Effects Of Vodka Dosing

[zeusfc]

Hi all,
as a follow up to a recent thread on a UK forum about reducing Nitrates, I became aware that a couple of us had experienced some side-effects from long-term vodka use (cue 200 alcoholic jokes!) so...
Please could everyone who's tried vodka dosing give some feedback on this one..

Did the vodka actually reduce the nitrates?
Did they return when you stopped dosing?
Did you experience any deterioration of livestock during the dosing?
Did the tank actually look better whilst dosing?

I'll start off on a separate post!

[zeusfc]

Yes the vodka reduced the nitrates from 20 to zero

No the level is still Zero

The corals look bleached out, and have shown no growth for the two months of dosing ( originally accredited this to a tiny dose of copper based medication being accidently added with livestock, but the polyfilters show NO traces of copper)

The tank has more algae than ever before, with that delightful dust-like "algae on algae" growing on all the macroalgae and liverock, as fast as I can remove it!
The bare base, which is building up a decent level of coraline algae, now has a dirty brown film over large parts of it.

Incidently, the phosphate and nitrate test kits, BOTH say zero, but the algae bloom is self-perpetuating, and will probably take baby sea-urchins to finally bring it back under control...

Anyone had better results???
(and I don't just mean on the test kit!)

[fingersdlp]

Yes vodka reduced nitrate from 45 to 30 before I stopped

Nitrates started to go up again but I added a sulfur denitrator

Majestic angel had a large lymphosystis growth on chin that bloomed during the vodka experiment. It has receeded considerably since I stopped the Vodka but still there.

Glass has round clear areas (probably bacterial growth) that helped keep the glass cleaner. No other observable tank changes

FWIW the sulfur denitrator works great and I could not keep my fish only stocked the way I have without it.

[zeusfc]

Oh come on... there MUST be hundreds of reefers who have tried this... PLEASE... lets have a bit of feedback, even if it's just to point me to another thread!

[Billybeau1]

You won't find many fans of Vodka dosing in this forum.

I have actually tried it myself with "zero" results.

There are a number of Vodka treads on the forums.....Unfortunately, they all seem to go south after a couple of days.

Gee, I wonder why ?

Not a good idea IMO. :)

[poissonist]

hello i am surprised you did not see my thread. i was looking also for people experimenting.
results are more than excellents!
but i wonder how you dose your calcium etc. but first do you maintain more animals with this method? or it is just to get ride of nit and phos?

[WaterKeeper]

I like to dose Vodka--Hic! :spin2:

I've pretty much followed the threads on Vodka dosing since it was first suggested. Based on those post I really don't see any major benefits in adding to the aquarium. In most cases the amount of DOC naturally added to the water column by feeding and metabolic processes should supply all the supplemental carbon needed for denitrification, JMO

[miska]

Hi everybody, the vodka beneficials are the whole bacterial flora ,including the nitrate reductans too .The increased nomber of bacteria increase the anount of DOC ,and a lot of othere bacterial by-products ,wich favorise the algal bloom .another problem is that the coralls will suffer the increased bacterial level (can dye)must be use concomitent vodka ,UV sterilizer, ozonizer to break down the by-products of bacteria ,and activated carbon .On the natural reefs ,the water clearance are made the phito-plancton whith the help of sun-light (which is enormous ,in comparicion with the subtropical light energy)Be wery careful with sulfure-bacteria ,here to Budapest very aquaria was toxicated with sulfate -autotroph bacterial by-products .(my aq.too)This bacteria if dye ,immediat release the toxines.I sugest to wash stongly the sulfate beads every 3-4 week intervale,and use of lime stone sand to neutralise the sulphuric-acid ,produced by bacteria.(the nitrate will break down to 0%, but is like a hide -bombe in aquaria ,I never get back to sulphure beads)

[miska]

somebody hear about the drinking water denitrifying bacteria suplement of sodium-acetate?(instead of vodka ,grape-sugar)

[zeusfc]

The whole point of the thread is plainly that I know the test kits are saying Zero Nitrate, Zero Phosphate, but the tank's still growing algae in abundance... hair algae is WORSE than it was when I started, and that delightful dust-like algae that grows on everything during the day is still growing! I really think the effects of dosing may simply be to distort the test kit results! and to start bacterial blooms... I'm looking for anecdotal evidence that it really does improve the tank, not just the figures!

