the collection cup like on all the BM 250.

http://www.atiaquaristik.com/content/images/24ac98d15e48580ea2c6d15c2478f090.jpg

So help is on the way.
In the meanwhile you can higher the waterlevel in your skimmer with a simple mod like this:

http://www.atiaquaristik.com/content/images/2652cfe39bcbbde3080a6f577c10c88a.jpg

To close the hole in the silencer you can use a normal tape. The new hole should have a diameter of 3mm or 0,1-0,12 inch.
In this way the waterflow will increase and you have a higher waterlevel.

Also we will make some videos on our Hompage in the near future that shows all details of the right adjusting of our BM´s.

regards,
Oliver

[Creetin]

Ahh that tottaly slipped my mind. I knew if you restriscted the air more water would be injected. I was playing around with a ballvalve on my 250.
Sometimes the things that are staring you in the face is the hardest to see.
Makes sense to close the air line up and restrict it to achive the right waterlevel.

[Baalz]

Oliver
Is it possible that the hole we have in our silencers on some of these BM200 is not correct?
Looking at mine it looks like someone jabbed a pencil into the plastic to make a rough hole. Not very professional looking at all but rather roughly done.

[Creetin]

You could have the hole drilled out for a 250 which need more air, and thats why your getting less water in your skimmer.
Try closing it up a little like oliver stated. You will get more water.

[Baalz]

Oliver
I did as you suggested above.
Taped over my default hole and created a precise 3 mm hole.

If closing the hole up raises the water level. Then why did I go from a 2mm hole to a 3mm hole?

Yes my original hole is 2mm.

[sjm817]

That is a tiny hole.....
My BM250 has a ~ 10mm hole. How could a BM200 get enough air with such a restricted hole in the silencer?

[Baalz]

well I measured my default hole and it is 2mm.

[jefathome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534956#post9534956 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
Oliver,

That comment right there has my attention. One thing that all three of the users that have problem have in common is that the pump is melted on the side, see below:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4437.jpg?t=1174429385

Others without without a problem do not have this. Does this mean we jave old gen pumps like Baalz? We all have the same symptoms so it would make sense. Can one measure the threadwheel to detirmine this? Maybe the melted plastic is an indicator itself that we have old gen pumps?


OK... I also have a pump withe the melting on it.
As I said in the other thread, I do get Skimmate, but only with the riser all the way up, so as you said before, I'm in the "middle" group. I do have a feeling that it is the size of the mesh on my skimmer.

[Creetin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9554399#post9554399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
well I measured my default hole and it is 2mm.

I dont think 2 mm is the size of the old hole. I dont know the metric system granted, but when oliver says 25mm or 1 inch makes me believe that the 2 mm you are saying it is, is bigger that what he is.
That hole he describes is ALOT smaller than the hole thats on there now.

He also said 0,1-0,12 inch So if i am correct on my 4th grade math ;) its around 1/8th inch.

[Baalz]

The new hole I made was 3mm which was about 1/8th inch
The default hole was smaller not larger.

[Creetin]

Got a pic of the old one?
Yes 1/8th is what oliver was describing.

[Baalz]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4456.jpg

[sjm817]

You can see the size of the hole my BM250 uses here:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_1227.jpg

I dont understand why you would want to use a little pinhole. Wouldn't that cut the airflow way back?

[Baalz]

Just following the manufacturers suggestions :rolleye1:

[Creetin]

WOW that is pretty small. I have confidence once this is worked out you'll be happy with it. Its a great skimmer. Maybe its better to get rid of the adjustable stand pipe and use a gatevalve off the bat. Hope the new 200's switch over to the new design.

[palawan]

I have the BM200 and the only hole that is on the cap is the top of the silencer. Is there suppose to be a hole on the cap of the tee?

[Creetin]

No just on the cap of the silencer.

[Oliver P.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9557263#post9557263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
You can see the size of the hole my BM250 uses here:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_1227.jpg

I dont understand why you would want to use a little pinhole. Wouldn't that cut the airflow way back?

Hi,

yes, it cuts the airflow. But only 10%. On the other hand the waterflow increases signifcantly. So, sometimes it makes sence to restrict the airflow.

Again. Please wait. Help is on the way. The right adjustment is very imortant to see the real power of the BM`s. The left BM 200 in the picture shows the higher position of the new riser. In this way you have a wider range to adjust the BM 200.

Thanks,
Oliver

[Baalz]

Oliver
With the Riser adjusted way up you get a significant amount of leakage from it. When its at the bottom it does not leak.

I have a Needle wheel skimmer here made by GEO. He routed a channel in the riser and installed an oring to prevent this sort of leaking.

[Oliver P.]

Baalz,

I know that the wing nut is leaking. But this has no impact on the waterlevel in the skimmer. The waterlevel in the skimmer is definied by the highest point of the water in the wateroutlet (T-fitting). For example you can make another hole next to the wing nut. It makes no difference as long as the water have to climb up to the T-fitting. But please, dont make another hole in there.

But what you can do until you have the new riser ?

I think it is clear that you have to higher the waterlevel in the skimmer. This was my first sentences and will be my last.
There are hundreds ways to do this.
You can use the Fitting and the gatevalve you have laying around or if you dont know how to connect it just put something in the wateroutlet of the T-fitting. If you restrict the wateroutlet you will higher the waterlevel in the skimmer. Thats the way all gatevalve works, too. For example you can use the cap of our silencer and press it into the T-fitting. Cut a big hole (half of the cup) on the top of the cap and suddely your waterlevel is more than 1 inch higher.
Please dont misunderstand me. This is just another possibility for immediate help until you have the new riser or gatevalve. If you have more questions please contact your Vendor. I am sure that he will help you like some of the great guys here in this Forum.

regards,
Oliver

[tboneman]

I have the BM 200 which has been been having some of the same issues that you are having. I took my old 1.25 inch gate valve that I had used as a mod on my old ASM G-2 and plugged it into the T fitting on the riser tube, by sanding a 1.25 inch union down a little with my dremel tool, so it would fit into the T. I also put a 90 degree bend on the opposite end to direct the water flow downward. The end of the bend is actually about a quarter of an inch under water at this point and does not seem to be adversely affecting skimming at all. With the gate valve I can run the skimmer in seven inches of water with the riser tube all the way down, preventing any leakage from the wing nut. I can run the water level in the skimmer as high or as low as I want. Adjustments are very easy and precise. The skimmer is really working great now! Give it a try! Good Luck!

