Converting a 65 gal to a 65 Wide

[GreenUku]

I'm hoping I can get some input about a crazy idea I have to convert a standard tank to a custom tank.

For some reason, I really want a tank with a wider footprint than ones you can easily find. I was doing some calculations and decided that a tank with a 36" L x 24" W footprint sounded good.

The standard 65 gallon from AGA measures 36" L x 18" W x 24" H. That's the right dimensions, but in the wrong directions. Seeing as custom builders and glass shops both charge an arm and a leg, I came up with the (crazy?) idea of trying to convert a standard 65 to a 65 Wide (36" L x 24" W x 18" H).

My basic plan is to take the tank apart, removing one 36" x 24" side and placing a 36" x 18" side (possibly the same piece of glass cut down to fit) where the opening originally was.

So my questions are:
[list=1]
Will this work? (I.e. Am I crazy?)
Does anyone know the thickness of the glass on an AGA 65 gallon?
Has anyone out there done something like this and can give me some pointers?
[/list=1]

I'm assuming that an AGA 65 is built with the sides resting on the bottom. I'm planning to rebuild with the bottom between the sides and then possibly eurobrace.

Thanks in advance.

[hahnmeister]

The problem might be that the bottom is thicker than the front/back and often tempered as well... so placing the tank on its side would mean you are placing the tank on a weaker panel.

Shop around with the glass shops... there are multiple points depending on who supplies who. I went up the chain until I found the local distributor who supplies most of the other local shops, and their prices to me were 1/2 that of any others.

[GreenUku]

Hahn,

I haven't been able to look at a 65 in person since I came up with this idea, so I'm not sure what the glass thicknesses are.

I am planning to get more glass quotes, so maybe I'll find that I can build from scratch without having to donate any organs.

I'll have to see how the numbers come out, but it might still be cheapish to replace the side that would become the new bottom with a stronger piece (or have it tempered)...

Were you able to just ask shops where they buy their glass from?

[hahnmeister]

I called around and asked for suggestions on plate glass dealers... glass shops all seem to have their specialty... autoglass, plate, general, home, etc... Turns out that Milwaukee Plate Glass supplies alot of the other shops in town... so it was easy. They gave me a very low price compared to everyone else on starphire, and their response was that they supply most of the Starphire in the region... so they have the bets prices. They specialize in plate glass for showers, buildings, etc... so my requests were a piece of cake. They only charge me something like $15 to temper a parge piece too... so its well worth it.

[GreenUku]

I think I found out who supplies glass to everyone here, but they only do wholesale...

I was looking at Starphire earlier, but the best price I could find for 1/2" was about $24/ft^2 plus $0.43/in polishing... :eek1:

I'm going to go look at some tanks today to see what the specs are on the AGA's (though no one seems to have a 65 in stock).

[hahnmeister]

well... get a list of everyone they sell to, and call them up. Look for plate glass and kitchen&bath places. They use the most plate of course.

Yeah, that cost is outa order... its 2x what I pay retail. If I started an account with them, I would get it for even less (maybe half like with the acrylic?)... but Im not so sure I want a business liscence just for all the DIY stuff again.

[GreenUku]

I think I called everyone in town... Though the guy that the wholesaler told me to call is still supposed to get back to me with some numbers.

I was looking at GARF's DIY tank calculator (http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp), and they claim that (with Eurobracing) you can build a 65 gallon (36" L x 24" W x 18" H) using 1/4" glass. If that would really work, I could get just the plain glass for about $105 (at $4.80/ft^2). The glass shop I've been talking with the most said they smooth the edges of the 1/4" at no extra charge, whereas 3/8" and up requires finishing the edges (for $$).

I would prefer going with 3/8", but the finishing is what really gets you in the wallet. On about.com (http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/diytanksrefugiums/ss/diycustomtank_4.htm) they just say "make sure to sand the glass edges with emery cloth to remove the sharp edges", but at the glass shop they made it sound like the edges wouldn't be straight without finishing. :confused:

Any ideas?

[Icefire]

Go with 3/8, ask how much they charge to remove the sharp edge, no need to have it polished, it's not acrylic.

