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JohnL
03/14/2007, 09:56 PM
This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9479554#post9479554

chercm
03/14/2007, 09:56 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9479533#post9479533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
It sits in 7.5" of water, no turbulence near the pumps. Very calm. I have dual drains that come into bubble towers. The sump is a 75G. The skimmer section is 18"x 30" x 12" deep. The skimmer is on a platform to raise it up. I do have a 30G fuge chock full of macro.

The ER skimmer sat in the same spot

any pics?

sjm817
03/14/2007, 10:02 PM
Two digital cameras with dead batteries! Let me charge one up a bit

mavgi
03/14/2007, 10:05 PM
This thread split all the time :rollface:

sjm817

i wait to see picture to .

sjm817
03/14/2007, 10:11 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9764.jpg

mavgi
03/14/2007, 10:31 PM
sjm817


can you post picture for the other side of the sump ?

and where is the water from the fuge drain (is it behind the 2 tower )

sjm817
03/14/2007, 10:33 PM
This was with the ER skimmer. When i ran the ER, I had filter socks. I took them off and replaced with bubble towers when I put the ATI skimmer in. I could not change them without knocking the pumps off the BM skimmer.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/sumproom.jpg

Jim_S
03/14/2007, 11:05 PM
Very nice sjm!!! :thumbsup:

mavgi
03/14/2007, 11:07 PM
i don't know if you want to do it but if yes try this :


put the skimmer opposite the pump near to the baffles .

if you can put a temporary baffle (put just in 2 point silcon to catch it ) after the 2 tower make the skimmer area more smaller .

the water that drain from the fuge direct to the return pump area
and let it run one week and see if you got better result .

you can try first to change the skimmer position , but i believe after you will add baffle you will get different result you will see it in the color of the skimming .

i find out when i run the skimmer in small area (almost the size of the white acrylic base) i got the darker skimming color and thicker one .

i change back the position because i make all the time test and i don't have a place to work on this side .

sjm817
03/14/2007, 11:16 PM
Not sure I understand what you mean. Turn the skimmer around 180 so the pumps face the baffles? I can do that easily enough. I thought it would be better to have the pumps near the drains. Moving the fuge drain to the return section is not really something I want to do. Why would this matter?

Honestly, My ER skimmer worked very well in this same sump configuration and I dont see why the ATI shouldn't do the same.

chercm
03/15/2007, 06:32 AM
how come my BM 250 does not have so much foam at all ?

sjm817
03/15/2007, 06:47 AM
Ok. I turned the skimmer around 180. I put together a pipe coming off the output to move it farther from the baffles.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9767.jpg

Baalz
03/15/2007, 07:14 AM
Your water level is much higher in your skimmer then mine. Since the Tee hits the collection cup I cannot raise the stand pipe any higher to bring my water level up. That in my opinion is a very poor design. Why add an adjustable standpipe only to have it top out because it "hits" the collection cup.

Yes so far I agree my needlewheel skimmer outskimmed this skimmer by far. But I will give it the benefit of the doubt to see if it improves over time.

chercm
03/15/2007, 07:25 AM
how high did u raise the neck ?

my2girls
03/15/2007, 07:28 AM
I received my BM200 a few days ago. It is still breaking in so I can't judge it yet. My Deltec took one day to kick in, while the BM200 is on day 3 and nothing yet.

Can it be possible that no one "mesh" wheel is the same? Mine did not look very dense [very thin mesh that you can see through]. Conversely, all Deltec tradition needle wheels are almost identical. Hence more consistent performance from skimmer to skimmer.

Baalz
03/15/2007, 07:44 AM
my2girls
It will improve. The way it was explained to me is that the skimmer needs to build up a good bio film to allow the foam to rise.
Mine has improved over the last week but I still am not impressed.. yet.

Creetin
03/15/2007, 08:16 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9481436#post9481436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
I received my BM200 a few days ago. It is still breaking in so I can't judge it yet. My Deltec took one day to kick in, while the BM200 is on day 3 and nothing yet.

Can it be possible that no one "mesh" wheel is the same? Mine did not look very dense [very thin mesh that you can see through]. Conversely, all Deltec tradition needle wheels are almost identical. Hence more consistent performance from skimmer to skimmer.

I would say wait it out, and yes no 2 mesh's are exactly the same. There are variences on thickness, and maybe a titch on radius's, But nothing major.
I know my orp is around 400 Mv all the time now which it would normally be around 320 Mv with my old beckett, Also my po4 is 0.02 steadily now with no po4 removers, Which i always struggled before around 0.07 I feed daily, and added 2 more fish recently a dej tang and a black trigger. Nothing has changed, and they get a good belly full everyday.

skimmy
03/15/2007, 09:50 AM
sjm817,
in my humble opinion, i think you have your skimmer on too high of a platform, i have noticed that if we run our sump level right at the bottom of the white output hole, that we get waaay better performance out of the bm 200/250's.

Baalz
03/15/2007, 10:04 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9482611#post9482611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by koraltek
sjm817,
in my humble opinion, i think you have your skimmer on too high of a platform, i have noticed that if we run our sump level right at the bottom of the white output hole, that we get waaay better performance out of the bm 200/250's.

Could you measure the depth your talking about?

sjm817
03/15/2007, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the advice. I can certainly try that. I went with the recommended 7" - 8" depth. Will I be able to get the adjustment low enough? I have the wingnut style adjustment.

skimmy
03/15/2007, 10:07 AM
i'll take pics tomorrow and measure the exact level, i cant remember where the wing nut adjuster is set at...

jefathome
03/15/2007, 02:45 PM
OK... I have waited a while before I posted any reviews b/c I wanted to give the skimmer a chance to break in first. Tomorrow will be the end of week 3 though, so I feel confident posting something.

I have a BM200 (from K&M). It was tested 5 days up in SF before it was shipped to me here in SoCal.

First a little bit about the tank. I've got a 70g Tall (36w X 16d X 30in Tall) and a 30g sump... so about 100G total. IMO it is pretty heavily stocked with 5 wrasse (mix of fairy, flasher, and Leopard), 2 clowns, LM Blenny, yellow tang, and a fire fish. It is also PACKED with coral.

I feed heavily with Prime-2 Flake and a mix of frozen that I DIY'd from the asian market. 1 cube of frozen and about 2-3 pinches of flake per day. For the Corals, I use Reef Chili or Liquid Life Bio, and Coral plankton nightly.

Now, for the BM200...

Week 1
I got about 1 cup of skim that was dark tea colored. Rinsed the neck and put it back in.

Week 2
(actually about 8 days) I only got 2c of a coffee colored nog. Starting to get a little worried here...

Week 3
(this week) I got maybe a cup worth over about 4 days. light Coffee colored again. Now I'm really worried that I wasted my money, or that I should have heeded the advice of YoucanDoIt and went with a smaller model.

Then I decided to re-read the entire thread before I went and spouted off about how it sucks. What I had forgotten was that I had set the standpipe all the way down on day-1 b/c all the 1st round people were talking about how it would overflow all the time.

After setting the standpipe as high as I could (right where it would hit the collection cup), things were much better. I got skim within about an hour of emptying the cup and cleaning the neck. Within 24hrs, there was at least a cup or more of a medium/dark green-tea colored skim.

This skimmer CAN skim dry, but I think it prefers to skim a bit wetter (Duh.. like that hasn't been said before)

Anyway, I am 100% satisfied with the skimmer. It just pulled out in 1 day what my Remora took over a week to get. I'll bet there are a ton of DOC's in my tank right now from a year of remora use. Now the BM200 can start to kick some organic butt!!

cweder
03/15/2007, 03:37 PM
When the recirculating models come out some time this year. What will be the expected advantages.

Creetin
03/15/2007, 04:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9485531#post9485531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cweder
When the recirculating models come out some time this year. What will be the expected advantages.

I doubt there will be any besides having more room inside your sump. ;)
I bet it still reacts like it does with hands in the tank. My beckett was external and did the same thing my bm250 does.
I just think they react much faster than the other comparable skimmers much like the becketts react. I think bubbles get greatly interrupted with oils and such from food and hands.

jefathome
03/15/2007, 04:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9485531#post9485531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cweder
When the recirculating models come out some time this year. What will be the expected advantages.

I have no experience with externals, but from what I have been told, they have greater efficiency. Like if an in-sump is rated to 100G, the re-circ could ptobably handle 150g.

Or a 200g capacity in-sump = 300g Re-circ.

Just remember though, if it is external and it goes crazy and overflows (from say some Epoxy of red-slime remover) you will have a wet floor.
That is what happened to me with my old HOB Remora. :rolleyes:

chercm
03/15/2007, 06:38 PM
how come my BM 250 does not have any foam at all?

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8268/img0437go0.jpg


http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1018/img0439hr0.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3249/img0438ww0.jpg

Creetin
03/15/2007, 06:46 PM
Chercm, Can you raise your waterlevel to about 8 inches? Also try to raise the outflow tube as much as you can. I thonk i see that it can go up a little higher.
How old is it?

cweder
03/15/2007, 07:06 PM
Creetin, how does yours compare to your beckett. I am running a beckett now. Mine makes plenty of foam but the skim quality is nothing like a needle wheel or thread wheel. Mine either runs very dilute and wet or collects in the riser. Getting a cup full of dark skimate just does'nt happen.

Creetin
03/15/2007, 07:12 PM
I did get ok skimmate, But i could not get dark stuff from a bekett either. The darkest i could get was like a tea color. Mostly build up crud around the neck as i am sure your getting too with that skimmate.
I may have had too much waterflow and not enough air. I probably should have had dual becketts, But i was tired of the noise to fiddle with it.
Now all i hear is waterfall by the tank, and i would not bother with a beckett again. :)

Creetin
03/15/2007, 07:14 PM
And the skimmate with the bm is alot darker, and nastier! I never got smells like this from my beckett. ACKK I get roughly the same volume of skimmate, But almost twice as dark when i am running it somewhat wet.

mavgi
03/15/2007, 07:16 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9480172#post9480172 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Not sure I understand what you mean. Turn the skimmer around 180 so the pumps face the baffles? I can do that easily enough. I thought it would be better to have the pumps near the drains. Moving the fuge drain to the return section is not really something I want to do. Why would this matter?

Honestly, My ER skimmer worked very well in this same sump configuration and I dont see why the ATI shouldn't do the same.

I wish i have option to put the same size of your sump under my tank ;) (nice job you did there) .

first any skimmer you put in the sump the best way it's to position the pump as far as you can from the drain pipes.
in this area the water movement strong and drain with air and the performance of the pump (any pump ) will be lower then should be.

The ER skimmer work good but the different here it's the impeller (mesh) it's work different then (needle wheel) it's more sensitive (a lot more ) and even with the GEN X with the mesh impeller it's sensitive same as the SICCE . because of that the foam collapse more quick then a regular impeller , now when the skimmer pumps sit near to the drain area pipe the foam will collaps even not in feeding time but not all way down half and build up again this will cause less skimming performance in the collection cup.

you can keep the fuge drain as is if you want but i suggest to you to put a baffle after those tower because 2 reason (i wish i could do it in my sump) :

1. the food that drain thru the pipe will stay in this area and in the end more clean water will return back to the system (the skimmer can't catch all the detritus )

2. the water movement in this area strong even if it's look calm (i don't know what pump size return the water to the tank , but even 1200GPH pump with 2 drain in the same place will creat strong water movement) and if you will make it more gentle to the skimmer area (or pump ) the performance will be better and in smaller place the skimmer will handle with the water and kill the protien better.


i also suggest to take of the elbow from the skimmer and let the water drain direct from the T line for better performance with this skimmer , the best way it's to find the correct water level for it since you don't have problem with noise of splash water.

you also need to know that if the skimmer clean in the past month your system the skimming result will reduce since the water crystal clear and there is not much to skim (because of that i add more 4 fish to my system and want to add more) .


i hope you will get better performance because i have the same skimmer as you in the past and the result can't compare and i was little confuse when i read that you have the same result with the ER .



best regards
michael

my2girls
03/15/2007, 07:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9482611#post9482611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by koraltek
sjm817,
in my humble opinion, i think you have your skimmer on too high of a platform, i have noticed that if we run our sump level right at the bottom of the white output hole, that we get waaay better performance out of the bm 200/250's.

Are you saying that you get the best performance when the sump water level is at the wingnut?

Does anyone notice that when you tighten the wingnut that more water leaks through the joint? In other words, tightening the wingnut tilts the standpipe so more water comes out defeating the purpose of the standpipe. Kinda frustrating.

cweder
03/15/2007, 07:43 PM
Creetin, mine is a dual beckett and I can adjust with tons of air and it still skims basically the same or worse. Just for kicks I hooked up a ASM 1x in my sump and a day later it was pulling out darker skimmate then my twin beckett. I think this is just the way becketts work. Becketts seem to pull out plenty of stuff but its not the same quality.

So the recirculating model is external only. I thought they were working on one for the sump too.

sjm817
03/15/2007, 08:00 PM
Here is the latest. I dropped the skimmer down. It is now in ~ 10" of water. As you can see, the outlet is submerged a little. The only reason it is this way is I have the skimmer on some PVC pipe I had kicking around. If I have to raise it up more, I'll have to make something up, but this is good for a test.