[Baalz]

I am having a gate valve kit sent to me in hopefully a weeks time.. courtesy of ReefGeek. I would still like to have the replacement standpipe that Oliver has sent to the states as well.

At this point I am inclined to believe that it is the water level that is my problem.

[cweder]

Baalz, Oliver suggested raising the water level 2 weeks ago. Please raise the water level. Keep us posted man. Your driving me crazy. LOL

[Baalz]

Heh I was asked to wait.
I have expermented and it seems like that is it.
But I will say my original hole in my silencer seems to have been to small. I have since taken the cap and upper stem off and it seems improved

[ReefGeek-Greg]

Good News!

The gate valve kit did the trick. I sent a demo unit to 'weege1' and he just reported back that it is "working fantastic".

I already have parts on order to make a bunch more. If you need one, please call me toll-free at 866-295-9230.

Greg@ReefGeek

P.S. Baalz you'll be one of the first to get one.

[linyreefer]

When can I get a BM 160?

[Oliver P.]

We will sent a shipment with the new BM 160 to the US next week. So the new BM 160 should be available in 2 weeks.

regards,
Oliver

[DT's_Reef]

I just picked up a BM200 from Reefgeek today and set it up with the gate valve. Looks very promising. This is replacing an H&S skimmer.

I started off by lifting the exhaust tube as high as possible and the level in the skimmer was very low. I closed the gate valve slightly and brought the water level up a tad, but am leaving it low as I know it'll increase as it breaks in.

I went into the tank room a while later and the water level had increased quite a bit, so I had to open up the valve further.

The bubbles look very very fine, and there are tons of them. I have no doubt this will work very nicely. I'll report more as it adjusts.

I did the warm water/vinegar bath as well. I also rinsed the inside of the pump with it, as there's quite a bit of greasy film in it.

[DT's_Reef]

Balz, interestingly my skimmer seems to exhibit the same symptoms as yours...but I have the gatevalve and was able to increase the water level very easily. The bubbles are very violent in the neck and have not been getting any kind of film/skimmate.

Last night I fed mysis and another cube of meaty food...presto, 30 minutes later I looked at the skimmer and the bubbles were much more fine and dry looking at the top of the tube with darker film forming on the tube. I have a bit of light yellow/tea color skimmate collected in the cup. This morning it was back to the non-skimming stage.

At this point I'm sure it just needs more break-in. The air filter tube thing-cap also has a small airhole in it....probably 2-3mm. But, I can see this is very necessary as this skimmer sucks in a ton of air, and possibly would benefit from having a little valve to restrict airflow in order to decrease the size of the bubbles and/or increase the water level in the skimmer.

[Baalz]

I do have the gate valve installed on my skimmer now. Im still letting it do its thing before giving my full opinion. So far the skimmer is definitely skimming now.

[DT's_Reef]

After 4 days I have 3/4"-1" of tea colored skimmate collected. I have a very light bio load in this tank, so feeding has been minimal.

I really like the wet skimming, as it seems to allow a consistent skim rate without having a lot of crud collect quickly in the neck first, slowing the collection of skimmate down.

[DT's_Reef]

After 4 days I have 3/4"-1" of tea colored skimmate collected. I have a very light bio load in this tank, so feeding has been minimal.

I really like the wet skimming, as it seems to allow a consistent skim rate without having a lot of crud collect quickly in the neck first, slowing the collection of skimmate down.

[palawan]

I have added a valve on the intake tube that fits inside the silencer and was able the adjust the valve to get finer bubbles in the riser. This, along with my gate valve mod enables me to tune the skimmer in various ways. At the moment I have the foam head breaking at around an inch from the top of the riser tube with fine bubbles at 3/4 of the riser. My skimmate is a very dark green tea color. I can also get it lighter like a brownish color. This skimmer is awesome!!

[Oliver P.]

Hello,

I really like the wet skimming, as it seems to allow a consistent skim rate without having a lot of crud collect quickly in the neck first, slowing the collection of skimmate down.

Exactly. That is the reason why we always recommend to adjust the skimmer more wet. Of course the skimmate dont look so dark, but in the long term run you will have a better result. The only difference between a dry and a wet skimmate is the quantity of water you remove.

By the way. This picture shows the Performance of a Pump on our Teststation.

http://www.atiaquaristik.com/content/images/e94c2db4d2948e83edeb7026799a716a.jpg

A pump is always the heart of a skimmer. And with the right adjustment you will automatically get great performance after the skimmer is dialed in.

regards,
Oliver

[johns]

Oliver-

I am considering a BM200 skimmer. Actually still a bit undecided between the BM200 and BM250. But leaning towards the BM200.

However, I have heard that the BM200 has more performance issues than the BM250. So my other question is, are there more modifications, generations coming down the road for the BM200? I could wait a few months for the latest and best changes to come along if any are planned right now.

Is the actual material construction of these 2 skimmers pretty much the same? If no, what sort of differences in construction?