Locally I can get 1/4" @ 5$cdn/ft^2, but I had it at 3$ in the past.

[GreenUku]

Do you think 3/8" would be enough to go rimless/braceless?

[BeanAnimal]

1) the AGA does not rest the sides on the bottom! The bottom is placed between the sides and recessed just slightly.

2) As mentioned turning the tank on it's side will put the weaker pane down... something you do not want to do.

3) The top and bottom trim server a purpose... what are you going to do to replace it?

4) taking a tank apart without damage is not a trivial task.

Why not just give glass cages a call and have them build what you want. It will be a LOT less trouble. It will be warranted. It will be safe.

[hahnmeister]

Where do you get that from Bean? Every AGA tank I have ever had has the sides on the bottom piece of glass. I used to have 2 of the 65s... sides on the bottom (I know because I had them for 15 years and the bottom trim eventually fell off because they were moved around a bit as cichlid breeding tanks).

I have taken apart a few tanks in the past... the best way to do it is with a monowire. When these factory tanks are made, the glass pieces are clamped together, so Bean is right that they can be very difficult to seperate. I use some very strong, but thin monowire, or thread even (provided its strong enough), and feed it through in a bottom corner with a sewing needle. then you can work your way around the silicone... be prepared for it to snap a few times... the rough edges will wear on the wire/thread... but you will eventually get through. And once you get one side off, you can start prying the panels apart as you slide, which allows you to enlarge the bap between the panels as you slice.

FWIW, the extra work involved may not be worth it in the end. After you get everything apart, you still have to remove all the silicone with a razor and acetone. I would rather buy the glass.

1/4" IS all you need for an 18" high 65g as long as you use euro-bracing, not to mention, now you can consider a different size if you wish if you have the glass cut for you. You can also get the bottom drilled, etc.

[GreenUku]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9460973#post9460973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
1) the AGA does not rest the sides on the bottom! The bottom is placed between the sides and recessed just slightly.

Didn't realize that, I've never actually taken one apart, just going by what I've read on RC :)


2) As mentioned turning the tank on it's side will put the weaker pane down... something you do not want to do.

Agree, though the 24" side might be pretty sturdy...


3) The top and bottom trim server a purpose... what are you going to do to replace it?

I was thinking eurobraced on the top.


4) taking a tank apart without damage is not a trivial task.

This I believe!


Why not just give glass cages a call and have them build what you want. It will be a LOT less trouble. It will be warranted. It will be safe.

What's the fun in ordering a tank :D

I still don't know what to think of Glass Cages. The reviews seem really mixed...

[hahnmeister]

I have seen a few from Glass Cages and Miracles... Miracles is built a little heavier duty, but its generally overkill. Everyone local to me with a Glass Cages Tank is very happy.

[GreenUku]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461212#post9461212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister

1/4" IS all you need for an 18" high 65g as long as you use euro-bracing, not to mention, now you can consider a different size if you wish if you have the glass cut for you. You can also get the bottom drilled, etc.

So would 3/8" be enough to go rimless?

It's the latest fad! :lol:

[hahnmeister]

Consider this... its a fad. I have had rimless, and I consider it a pain in the butt. The best IMO, is a nice euro-braced tank.

My 60g cube is a DIY rimless tank I made... the snails can crawl right out, and fish jump out. Its too hard to put a canopy or parimeter on top because its such a narrow edge.

It looks cool, but functionally, its a nightmare... all you need is to chip the top edge with a rock and it can be all over.

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461212#post9461212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Where do you get that from Bean? Every AGA tank I have ever had has the sides on the bottom piece of glass. I used to have 2 of the 65s... sides on the bottom (I know because I had them for 15 years and the bottom trim eventually fell off because they were moved around a bit as cichlid breeding tanks). I think you will find that MOST glass tanks have the sides built around the bottom. This keeps the bottom from being stressed by the sides and the bottom trim protects the edges of the sides.

I have taken apart a few tanks in the past... the best way to do it is with a monowire. Yes piano wire, guitar string etc will work. Wear gloves and eye protection. You have a decent chance of breaking or chipping the panels.


Without any brace, you will still get some deflection on an 18" deep tank.