What I do notice is the bottom of the skimmer is now full of bubbles where before it seemed the swirl of bubbles stayed more toward the top of that chamber.

Yes, I love my basement sump setup! Water changes are so quick and easy it's amazing.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9782.jpg

mavgi
03/15/2007, 08:28 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9487812#post9487812 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
What I do notice is the bottom of the skimmer is now full of bubbles where before it seemed the swirl of bubbles stayed more toward the top of that chamber.


this is correct when you put the pump deep in water then the volume will be stronger when the pump near to surface less volume .



put attention it's not flood , i put mine on 4 like this Container

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/63047339.jpg

sjm817
03/15/2007, 08:35 PM
Yes, I'm waiting for it to kick in and expect it may overfill/flood the cup. I'll have to raise it up another inch or so.

On another note, as I posted earlier, I ran filter socks when I had the ER skimmer. They are good at killing bubbles, and catching the silty stuff that is now collecting in the sump. I did not have this with the socks. It is a bit of a pain since they need changing every 3 - 4 days.
When running the socks, the water goes through them, instead of under like the bubble towers. Do you think that would be a better way to run? now that the pumps are away from the drains, I could change the socks without knocking the pumps off the skimmer.

my2girls
03/15/2007, 08:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9488096#post9488096 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
this is correct when you put the pump deep in water then the volume will be stronger when the pump near to surface less volume .



Why is this? The deeper the water, the more pressure and the stronger the pump pulls? Does this change the water to air ratio within the skimmer?

sjm817
03/15/2007, 09:06 PM
I raised it up an inch. Now it sits in 9" of water and the outlet is not at all submerged. It will take a bit for it to get going again so that i can see how the level is.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9783.jpg

lvpd186
03/15/2007, 09:14 PM
sjm817 - have you noticed a difference after removing the pvc from the output? I added a 90deg. elbow on mine to quite the splashing noise and I noticed a big change in performance (not in a good way). Since the end of the elbow was under water I turned it till there was an opening and things got much better. There was a difference in bubble size (smaller now) and I had to drop my exit down lower. I wonder if I should just remove the elbow altogether and just deal with a little splashing noise?

sjm817
03/15/2007, 09:19 PM
Too early to say. My elbow was never under water though. If the skimmer does work better, I changed a few things. Turned it around 180, put it deeper in the sump and removed the elbow. It will be hard to say what made the most difference (if there is one).

mavgi
03/15/2007, 09:55 PM
sjm817 :

yes the filter sock are better and the skimmer will perform better when you run them back . (i wash the filter sock with hot water before i put them on the pipe )

you must to get a better result i can't believe not , you need to find the right position but the result must be better. by the way you remember what i sent you in the mail if something not run better i will tell you what you can try to .


my2girls :

yes and you can make easy test take a 5 gallon backet put the pump deep and feel the flow pull up the pump you will get less flow . i am working on mod a different pump and i am testing the pump in different level to see where i can get the better result like that i know in what level this pump will perform better .

chercm
03/16/2007, 12:39 AM
how come mine does not have any foam and skimate at all ? pls help

bond007069
03/16/2007, 03:23 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9489706#post9489706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chercm
how come mine does not have any foam and skimate at all ? pls help

Be patient, it looks like a new skimmer, not broken in yet

lvpd186
03/16/2007, 04:07 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9489706#post9489706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chercm
how come mine does not have any foam and skimate at all ? pls help

From you pics it looks like your skimmer is running good. Post some more info about your setup. Also if your skimmer is brand new it will take a little time for it to break in.

mavgi
03/16/2007, 05:34 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9489706#post9489706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chercm
how come mine does not have any foam and skimate at all ? pls help


as the other member told you to the skimmer break in but look good .

if you want you can take it out and run the skimmer in hot water
and put it back again you will short the time of the break in but as it's look in the picture you will start to see foam soon.

Baalz
03/16/2007, 06:50 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9489706#post9489706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chercm
how come mine does not have any foam and skimate at all ? pls help

This is just a guess since I am just a noob. But I see you don't have the top on your silencer pipe.
My guess is your getting way to much air which is causing excess turbulence. I was under the impression that small hole was there for a reason.

chercm
03/16/2007, 06:57 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9490159#post9490159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
as the other member told you to the skimmer break in but look good .

if you want you can take it out and run the skimmer in hot water
and put it back again you will short the time of the break in but as it's look in the picture you will start to see foam soon.

i added kent marine strontium in and after some time the foam starts coming out

Baalz
03/16/2007, 06:59 AM
Maybe this will help some of us who are having problems getting the performance they desire with our 200s and 250s.

What is your water level with foam collapsed having the riser all the way down?

What is yoru water level with foam collapsed having the riser all the way up?

What depth is your skimmer running in sump?

Baalz
03/16/2007, 07:01 AM
chercm

Where is the cap to your air intake riser?

Looking at your picture this is where I get frustrated with mine. My water level is no where near that high in my skimmer ever. Mine is like 4" lower.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8268/img0437go0.jpg

my2girls
03/16/2007, 07:06 AM
Baalz- If you get a chance I would love to see a pic of your threadwheel. You may get more answers as to what is going on with your skimmer.

jefathome
03/16/2007, 10:17 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9490430#post9490430 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
This is just a guess since I am just a noob. But I see you don't have the top on your silencer pipe.
My guess is your getting way to much air which is causing excess turbulence. I was under the impression that small hole was there for a reason.

I'm not too sure about that...
The hole on top is only as big as the airtube running to the pump, so even if there was no silencer, the air-tube would still restrict it.

jefathome
03/16/2007, 10:31 AM
Double Post... Sorry.

mavgi
03/16/2007, 11:19 AM
i run my skimmer without the silencer sometime to without problem :)

chercm :

when you add additive any skimmer will not perform well the quick way to solve it is to take out the cup and let to the skimmer run 2-3 hour without the cup (this will clean the skimmer quick from the additive) after that put the cup back and let it break in again .

when i put new filter sock or add additive i do it .

jackson6745
03/16/2007, 07:21 PM
Any BM250 users here able to get tiny bubbles in the neck like other high end NW skimmers?

No matter how I adjust my BM 250 the bubbles are still kind of big in the neck. I am getting the feeling that there maybe too much air for the body size of the skimmer?

Has anyone experimented with air valves or maybe using only 1 pump?

jackson6745
03/17/2007, 02:09 PM
Anyone getting smaller bubbles from it?

cweder
03/17/2007, 04:55 PM
What will be the dimensions of the BM300?

mavgi
03/17/2007, 08:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9500541#post9500541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jackson6745
Anyone getting smaller bubbles from it?

without any problem , you can put if you want needle valve on each air pipe or easy way to put a nozzle of silcon tube like this one in the picture on top of the silencer and you will get a smaller bubble . you will need to match the water level and to cut the head of the nozzle as it's look like if not it will clog the air and the pump will shat off (since the pump pull a lot of air)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1966.jpg

sjm817
03/17/2007, 09:13 PM
mavgi, thanks for all the help. I'm back to using socks and it seems to help

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9790.jpg

This is after 24 hr
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9791.jpg

If you want to adjust airflow, one of these valves fits perfectly in the top of the silencer.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9792.jpg

mavgi
03/17/2007, 09:40 PM
i am happy to see it's work for you and i am sure with the time the performance will be better it's a great skimmer and what you can do with those 2 little pump it's unbelievable :lol:

E-A-G-L-E-S
03/17/2007, 09:45 PM
why would socks help the skimmer? i would think more organics getting trapped in socks would inhibit the BM from making as much skimmate as possible?

sjm817
03/17/2007, 09:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9503285#post9503285 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E-A-G-L-E-S
why would socks help the skimmer? i would think more organics getting trapped in socks would inhibit the BM from making as much skimmate as possible?
That's what I thought too. Look up a few posts...

I had bubble towers (4" PVC pipes) that forced the water exit out the bottom. This seemed to somehow decrease the amount or organics that the pumps had access to. With the socks, the water flows though them instead out the bottom. I ran the socks when I had the ER RS250 and it also worked really well.

E-A-G-L-E-S
03/17/2007, 09:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9503321#post9503321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
That's what I thought too. Look up a few posts...

I had bubble towers (4" PVC pipes) that forced the water exit out the bottom. This seemed to somehow decrease the amount or organics that the pumps had access to.

Wonder why, since if the organics are being pushed down towards the skimmers pump intake more than just sitting on top layer of sump it would help produce more skimmate?
Sometimes things just make no sense in this hobby to me, lol.

And i'm trying to learn as much as i can before i get a 160(love the fact that it's effluent will be submerged...all my other previous skimmers would perform horribly when i'd 'T' them and run it under the waters' surface.

sjm817
03/17/2007, 09:56 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9503341#post9503341 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E-A-G-L-E-S
Wonder why, since if the organics are being pushed down towards the skimmers pump intake more than just sitting on top layer of sump it would help produce more skimmate?
Sometimes things just make no sense in this hobby to me, lol.

Take alook at this pic. The pumps are higher than the bottom of the PVC pipes...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9767.jpg

You would think it would still work fine, but I cant argue with results. More skimate is more skimate. Besides, mavgi knows what he is talking about!

jackson6745
03/18/2007, 06:54 AM
OK now I am impressed. I put an airvalve on the top of the silencer and WOW. Micro fine bubbles all the way up the neck. Thanks for the suggestions.

chercm
03/18/2007, 08:42 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9504517#post9504517 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jackson6745
OK now I am impressed. I put an airvalve on the top of the silencer and WOW. Micro fine bubbles all the way up the neck. Thanks for the suggestions.

any pics to show ?

jackson6745
03/18/2007, 01:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9504984#post9504984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chercm
any pics to show ?

Sure, I'll take pics later tonight

cweder
03/18/2007, 04:21 PM
Help me choose between BM250 and internal H&S 200-2x1260 for a 450 gallon tank with 75 gallon fuge and 70 gallon sump. Want to make it good for SPS and Fish ( yellow tang, chevron tang
Naso tang, Blue throat trigger, and about 20 smaller fish) Or I can just keep my MRC-4 dual beckett run by a Sequence Barracuda going. MRC is working but the pump is more noise than I wanted and electrical savings especially with the BM250 would be nice. Heat has been no problem with the Barracuda.

jackson6745
03/18/2007, 04:51 PM
Cweder a 450g is a big tank. I would stick with the beckett :)

If I had to choose between the H+S + BM I would choose the BM. Half the price and works. The BM is a little bit of a pain because there is no set way to run it. Everyone seems to be doing different things. Once ATI comes up with a final design it will be idiot proof. For now you have to use a little thinking and may DIY.....worth the $$ savings though.

derek
03/18/2007, 06:34 PM
I have the 200 2x1260 on a 125 and I really doubt it could handle a 300 let alone a 450. I used to have a MRC-2 with a single beckett and the tank looked better with that than the H&S. Unfortunately, the noise(mostly the PCX-55) was an issue.

If the noise is an issue I would try the BM-250, because I don't think the H&S is going to be enough if you have SPS with all of those fish. However I would be really surprised if the BM is going to be adequate either.

FWIW

Derek

sjm817
03/18/2007, 07:38 PM
The 200 2x1260 has its issues. The 200mm body is too small for 2 pumps. The 250 2x1260 addresses this with a larger 250mm body. The BM250 is quite a bit less $$ which makes it pretty attractive. That is a big system though. 550G+ volume.

sjm817
03/18/2007, 07:38 PM
The 200 2x1260 has its issues. The 200mm body is too small for 2 pumps. The 250 2x1260 addresses this with a larger 250mm body. The BM250 is quite a bit less $$ which makes it pretty attractive. That is a big system though. 550G+ volume.

cweder
03/18/2007, 08:48 PM
I appreciate your thoughts. Maybe I will just add a BM200 or BM250 to what I already have. Your input is helpful. Thanks

mavgi
03/19/2007, 06:33 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9509626#post9509626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cweder
I appreciate your thoughts. Maybe I will just add a BM200 or BM250 to what I already have. Your input is helpful. Thanks

wait for the BM300 i beieve it will be very good for your system.

my2girls
03/19/2007, 07:06 AM
I have had my BM200 running 1 week now. It looks similar to the guys that have been getting no foam. Besides getting a new skimmer, I also changed out my glass sump for a new acrylic sump at the same time. I hope this is why I'm having problems. I know you folks will say be patient, but I know my Deltec APF600 would start skimming immediately if I put it back in.

Creetin
03/19/2007, 07:16 AM
Why dont you run the 200 in a tub and throw skimmate in there from the deltec? If i had the option of 2 skimmers i would have done that till it broke in, Unfortunately i didn't.

skimmy
03/19/2007, 08:23 AM
this water level is perfect, and exactly what i was talking about earlier, our's in the store worked so much better with water level being right there... i still need to take pics, we were slammed this weekend.




<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9487812#post9487812 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Here is the latest. I dropped the skimmer down. It is now in ~ 10" of water. As you can see, the outlet is submerged a little. The only reason it is this way is I have the skimmer on some PVC pipe I had kicking around. If I have to raise it up more, I'll have to make something up, but this is good for a test.

What I do notice is the bottom of the skimmer is now full of bubbles where before it seemed the swirl of bubbles stayed more toward the top of that chamber.