[klam114]

Obviously, I'm not Oliver. johns, we keep meeting on the different BM threads. :D There is no performance issues with the BM200, it's just that there was a lot of inexperience new users who had skimmers that wasn't fully adjustable with the default T-exhaust. ReefGeek and my local dealer (kmaintl) sent out ball/gate valve mods and it took care of the problem. All new BM200 comes with the mod now, so you won't have any problems. Also, all the current BM200 have the bigger diameter meshpad, so greater performance than my version 1 model.

As for construction difference, the BM250 has a much thicker acrylic body. I think is is 3mm vs 5mm, so almost double the thickness. In terms of construction, the BM250 is an overall better built unit. I did not hear of any plans to change the BM200 even though my local dealer have suggested several times for ATi to increase the thickness of the body size. But it is adequate, I wouldn't think that it would crack from normal use. Hope this helps.

[Baalz]

I received my Gate Valve assembly over a week ago thanks to Reef Geek. Now for my thoughts on the BM200

I had read every thread on the Bubble Masters before making a decision to buy. Listened to all the recommendations on skimmer size and finally decided on the BM 200.
When I received my Skimmer I gave it a 4 hour vinegar bath and then after a good rinsing I put it on my 180g tank.
I never got any good performance from the skimmer from the get go. The riser could not be raised enough to get the water level high enough. First I found out one of the wire ties on my mesh wheel was not even connected which caused the mesh wheel to fray. Going through quite a bit of frustration on changing the sump depth among many other things.. including redoing my mesh multiple times I was at my wits end.
I purchased this skimmer from Blue Ribbin Koi and even though they were very good to me over the phone they dumped my problem on Reef Geek. Greg was great to deal with he sent me new mesh material and then finally the Gate Valve mod. I was impressed by the gate valve. Usually they are pretty stiff to turn but this one worked very easily.

I can get decent skim now but I am still far from impressed. When I saw BM250 users dose green chemicals they would get green skimmate. With my old Geo Needlewheel if I dosed a blue additive I rarely use.. The skimmer would pull it back out and I would have blue skimmate.
This BM200 will not pull this blue additive back out.. Now after having this skimmer on my system for about 1.5 months I am starting to see algae problems developing that I did not have before.

So this skimmer of mine came with a damaged mesh wheel that wasn't even connected all the way. The standpipe was not effective. Oliver told us that he was sending new standpipes right away but they have never surfaced. Greg of Reef Geek came up with a gate valve mod that allows the skimmer to work..
I am not happy about having to mod a brand new skimmer just to get it to work.

I feel the BM200 is mostly a failure. At least it is on my system. In hindsight I wish I had bought the BM250 and even tried to get an upgrade to one because of my problems. But that didn't go over well. I cannot really recall any BM250 users having problems but there were plenty of BM200 users with problems that surfaced. We may be getting skimmate now with the gate valve.. But try dosing and see if it will pull it back out like the 250 have been doing.

Did I say mine didn't have a sticker either?

[Baalz]

After thinking about.
I can safely say my Geo Needlewheel out performed this skimmer by at least 2x. If it wasn't because of it flooding on me I wouldn't of changed.
At least the BM200 does not flood and skims stable. I cannot get nowhere near the skimmate the GEO was able to produce. The photos of everyone BM250s surely showed up my Needlewheel but not this BM200.

[JGoslee]

Is anyone who owns the bm200 happy with it? Just curious because I just ordered one for my 90gal and I have yet to see any good reviews of this skimmer. I'm starting to regret it and I don't even have it yet.

[palawan]

I am happy with mine, but I have the first generation model which I've replaced the big bulky ball valve with a gate valve. I've also included an air valve at the intake. I can tweak this baby for the skimmate I want by adj. either the gate valve or air intake valve. I keep the skimmer in 7" of water.

[Creetin]

There alr alot of people that have this gen, I have only seen one with this extent of problems.(Baalz)

[Baalz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9779192#post9779192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
There alr alot of people that have this gen, I have only seen one with this extent of problems.(Baalz)

Yup guess Im the only one and I must be all imagining my problems cause I must be totally clueless.

[heuerfan]

I just picked up my BM200 (generation3). I gave it a warm bath overnight with a little vinegar, not very much. I couldn't wait to put it in my sump. When i first placed it in, i could not get the water level in the collection cup to go lower. My sump level is 10". I decided to give the skimmer a lift and added a 4" acrylic napkin holder, that did the trick. I can adjust the water level high or low now with the gate valve. I'm assuming i'm going to have a long break in period because i didn't give it a good bath but i couldn't wait :)

Here are some pics, let me know if you see any problems, thanks!

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/4/11023200261.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5279125)

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/4/11023200429.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5279129)

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/4/11023200575.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5279131)

Thanks,
Steven

[heuerfan]

Never mind, figured it out :)

[cweder]

Very sorry to hear about your BM200 Baalz. If you decide to sell it, I am sure someone else will be willing to give it a go. I might suggest sending it back to where you purchased, see if you can get some credit for it and have them run it to see how they like it. Sounds like you had the right skimmer for your system all along in the GEO.

[Freds]

Mine works great. It's a Gen 3 BM 200 and it pulls out anything I put in. If I dose Ultra min or Ultra Bak (which it orange) my skimmate is orange. I fed some cyclopeze and it was redish orange in 30 minutes. I'm not having any of these problems on my skimmer.

My BM 200 sits in 8 inches of water. The bottom of the T from the gatevalve is submerged. The gate is fully open and the bubbles break at the very bottom of the riser tube. Over the coarse of the day they rise and collect. Even set to be "dry" it skims wet but is perhaps a break in issue.

It's been running for one week and so far I'm quite happy with it. This replaced a Deltec APF600.

As to those who aren't happy, have you checked your impeller? If your mesh unraveled then you need more mesh. Any skimmer is only as good as the pump/impeller. If your mesh weel is shot then of course your skimmer isn't working. That's like breaking all the needles off a needle wheel and complaing that your skimmer sucks. No sh!t.