[BeanAnimal]

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/l/blcustomtank.htm
http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/technical/glassthickness/

[hahnmeister]

Bean, here we go again... I think you will find that most glass tanks have the sides resting right on the bottom.

Most mass-mfg'd tanks rest the sides on the bottom glass. There are many tanks that rest the side panels around the bottom, but they are usually custom and require having the bottom panel on a fully supported foam/plywood base. The reason they do this is because with the custom tanks, they are often large, and have one-off stands. Tanks like AGA are designed to have no support other than the parimeter, to allow the glass to absorb some impact in its bow. If the bottom was supported or placed directly on a hard surface, the glass would crack from impact much easier (I compare it to having someone punch you in the face when you are standing in an open area vs. getting punched in the face when you are standing against a wall... the fist hurts your face, and the wall hurts the back of your head too). There have been a few posts about people here for instance, who remove their bottom trim, or add plywood support inside the parimeter trim of their tank, and then the bottom cracks from a simple rock drop. For larger tanks, suspending the whole bottom like this is sometimes impossible due to size (an 8'x4'x3' tank would require a bottom over 1" thick and tempered if suspended like this).

The other reason is because of the surfaces that these custom tanks are placed on: The pressure of the tank can be distributed unevenly. Bumps, slight angles, inclines, etc... the tank may be uneven across such a large distance, if not right away, after time as the weight of the tank compresses the footings underneath. Because front and back (longer sides) are much like I-beams that are siliconed to the bottom, they prevent the bottom glass from bending a little to accomidate the uneven surface it may be placed on. By placing the side panels around the bottom, the bottom is allowed to float more, and be more accomidating to an uneven base, than if the side panels were on top of it, holding it down straight. With larger tanks, having the sides around the bottom prevents it from being as ridgid, allowing the individual panels to accomidate and float a little more than if they were all tied together into a more ridgid box.

Tanks like AGAs need to have the side panels on top of the bottom panel because if they didnt, the only thing holding the bottom up would be a small bit of the plastic trim that wouldnt be supported because the area where the plastic frame supports the glass is usually only about as wide as the front/back glass itself (so they can use the same piece for the top as well as the bottom)... not enough. The bottom panel would eventually give way through the bottom.

The list of tanks that I have had that have the sides resting on the bottom...

5.5g AGA
10g
15g
20H
29g
33L
40L
55L
30B
40B
50B
65B
75g
90g
120g
80XL
125g
180g
Oceanic 360g (8x2x3'h)

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461322#post9461322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/l/blcustomtank.htm
http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/technical/glassthickness/

Well sure Bean, most custom builds (esp over a certain size) will place the sides around the bottom because they assume you dont have the custom trim that AGA or another mass-mfg does. They are assuming you have a full bottom stand that wont allow the central area of the glass to be suspended like a plastic trim tank.

Garf does the same thing with its calculator.

But that doesnt mean that AGA does it that way, nor do most mass-mfg'ed aquariums.

[GreenUku]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461283#post9461283 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Consider this... its a fad. I have had rimless, and I consider it a pain in the butt. The best IMO, is a nice euro-braced tank.


So do you think there's any difference between overlapping and non-overlapping glass eurobracing?

I probably won't actually start on this tank for a few months. If money looks good, I might order a custom tank. Otherwise I'll probably build from scratch, unless I see a 65 in the paper and try to cannibalize.

While I have you here Hahn :) what bulb combo do you suggest for this tank? It's going to be a pennisula style tank, so three-side viewing. My plan is to run two 39W T5's with the IceCap 430 I have and get 4 Tek retro setups from Reefgeek with IceCap reflectors and regular ballasts (possibly upgrading later).



Thanks for all the input Bean and Hahn!

[hahnmeister]

Overlapping and non-overlapping glass eurobracing? Correct me if I'm wrong, the only thing I can think you are talking about is that you mean the euro-brace overlaps in the corners... and if this is what you mean, NO, you dont want to do this.