Yes, I love my basement sump setup! Water changes are so quick and easy it's amazing.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9782.jpg

my2girls
03/19/2007, 08:37 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9511678#post9511678 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
Why dont you run the 200 in a tub and throw skimmate in there from the deltec? If i had the option of 2 skimmers i would have done that till it broke in, Unfortunately i didn't.

Part of changing the sump was to get rid of the gravity feed. I wanted a simplified set-up. I would have to rig a feed pump to the Deltec.

mavgi
03/19/2007, 09:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9512137#post9512137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
Part of changing the sump was to get rid of the gravity feed. I wanted a simplified set-up. I would have to rig a feed pump to the Deltec.

in each system it's break in different time , in my case i just wash the skimmer in hot water and put it in after 3 hour the skimmer start to build foam , in other system it's can take more time i suggest to try to put it in hot water in the bath for 15 minute and then to try to put it back again in the sump (wash the pump , the impeller , cup and the O ring) put the pump as far as you can from the drain pipe and see if the skimmer start break in maybe it will not and this because you change the sump to and need more time.
you can try it or to wait till it will do it alone :)

skimmy
03/19/2007, 09:42 AM
sjm817,
what brand/size is that air valve and where did you get it??
looks bigger than the deltec/euro gardena air valves



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9503028#post9503028 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817

If you want to adjust airflow, one of these valves fits perfectly in the top of the silencer.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/IMG_9792.jpg

sjm817
03/19/2007, 09:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9512039#post9512039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by koraltek
this water level is perfect, and exactly what i was talking about earlier, our's in the store worked so much better with water level being right there... i still need to take pics, we were slammed this weekend.
I dont have it that way right now. I have the outlet just above the water line.

sjm817
03/19/2007, 09:49 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9512589#post9512589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by koraltek
sjm817,
what brand/size is that air valve and where did you get it??
looks bigger than the deltec/euro gardena air valves
It is a lot bigger. I forget where I got it. I'll look into it later.

E-A-G-L-E-S
03/19/2007, 12:14 PM
sjm....your pm box is full

bsk997
03/19/2007, 12:30 PM
Please let us know what size and brand air valve you used when you get a chance sjm817.
I'm getting a lot of fine bubbles but they are rather large and would like to be able to adjust it to get small fine ones.

Mine's still not pulling a lot out afer a week and half of running but hopefully its still breaking in. I have mine in about 7" of water with the riser almost all the way up.

sjm817
03/19/2007, 03:48 PM
These ones 3/8" (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/8322)

http://www.aquaticeco.com//images/items/MSK558_rgb.jpg

bsk997
03/19/2007, 07:15 PM
Thanks for the tip.
Wonder if petco or petsmart have these.

Would hate to spend ~$8 in shipping for a $2 product. lol

chercm
03/20/2007, 08:26 AM
anyone tried connecting the BM250 with a ozoniser?

sjm817
03/20/2007, 09:43 AM
Here is the current setup: As before, I'm running the filter socks. I also redirected the outflow from the fuge and the skimmer to the first baffle. The idea is to give the skimmer access to only "dirty" water and move the filtered water toward the return area without getting reskimmed.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_1239.jpg

This is 3.5 days worth of skimate with a cleaned cup and clean socks. A bit on the wet side, but that is how these skimmers seem to work. I have the riser a bit lower now, I'm going to empty/clean it and see how the next few days go.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_1240.jpg

E-A-G-L-E-S
03/20/2007, 09:59 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522085#post9522085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I also redirected the outflow from the fuge and the skimmer to the first baffle. The idea is to give the skimmer access to only "dirty" water and move the filtered water toward the return area without getting reskimmed.


This is 3.5 days worth of skimate with a cleaned cup and clean socks. A bit on the wet side, but that is how these skimmers seem to work. I have the riser a bit lower now, I'm going to empty/clean it and see how the next few days go.


I think that's a very good idea


That is wet.

Baalz
03/20/2007, 10:14 AM
2.5 weeks and still not enough significant skimmate for me to feel pleased.

180g with about 30gs of sump water. Skimmer sits in 8" and I have the riser all the way up.

Just do not feel like I am getting any performance out of this pump. Should I have went with a 250? With two pumps maybe it would get a higher water level in skimmer ......

Lt. Hotpants
03/20/2007, 10:21 AM
Do you guys think the bubblemaster 200 is overkill for a 90 gal SPS? it's heavily stocked, but i could save a couple hundred bucks by going with a tunze 9010 (the skimmer needs to be under 20" tall) ...

lvpd186
03/20/2007, 10:41 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522283#post9522283 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
2.5 weeks and still not enough significant skimmate for me to feel pleased.

180g with about 30gs of sump water. Skimmer sits in 8" and I have the riser all the way up.

Just do not feel like I am getting any performance out of this pump. Should I have went with a 250? With two pumps maybe it would get a higher water level in skimmer ......

There must be something wrong with yours. Several pages ago Mavgi showed how one pump could run a BM250 (by capping the other pump input). So if one pump can run a 250 it should def. be able to run a 200. Take your pump off and take some pics of the thread wheel, the air intake, etc. Maybe someone will see something missing or not right. BTW even if you had your riser at the lowest setting you should still see bubbles in the neck. If I remember your pics from before your getting stuff collecting on the inside of the skimmer body; def a sign that something is not right.

lvpd186
03/20/2007, 10:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522347#post9522347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lt. Hotpants
Do you guys think the bubblemaster 200 is overkill for a 90 gal SPS? it's heavily stocked, but i could save a couple hundred bucks by going with a tunze 9010 (the skimmer needs to be under 20" tall) ...

I would say you would probably be better off with a BM150.

sjm817
03/20/2007, 11:12 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522283#post9522283 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
2.5 weeks and still not enough significant skimmate for me to feel pleased.

180g with about 30gs of sump water. Skimmer sits in 8" and I have the riser all the way up.

Just do not feel like I am getting any performance out of this pump. Should I have went with a 250? With two pumps maybe it would get a higher water level in skimmer ......
I agree that something is wrong. Can you post clear, detailed pics of the setup?

Lt. Hotpants
03/20/2007, 12:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522508#post9522508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
I would say you would probably be better off with a BM150.

150 is much too tall :(

sjm817
03/20/2007, 12:24 PM
There is no more BM150. There wil be a new BM160 (160mm body). The 150 is taller than a 200? I've never seen one.

rpeeples
03/20/2007, 01:40 PM
Does anyone know where member "UCanDoIt" is these days? I haven't seen any post from here in sometime...

rpeeples
03/20/2007, 01:40 PM
Does anyone know where member "UCanDoIt" is these days? I haven't seen any post from her in sometime...

rpeeples
03/20/2007, 01:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522498#post9522498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
There must be something wrong with yours. Several pages ago Mavgi showed how one pump could run a BM250 (by capping the other pump input). So if one pump can run a 250 it should def. be able to run a 200. Take your pump off and take some pics of the thread wheel, the air intake, etc. Maybe someone will see something missing or not right. BTW even if you had your riser at the lowest setting you should still see bubbles in the neck. If I remember your pics from before your getting stuff collecting on the inside of the skimmer body; def a sign that something is not right.


Was it discovered that when the pump was removed the hole was then blocked in order for the skimmer to maintain bubble production in the neck? I should go back and check his post....


So how are the owners of Bubble Masters liking there skimmmers thus far?

Has anyone else put a gate-valve mod on their skimmers?

lvpd186
03/20/2007, 02:11 PM
It was kind of hard to see in the pic, but he did put some plastic in to the hole of the missing pump. So far I have nothing bad to say about my bm250. I think it has preformed great.

mavgi
03/20/2007, 02:11 PM
Baalz :

i don't know why it's not work for you :confused:

can you post your picture for : sump where the skimmer sit and i want to see the wheel impeller to .

do you have a flow meter to read how much air the pump pull ?



Lt. Hotpants :

i suggest to wait till we see the new BM160 how it's look like and some info about the size of the skimmer body and collection cup (i read some but it's better to see what will release )

sjm817
03/20/2007, 02:21 PM
mavgi, thanks again for your help with my setup. It seems to be working well. Any comments on my current setup?

Creetin
03/20/2007, 02:40 PM
I would invest 10 to 15 dollars and get an airflow meter on ebay.
I picked up a 0-100 scfh meter for 15 bucks.
It really is cool to have, and you can see for yourself if the mesh needs cleaning or replacement. I still need niether, and i was in the first shippment.
I would suspect your getting some blockage in the airline or partial blockage of the pup intake. Pleas likr mavgi suggested get some detailed pics i am sure he could help ya out.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9522283#post9522283 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
2.5 weeks and still not enough significant skimmate for me to feel pleased.

180g with about 30gs of sump water. Skimmer sits in 8" and I have the riser all the way up.

Just do not feel like I am getting any performance out of this pump. Should I have went with a 250? With two pumps maybe it would get a higher water level in skimmer ......

mavgi
03/20/2007, 02:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9524328#post9524328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
mavgi, thanks again for your help with my setup. It seems to be working well. Any comments on my current setup?

My run the same way , i use small extension (because the space)

when i try to run the water after the baffle the water level in the skimmer area was low then the pump area so i direct it to the baffle but not cross .


the preform look ok and hope it will keep like that the skimmer can't handle all the water volume but because of that i like bigger skimmer .

by the way the skimming color look good to and even it's wet it's better the skimmer will clean the water more then it's dry , don't forget the color look light also because the BM skimmer are made base on crystal clear acrylic not like the other ones that use acrylic gray color (and make the skimming look more dark ).

Baalz
03/20/2007, 04:24 PM
Here are some pictures I took tonight. I do have a dwyer flowmeter on my ca reactor can you explain in detail how to hook it up to BM200.

With standpipe at lowest position

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4432.jpg?t=1174428879

Standpipe at the highest position, which hits the collection cup and goes not further.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4433.jpg?t=1174428943

Same as above with collection cup removed
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4430.jpg?t=1174428983

The impeller.. the Blue tie is one I had to add because the one was broke upon arrival.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4435.jpg?t=1174429303

Picture of the outside of the pump. I noticed this area when I unpackaged pump.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4437.jpg?t=1174429385

Don't get me wrong this skimmer still does foam up. These pictures are with the foam collapsed.

E-A-G-L-E-S
03/20/2007, 04:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9523983#post9523983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rpeeples
Does anyone know where member "UCanDoIt" is these days? I haven't seen any post from here in sometime...

She was moved on :(

sjm817
03/20/2007, 04:29 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4430.jpg

That is way not right. Although it looks like it is making good bubbles, the water level is far too low. When you pull the cup off, it should be overflowing the body like crazy.

Where did you buy it from?

Baalz
03/20/2007, 04:42 PM
Seems like I got stuck with a $550 lemon.

sjm817
03/20/2007, 04:49 PM
Where did you buy it? If you bought a defective piece of equipment, you should not be stuck with it.

Can you post a pic of the pump completely assembled on the skimmer body?

lvpd186
03/20/2007, 04:55 PM
I agree, when I remove my collection cup bubbles flow over the top at a steady rate. If I put my riser at the highest level it would over-flow the cup. I would contact whoever you bought it from. Maybe they can replace the pump or something. Good luck, I hope they make good on it.

Creetin
03/20/2007, 05:10 PM
Is the reducer fittings on the pumps feed side? There should be a black plastic pvc fitting that reduces the diameter of the ID of the feed side of the pump.

Baalz
03/20/2007, 05:31 PM
Purchased the skimmer from Blue Ribbon Koi. I called them after the first week reporting the exact same thing here. They did not want to replace the pump.

Picture of pump attached.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4441.jpg?t=1174433370


Now here is a picture with the riser tube as far up as it will go. Remember the riser hits the collection cup so there is no way I could run it this high with the collection cup on. Unless I want to risk breaking the acrylic work.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4448.jpg?t=1174433456

mavgi
03/20/2007, 06:00 PM
Baalz :

if it's air flow meter check if connect to it feeting in the top . you need to connect the air pipe on the top fitting and then to read the # .

did you buy it new with melt shroud :eek1: ?

is the mesh wider then the yellow wheel impeller and if you can count how much layer you have on this wheel ?


there is some way to get better result without to take raiser till the top .

first let me know if you can read the air flow .

sjm817
03/20/2007, 06:04 PM
That looks normal with the cup off. I dont know what the deal is why you have to have the riser up that high to make it work right. Can you put it in the sump deeper?

I also got my skimmer from BRK. I'd be disappointed in them if they didn't help out with this. I would also call Greg @ Reefgeek and see what he says. In addition post this on a separate topic on the Reefgeek forum. Oliver P. may be able to help out.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4448.jpg

Creetin
03/20/2007, 06:13 PM
Mavgi it could be that i dont see it, But that reducer does not seem to be onf the pumps intake.
Baalz is there a piece that fits in there? Do you know what i am talking about?
This black piece here.
http://usera.imagecave.com/winner/BM200Pump2.jpg

cweder
03/20/2007, 06:28 PM
Not sure when it will be out, but the BM300 sounds like it will use 3 pumps be 12 inch wide and 25 inch tall and maybe include some special features to improve performace.

bond007069
03/20/2007, 06:54 PM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/494c40fe.jpg






http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/P1010046-1.jpg

bond007069
03/20/2007, 07:01 PM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/a9370aab.jpg


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/6dad4e9f.jpg



http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/178bbce7.jpg




http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/P1010070-1.jpg

rpeeples
03/20/2007, 07:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9524243#post9524243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
It was kind of hard to see in the pic, but he did put some plastic in to the hole of the missing pump. So far I have nothing bad to say about my bm250. I think it has preformed great.