I bought this skimmer knowing that it uses experimental and unproven technology. I also bought it knowing that it was a copy of a two thousand dollar skimmer. They got it down to 25% of the cost by cutting corners. If I wanted a good build and a proven pump I would have bought the expensive version of it. I wanted to see how good a skimmer they could make on a budget. I think ATI did very well. The mesh has its limitations which they are very upfront with. The air draw on these pumps is insane (three times the deltec) and the bubble size blows the doors off my deltec at less price!

[heuerfan]

My set up is very similar to Freds, except mine is in 6.5 inches of water. So far its only been one day and i am very pleased with this skimmer. Like Freds mine also rise and collect during the course of the day and also stop production when my hand is in the tank. Here's a pic of my skimate after one day, the tank is a 125 gallon with 3 four inch wrasses.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/4/11200155937.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5287282)

[DT's_Reef]

The impeller just split/cracked on my BM200. Came home and noticed tank was more quiet than usual and discovered the pump wasn't running.

Hopefully it can be replaced.

[heuerfan]

I've had this skimmer for 3 weeks now and so far so good. I decided to add an air valve to see what would happen. Once i placed the air valve on the bubbles became very tiny, and this is with the air valve turned 1/4 closed. If i closed the air valve further the bubbles would overflow the collection cup! I've attached some pictures for you guys to see. Do you think i should leave the air valve on, are tiny bubbles better for skimmate production? Any advice or comment is appreciated.

Thanks,
Steven

I had to lower the water level before i added the airvalve or else the collection cup would overflow.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/24844bm250.jpg

Airvalve added.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/24844bm250valve.JPG

Another shot.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/24844bm250valve2.JPG

Bubbles.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/24844bubbles.JPG

[palawan]

I've added the gatevalve and airvalve on my BM200 and got the smaller bubbles with the airvalve install also. I was told by Ed of KMI, that the smaller finer bubbles are what you want. I have my gate valve, air valve set so that the foam head breaks at 1" below the risers edge and the "water tornado" is kept as close to the skimmer body without nearing the collection cup riser. I get a good very dark olive green smelly skimmate with this setting.

[Creetin]

Yes the small bubbles is what ya want. Looks good there.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9883660#post9883660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DT's_Reef
The impeller just split/cracked on my BM200. Came home and noticed tank was more quiet than usual and discovered the pump wasn't running.

Hopefully it can be replaced. You won't have a problem getting a replacement. Ed tells me that Greg at ReefGeek is excellent on customer support. I don't think anyone could question why an impeller would break, especially if the unit is only weeks old. I would be surprise if everything is taken care of within days.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9773022#post9773022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
After thinking about.
I can safely say my Geo Needlewheel out performed this skimmer by at least 2x. If it wasn't because of it flooding on me I wouldn't of changed.
At least the BM200 does not flood and skims stable. I cannot get nowhere near the skimmate the GEO was able to produce. The photos of everyone BM250s surely showed up my Needlewheel but not this BM200. Is your unit for sale? I'm sure there's plenty who like to get one at a discount. :D

[JGoslee]

I've had my bm200 setup for about a week now. I can't get it to stop over flowing. I've had the gate valve in every position and it still overflows. My sump water level is 7". Should my sump level be lower?

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9914299#post9914299 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/24844bm250valve2.JPG
Bubbles.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/24844bubbles.JPG
These photos look perfect to me. Bubbles are really fine (assume it's because of your air valve) and I see you got one of those Deltec air valves as well. You have a really good foamhead building, but it looks new and fresh as if you just finished cleaning your collection cup. Give yourself a little more time and you will get something like this. I got this photo from Ed today as he is in the process of redecorating his reef tank and this is what his skimmer picked up. I witnessed it and it is exactly as dark as you see in the photo. I've never seen it this dark in the the times I've been by his office. He is also using a Deltec air valve on top of the air hose to restrict the air and a gate valve to control the bubble breaking level within the skimmer. If you look closely, the fine bubbles is in the body, neck and inside riser of Ed's BM200. This is 3 days of collecting. http://preview.klam8.photosite.com/~photos/tn/10480372_1024.ts1178853951899.jpg

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9919427#post9919427 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
I've had my bm200 setup for about a week now. I can't get it to stop over flowing. I've had the gate valve in every position and it still overflows. My sump water level is 7". Should my sump level be lower? Have you tried taking the gate valve mod completely off and just leave the reducing elbow turned facing down? If so, then try removing the exhaust T-fitting from the riser pipe and set that T aside and this will definitely lower your foaming action at least a few inches.

[JGoslee]

I haven't tried taking the gate valve off yet. I'll try that today. I have the air valve from my AP600. Would that help at all if I used that?

[DT's_Reef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9919373#post9919373 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
You won't have a problem getting a replacement. Ed tells me that Greg at ReefGeek is excellent on customer support. I don't think anyone could question why an impeller would break, especially if the unit is only weeks old. I would be surprise if everything is taken care of within days.

I spoke with Greg already and was told he would take care of it asap. I mentioned to him that my unit chatters a lot when restarting it, and felt this is why the impeller magnet cracked. He said it's likely because not enough air is running through the line. I checked, and it's not kinked, and there's no salt build up in it (it's literally new anyway, and has the cotton prefilter stuff). I'm thinking perhaps I need to enlarge the "breathing hole" that's poked in the top of the air filter cap.