I have seen people do this, and it ends up with the pieces cracking in the corners, esp with acrylic. The euro bracing is intended to prevent the longer sides from bowing, thats all. It doesnt hold the corners together as much (okay, it does a teeny little bit, but thats not the point). As the long sides 'bulge' the corner will go ever so slightly out of 90degrees, and so if these overlapping pieces are bonded together, this places alot of stress on the corners, not along the whole strip.

Its okay if the euro braces are merely next to each other, bonded along the edges if anything to keep water from splashing out. But the idea is that you want them to breath a little in the corners. The corners will pull away from each other, and so let them. Overlapping/'overbonding' them can lead to the glass cracking where they overlap as they try to twist.

So on a 36x24 tank, you would want 2 pcs. 36x2", and 2pcs 18-20"x2" wide.

As for lighting, it sounds like a fine plan you have there.

IF you are going custom, you may consider other dimensions... no reason to stick with 36x24x18...

My dream reef at one time was a 36x36x18"h 100g. You can light it with one halide and a few 3' T5s, or two 250watt halides (find another 100g with 9 sq. ft. that you can only use two 250wattDE bulbs to light). Or, all T5s...

But if you are going with T5s... I must suggest... a 4' tank makes the most bang for the buck for T5s because 3' bulbs, ballasts, reflectors, etc... all cost the same as 4' bulbs... so you may as well go with the 4' bulbs.

FWIW, I would suggest a 75g over a 65g anyday. Its only a couple inches shorter, and that extra area comes in very useful. Then you can use 4' bulbs and get the most bang for the buck... and you dont have to make a custom tank. Last I checked, I could get 75g AGA pretty cheap.

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461488#post9461488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Bean, here we go again... I think you will find that most glass tanks have the sides resting right on the bottom.

Most mass-mfg'd tanks rest the sides on the bottom glass. There are many tanks that rest the side panels around the bottom, but they are usually custom and require having the bottom panel on a fully supported foam/plywood base. The reason they do this is because with the custom tanks, they are often large, and have one-off stands. Tanks like AGA are designed to have no support other than the perimeter, to allow the glass to absorb some impact in its bow. If the bottom was supported or placed directly on a hard surface, the glass would crack from impact much easier (I compare it to having someone punch you in the face when you are standing in an open area vs. getting punched in the face when you are standing against a wall... the fist hurts your face, and the wall hurts the back of your head too). There have been a few posts about people here for instance, who remove their bottom trim, or add plywood support inside the parimeter trim of their tank, and then the bottom cracks from a simple rock drop. For larger tanks, suspending the whole bottom like this is sometimes impossible due to size (an 8'x4'x3' tank would require a bottom over 1" thick and tempered if suspended like this).

The other reason is because of the surfaces that these custom tanks are placed on: The pressure of the tank can be distributed unevenly. Bumps, slight angles, inclines, etc... the tank may be uneven across such a large distance, if not right away, after time as the weight of the tank compresses the footings underneath. Because front and back (longer sides) are much like I-beams that are siliconed to the bottom, they prevent the bottom glass from bending a little to accomidate the uneven surface it may be placed on. By placing the side panels around the bottom, the bottom is allowed to float more, and be more accomidating to an uneven base, than if the side panels were on top of it, holding it down straight. With larger tanks, having the sides around the bottom prevents it from being as ridgid, allowing the individual panels to accomidate and float a little more than if they were all tied together into a more ridgid box.

Tanks like AGAs need to have the side panels on top of the bottom panel because if they didnt, the only thing holding the bottom up would be a small bit of the plastic trim that wouldnt be supported because the area where the plastic frame supports the glass is usually only about as wide as the front/back glass itself (so they can use the same piece for the top as well as the bottom)... not enough. The bottom panel would eventually give way through the bottom.

The list of tanks that I have had that have the sides resting on the bottom...

5.5g AGA
10g
15g
20H
29g
33L
40L
55L
30B
40B
50B
65B
75g
90g
120g
80XL
125g
180g
Oceanic 360g (8x2x3'h)

Han in a nutshell I call BS.


You just wrote a book trying to explain why I am wrong... Let me boil it down.

FIRSTLY! You make it sound as if I did not know that the bottom of glass tanks do not touch the stand! You then spend 20 sentences trying to explain the physics to me; I stopped reading after one.