I thought the hole was covered as well.

I am also pleased with the performance of the skimmer once I installed the gate-valve. It will be interesting to see folks who purchase the BM250 with the gate-valve already installed...it looks to be nice and compact unlike the gate-valve I am using.

Sad to see UCanDoIt "moved on" and will not be posting on RC any longer....

Baalz
03/20/2007, 07:19 PM
Here is that shot
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4449.jpg

Let me not get to misleading here.. I took those pictures right after rinsing out the collection cup. After running a little bit it does raise up higher then whats shown.
The question is if you have riser up like I do in those photos does it still overflow even though you may of had your hands in your tank just before.

mavgi
Sorry but I am having a hard time understanding what you mean.

Baalz
03/20/2007, 07:22 PM
No my skimmer has never had fine bubbles such as this rise up the column. If it ever does get that high in column the bubbles are quite large at that point

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/494c40fe.jpg

lvpd186
03/20/2007, 07:57 PM
Baalz - On my skimmer, with the collection cup removed and on the lowest output setting, it will constantly overflow fine bubbles regardless of if I have my hands in the water. You shouldn't have to have yours on the highest setting for that to happen. Also on the lowest setting mine will have fine bubbles up the neck like the photos above. For these reasons I still think there is something wrong with yours. I agree that you should try and get in touch with Oliver.

weege1
03/20/2007, 08:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527246#post9527246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
Baalz - On my skimmer, with the collection cup removed and on the lowest output setting, it will constantly overflow fine bubbles regardless of if I have my hands in the water. You shouldn't have to have yours on the highest setting for that to happen. Also on the lowest setting mine will have fine bubbles up the neck like the photos above. For these reasons I still think there is something wrong with yours. I agree that you should try and get in touch with Oliver.

My BM200 (running 3 days) is like Baalz bubbles don't spill out when the cup is remover. I guess its breaking in? Is this normal when the unit is not broken-in yet? Will they start to rise as it breaks-in?

I do have a Dywer and get a reading of 18..

Thanks,
Lou

my2girls
03/20/2007, 08:50 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4437.jpg?t=1174429385

My pump looks like this too. Anyone else?

mavgi
03/20/2007, 08:52 PM
Creetin :
the black piece it's to create air pocket and i think he have but different one .


cweder :
the BM300 will be out soon and no it's not with 3 pump this skimmer will be a new tech and performance i believe in a month or 2 we will see this beast :lol:

Baalz:

sorry about my lang , those fine bubble that you see on bond007069 after the skimmer run well and get washed it's can be on any BM skimmer . i will try to help as much as i can.....

and by the way i agree with sjm817 Greg from reef geek a wonderful person and he his the main ATI dealer in the USA contact him (i think just the shroud damage in your pump) and i believe even if Mr' oliver will see it he will change it right away .



weege1 :

since you measure the pump i want to know if it was in the skimmer body or out ?

what depth is your skimmer in the sump ?

i think it will be easy to help after you will answer thanks in advance.


rpeeples:

i run my BM250 without the gate valve and i am happy with it as is

i am glad to hear you happy with the performance now .

E-A-G-L-E-S :
may i ask what do you mean "Ucandoit move on" she is one of the favorit member here in RC and always try to Help to evryone she can , i hope everything ok with her.

mavgi
03/20/2007, 08:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527796#post9527796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4437.jpg?t=1174429385

My pump looks just like this too. Is this not good?

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: No it's wrong did you get the skimmer from the same place as Baalz get his ?

my2girls
03/20/2007, 08:57 PM
Mine came form Ed at KMA in San Fransisco. My BM200 has been running poorly also.

rpeeples
03/20/2007, 09:04 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527796#post9527796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4437.jpg?t=1174429385

My pump looks like this too. Anyone else?

Is this the pump that came on your 250? If so, did it look like this right out of the box?

Something looks like it melted the plastic ....am I seeing this correctly? My pumps do not have this appearence...

mavgi
03/20/2007, 09:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527861#post9527861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
Mine came form Ed at KMA in San Fransisco. My BM200 has been running poorly also.

can you post picture of your pump to ?

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:06 PM
Yes, right out of the box. I figured it was part of the manufacturing process.

Baalz I think we got a bum batch of pumps.

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:06 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527945#post9527945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
can you post picture of your pump to ?

Coming right up. Let me bust out the camera.

weege1
03/20/2007, 09:07 PM
since you measure the pump i want to know if it was in the skimmer body or out ?

*I measured with the pump attached to the skimmer.

what depth is your skimmer in the sump ?

*8.5 inches

i think it will be easy to help after you will answer thanks in advance.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527842#post9527842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: No it's wrong did you get the skimmer from the same place as Baalz get his ?

Mine looks like that too although not as bad. I got it 3 days ago from Aquarium Gallery in NH. I think its only cosmetic does not look it it would inpact performance.

weege1
03/20/2007, 09:11 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527937#post9527937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rpeeples
Is this the pump that came on your 250? If so, did it look like this right out of the box?

Something looks like it melted the plastic ....am I seeing this correctly? My pumps do not have this appearence...

Yup mine looks like that just not as bad.. Plasctic looks melted. I don't believe that it impacts performance since there is no damage on the inside...

mavgi
03/20/2007, 09:12 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9527967#post9527967 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
since you measure the pump i want to know if it was in the skimmer body or out ?

*I measured with the pump attached to the skimmer.

what depth is your skimmer in the sump ?

*8.5 inches

i think it will be easy to help after you will answer thanks in advance.



Mine looks like that too although not as bad. I got it 3 days ago from Aquarium Gallery in NH. I think its only cosmetic does not look it it would inpact performance.

Yes as it's look from the picture if there is no holes it will not affect of the performance but it's defect product and need to be changed i am sure all those ppl with this typs of pump will be recall (it's look to me just the shroud from the picture)

is your baffle 8.5" or the skimmer sit on something under ?

weege1
03/20/2007, 09:18 PM
its s rubbermaid stock tank no baffles. it sits on the bottom on the tank in 8.5 nches of water...

My main tank drains into a small tank that was my old sump (20 gal) this tank gravity feeds the stock tank.. the skimmer is in the stock tank... There is zero turbulance in the stock tank...

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:21 PM
Here you go.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/rgallinoto/DSCN1481.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/rgallinoto/DSCN1478.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/rgallinoto/DSCN1479.jpg

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:22 PM
meshwheel
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/rgallinoto/DSCN1480.jpg

mavgi
03/20/2007, 09:31 PM
my2girls

tell me please if i am correct the damage it's out the pump ?

there is no holes inside or thru the damage ?

how much layer of mesh you have on the impeller ?

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:35 PM
The damage seems mostly on the outside of the pump.

I don't know what you mean about how many layers???

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:36 PM
If I were to guess, the mesh looks 1/4" (.25 inches) thick.

weege1
03/20/2007, 09:47 PM
my2girls

mine looks like yours from the mesh to the melting on the pump (although mine is not as extensive.

i think mine has three layers of mesh although it hard to tell for sure..

mavgi
03/20/2007, 09:51 PM
i did some measure 18 LPM it's not bad .

i want to know if you can put the skimmer in the 20 gallon sump at 9- 9.5" in the sump for a day or 2 to see if you will get different result ?

if you can do it then before you transfer it , put it in the bath and wash the skimmer with hot (very hot) water include all the part you have . also for the test take out the "O" ring and check there is no leak from the skimmer if there is a leak put on the cup something that will hold it and it will stop the leak.

weege1
03/20/2007, 09:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9528367#post9528367 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
i did some measure 18 LPM it's not bad .

i want to know if you can put the skimmer in the 20 gallon sump at 9- 9.5" in the sump for a day or 2 to see if you will get different result ?

if you can do it then before you transfer it , put it in the bath and wash the skimmer with hot (very hot) water include all the part you have . also for the test take out the "O" ring and check there is no leak from the skimmer if there is a leak put on the cup something that will hold it and it will stop the leak.

It wont fit in the 20g tank although I can try and raise the level in the stock tank.

Prior to putting it on the display I gave in a bath is hot water and left it running in that water for a few hours.

I don't have an o-ring on the skimmer? the cup slides into the top of the body of the skimmer. i thought only the BM250's had o-rings? I have a BM200.

my2girls
03/20/2007, 09:59 PM
I don't have an o-ring on my BM200 either.

mavgi
03/20/2007, 10:01 PM
is the " stock tank " new or old ?

there is option to increase the water level there ?

weege1
03/20/2007, 10:01 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9528436#post9528436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
I don't have an o-ring on my BM200 either.

Ya I was told no o-ring on the 200's.. hmmm

weege1
03/20/2007, 10:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9528445#post9528445 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
is the " stock tank " new or old ?

there is option to increase the water level there ?

It's old been there the whole time..

I can increase it by added more fresh SW. it would be a PIA but I can do it.. I was told 6-10" would be fine?

mavgi
03/20/2007, 10:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9528446#post9528446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
Ya I was told no o-ring on the 200's.. hmmm

maybe no need "o" ring on that i run my 250 at the begine without the 'O' ring to without problem.

what is the depth in the skimmer area in your sump ?

weege1
03/20/2007, 10:06 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9528476#post9528476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
maybe no need "o" ring on that i run my 250 at the begine without the 'O' ring to without problem.

what is the depth in the skimmer area in your sump ?

Its 8.5"

mavgi
03/20/2007, 10:23 PM
weege1 & my2girls :

please try to put the skimmer in 9.5 -10" depth for day or 2 i want to see if there is any different.

IMO there is no need to raise the raiser till the end and the first things is to fit this skimmer in the correct depth .

i don't test the BM200 but if both of you have the same water level as balaaz show in his picture then the skimmer not sit in the correct depth.

when it's happen the pump not perform well and by raising the raiser it will not solve the problem when the skimmer will be in the correct depth the pump will feed more water to the skimmer body and the foam will build better because the pump will perform better.

i can't know the correct depth you need because i never play with it (BM200) but if we want to see some different result then the first thing is to try to find the right water level for the skimmer in your sump (since it's mesh impeller in every skimmer it's can perform with some different result maybe for one it's will be good in 9.5" and for the other one 10")

if you can try to do it first and let it run for day or 2 i think we will start to be on the track , when you do it watch on the skimmer it's will not flood the cup and adjust the raiser to .

Edit: if one of your skimmer new it's can take more time because the skimmer need to break in , but if the other skimmer is old then we should start to see some different result and this will be a good sign

my2girls
03/21/2007, 06:10 AM
Ed from KMA read the thread after a follow-up e-mail to me. He is sending me a gate valve mod to raise the water level in the skimmer. Hopefully that does it. Thanks for everyones help.

weege1
03/21/2007, 06:53 AM
mavgi,

I will raise the water level today to 10" and go down as needed from there. This skimmer is new (today will be the 4th day running) but I assumed that the water level would be higher in the skimmed. When I pull off the collection cup nothing at all spills over even at the highest level.

Thanks or your help, I will report back once this test is completed...

Baalz
03/21/2007, 07:42 AM
I initially had my skimmer in a 10" water depth with the same performance if not worse.

Both Reefgeek and BRK told me that was my problem because the pump was trying to push to much water. So that is why I have mine in 8" now and still runs poorly.
Im pretty convinced my pump has something wrong with it. Kinda like how my Mak4 pumps get on my beckett skimmer thats on another system. After awhile with all the back pressure they loose their "umph" and I have to replace them.

weege1
03/21/2007, 10:44 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9530344#post9530344 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
I initially had my skimmer in a 10" water depth with the same performance if not worse.

Both Reefgeek and BRK told me that was my problem because the pump was trying to push to much water. So that is why I have mine in 8" now and still runs poorly.
Im pretty convinced my pump has something wrong with it. Kinda like how my Mak4 pumps get on my beckett skimmer thats on another system. After awhile with all the back pressure they loose their "umph" and I have to replace them.

My pump is pushing air as I get a readng for 18ish. maybe not pushing enough water, not sure.. Mine has only been running for 4 days but from the get go the water does not rise into the neck of the skimmer. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do...

weege1
03/21/2007, 10:44 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9530344#post9530344 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
I initially had my skimmer in a 10" water depth with the same performance if not worse.

Both Reefgeek and BRK told me that was my problem because the pump was trying to push to much water. So that is why I have mine in 8" now and still runs poorly.
Im pretty convinced my pump has something wrong with it. Kinda like how my Mak4 pumps get on my beckett skimmer thats on another system. After awhile with all the back pressure they loose their "umph" and I have to replace them.

My pump is pushing air as I get a readng for 18ish. maybe not pushing enough water, not sure.. Mine has only been running for 4 days but from the get go the water does not rise into the neck of the skimmer. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do...

weege1
03/21/2007, 10:49 AM
You know my real question is this at this time, maybe others with working BM200 can chime in...

When you first get the unit running there is a long breakin process and that is fine and understood. What I would like to know if where should the water/bubble level should be when at the lowest level from the get go? Should it be in the neck right from the start? I don't see how over time the water level is going to rise?

Baalz
03/21/2007, 10:49 AM
Well I contacted BRK first thing this morning about my problems and proposed having my pump replaced.