The funny part is I've been without a skimmer for a week now, and my SPS seem to be enjoying it. They must be getting more food. My tank has a very very light bio load and feeding schedule, with 2 small fish in a 90g system, and a handful of corals. I feed a bit of rotifers/dt's/cyclops every few days.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9920771#post9920771 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
I haven't tried taking the gate valve off yet. I'll try that today. I have the air valve from my AP600. Would that help at all if I used that? On the air valve, I haven't used it so I cannot comment from experience. But it looks like at least a 1/2 dozen BM200 members who has been using some sort of air valve is getting much finer bubbles, better foaming and calmer riser action. Try it, it wouldn't hurt since you already have one of those $10 jobbers. :D

Try removing the entire gate valve first and see if your skimmer still overflows? Wait 24 hours before doing any additional adjustments as this is what I learned from Ed. If skimming still too wet and bubble breaking level still too high, remove the T-exhaust completely and this will definitely drop your waterlevel a few inches.

If neither of these works for you. You need to check back with who you bought your skimmer from for support in figuring it out, or check in with ReefGeek.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9923194#post9923194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DT's_Reef
I spoke with Greg already and was told he would take care of it asap. I mentioned to him that my unit chatters a lot when restarting it, and felt this is why the impeller magnet cracked. He said it's likely because not enough air is running through the line. I checked, and it's not kinked, and there's no salt build up in it (it's literally new anyway, and has the cotton prefilter stuff). I'm thinking perhaps I need to enlarge the "breathing hole" that's poked in the top of the air filter cap.

The funny part is I've been without a skimmer for a week now, and my SPS seem to be enjoying it. They must be getting more food. My tank has a very very light bio load and feeding schedule, with 2 small fish in a 90g system, and a handful of corals. I feed a bit of rotifers/dt's/cyclops every few days. I have had a number of discussions with Ed on how he installs skimmers for his customers. Being that the BM150 is no longer available and the BM160 is still to come, who knows when as it's been promised for quick a long time now, Ed has been tunning down BM200 for smaller tanks as he does NOT believe that any skimmer should be severely overkill. With your light bioload, you might have that issue. I know that Ed does not install a stock BM200 on tanks less than 120g, they are all tuned down. You can see the results he gets on his on 100g reef tank, the skimmate is like coffee yesterday and full of detritus.

I would guess that your mesh on your threadwheel is too large in diameter, too thick or too many stray threads. Always check air hoses for restart problems first, but if not there, then it usually the mesh. But your problem should correct itself when you get a new impeller as the size will be different and hopefully better matched for your pump.

[heuerfan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9920771#post9920771 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
I haven't tried taking the gate valve off yet. I'll try that today. I have the air valve from my AP600. Would that help at all if I used that?

Think the airvalve will make it worst. When i added the airvalve the bubble break level increased so i had to lower water level with the gatevalve.

Maybe you should take the skimmer out and place in a container of fresh water and make sure the skimmer is sitting in 7 inches of water. Then see if you can lower the water level with the gatevalve without overflowing the collection cup. Perhaps something in your tank causing the skimmer to overflow.

Or try raising your skimmer some more so it is sitting in 5 inches of water.

Good luck.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9923539#post9923539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
Think the airvalve will make it worst. When i added the airvalve the bubble break level increased so i had to lower water level with the gatevalve.

Maybe you should take the skimmer out and place in a container of fresh water and make sure the skimmer is sitting in 7 inches of water. Then see if you can lower the water level with the gatevalve without overflowing the collection cup. Perhaps something in your tank causing the skimmer to overflow.

Or try raising your skimmer some more so it is sitting in 5 inches of water.

Good luck. Thanks for chiming in. I have no experience with air valves, so probably shouldn't have commented. But I agree on the 5" sump waterlevel if you can get it there. It will definitely help. I really think there's something in the water causing the overflow, so that's why you want to get that waterlevel down anyway you can, even removing the T-exhaust completely until the skimmer collects all the organics out of your tank water, then you might start to see how it's suppose to perform.

[DaveJ]

I am cautiously pleased with my BM200 at this point. Between hours of phone calls, emails and trial and error, I think Ed and I finally have this thing tuned in. It has pulled significant skimmate the last two weeks. Previously it would pull, but overflow and surge as well. The skimmate was basically white foamy spit..... now its nice thick tobacco type production so I think its turned the corner.

What did the trick for me was dropping the riser to the bottom, adding the deltec air-valve to the hose and keeping the hose attached to the side of the cup and adjusting the gate valve so the base level is about an inch above the bottom of the cup.

I will confess I was about a fraction of an inch from throwing a major fit when we got this figured out so I can sympathize with folks like baalz.... and I really think that maybe they Oliver or Greg should consider replacing his unit completely with a model they have tested and know to be working like it should. I know mine worked great for ed when he tested it for 2 weeks, but it didn't plug and play into my system.

If my BM200 continues down this path, i will consider this a positive experience with ATI, Greg and Ed. The only one in that group that has anything to worry about is ATI though ;) Well greg too maybe if he doesn't send me an ATI sticker!!!

[Creetin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9920771#post9920771 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
I haven't tried taking the gate valve off yet. I'll try that today. I have the air valve from my AP600. Would that help at all if I used that?

If you could get it in 5-6 inches of water i think that will def help.

[JGoslee]

I dropped the water level down to 6" in the sump and I added a Deltec airvalve to the hose. At some point last night I got about an inch of dark nog but I haven't gotten any since. Where should the water level be in the skimmer?

[klam114]

At where the bubbles break and become foam, you should start that around 1" above the bottom plate of the collection cup or even with the bottom of the collection cup. Since you got an inch of dark nog, within 24 hours, you will probably collect some more. Once your skimmer has collected the excess organic waste, it can then be readjusted to skim the way it is suppose to.

[JGoslee]

The skimmer is now overflowing again. I honestly have no idea how to get this skimmer to work properly. If you have this skimmer and it is working properly can you tell me what your sump water level is? How high or low you have the riser? What position you have your gate valve in(open, opened half way, closed)? Where the bubbles start to break in the skimmer body?