OF COURSE I KNOW THAT the bottom of the tank is support off of the stand to keep it from being point loaded by imperfections in the stand. PERIOD. See 1 sentence (and an exclamation is all it took).

Now that we got that straight (I was never confused)....

I used to repair broken tanks when I was in junior high and high school. I HAVE had a LOT.. a WHOLE LOT of them apart. Mostly between 20 and 40 gallons but also a 65 and a 90. mostly AGA and PERFECTO. In every single one of them. YES EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. The BOTTOM PANE RESTED INSIDE OF THE SIDES.

I call BS Hahn. You want me to believe you took the trim off of every tank that you ever owned? BS.... I call BS.

Just to prove my point. I just yanked the trim off of an O'Dell 38 gallon tank. I BROKE THE DAMN THING (not on purpose) just to prove to you that your full of it this time!! I call BS hahn!

Here is the damn photo. I just proved a second point... that removing the trim from a tank can be very dangerous.

PLEASE NOTICE THE BOTTOM GLASS INSET BETWEEN THE VERTICAL PANES HAHN!
http://reeflogix.com/images/rc/odell.jpg

Honestly hahn... I enjoy a good debate with you sometimes... but this time your full of it and the "scientific" explanation and examples are as silly. This is when you drive me nuts. You back a silly claim with a bunch of techno talk that sounds good to the uninformed passerby but means utterly nothing to any of us who understand science. The word for it is BS. Bloviation at its finest.

I do not wish to fight about this anymore.... I now have a 29 gallon tank to repair because I let your nonsense get under my skin... It [the tank] was to go online this week as a remote display/prop tank in my fishroom but you irked me so bad with your science novel that I just had to pull the trim off of it and show you that you are wrong. That is the first trim I have pulled off of a tank in years... and WOW guess what they have not changed. Maybe you can tell me that the O'Dell is old and they do not make fish tanks like that anymore!

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461562#post9461562 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Well sure Bean, most custom builds (esp over a certain size) will place the sides around the bottom because they assume you dont have the custom trim that AGA or another mass-mfg does. They are assuming you have a full bottom stand that wont allow the central area of the glass to be suspended like a plastic trim tank.

Garf does the same thing with its calculator.

But that doesnt mean that AGA does it that way, nor do most mass-mfg'ed aquariums.


What in are you talking about Hahn? I posted the calculators to help the OP determine glass thickness. It had nothing to do with pane placement. If you still have questiuons about that.. then see the post above again.

[BeanAnimal]

I have to tell you that... it is almost 2 hours later and I am still wandering around the house mumbling "I call BS" and then swearing about the newly broken fish tank. The warden has asked me to stay out of the bedroom until I calm down. You have put me over the edge hahn...

I now have a broken 38G fish tank that was not broken at 10:00 PM
I will be sleeping on the couch with the dog.
I can not stop mumbling "I call BS", no matter how hard I try.
I have an urge to dance around (jig style) chanting that phrase.
I may likely end up in a rubber room.

Good grief...

[GreenUku]

I never realized my new tank plans would stir up such a reaction ;)

You've got to love reefing!

[BeanAnimal]

BTW hahn... your postulation about the trim and how it carries the weight and would fal is nonsense too.

I was going to post illustrations.. but I just do not have the energy and fear it would entice you to wander further down the wrong path.

The fact that aqauriums are made exactly how you state THEY CAN'T BE should be enough to put this trim failure postulate to rest as well.

Back to my pacing and ranting...

[GreenUku]

While you're still thinking about it...

If I took Hahn's advice and went with a 4 foot tank, do you think a 3/8" 4'x2'x18" tank with eurobracing would need a center brace as well?

[BeanAnimal]

That I could not tell you... The depth of the tank is only part of the equation. Depth dictates the amount of pressure against the pane. However the length of the side dictates how much deflection that pressure will cause. This deflection can put tremendous stress on even a eurobrace.

Those two sites I linked to have the math and tools to help you figure out how much deflection you may have, and how much is acceptable.

[hahnmeister]

Oh, okay, I thought you posted those links for tank construction with regards to the bottom panel, not the glass thickness.