Now I am stuck waiting for them to contact the distributer to see if they feel they should do so. And how they should handle it.

Not a happy camper..

sjm817
03/21/2007, 11:04 AM
I think you guys with BM200 issues need to start a new thread on the ReefGeek forum. The BM250 owners are not having these problems. Hopefully Greg and Oliver P. will take notice.

Baalz
03/21/2007, 11:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9531784#post9531784 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I think you guys with BM200 issues need to start a new thread on the ReefGeek forum. The BM250 owners are not having these problems. Hopefully Greg and Oliver P. will take notice.


Been there done that.
Oliver didn't seem to concerned.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1067871

sjm817
03/21/2007, 11:19 AM
I also found that sump water level does not have a huge affect on water level in the skimmer body on my BM250. Other in sump skimmers I have used have been much more sensitive to water level.

I would start a new thread and all of the BM200 owners that are having this issue need to post of the issues. There seems to be a common problem.

You should all also give Greg a call @ ReefGeek and let him know what is going on since he is "ATI USA".

weege1
03/21/2007, 11:20 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9531867#post9531867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
Been there done that.
Oliver didn't seem to concerned.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1067871

Yo know with more users having similar problems we will prob get more attemtion. I would update your post and I will chime in as well.

my2girls was having the same types of problems so they can chime in as well...

Baalz
03/21/2007, 11:38 AM
At this point I would be willing to upgrade to a 250 just so I can have a functioning skimmer.
LOL and I can't even get a reply on a replacement pump.

weege1
03/21/2007, 11:49 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532085#post9532085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
At this point I would be willing to upgrade to a 250 just so I can have a functioning skimmer.
LOL and I can't even get a reply on a replacement pump.

I understand your fustration. I have only had mine breaking in for 4 days so I will wait it out... I just don't see how my water level is going to rise without intervention. The manual says keep the riser at the lowest level to prevent overflowing, ha, now way in hell its going to overflow with the level its at now. This has me wondering/worried because I interpert that as meaning the water level should be much higher than it is..

my2girls
03/21/2007, 11:55 AM
To BM200 owners:

When the riser tube is all the way up and tightened with the wingnut, does water spew out of the riser tube joint? Mine does. If we are losing water there, then wingnut is a poor design. Hopefully the gate valve mod with alleviate this problem.

If the gate valve does not work then it has to be the pump. We shall see.

Baalz
03/21/2007, 12:08 PM
We should not really have to apply a gate valve mod to a new skimmer to have it function well.
I am a little hesitant to use a gate valve because when I added it to my needlewheel skimmer it made it very prone to flooding.

ricka
03/21/2007, 12:13 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532243#post9532243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
To BM200 owners:

When the riser tube is all the way up and tightened with the wingnut, does water spew out of the riser tube joint? Mine does. If we are losing water there, then wingnut is a poor design. Hopefully the gate valve mod with alleviate this problem.

If the gate valve does not work then it has to be the pump. We shall see.

My BM 250 does that too. IMHO an O-Ring is needed on that tube. I built my own riser using 1.5 inch pvc and an o-ring and no water spewing. Metric pipe is a pita to get here in the US.

--Rick

Baalz
03/21/2007, 12:22 PM
I had talked to Greg at reefgeek over a week ago with my concerns. At that time I was told that it may be my mesh wheel and he would be sending me out some mesh wheels that he just received.

Today just getting off phone with BRK, I am told that Greg will ship me the mesh wheel when he receives it within a week.. Hmm thought he already had it...

BRK is sending me out today the mesh material from a 250 they have in the store for me to replace mine with.

When I spoke to Greg over a week ago that is then that I discovered the wire tire hanging loose on my impeller pad. It may be very possible that my mesh wheel is slightly disfigured from my pump running a week with it like that.

One thing I did learn is that Greg will not replace any pumps unless they don't run. If it runs he says they are fine.
I'm not a big fan of that statement knowing quite well pumps and or impellers do go bad.

weege1
03/21/2007, 12:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532243#post9532243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
To BM200 owners:

When the riser tube is all the way up and tightened with the wingnut, does water spew out of the riser tube joint? Mine does. If we are losing water there, then wingnut is a poor design. Hopefully the gate valve mod with alleviate this problem.

If the gate valve does not work then it has to be the pump. We shall see.

Yes mine does the same exact thing..

When you have your rised all the way down where is your water/bubble levels?

derick75
03/21/2007, 12:30 PM
My BM 200 was of the 1st shipments, It has been runing in my sump for over 3 months. My pump shroud has the "melted" look as well. Also I have never been able to get fine bubbles in the skimmer neck, I have ran the skimmer in 10 inches down to 6.5 inches of water with no change. I have to run my skimmer with a gate valve, If I dont, the bubble breaking level will be within a half inch of the top of the neck. Here is a picture I took this morning this is the darkest skimate I have been able to get with this skimmer To tell you the truth I am disapointed with the skimmer.....Derick
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/113795asa.jpg

weege1
03/21/2007, 12:43 PM
You know we now have 4 users with BM200's with the same symptoms/problems.. I think a thread should be opened up on the reefgeek forum and each of us should chime in. We need this to be visible to Greg since he is ATI in the US.

MarineGirl411
03/21/2007, 12:52 PM
My2Girls,
If you have any problems please contact Ed. He is absoultely the best person to deal with. I purchased a BM150 from him and he offers the best customer service suppport. Please do not hesitate to contact him for help. He helped me and gave me the best support as of yet. He is a very trustworthy and good peson. I only wish he sold more than just skimmers because I'd give him all my business.

Baalz
03/21/2007, 01:05 PM
You can be sure they are aware of this thread and others like it. I have told my vendor about it.

Doing something about the growing list of displeased BM200 owners is something I do not think they want to handle nor can.

My needlewheel skimmer from GEO outperforms this skimmer by leaps and bounds. I can put in a blue colored additive in my system and the needlewheel will have blue skimmate the next morning. It had sucked it all back out of system. This BM200 does nothing. Not a hint of blue in the skimmate.

my2girls
03/21/2007, 01:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532734#post9532734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MarineGirl411
My2Girls,
If you have any problems please contact Ed. He is absoultely the best person to deal with. I purchased a BM150 from him and he offers the best customer service suppport. Please do not hesitate to contact him for help. He helped me and gave me the best support as of yet. He is a very trustworthy and good peson. I only wish he sold more than just skimmers because I'd give him all my business.

I agree, Ed is great. He has bent over backwards for me. I have been in contact with him via e-mail. I feel sorry for the BM200 owners who didn't deal with Ed. I have supreme confidence in him. I know I will have no problems getting this rectified.

bond007069
03/21/2007, 02:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532351#post9532351 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
needlewheel skimmer it made it very prone to flooding.

Because your bubble level is to high, this is a common with any skimmer not tunned correctly

weege1
03/21/2007, 02:52 PM
bond007069

Looking at your pictures your bubble level is where all the BM200's should be... Do you use a gatevalve mod to get it that high? I can see that your riser is not all the way up. I cannot get the bubbles in the neck of the cup even with the riser at the highest level. That is the problem a few of us are having and its getting fustrating.

my2girls
03/21/2007, 02:56 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532507#post9532507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
Yes mine does the same exact thing..

When you have your rised all the way down where is your water/bubble levels?

Mine is like Baalz's... when the riser is all the way down you can take the cup and look into a black hole of nothing.

weege1
03/21/2007, 03:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9533791#post9533791 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
Mine is like Baalz's... when the riser is all the way down you can take the cup and look into a black hole of nothing.

Yup me too.... I know its not air draw cuz I have a Dwyer and get a reading that is inline with what is expected. It's like the pump is not pushing enough water along with that air.

I E-Mailed Greag at Reefgeek and told him about the problems we are all having and how they are all similar. Pointed him to the thread..

I would really like to get feedback from other BM200 owners and where there bubble level level is with the riser at the lowest position.

klam114
03/21/2007, 03:08 PM
hey my2girls: i am glad you got the skimmer from ED. i bought one from him not too long ago and it is perfect. call him and he will help you with any problem you have with the skimmer.

derick 75: I would suggest you ristrice the air a bit to get finer bubbles. try it out.

rpeeples
03/21/2007, 03:08 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532828#post9532828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
You can be sure they are aware of this thread and others like it. I have told my vendor about it.

Doing something about the growing list of displeased BM200 owners is something I do not think they want to handle nor can.

My needlewheel skimmer from GEO outperforms this skimmer by leaps and bounds. I can put in a blue colored additive in my system and the needlewheel will have blue skimmate the next morning. It had sucked it all back out of system. This BM200 does nothing. Not a hint of blue in the skimmate.

I can not speak for the BM200 as I have the BM250 however where did you purchase your skimmer from? I would go back to this dealer and either ask them either of two questions.....

Could you replace my skimmer with a new one which has been properly tested and performs according to specs?

or

Could you please refund the purchase price plus shipping cost or provide support on how to make my skimmer operational?

IMHO.....

klam114
03/21/2007, 03:14 PM
sorry about the spelling but

derick 75. restrict the air so you get finer bubbles.

If any of you got a skimmer from KMA (ed) in San Francisco. just contact him and he will help you with any situation you have with the skimmer. I have no doubt that he will do everything he can to get the performance you are looking for from the skimmer. Great honest person.

to those who need a ball value to raise you breaking point and didn't purchase from ed. he might sell one to you. (i've heard). you would need to contact him.

weege1
03/21/2007, 03:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9533920#post9533920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114

to those who need a ball value to raise you breaking point and didn't purchase from ed. he might sell one to you. (i've heard). you would need to contact him.

That right there is my problem.. Why such a larch difference on the same skimmer. Why do some users have to add a ball/gate valve to raise the breaking point when other dont need this at all? I want an official answer as to how it should operate. If it is sold standard without a gate/ball valve then it should not be required to raise you bubble level, it you have to go to that extreme to get it to work then something has to be wrong.

bond007069
03/21/2007, 03:36 PM
I use two 90 degree eblows and a few inches of PVC tubing

It is very simple, i dont understand why people have so many issues with the concept.

Obstruct the outflow and the water level in the skimmer will rise. (tunning the skimmer)



Here is a pic of the few cents in PVC parts. Sorry for the bad quality, but you get the idea.
I find the gatevalve to be cumbersome, and this method works better IMO



http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/79610f05.jpg

weege1
03/21/2007, 04:01 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534080#post9534080 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bond007069
I use two 90 degree eblows and a few inches of PVC tubing

It is very simple, i dont understand why people have so many issues with the concept.

Obstruct the outflow and the water level in the skimmer will rise. (tunning the skimmer)



Here is a pic of the few cents in PVC parts. Sorry for the bad quality, but you get the idea.
I find the gatevalve to be cumbersome, and this method works better IMO

I know exactly what your talking about I modded the heck out of my G3 before just taking the plung and upgrading. Did the recirc gate valve to tweak the bubble level etc.

I just dont get why I have to mod a 500+ skimmer :confused: to get it to work right...

I have already played with it a little to get get the result I would need but the only way to do so is by moding... I thought the riser tube was added for this shortcoming? Are all teh BM owners moding there skimmers output to get the desired results?

bond007069
03/21/2007, 04:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534289#post9534289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1


I just dont get why I have to mod a 500+ skimmer :confused: to get it to work right...



My thoughts are if you wanted to run a very low waterlevel in the sump, then additional measures to raise the level in the skimmer need to be taken.

If you run a higher water level (in the sump), then the simple riser tube maybe all that is needed.

When my skimmer performs circles around other skimmers i have owned, or seen on RC, the few bucks in PVC parts, make me smile.

Nonetheless at a fraction of cost for other skimmers :lol:

RGibson
03/21/2007, 04:19 PM
[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9533878#post9533878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rpeeples
I can not speak for the BM200 as I have the BM250 however where did you purchase your skimmer from? I would go back to this dealer and either ask them either of two questions.....

Could you replace my skimmer with a new one which has been properly tested and performs according to specs?

or

Could you please refund the purchase price plus shipping cost or provide support on how to make my skimmer operational?

IMHO..... [/QUOTE Ron the dealer should provide support for the skimmers and return there money .The BM 200 needs more RD.

derick75
03/21/2007, 04:31 PM
I have tried restricting air flow with air valves. I tried several different types and played with different amount of air flow, nothing works the bubbles are the size of jelly beans and has been for months.

Baalz
03/21/2007, 04:34 PM
No
We are stuck applying band aids to a skimmer that is not living up to its expectations. From what I gathered when my dealers spoke to RG there was no replacements forthcoming other then Mesh material.

weege1
03/21/2007, 04:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534547#post9534547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
No
We are stuck applying band aids to a skimmer that is not living up to its expectations. From what I gathered when my dealers spoke to RG there was no replacements forthcoming other then Mesh material.

Exactly one should not have mod this skimmer to get it to work as it was designed to. If the thing needs a gate valve then add one standard and correct the price appropriately. The whole, its cheapest bang for the buck should not apply as I wouldn't mind paying more for something that works out of the box.