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9940629#post9940629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
The skimmer is now overflowing again. I honestly have no idea how to get this skimmer to work properly. If you have this skimmer and it is working properly can you tell me what your sump water level is? How high or low you have the riser? What position you have your gate valve in(open, opened half way, closed)? Where the bubbles start to break in the skimmer body?

You have a PM

[heuerfan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9940629#post9940629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
The skimmer is now overflowing again. I honestly have no idea how to get this skimmer to work properly. If you have this skimmer and it is working properly can you tell me what your sump water level is? How high or low you have the riser? What position you have your gate valve in(open, opened half way, closed)? Where the bubbles start to break in the skimmer body?

All the answers are on this thread. I posted that you should not use the airvalve. You are just adding another adjustment for yourself to tinker with and give yourself problems. Did you try what i told you, place in fresh water and see if you can adjust water level so it wouldn't overflow?

Very sorry you are having problems with this skimmer but in my opinion its been very easy to setup and operate and adjust.

Good luck.

[Creetin]

Its new it will break in soon.
I would run it wide open and not try to raise the waterlevel. Keep it as low as possable. Then when you think between 2-3 weeks just start raising it 1/16 a turn till its getting nog ya like.
Are you dosing any amino's or using some epoxy on frags lately?

[TwistedTiger]

Recieved my new BM 200 today started trying to break it in and have just a couple of questions. 1st I'm finding it hard to believe that they are still sending out skimmers where the T fitting on the riser tube hitting the collection cup doesn't allow you to utilize it. I know that when I get the gate valve assembly it will do the same job(wasn't in the box), however since the T fitting will be below the water level in the skimmer and the air intake is right above the T what stops the water level in the outlet assembly from flooding the air intake? Has anyone done different mods to the outlet gate valve assembly to keep the water out of the silencer and air intake?

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9956468#post9956468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TwistedTiger
Recieved my new BM 200 today started trying to break it in and have just a couple of questions. 1st I'm finding it hard to believe that they are still sending out skimmers where the T fitting on the riser tube hitting the collection cup doesn't allow you to utilize it. I know that when I get the gate valve assembly it will do the same job(wasn't in the box), however since the T fitting will be below the water level in the skimmer and the air intake is right above the T what stops the water level in the outlet assembly from flooding the air intake? Has anyone done different mods to the outlet gate valve assembly to keep the water out of the silencer and air intake?

Air intake is all handled by the silicon hose, so it won't flood it unless that gets submerged. I pulled mine out of the tube with the floss filling and connected it to the collection cup with an adhesive clip.

The gate-valve in my opinion is essential... it solved most of my problems, the the little deltec airvalve on the silicon hose finalized the adjustments for me.

I'm pulling about an inch of dark skimmate per day now....

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9940629#post9940629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JGoslee
The skimmer is now overflowing again. I honestly have no idea how to get this skimmer to work properly. If you have this skimmer and it is working properly can you tell me what your sump water level is? How high or low you have the riser? What position you have your gate valve in(open, opened half way, closed)? Where the bubbles start to break in the skimmer body?

Sump water level is a inch or two below the cone. My riser is done to the bottom and I do have the gate valve connected. My gate valve is positioned to bend back towards the front of the skimmer so the output of that is NOT above the pump. Its perfectly horizontal from its connection. My skimmer is set so the pump is in the rear of the chamber in the sump.

Bubbles start about an inch below the cone and the starting point of the bubbles in the neck are about an inch above the bottom of the cup itself. I started at the bottom and got plenty of skimmate but it was dry for my tastes, I raised the level about an inch or so and now am getting a nice dark froth that is more wet in nature.

[TwistedTiger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9956639#post9956639 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaveJ
Air intake is all handled by the silicon hose, so it won't flood it unless that gets submerged. I pulled mine out of the tube with the floss filling and connected it to the collection cup with an adhesive clip.
I understand that the air intake is handled by the hose, I've owned other needle wheel skimmers before this one. With each of those that utilized an outlet valve assembly with a stand pipe the level in the stand pipe was equal to the level in the skimmer. The level in the BM 200 will be higher than the top end of the air tubing. What is different about the BM 200 that keeps the air tubing from flooding if it is left in the outlet assembly and an outlet valve is added?

[DaveJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9956922#post9956922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TwistedTiger
I understand that the air intake is handled by the hose, I've owned other needle wheel skimmers before this one. With each of those that utilized an outlet valve assembly with a stand pipe the level in the stand pipe was equal to the level in the skimmer. The level in the BM 200 will be higher than the top end of the air tubing. What is different about the BM 200 that keeps the air tubing from flooding if it is left in the outlet assembly and an outlet valve is added?

Not sure but it didn't flood that chamber or suck water in where the floss is located.

[klam114]

TT - neither did mine, no flooding or water backing into the air silencer chamber.

[TwistedTiger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9957269#post9957269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
TT - neither did mine, no flooding or water backing into the air silencer chamber.
Sounds good now I just need someone to answer a phone or email so I can get a gate valve.

I have mine up and running and no problems with it overflowing like some are reporting but the highest I can get my bubble level is the bottom of the neck without a valve. Hopefully it will not take all that long for it to break in, I'm not known for my patience.:D :D :D

[klam114]

Your skimmer will take 2-3 weeks to break in and the break in process can start without the gate valve kit. You won't need the gate for at least 3-5 days. The skimmer is basically building up the slim inside the skimmer and pumps right now.

[TwistedTiger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9958086#post9958086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
Your skimmer will take 2-3 weeks to break in and the break in process can start without the gate valve kit. You won't need the gate for at least 3-5 days. The skimmer is basically building up the slim inside the skimmer and pumps right now.
Yes, I did a good 50/50 vinegar bath hoping to cut the break in time. 2-3 weeks is a long time for most skimmers but reading the posts before I bought I was expecting a long break in time. Gate valve should be in the mail tomorrow (thanks Greg), by the time it comes in it should be time to tune it a little.