Geez Bean, why you gotta take it all personal, like Im trying to prove you wrong. I dont care about YOU in particular that much, just the solution. You worked yourself up, not I.

Here's the bottom off my 40B...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/edgeof40B.jpg
Care to explain how physics doesnt allow for this now?

FWIW, maybe we are both right... perhaps its merely variation based on mfg. Every tank I have had was made like this.

I seem to remember something from another forum: years back about AGA making tanks like that until a certain point. Perhaps putting the side panels around the bottom is the way they used to be made? Ill admit, I dont have any tanks left that date back to before 1995 prolly. That one you have looks like it might be older?

[hahnmeister]

"BTW hahn... your postulation about the trim and how it carries the weight and would fal is nonsense too."

yeah, I think my picture covers that... its not nonsense, its the truth: The plastic trim doesnt fail and it does carry the weight. Im tellin' ya, I remember having 75g, 90g, 120g, and 180g tanks like this too. FWIW, the glass is just too thick to fit down in the plastic like the one you are showing. Ive only had to repair a few tanks due to cracks and failures, but when I bred tanganyikan cichlids, I had about 40 vats and tanks set up at any given point, as I would constantly move them around as needed depending on what I was keeping/breeding/etc. Anyways, the tanks moved around alot, and when not in use, I would put them on their sides to minimize dust inside the tanks. In this manner, I had many plastic trim pieces pop off, and every tank had a bottom like this.

GreenUku, a low 90 (a low 100g is considered 48x24x20) like that would need a cross brace with 3/8" glass, or at least euro bracing. You seem to be following the path that I did...

I ended up settling on 48x30x20"h... about 120g. Yeah, I cant light it as easily as before, or hope to cover the whole tank with just one 250wattDE, but thats where the light mover in the canopy comes in...

[BeanAnimal]

Ahh... look at that! Maybe I am just old and all new tanks are now made like yours. I honestly have NEVER had one apart that was.

*ahem* but that whole book of a post is still...

Anyway... I do not know what the date of that tank was but 95 or so is likely about correct. I think they were purchased by perfecto or all glass shortly after.

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9462680#post9462680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
"BTW hahn... your postulation about the trim and how it carries the weight and would fal is nonsense too."

yeah, I think my picture covers that... its not nonsense, its the truth: The plastic trim doesnt fail and it does carry the weight. Im tellin' ya, I remember having 75g, 90g, 120g, and 180g tanks like this too. FWIW, the glass is just too thick to fit down in the plastic like the one you are showing.

GreenUku, a low 90 (a low 100g is considered 48x24x20) like that would need a cross brace with 3/8" glass, or at least euro bracing. You seem to be following the path that I did...

I ended up settling on 48x30x20"h... about 120g. Yeah, I cant light it as easily as before, or hope to cover the whole tank with just one 250wattDE, but thats where the light mover in the canopy comes in...

I never said the plastic trim would fail... You did :)

BTW that is only the second O'Dell tank I have ever had apart. In both cases a pane broke when I removed the trim...

Bean

[BeanAnimal]

I am ready for a beer, but have to be on a jobsite in 4 hours. Anyway hahn, thanks for at least posting a photo... I guess we both get to learn something today. Now if you do not need that 40B, I am short a 38.

[hahnmeister]

"BTW hahn... your postulation about the trim and how it carries the weight and would fal is nonsense too."

Im assuming 'fal' means fail... I didnt say it. :) Okay, reaiding it over again, maybe Im not understanding what you posted just right.

Oooohhh, I think I see what you are saying here. No, its not BS though, I assure you. You can see how narrow that trim is at the thick part, so if the bottom panel was inside the side panels, there would only be about an 1/8" wide piece of that 1/8" thick plastic holding the panel in place. There would be little to nothing holding the bottom panel in place except for a small ridge of trim plastic which I can bend with my pinky it flexes soo much, but thats just the AGA design.