If I really wanted to go cheap I could have built my own skimmer and mesh moded my own Gen-x Pumps.

my2girls
03/21/2007, 05:12 PM
What gets me is that I did a ton of research and heard only great things about the Bubblemaster skimmers. I ordered one and now everyone is coming out of the woodwork with horror stories. I took my Deltec APF600 offline to replace it with a BM200. I must be the biggest ephan putz on Reef Central. I ordered the BM200 to simplify my sump AND get better performance. ATI should refund our money. I hate to see KMA and other local distributors get hurt, they went on good faith that the skimmer would perform.

sjm817
03/21/2007, 05:16 PM
Oliver P. is posting on the ReefGeek forum in the thread that Baalz has started. You should all post there and get to the bottom of this.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1067871

weege1
03/21/2007, 05:22 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534826#post9534826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
What gets me is that I did a ton of research and heard only great things about the Bubblemaster skimmers. I ordered one and now everyone is coming out of the woodwork with horror stories. I took my Deltec APF600 offline to replace it with a BM200. I must be the biggest ephan putz on Reef Central. I ordered the BM200 to simplify my sump AND get better performance. ATI should refund our money. I hate to see KMA and other local distributors get hurt, they went on good faith that the skimmer would perform.

Oliver responed to Baalz on the Reefgeek forum... It's interesting...

"Right now, I can only imagine that you have a pump of the first generation of BM 200, but the skimmerbody (with a lower position of the T-fitting) of the last generation. I dont know why this happend, but please contact Reefgeek again in order to sent you a complete new treadwheel with a bigger diameter. In this way you get much more power and you can see the real potential of a Bubble Master. You only need an impeller (threadwheel) with a bigger diameter."

Is he referring to the diameter of the wheel the thread is attached to? One thing all our pumps have in common is they all have the melted plastic does this mean we have old gen pumps with new gen bodies like Baalz? That would make sense.

Can you measure the diameter your threadwheel not the mesh but the wheel itself? It stinks that we have to do all this digging to get answers but I think we may be onto something.

my2girls
03/21/2007, 05:32 PM
I am aware of that thread. I have posted in it. That forum gets very little attention.

weege1
03/21/2007, 05:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534999#post9534999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
I am aware of that thread. I have posted in it. That forum gets very little attention.

I did as well..

How do you know you have a second Gen threadwheel? I would like to check mine.

lvpd186
03/21/2007, 05:52 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534910#post9534910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
Oliver responed to Baalz on the Reefgeek forum... It's interesting...

"Right now, I can only imagine that you have a pump of the first generation of BM 200, but the skimmerbody (with a lower position of the T-fitting) of the last generation. I dont know why this happend, but please contact Reefgeek again in order to sent you a complete new treadwheel with a bigger diameter. In this way you get much more power and you can see the real potential of a Bubble Master. You only need an impeller (threadwheel) with a bigger diameter."

Is he referring to the diameter of the wheel the thread is attached to? One thing all our pumps have in common is they all have the melted plastic does this mean we have old gen pumps with new gen bodies like Baalz? That would make sense.

Can you measure the diameter your threadwheel not the mesh but the wheel itself? It stinks that we have to do all this digging to get answers but I think we may be onto something.

I hate to hear you guys having problems, but I will say that mine (BM250) has been great and I haven't had to mod anything on it. I leave the output on the lowest setting and it performs great. I believe way back towards the beginning of the thread there was some talk about the original pumps and the thread wheel diameter. I think it started with the difference in voltage between Germany and here or something like that. The original pumps had a bigger thread wheel (just the mesh part, not the whole assembly). When the first units came to the US they were having problems (mostly with skimming way too wet I believe). The solution was to have a smaller mesh pad and it worked great. If you have some of the first run pumps they might need to have that larger mesh pad to work properly. So I think what Oliver is saying all you might need to do is put a bigger mesh pad on the pump (sorry I can't say what size, i can't remember and I don't want to give you the wrong info, maybe Oliver can clarify that). IMO I think you should get the newer pumps, but if that doesn't happen try the bigger mesh pad. I hope that makes sense.

rpeeples
03/21/2007, 06:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534826#post9534826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by my2girls
What gets me is that I did a ton of research and heard only great things about the Bubblemaster skimmers. I ordered one and now everyone is coming out of the woodwork with horror stories. I took my Deltec APF600 offline to replace it with a BM200. I must be the biggest ephan putz on Reef Central. I ordered the BM200 to simplify my sump AND get better performance. ATI should refund our money. I hate to see KMA and other local distributors get hurt, they went on good faith that the skimmer would perform.

My2Girls,

There was a lot of biasness on this thread some time ago. As a result I believe one particular member is no longer invited to post on any thread or RC for that matter. I posted what I thought an objective review of this skimmer on page 30-35 of this thread before splitting.

With this said I also experienced issues when I purchased this skimmer however I was able to overcome the issues the skimmer presented.

You are not a putz and I empathize with you. I would recommend speaking directly with the dealer who sold you your skimmer and have them resolve asap. Without knowing your setup and skimmer environment I do not want to steer you in the wrong direction.

If I can be of further help just shoot me a PM. Good luck :)

Ron Peeples

bsk997
03/21/2007, 06:41 PM
I'm having the same exact problem you guys are.
I was working with Ed and was thinking that it had to do with the skimmer still breaking in. It's been about 3 wks since I've received my skimmer and I still have to raiser my riser all the way up in order to get any bubbles over the skimmer cup.

I had my skimmer in about 7" of water before and the bubbles were about 2.5" from overflowing the skimmer body itself with the riser all the way down.
I now have in about 9.5" of water and its at about 1" away from overflowing with the riser all the way down.
I now have the riser tube so that the T is hitting the bottom of the skimmer cup. I'm getting some rather large bubbles about 1/3 of the way up and we'll see how it goes from there.

I too feel very frustrated with this skimmer. I did a lot of research on skimmers and thought I was getting a great skimmer thats comparable to a BK but at a fraction of the cost. Had I known I was going to have this many problems, I would have probably gotten a H&S or Deltec. Sigh....
Sorry, just had to let out all my frustrations!

Baalz
03/21/2007, 07:09 PM
It sure does seem that most of us having these issues purchased these skimmers within the last month.
Kinda coincidental wouldn't you think?

Creetin
03/21/2007, 07:11 PM
I feel for you guys, I really dont know what to say.
I know greg and oliver are stand up guys, and will fix this for you.
I have the first Bm wave 250. It works great, and could not be happier. I feel for you guys. Hang in there.

weege1
03/21/2007, 07:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9535559#post9535559 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bsk997
I'm having the same exact problem you guys are.
I was working with Ed and was thinking that it had to do with the skimmer still breaking in. It's been about 3 wks since I've received my skimmer and I still have to raiser my riser all the way up in order to get any bubbles over the skimmer cup.

I had my skimmer in about 7" of water before and the bubbles were about 2.5" from overflowing the skimmer body itself with the riser all the way down.
I now have in about 9.5" of water and its at about 1" away from overflowing with the riser all the way down.
I now have the riser tube so that the T is hitting the bottom of the skimmer cup. I'm getting some rather large bubbles about 1/3 of the way up and we'll see how it goes from there.

I too feel very frustrated with this skimmer. I did a lot of research on skimmers and thought I was getting a great skimmer thats comparable to a BK but at a fraction of the cost. Had I known I was going to have this many problems, I would have probably gotten a H&S or Deltec. Sigh....
Sorry, just had to let out all my frustrations!

Post in this thread so Greg and Oliver are aware you too are having the same problem.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9534956#post9534956

I don't know what to say really, I do know that in my case the pump is pulling the right amount of air as my flow meter reads 18-20, that is what I should be getting. I'm also sure that I could get some results if I added a gate valve etc.

Maybe the pump is pulling enough air but not enough water. Everyone I that is getting results on the BM200 seams to have a heavily moded riser. Maybe another riser change will be forthcoming on the BM200's and that is our solution?

Jim_S
03/21/2007, 07:28 PM
Its good to see ATi working to fix the issues :thumbsup:

But anyone who comes to this thread looking for an unbiased point of view about the BM is looking in the wrong place :)

You might as well go into the Deltec forum ask Doug what he thinks about Deltec USA ;)


Jim

weege1
03/21/2007, 07:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9535559#post9535559 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bsk997
I'm having the same exact problem you guys are.
I was working with Ed and was thinking that it had to do with the skimmer still breaking in. It's been about 3 wks since I've received my skimmer and I still have to raiser my riser all the way up in order to get any bubbles over the skimmer cup.

I had my skimmer in about 7" of water before and the bubbles were about 2.5" from overflowing the skimmer body itself with the riser all the way down.
I now have in about 9.5" of water and its at about 1" away from overflowing with the riser all the way down.
I now have the riser tube so that the T is hitting the bottom of the skimmer cup. I'm getting some rather large bubbles about 1/3 of the way up and we'll see how it goes from there.

I too feel very frustrated with this skimmer. I did a lot of research on skimmers and thought I was getting a great skimmer thats comparable to a BK but at a fraction of the cost. Had I known I was going to have this many problems, I would have probably gotten a H&S or Deltec. Sigh....
Sorry, just had to let out all my frustrations!

Post in this thread so Greg and Oliver are aware you too are having the same problem.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9534956#post9534956

I don't know what to say really, I do know that in my case the pump is pulling the right amount of air as my flow meter reads 18-20, that is what I should be getting. I'm also sure that I could get some results if I added a gate valve etc.

Maybe the pump is pulling enough air but not enough water. Everyone I that is getting results on the BM200 seams to have a heavily moded riser. Maybe another riser change will be forthcoming on the BM200's and that is our solution?

weege1
03/21/2007, 07:33 PM
ATI is shipping a new riser. Take a look...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9535952#post9535952

mavgi
03/21/2007, 09:26 PM
I make some test and i will show here some photo , i will also copy this post at the reef geek forum page.

First i want to tell abbout the threadwheel impeller and the SICCE pump .

1 the mesh it's complete different impeller then a needle wheel impeller , in needel wheel impeller what you have it's what you got mean if the pump pull 15 LPM there is no way to get more air or better performance .

with the mesh wheel impeller the result can be changed by the way it's mod if the mesh will be wider little bit mean different of 1-2 mm can make big change and of we add one more layer the result will be different to . this is what we can get in regular impeller and this option can make big different .


2. the SICCE pump are rate about 500GPH with very low watt from test that i make in the past i was able to skim with one pump on the CS250 ER skimmer total high 30" and to pull 20LPM which with a 1600 GPH pump the good new ER wheel impeller was pull max 18LPM and use 60 watt .

i never saw a pump that perform like this little pump and push a lot of air .thi is one of the best pump i have never see .

the problem that all of you have in the BM200 IMO it's just adjusting and the reason i said that it's because what all of you will see in the next photo .

unfortunately i don't have a BM200 to make test and to help the best as i can and to give the correct opinion , i hope i am not wrong and i just want to help you all also i am sure all of you understand that.

as all of you know the BM250 bigger then the BM200 and if one pump can perform on BM250 then the pump can perform on the BM200 .

you can see in the first picture my BM250 with one pump :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1987.jpg


you can see on this picture the top of the skimmer how the water splash :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1984.jpg

you can see in this picture how the water level can increase in the cup without problem:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1988.jpg


you can see in this picture how the bubble look in the neck :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1989.jpg

the water level in the sump 9" and i am sure after all of you saw that pictures can understand that the BM200 will perform better with one pump compare to the BM250 . IMO when you will be able to adjust those skimmer with the correct raiser , correct diameter of the mesh the skimmer will perform perfect.

this skimmer perform very well when it's complete break in need to be more patient and i am sure that all the ppl that own this skimmer can tell that after 2 month the result very well , also the mesh mod pull a lot of air and if you want fine bubble you need to put air valve on the air pipe on the skimmer that run with one pump (not on the silencer this good for the 2 pump ) if you do so you will get fine bubble and all this will be better when the skimmer will run more time .

the color of the skimming look more light and this because the acrylic color compare to other it's crystal , but the color can be more dark and even ugly when the skimmer adjust and total break in and you can see here some different color on the cup :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP0533.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP0572.jpg


About ATI i wholdn't worry at all they take care about every problem and from the begining we saw that i hope all with the new raiser will solve this problem and will enjoy from the skimmer if i was have the BM200 i am sure i was able to help more i did all this test and type this post because ppl spend money on skimmer and they believe it will be better then what they have before and i feel all and i cut my skimmer and make this test to show you that this skimmer is great and can perform very well just need to find the correct adjusting and it will .

i hope to see you all hapy soon and see a new photo with great BM200 performance.

derick75
03/21/2007, 09:47 PM
Tonight I finally was able to reduce my bubble size in the collection cup, I bought a different air silencer much smaller then previous ones and had to cut the air by more then 50% it is much louder and makes a loud humming noise from the pump. It rattles when i try to restart the pump, but the bubbles are now smaller so I dont know if its worth it. I thought we strive for more air not less, I still have to use a gate valve, If I dont and use just the tee fitting the bubbles break within a inch from the top of the cup. I will run this for a day and see how it goes

sjm817
03/21/2007, 09:53 PM
derick, I dont like the sound of that.

mavgi
03/21/2007, 10:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9537382#post9537382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
derick, I dont like the sound of that.

with the mesh on any pump if you cut the air not correct , then the pump will be rattles and make a noise and will have hard to restart .

ReefGeek-Greg
03/22/2007, 12:20 AM
Hi All,

Until midday today I was not aware that several of you were having performance issues with the latest version of BM200. So let me first apologize for our lack of responsiveness to the posts in this forum.