[klam114]

TT - What skimmer are you switching from? I read in an earlier post that you ordered from KMA Int'l. If you have any questions breaking in your skimmer, pick Ed's brain. He has intimate knowledge & experience with the BM200. You can't rush slim coating the skimmer unless you have a tub of water from a water change with a cupful of skimmate from your old skimmer. Running it in this for a couple days would definitely speed up the slim coating process.

[TwistedTiger]

I had a recirced G3 and was looking for a little better. I had settled on the H&S A150 for some time and changed my mind right before I ordered largely based on the side by side tests Ed did and a few of the posts by some of the skimmer experts here like mavgi.

Like I said I did a good vinegar bath which usually helps greatly, plugged it in and let her go. It's bubbling away just like it should, I just need my gate valve to adjust it where I want and sit back and wait for it to start forming a foam head. Right now it's just tons of bubbles as I would expect for a day or two. I was kind of suprised I didn't have the foam over that many are talking about, It's doing exactly what you would expect a brand new skimmer to do.

So far Ed has definitely been great and helpful, I had many questions before I ordered. I will not hesitate to use him as a resource if needed, but I think all I need now is a gate valve and time.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9931170#post9931170 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TwistedTiger
I'd sure like to know how they perform if anyone uses one of these. I may have to upgrade my tank just so I can get a BM300. I like this statement you made in the other thread. :lol:
The H&S A150 is one nice skimmer, but I know you won't be disappointed with this BM200.

[TwistedTiger]

A little less than 72 hrs running and it has been producing a foam head for the last 24. It's just enough to push out the top of the riser and create a very small amount of skimate in the collection cup.

I changed out my old sump for a brand new one yesterday. With reconnecting the pumps to my 2 returns, calcium reactor and hooking my auto top off back up my hands were in the tank for a couple of hours. That killed all foam production for at least 8 hrs.

I will not have my gate valve assembly for a few more days so I can't fine tune the level but it's about where I would want it anyway since I like a drier foam. I figure another 3 days and I should have a good idea of how it will perform for me. I'll try to post some pics later today.

[Creetin]

Hands in the tanks and the big thing i found out kills the foam in my skimmer from anywhere to 2-6 hrs is that artic pods and freshwater mysis you get at asian market. If i soak and rinse it off in RO it will only kill the skimmer for 2 hrs, And if i don't forget about having foam for 6 hrs.
Now i just get the real mysis prepackaged, and that has little effect on my skimmers, and they are full strength in a half an hr.

[JGoslee]

Update.. I think I have the skimmer working pretty good now. My problem was very simple. My tank water level was changing due to evaporation and I wasn't using an ATO. When ever the water level would get below 5" in the sump the skimmer would begin to overflow. I've since fixed the water level problem and now have the skimmer working pretty well. I still need to do some fine tuning but overall I'm happy with the skimmer.

[Freds]

I've heard a lot about it not skimming after feeding but I dont' have a problem with it, here's why:

I dose ultralith so when I cut the return pump to feed I also dose. Since I'm dosing things that I don't want the skimmer to pull out I have it set on a delay of 60 minutes. My Reef Keeper 2 turns the skimmer back on after that time period. It then starts up just fine and skims away. Also I only check my skimmer once a day so if a few hours go by here and there where it's not skimming, I'm ok with that. Its 24 hour performance blows the doors off the other skimmers that I've used so I can deal with it.

[TwistedTiger]

My skimmer never stops skimming when I feed but it probably depends greatly on what you feed. So far I love my BM 200 and it's skimming really good, but it is definitely by far the most sensative skimmer I have ever heard of. If you even think about putting your hands in the tank it shuts down for a couple of hours. It's only been running for 2 weeks so hopefully it will get less sensative in time.

[brianbigoats]

here is a pick skimmate from 3 day of mine BM200 its a Gen 1
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/brianbigoats/IMG_0502.jpg

[klam114]

BG, I see you're quite happy with your skimmer. Looks like some catching up going on.

[klam114]

TT - any photo updates? I know your skimmer is doing well according to your posts.

[TwistedTiger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10074971#post10074971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
TT - any photo updates? I know your skimmer is doing well according to your posts.
Cleaned the cup this morning and will post a pic in a couple of days . It's still not collecting a ton, probably because I have it on a 75g with 5 fish but it foams like crazy. I have it set to skim fairly dry and it is still collecting about 3 times as much as my modded G3 was.

[klam114]

3x better than a G3 modded sounds really good. can't remember if your skimmer is tuned down or not. have you thought about tunning it down if you haven't already?

[TwistedTiger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10075504#post10075504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
3x better than a G3 modded sounds really good. can't remember if your skimmer is tuned down or not. have you thought about tunning it down if you haven't already?

Just went to the hardware store about 10 minutes ago and picked up an air valve. Before I had very large bubbles in the neck with a thick dry dark foam head. After adding the air valve and partially closing it I an getting very fine bubbles in the neck but had to close the gate valve a little to get the proper level. I'm not sure if reducing the air is what everyone is calling tunning it down but I'm going to try it for a week and see if it produces better. If not I'll just return to the open air tube and open gate which produced pretty good.

[klam114]

There's several steps to tunning down a skimmer, but first step is the easiest and yes, it involves cutting down the air and compensating with the gate valve. I hate to suggest anything else as it can throw your skimmer out of balance and better to check with Ed or Greg unless you are extremely adventureous like Magvi. When I saw Ed tuned down his display unit, that BM200 all of sudden skimmed as dark as the Deltec skimmer that was on the tank earlier, but twice the amount. So, instead of lighter tea, it became a very dark greenish/brown. Not being a technical person, dark looks like it's performing much better and collecting more waste.

[Baalz]

Well I am "still" pretty disgusted with the performance of my BM 200 skimmer.
I have tried everything to get it to skim like all the claims and photos I have seen.