As for the tanks, yeah, my memory is very foggy on this one (pre-cichlid breeding years are foggy, think I used to keep arrowannas and big stuff...lol), but I think they changed over the years at some point. It took your pic of what looks like an older tank to make me think of it. I seem to remember a post in the cichlid-forum.com threads on this. Or, I think right around 1993 I was in HS still and had a part-time job at Hoffer's Tropic Life, where I helped assemble tanks (Hoffer's is huge and does everything). I seem to remember replacing damaged trim on some tanks, and the new trim didnt fit because of the glass... so yeah... I think there was a change.

FWIW, what is important here is that if you DIY a tank GreenUku, be sure to place the side panels around the bottom panel, unless you do what I am doing and get the bottom made of 1/2" thick tempered...lol. I think Bean and I can both agree on that being the better method for a DIY tank.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9462707#post9462707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I am ready for a beer, but have to be on a jobsite in 4 hours. Anyway hahn, thanks for at least posting a photo... I guess we both get to learn something today. Now if you do not need that 40B, I am short a 38.

Funny you should say that...

That tank is a giveaway as far as Im concerned. I took it down a couple months ago and have no use for it. Its a 40B with an internal sump/overflow on the side.... 18x8x16"h. Not drilled, but its built in. 40Bs are really about 45g, and so the main display is 35g, and the sump is just under 10g. You take a trip to Milwaukee sometime soon, you can have it.

I suppose the way I have it configured, with the teeth you can see and all... it would also make for a good sump.

[GreenUku]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9462680#post9462680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
GreenUku, a low 90 (a low 100g is considered 48x24x20) like that would need a cross brace with 3/8" glass, or at least euro bracing. You seem to be following the path that I did...

So the low 90 with 3/8" would be OK with just eurobracing?



I was set on 3' partly because I just assumed going up to 4' would mean much more expensive lights, but you were totally right on this one Hahn. I never noticed that the 48" T5 tek retro's were just $10(!) more for 4 bulbs than the 36" retro...

The other reason I was set on a 3' tank was because I was planning on going with a 40B for the longest time...

All this talk about a bigger tank is making my wife nervous :)

Thanks again. I'm glad you guys can do all of the tank dissection without me having too.

[BeanAnimal]

we just like to beat each other up.

[hahnmeister]

Bean is really my long lost older brother...

But yeah... 2' T5s, 3' T5's, and 4' bulbs, reflectors, fixtures... almost all the same price... so rather than 6x39 watt bulbs over a 40B, I had a 40L with 4x54wattT5s in the beginning and about the same wattage for less money. but in the end, the T5 lit tank ended up being the 40B in the bottom of a stand, so I had to go 6x39. My new tank and stand will allow for a 40L frag tank in the bottom though, with my 4x54wattT5s over it... a much better combo IMO.

[centraloandp]

I have never posted and you have no reference to believe me, but I have torn apart dozens of tanks made within the last five years and have never seen one with the sides resting on the bottom, it is always inside the sides. Online diy guides frequently tell you to rest the sides on the bottom, but fact of the matter is that tank manufacturers just don't do it, and if you read Q&A from people like bob fenner they generally don't recommend it either. Sorry hahn, but I just don't believe that you have torn apart all those tanks in the past.

[hahnmeister]

Perhaps its a brand difference... AGA puts theirs on the bottom, and the brand you are used to seeing (Perfecto? Great Lakes? LeeMar, etc..) just does it differently.

And no, I have only really torn apart 4 of my own tanks... the rest of the AGA's fell apart... lol. The tanks I worked on at Hoffer's did have problems with retrofitting trim, but I cant remember exactly why (I was a crazy kid, more interested in scoring the hot-chick's number than paying attention to work).

If you want, I can simply call Ritzlow @ AGA tomorrow (he owns it) and get try to get to the bottom of this (pun not intended). But who cares!?!?! Bean and I are both right, and as you said, DIY sites even list things both ways... so who knows. It seems there are enough of either method to make both methods good.

[Icefire]

I got an old 50G 36"Lx16.5"Wx20"H which is 3/8", bottom on inside.

Got a 33G Hagen, bottom on inside.

Personnaly I made 12x 50G 48"x16"x16" of 1/4" glass, rimless, trimless, bottom on inside.

Problem was near 1" bow on the middle top. But it held up fine! lol