I believe Reef Central is an incredibly valuable resource for hobbyists as well for manufacturers and retailers. I wish that we had the resources to be on Reef Central and other forums for that matter on a regular and even daily basis, but unfortunately at this time we just don’t have the time to do it.

We, of course, want to be available to you all to help fix any and all issues you may have, but we can’t fix problems we don’t know about. So if you ever have any problems with your skimmer or anything else and need immediate assistance the best thing to do is contact us directly either by calling us toll-free at 866-295-9230 or by e-mail at service@reefgeek.com.


Now to the issues at hand…

First of all, we stand behind all the products we sell and if there is something wrong with the skimmer or the pump, we will gladly exchange it for another one or provide a refund.

But from what I can tell reading this thread tonight I don’t believe we have a batch of defective skimmers or pumps out there. We just need to find a way to get these skimmers working correctly…

Just a quick note about the pumps…
All the pumps sold in the US came from the same batch, so I confident that we don’t have a bad batch of pumps. Also the photos posted a few days ago show cosmetic only defects to the pumps outer housing and should not have any impact on the pumps performance.

Now to the source of the problem, the thread pad…
The thread-wheel design used in the Bubble Master skimmers is very sensitive. As others have previously mentioned even a small 1mm change to the size of the thread pad can have a big impact on the skimmers performance. Even the small inconsistencies in the density of the thread pad material can have an impact of the skimmers performance. That’s the nature of the thread material and thread-wheel design and it does cause some inconsistencies in performance from skimmer to skimmer and from tank to tank. This in combination with other factors like the bio-load of the tank and the water level of the sump can and will cause everybody’s skimmer to perform a little differently.

Because everybody’s tank is different there is unfortunately no one way to run the skimmer and achieve perfect results. For some a thread pad of 44mm is just right, but for other it might be 43mm or 45mm. For some a depth of 6” is just right, but for others a depth of 8” is a better fit. So with this, please keep in mind that what may be good for you may not be good for others and vice versa.

So what’s the solution?
One possible solution is to provide everybody with a little extra thread material, so everybody can make a slightly bigger or slightly thread pad as needed. Of course, I recognize that this is not a very user friendly solution and I know I certainly wouldn’t want to have to mess with a $1 thread pad just to make my $500 skimmer work. This is why ATI introduced skimmers with an adjustable water level outlet. This feature was an improvement over the original models of the skimmers, but it certainly wasn’t the perfect solution. That is why ATI is now introducing a model 160 and model 250 with a built-in gate valve. Hopefully this same feature can be added to future generations of the model 200 too.

But where does that leave everybody with an older model of the skimmer?
We are working on an easy to use, compact gate valve mod that can plugged directly into the output T of a model 200 or model 250 skimmer. This kit will allow the user to more flexibility in raising and lowering the water level inside the skimmer. It will also provide more precision. We hope to have these available very soon. I could also use a few more beta testers, so if you are interested in getting one of the demo units, give me a ring.



… Anyway these are excellent skimmers and with a little work, we should be able to get them all working correctly. If you need any additional assistance, please give us a call tomorrow and we'll be able to assist. Sometimes this makes things much easier and less frustrating. In the meantime, hang in there...

Greg@ReefGeek

P.S. Now for some dinner… I really wish I was kidding.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 05:36 AM
Thanks Greg for help to every one i was feel very good to read this post and i am sure all the other member will be more comfortable when they will read it to especially those with the BM200 .

for all the member you can see here in the photo how the skimmer start break in and you can see the type of the thick foam it's build and this is the BM250 with one pump if it was the BM200 the result was better with one pump :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1995.jpg


in this picture you can see when the skimmer start to skim and if you look good you can see the size of the bubble on the neck and i am not run any needle valve on the air pipe :) :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1997.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1998.jpg


again IMO it's just point of adjusting and i am sure if it was the BM200 i was able to show you more better performance :) .

Baalz
03/22/2007, 06:46 AM
mavgi
Thank you so very much with the time you spend with all of us trying to help out.

I do not get bubbles in my column anywhere near this small with the riser at it's apex. Nor have I gotten any foam anywhere near that dense. Most I get is some froth.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1995.jpg

Here is a photo of my skimmer with the riser at it's highest. This is just after rinsing out the collection cup. After running a while I will get larger bubbles going up the column which then produces a foam head that is very unimpressive.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4433.jpg

Riser at the bottom
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4432.jpg

And a photo with collection cup off.. notice the large bubbles ?
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4430.jpg


Here is a photo of my impeller. Really my mesh wheel does not look in that bad of shape to cause such poor performance does it?

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4434.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/Baalz/Skimmer/IMG_4435.jpg

Creetin
03/22/2007, 07:16 AM
Are all your clown tanks hooked up to your sump there?
Lets hear what is involved with your system. I see you have all the breeding clownfish, What do you feed as well, and how many times per day?

mavgi
03/22/2007, 07:22 AM
Baalz


may i ask what is that bag in the picture , is this a carbon (the one in the right side)


are those 2 pipe your drain pipe



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMG_4430.jpg


about your impeller you will be very surprise from the result when the mesh will be more wider , you must to understand and need to know that any different size or layer on the mesh will change the skim , foam , air , bubble result and the different can be huge .

Baalz
03/22/2007, 07:24 AM
Creetin.
All seperate systems. I run an old Geo Beckett on clowns, evo 500 on my 75.
This skimmer is on my 5+ year old 180 SPS tank with 3 large fish and mabye 10-15 smaller fish. 5-6" DSB with 50g sump.

Just prior to getting this skimmer I had a Geo Needlewheel skimmer/ 9000 running on it.

Creetin
03/22/2007, 07:29 AM
What do you feed your tank this skimmer is on?
For example if i feed articpods my skimmer will look like yours for 3-4 hrs or more depending how much of it i feed, Now i could imagine i would get bad performance if i fed it 3-4 times a day. Rotifiers too do that for 2-3 hrs. Mysis for about an hr. The fatty/oils will wiegh down the foam.
My skimmer looks like yours for some time till the oils break down so the skimmer can remove them.
Anybody that noticed when they feed artic pods with this skimmer can tell you the same thing.
Just trying to help.

Baalz
03/22/2007, 07:49 AM
I just feed spirulina flake and my own home made mash to tank. My skimmer performs like this at ALL times. Like I've said before the bubbles do rise up the column more then whats shown in photos after its been running for awhile. But I have never seen any fine bubbles in column at any times since owning this skimmer. Not nothing like mavgi just posted.

There was a time I added a blue additive to my tank but stopped when my needlewheel would of pulled every bit of it out by the next morning.
So I attempted it on my system now with the BM skimmer running on a couple of occasions. None of it was skimmed by the BM200.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 08:25 AM
Baalz :

again sorry for my lang , i want to know if in the same place where the skimmer sit you run a carbon bag ?

also are the 2 pipe in the picture is the drain pipes ?

and please let me know if you have mesh and filter sock ?


about feeding : i am feeding my fish 2 time a day very heavy and add 2 clips with 3 layer of seaweeds because of that i cut down the fuge in my sump (the food was clog in it and the nitrate was spike)

my food its home made and i mixed with all the vitamin in , i am out of skim about 5-6 hour everyday and when the skimmer work it's perform very well.

also if i will add additive the skimming color will changed to .

Baalz
03/22/2007, 08:31 AM
mavgi
The two pipes behind the skimmer are my returns. I have it designed for minimal noise. So the water enters sump right at the surface. I used to run mesh filter socks but they became to much maintenance and I feared the nitrates produced. Carbon is run in same compartment as skimmer, but I have tried moving it with no effect.
With this skimmer running I have been able to get maybe a 1/2" of skimmate in cup after about a week (with riser all the way up). In comparison my needlewheel, which has a larger collection cup would had to of been emptied once or twice.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 08:54 AM
you need to take out the carbon from this area and to put it where is the pump it will not let to the skimmer perform well at all .

also if you run in the same place (i don't know if yes or not but i mention that now ) any phospath or other additive move it to the pump area .


i don't know how much water volume you drain from those pipe but i can tell you this , we see the water drain nice to the sump but you don't see the movement and the air that drain with it and if your return pump big the drain volume also big and when it's drain to a small area there is a lot of air and movement that reduce the performance from the pump .


i can try to help and it's depend if you want to try it i think that the result will be better and we can be sure just after the change.


1. take all the additive from this area to the pump area.

2. position your skimmer (that the pump will be near to the baffle and far from the drain pipe)

3. put filter sock 100 micron on your drain pipe (wash them good before you do it)

4. if you have mesh i will tell you how to mod your wheel impeller


i am sure after all this you will need to lower you raiser and the skimmer will perform better after it's will break in again.

bond007069
03/22/2007, 09:36 AM
Baalz

Have you tried cleaning the pumps/air intakes(venturi's) and such

lvpd186
03/22/2007, 11:29 AM
Baalz - when you get your new mesh from reefgeek cut it bigger then the one you have. It may be that the mesh pad you have now is too small. Right now it is obvious that it is not pulling enough water. Even on the lowest setting you should see bubbles all the way up and overflowing the skimmer when the collection cup is off.

weege1
03/22/2007, 11:48 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9541378#post9541378 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
Baalz - when you get your new mesh from reefgeek cut it bigger then the one you have. It may be that the mesh pad you have now is too small. Right now it is obvious that it is not pulling enough water. Even on the lowest setting you should see bubbles all the way up and overflowing the skimmer when the collection cup is off.

Do you have a BM200 and is that how yours is running?

I have an Air Meter so I know the pump is pulling enough air (18-20). However the water level on mine is also low.

It looks as though ATI has observed this and is releasing a new Gate valve kit for the existing BM200 owners. I'm sure this will be added to the new BM200's int eh future as the 160's and 250's already have them. Not sure why they didn't just add it to all three models from the start.

I think Baalz has a combination of two problems... One being new mesh, the second needing the new riser. That is why an Air meter is a must esp on these skimmers that have mesh.

Baalz
03/22/2007, 12:07 PM
lvpd186,
yeah with collection cup off and riser all the way down. This skimmer never will overflow the body in it's current state.
I surely wish the mesh is the problem but nobody has commmented on my photos of the mesh saying how it appears.
I do not think the gate valve is the solution. It may raise the water level in skimmer but the actual skimming action will not increase. Seeing photos of mavgi's skimmer in action with only one pump has me totally convinced its nothing to do with the way I have skimmer set up.

weege1,
how about a photo of the air meter connected.

lvpd186
03/22/2007, 12:12 PM
No, I have a 250. But I have seen several photos when the 200 was being tested (several of these were posted during the start of the thread, look for UcanDoIt's posts). Also if you look at the photos that magvi posted, and compare them to Baalz' photos you can see the skimmer is not pulling water. Both skimmers use the same pumps but even with the bigger skimmer body on the 250 it is still overflowing on the lowest setting with the cup off. To me it really looks like there is a problem involving the amount of water going in to the skimmer not going out. When these skimmers first came out the biggest complaint was that they skimmed too wet. To address this problem and give the user a way to lower the water even more (to achieve dryer skim) ati came out with a gate valve mod. The mod was never intended to increase the amount of water in the skimmer, just lower it. I never got one because I was happy with the results that I was getting (why fix it if it isn't broken approach). From the photos of Baalz' impeller it looks like the mesh does not really extend past the yellow disk to much. My suggestion is to cut a little bigger mesh pad and see if that solves the problem. Kind of a processes of elimination. Its a cheap test and if it solves the problem great, if not then move on to the next possible problem. I hope that makes sense.

lvpd186
03/22/2007, 12:15 PM
Magvi - what is the diameter of your mesh pad? Maybe that will give Baalz a starting point to work with.

weege1
03/22/2007, 12:20 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9541765#post9541765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
lvpd186,
yeah with collection cup off and riser all the way down. This skimmer never will overflow the body in it's current state.
I surely wish the mesh is the problem but nobody has commmented on my photos of the mesh saying how it appears.
I do not think the gate valve is the solution. It may raise the water level in skimmer but the actual skimming action will not increase. Seeing photos of mavgi's skimmer in action with only one pump has me totally convinced its nothing to do with the way I have skimmer set up.

weege1,
how about a photo of the air meter connected.

I'm at work so I will get a few photos tonight....

Mavgi prob tweaked the heck out his mesh I think its not the standard but could be wrong.

I do know that so far every BM200 user that I have asked that is getting good results has either moded the riser or has forced the riser past the bottom up the cup, to get the Water level up. I would love to have a BM200 user that does not have to do this to chime in..

I looked at your mesh and it looks the same as mine but I'm no expert.

Lou

MammothReefer
03/22/2007, 12:47 PM
wow i'm having the exact opposite issue, i have to keep mine all the way open at all times, otherwise it overflows even the smallest adjustment to my gatevalve.. and it's overflowing.. The water isn't even that high in the neck, but a tiny little adjustment and poof within 24 hours it's overflowing. Ideally i'd like to have it so i empty my cup 2-3 times a week, now i can either leave it all the way open.. and just empty it when its ready to be emptied (which varies) or... I can take my chances and try to adjust it and hope within 24 hours it doesn't end up spewing everything back into the sump when it overflows..

Don't get me wrong it seems to be working nicely, I just can't tune it as perfectly as I was able to my g3.. which irks me.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 12:51 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9541836#post9541836 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
Magvi - what is the diameter of your mesh pad? Maybe that will give Baalz a starting point to work with.