Being that I'm stuck with it, maybe if I rearrange my sump layout it will improve.

[Reef Sponger]

Why don't you offer your unit for sale, I'm sure someone wants it. Have you ever thought about giving KM Associates Int'l a call? They probably have more experience with the BM200 than any other dealer.

[Baalz]

3 months after posting this I still get minimal skimmate from this skimmer. Even after doing a water change with me stirring up things a bit I have yet to see any outstanding performance from this skimmer.
I am now replacing 40g of water a week. In order to curtail the death of several SPS and cyano that has developed.

What have I done?

-Replaced mesh on wheel (original mesh was not connected when purchased)

-changed the depth of the skimmer several times.

-Replacement impeller was supposedly being sent. Never received one.

-I have the gate valve assembly (big help, original design is crap)

-Awaited replacement standpipes, which were "on their way" according to Oliver. Never saw one.

-Tried an air valve with endless tampering. (original hole in standpipe came with wrong diameter poked through plastic)

-Moved skimmer to different sections of my sump

-Tried filter socks

-Asked to have unit replaced or upgraded to BM250 at my cost, was ignored.

My previous needlewheel skimmer did a much better job then this. I thought I was upgrading my equipment when I purchased this skimmer. That has not happened.
I understand these skimmers are priced cheaply but for me it was a big purchase and I have yet to give up on it. Maybe one day I will find out what I am doing wrong. Since it obviously has to be me.. right?

When I read back over most the posts about these skimmers it almost feels like quite a few of them were shills for the people selling them.

Could it be after seeing all these marvelous posts saying and showing how great this skimmer is that my expectations are to high? Or do I have some odd sort of chemical imbalance in my system which causes lack of skimmer functionality?

There is nothing to this skimmer design that would lead me to think something is actually wrong with it. I like the design and want it to work. But when I can stir up my tank and sump a bit after a water change and still not see this skimmer really kick in. Thats when I start feeling like I do now. disgusted.

[Jim_S]

Baalz,

Unfortunately, there does seem be several shills working on this site. It takes the purity away from the forum, and the result is a forum that people come to in order to learn, and wind up getting "sold" instead. Pretty sad that people are making money off this site like that.....

I hope your skimmer works out for you down the road. I understand your frustration. All the talk about great CS, and all you have are broken promises.....

Good luck,

Jim

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10178061#post10178061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
Baalz,

Unfortunately, there does seem be several shills working on this site. It takes the purity away from the forum, and the result is a forum that people come to in order to learn, and wind up getting "sold" instead. Pretty sad that people are making money off this site like that.....

I hope your skimmer works out for you down the road. I understand your frustration. All the talk about great CS, and all you have are broken promises.....

Good luck,

Jim
Agree with Jim. There is no doubt about the shills on this site. Its a shame it is allowed to go on.

I wish I knew what to tell you about the skimmer. My BM250 does not suffer from the problems you have had. Mine is also as stock as the day I bought it. No modifications at all.

[mavgi]

i hope Mr' Greg will put attention to this post and try to do the best to solve this problem if i have the same issue i was feeling the same . IMO it doesn't matter if the skimmers are priced cheaply they still cost money and ppl work hard for the money....

the easy way it's to say to sell this skimmer and buy other but the right way it's to give all the help and the support to have happy and satisfied customer .

i wish i was able to help .

[Freds]

Dude I can't believe you're having problems with your BM200. In the last month mine has caught up on with my tank and I now think that the BM200 is too much skimmer for a 90 gallon tank. Even heavily stocked and feeding heavily I'm almost unable meet the baseline nutrient level required for it to get skimmate up and over the cup. Instead I mostly get thick mung all over the inside of the top half of the cup.

It definitely pulls more than my Deltec APF600 did.

[asmodeus]

my skimmer is a BM250 with the dual pumps that i bought from CHAFFEY on RC it doesnt have a tEE but a gate valve should i put a 90 on it where the water comes out to raise the water level. its sitting in 9" of water.

here is some pictureshttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e122/asmodeus338/DSC03358.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e122/asmodeus338/DSC03359.jpg

sorry for the crappy pictures

[Aqua Keepers]

Freds, I'll be looking for one soon if you're looking to sell.

[CruzinKim]

Wow, a thread risen from the dead for Halloween! :lol:

If Freds is still monitoring this thread, if you're still having challenges with the skimmer to big for your setup, why don't you consider tuning down your skimmer to match the tank's bioload? My BM160 is a perfect match for my 90g, but I can see that no matter how much you feed or overstock a 90g, it's must be hard to keep up with a BM200. I've seen many postings at tuning down the BM200 for smaller tanks. Just a suggestion so that you won't be frustrated with your skimmer and then when you upgrade in the future, retune it back up so no new skimmer needed? :confused:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10182364#post10182364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freds
Dude I can't believe you're having problems with your BM200. In the last month mine has caught up on with my tank and I now think that the BM200 is too much skimmer for a 90 gallon tank. Even heavily stocked and feeding heavily I'm almost unable meet the baseline nutrient level required for it to get skimmate up and over the cup. Instead I mostly get thick mung all over the inside of the top half of the cup.

It definitely pulls more than my Deltec APF600 did.

[mr. pluto]

asmodeus, it's good to go just like that, no extra pipes needed.

[Lumamae]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1244813

[asmodeus]

Thanks MR pluto I love this skimmer I have pulled alot of crap out of my tank from this skimmer VS the euro reef

[MGB]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x240/boltondesign/ATI-BM200.jpg


There was a lot of hype around this skimmer when it first came out, I purchased one about 8 months ago now. After running this skimmer on my 160 gal for the last 6 months, I can't complain, it's a solid skimmer and for the money it beats the majority of the competition. Bottom line, a quality product, well designed and well built.