Never measure it :lol:

yes i said before to Balaaz he will surprize if the mesh will be more wider.

i also asked if he have mesh and i can tell to him how to mod the pump .

the truth is that i run the pumps different then all and without the shaft so my measure will not be the right for other's .

what will be help is what you mention before to cut a wider mesh and start to test it if the pump rattle need to adgust the size of the mesh . those step need to be very gentle because each mm will creat big different (personal i think 3 layer perform better then 2 but need to play with it more then 2 layer and if someone do it need to be patient but when it's work then forget about... )

very important to take out the carbon from this area and to try to position the pump near to the baffle far from the drain pipe.

i am sure that if this will be fixed the skimmer will perform better if in 2" wider skimmer 1 pump can work then in narrow one (BM200) the pump will rock.

Baalz
03/22/2007, 12:54 PM
mavgi
I have mesh material that you sent me when I was modding my needlewheel skimmer.

I can move carbon out of that sump area thats not a problem

weege1
03/22/2007, 12:56 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9542129#post9542129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
wow i'm having the exact opposite issue, i have to keep mine all the way open at all times, otherwise it overflows even the smallest adjustment to my gatevalve.. and it's overflowing.. The water isn't even that high in the neck, but a tiny little adjustment and poof within 24 hours it's overflowing. Ideally i'd like to have it so i empty my cup 2-3 times a week, now i can either leave it all the way open.. and just empty it when its ready to be emptied (which varies) or... I can take my chances and try to adjust it and hope within 24 hours it doesn't end up spewing everything back into the sump when it overflows..

Don't get me wrong it seems to be working nicely, I just can't tune it as perfectly as I was able to my g3.. which irks me.

Do you have a BM200? What size Threadwheel is yours.

I was reading some of the older ports when the BM200 first came out and how users were getting real wet skimmate or overflows and found that the mesh on those were larger that what I have 45-47mm? I think if I recall correctly I was 41-42mm. So I pull enough air but with the smaller mesh it doesn't pull as mush water?

I think magvi tried all diff sized mesh and seems to have found the perfect size maybe he can chime in with his mesh specs?

Jim_S
03/22/2007, 12:59 PM
I know that carbon removes DOC's, but I run a HUGE amount in my sump 24/7 and it has never affected the performance of any skimmer I have owned.

Can someone please explain why activated carbon would cause the problems that Baalz is experiencing? :)

Just trying to learn more :D

Thanks,

Jim

MammothReefer
03/22/2007, 01:01 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9542202#post9542202 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
Do you have a BM200? What size Threadwheel is yours.

I was reading some of the older ports when the BM200 first came out and how users were getting real wet skimmate or overflows and found that the mesh on those were larger that what I have 45-47mm? I think if I recall correctly I was 41-42mm. So I pull enough air but with the smaller mesh it doesn't pull as mush water?

I think magvi tried all diff sized mesh and seems to have found the perfect size maybe he can chime in with his mesh specs?

250, 2pumps don't know what size wheel. I wish I could just modify the neck and make it longer.. I think that would solve my issues.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 01:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9542188#post9542188 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
mavgi
I have mesh material that you sent me when I was modding my needlewheel skimmer.

I can move carbon out of that sump area thats not a problem

i forgot who i send the mesh .... you not going to believe i am total out of mesh now :lol: :lol:

the good news it's that you have the best type :D now if you want to give it a try let me know .


jimdogg187 :

is your carbon in a filter bag or you run it in reactor ?

more then that if it's in a bag (i don't know that but if...) is this near to the feeding skimmer pump ?

you run external skimmer so if you have it in a filter bag i am sure it's not near to the feeding pump .

you can make easy test put the filter bag with the carbon near to the feed pump and you will see how the foam crash and the skimmer will not perform at all .

i run a HUGE amount in my sump 24/7 to but in reactor when i try it in filter bag and put it near to my ER skimmer pump the skimmer stop to skim at all .

BTW i am sure you can teach me a lot ..... :lol:

sjm817
03/22/2007, 01:18 PM
Do any of you run as much carbon as I do? I run a Fluval 404 canister filter FULL of carbon (an entire 3.65L container of Black Diamond). It is a lot, so I run it on a timer. 1 Hr on/6 Hr off, so total of about 4 Hr/Day. I think the flow through it is ~ 300 GPH. I have it on the return section of the sump. I also have a 30G fuge that is chock full of chaeto. Even so, the skimmer consistently pulls out plenty.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 01:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9542408#post9542408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Do any of you run as much carbon as I do? I run a Fluval 404 canister filter FULL of carbon (an entire 3.65L container of Black Diamond). It is a lot, so I run it on a timer. 1 Hr on/6 Hr off, so total of about 4 Hr/Day. I think the flow through it is ~ 300 GPH. I have it on the return section of the sump. I also have a 30G fuge that is chock full of chaeto. Even so, the skimmer consistently pulls out plenty.

as i said before you can do this test to put some black diamond carbon in filter bag and put it near the skimmer pump i'll give it max 5 minute the foam will crash .


i run carbon 24/7 , phosphate 24/7 , sulfur 24/7 where was my fuge area all with reactors without any problem to .

also the mesh more snsetive then regular impeller and all of us know that if we put the finger in a moment the foam in the skimmer crash and this is not because the skimmer it's because the impeller .....

jefathome
03/22/2007, 02:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532189#post9532189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by weege1
I understand your fustration. I have only had mine breaking in for 4 days so I will wait it out... I just don't see how my water level is going to rise without intervention. The manual says keep the riser at the lowest level to prevent overflowing, ha, now way in hell its going to overflow with the level its at now. This has me wondering/worried because I interpert that as meaning the water level should be much higher than it is..

Weegel,

I ran my BM200 (100g system) for two weeks on the lowest setting. I only got about 2c of skimm the 1st week, and a bit less the 2nd. Around the middle of week 3, I raised the standpipe up to the level of the cup, and now I'm getting about 3/4c per day of some pretty nasty looking stuff.

Oh, bought mine from K&M as well, and have had it for 4 weeks as of tomorrow.


The thing that I read above that was weird was people talking about multiple layers of mesh? I'm almost positive that mine only has 1 layer. I'll have to take out the impeller soon to take a look.
Oh, and since Im at work, I can't see the other pics on here of the pump body or impellers that other 200 owners post.
Will check it out from home.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 02:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543106#post9543106 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jefathome
Weegel,

I ran my BM200 (100g system) for two weeks on the lowest setting. I only got about 2c of skimm the 1st week, and a bit less the 2nd. Around the middle of week 3, I raised the standpipe up to the level of the cup, and now I'm getting about 3/4c per day of some pretty nasty looking stuff.

Oh, bought mine from K&M as well, and have had it for 4 weeks as of tomorrow.


The thing that I read above that was weird was people talking about multiple layers of mesh? I'm almost positive that mine only has 1 layer. I'll have to take out the impeller soon to take a look.
Oh, and since Im at work, I can't see the other pics on here of the pump body or impellers that other 200 owners post.
Will check it out from home.


I am sure you have at least 2 layer and not 1 , the pump will not perform well with 1 layer .

MammothReefer
03/22/2007, 03:22 PM
How often are you guys doing water changes.. I'm doing them every week-week and half

jefathome
03/22/2007, 03:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9525635#post9525635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lvpd186
I agree, when I remove my collection cup bubbles flow over the top at a steady rate. If I put my riser at the highest level it would over-flow the cup. I would contact whoever you bought it from. Maybe they can replace the pump or something. Good luck, I hope they make good on it.

I guess I'm in the middle then.
I get bubbles (and skim) with the riser in the highest setting, but lower it and almost no skim.

jefathome
03/22/2007, 03:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9526873#post9526873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
No my skimmer has never had fine bubbles such as this rise up the column. If it ever does get that high in column the bubbles are quite large at that point

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/bond007069/494c40fe.jpg


Again, same here.
I get bubbles that high, but not that fine.

jefathome
03/22/2007, 03:30 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543237#post9543237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
I am sure you have at least 2 layer and not 1 , the pump will not perform well with 1 layer .

Any news on that new mesh you were checking out?

bsk997
03/22/2007, 04:46 PM
I had a lengthy talk with Ed from K&M last night and he's going to send me a gate valve to add to the T exhaust on the riser bar.
We're confident this will resolve the problem with the bubbles being high up in the skimmer cup neck. This will create back pressure on exhause and increase the height of the bubbles.

Hopefully, ATi will come out with something to help with all these problems with the BM200. I have great confidence in Greg and Oliver to make things right.

Another thing that might have to be done with these skimmers is to put an air valve on in order to fine tune the bubble size to the smaller size.

I feel both the gate valve mod and air valve should have been included if it wouldn't perform properly w/out them....

Ed from K&M has been great at explaining things and working on getting me a gate valve mod in order for this skimmer to work as it should.

weege1
03/22/2007, 05:11 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9544262#post9544262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bsk997
I had a lengthy talk with Ed from K&M last night and he's going to send me a gate valve to add to the T exhaust on the riser bar.
We're confident this will resolve the problem with the bubbles being high up in the skimmer cup neck. This will create back pressure on exhause and increase the height of the bubbles.

Hopefully, ATi will come out with something to help with all these problems with the BM200. I have great confidence in Greg and Oliver to make things right.

Another thing that might have to be done with these skimmers is to put an air valve on in order to fine tune the bubble size to the smaller size.

I feel both the gate valve mod and air valve should have been included if it wouldn't perform properly w/out them....

Ed from K&M has been great at explaining things and working on getting me a gate valve mod in order for this skimmer to work as it should.

Baalz
03/22/2007, 05:16 PM
mavgi yes I am willing to try the mesh that you sent me.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 05:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9544480#post9544480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
mavgi yes I am willing to try the mesh that you sent me.

do you have small zip ties ?

Baalz
03/22/2007, 05:37 PM
sure do

mavgi
03/22/2007, 05:58 PM
can you tell me how much layer you have now on the wheel impeller ?

and if the mesh wider more then the yellow wheel impeller ?

i am not sure because i never see it from the back.

Baalz
03/22/2007, 06:14 PM
It appears to be two layers? And it is slightly wider then the wheel. I did measure this two weeks ago and it was the size of the most recently released mesh wheels. I forget what it measured but Greg told me to and it checked out.

Jim_S
03/22/2007, 06:16 PM
mavgi,

My carbon is in a bag, that is in the filter sock for my drains. This way I get raw, dirty water pushed through the carbon. And I can take it out and clean it when I change the filter sock :)

My skimmer is drain fed, so the carbon is not near the feed source.

But when I used to run an insump skimmer, my carbon bag was right next to the skimmer. I never noticed any ill effects.

I'm gonna take my bag of carbon and place it right next to my skimmer's drain and see if the foam collapses;)

Thanks for the compliment. We all have lots to learn in this hobby, and thats the best part about RC :) We can come here to learn.

Cheers,

Jim

edit: 2500 posts :D:celeb1: :beer:

mavgi
03/22/2007, 06:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9544935#post9544935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Baalz
It appears to be two layers? And it us slightly wider then the wheel. I did measure this two weeks ago and it was the size of the most recently released mesh wheels. I forget what it measured but Greg told me to and it checked out.

ok there is some way to do it : 2 layer or 3 layer with the 3 layer

you will need to help sometime to the pump but now we will start 2 layer wider size if the result will be the same we will add 1 more layer after and i will tell you how to do it.


cut 2 square piece more bigger then the yellow impeller (ay least 6mm more)

attach the mesh together and zip them after that turn the wheel and trim the mesh do it wider (we always can trim more after)

after trim gentle the center with cutter just spread the mesh so you can put the shaft in clear space (if the mesh will touch it it's can brake)

now put all together and connect the air pipe turn on the pump of the water slide down the pump slowly and let it flow . if the pump will rattle or stack try it again and slowly keep the air pipe up straigth if the pump spin let it work 2-3 minute and after connect the pump to the sklimmer .

here some quick picture :


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2000.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2004.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2002.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2005.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2007.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2008.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2010.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP2012.jpg


when you finish i want you to pick up the cup and to see if the water splash like this picture :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1984.jpg

Baalz
03/22/2007, 07:24 PM
Done deal...
I had to trim the mesh down in diameter probably very close to what it used to be or pump wouldnt spin up.
The mesh wheel appears to look pretty good.. Your stuff seems far superior then whats on the ATI.
So far I can not tell if there is an improvement. I would rather wait until morning to see if it has changed. With my hands in sump, rinsing out cup etc I want to give it the benefit of the doubt.

One question though.. whats that piece on your impeller on the 2nd picture from bottom.. My mesh wheel impeller goes into body of pump then I slide the ceramic shaft in there and then the large injector end screws on.. I see a sort of white piece on the end of your shaft there.

Baalz
03/22/2007, 07:30 PM
It is photos like these that make me feel sick
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/IMGP1984.jpg

This skimmer will only do that if I remove collection cup and pull up riser to its highest point. Of course I cant put collection cup back on.

mavgi
03/22/2007, 07:35 PM
the sort of white piece on the end of shaft its the end screw and you have the same in your pump. maybe its stuck on your impeller cover and you didnt see it
please if you can i want to see a picture with a rasier up even the skimmer doesnt broken yet
thanks