[miska]

The test chit's results are not false ,but the proces of nitrate reduction is a minor efect beside the enormous other by-products newly come in suspention with this process...At 0% nitrate is possible an enormous algal growth too.The algae's affinity to adsorb the by-products is more great ,than the adsorbing filters media capacity .I's almost inposibble to filter out as quickly the by-products .(sorry for my poor english)

[poissonist]

I SEE THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE BIG PROBLEMS WITH VODKA/ETHANOL!!!
I ADVISE ALL OF YOU TO CONSIDER MY ARTICLE IN THIS FORUM WHICH EXPLAIN YOU HOW TO DO! JUST DO THAT ONLY; IF YOU WANT TO EXPERIMENT WITHOUT PROBLEM;
YOU WILL OBTAIN NO PHOSPHATES AND NITRATES AND PUT MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE ANIMALS; dEPEND ON HOW MUCH MONAY YOU HAVE!
ALCOOL IS CHEAP AND IF YOU DO WHAT IS GOOD YOU WILL HAVE GOOD; IF YOU THINK YOU JUST PUT ALCOOL AT IRREGULAR TIME WITH BIG AMOUNTS OR TOO SMALL AMOUNTS; IF YOU DO NOT REPECT WHAT YOU MUST DO THEN AQUARIUM WILL MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND GO AWAY!! WITHOUT PITY.
IF OTHER PEOPLE AS I DO CAN MAINTAIN ABOUT 5O TO 100 TIMES AS MUCH ANIMALS IN THEIR AQUARIUM THAN IN CLASSIC AQUARIUMS IT IS NOT MIRACLE; i am not superman with super power. i practice with method and i give freely it in my article in this forum so if many of you do not respect or invent what could happen or just repeat what they only heard then they only transmitt wrong informations . this is not what you want to do???
As i told everybody before i have nothing to sell and i do not care you do with alcool. i do not care you want or not to have more animals. i just help people to practice easy/ nice and full of life aquarium safely for animals!that's all folks!

[zeusfc]

thanks poissonist! could you stick a link to your thread please... the search on here is really bad some days!

I'm not disputing that SOME people have good results... but I believed that vodka dosing was going to be the magic cure-all for algae problems, how wrong i was! My concern is that although many people talk a good argument for OR against vodka, very few appear to be actually dosing daily with small levels, which I understood, was the correct way to do it! I'd be very interested (if you have them) to see "before and after" photos of your tank, as my big concern is that with the exception of a capnella/bush coral, I've seen no growth in three months! even star polyps haven't spread...

Miska, your English is 100% better than my Hungarian! (and better than many of the "english speaking" people who post on here!

[Nitroq2]

I dosed with vodka for a while, what I noticed was the algae will first turn to slime then later to dust then the hair algae will start to subside. My skimmer borke which has forced me to stop dosing vodka for over a week now. Still no nitrates or phosphates, and no major algae bloom. However now my crocea seems to be lacking a little color, not sick looking but enough for me to notice. I am not sure what to make of that but everything else looks great and my colors have never been better. I started with my nitrates about 50 and they are now at zero. I am not recommending this to anybody, only giving my results. As far as fish, shrimp, and snails I havent had any issues with those (well maybe my purple tang thinks the hog fish is sexy now LOL, jk). I think my problem is with my rock and I fully expect that the Algae and Nitrate will creep back up until the rock is replaced.

[miska]

My experience with alcool is :to dose dayly 0,1-0,2ml/100liter aq. water,but just interior in anaerobe filter with a prelonged 24h. releasing time ,to not shock the bacteria .The input water is 2-4liter/h. the volume is 8-10 liter .the media is coral sand ,and sponge,interior a300l/h pump.The exit water introduced in skimmer.Dayly use of 2 time the ozonizer 1-1h.Notice that the filter media were washed mounthly.this is the real organic matter take off from the sistem,beside the skimmer.and i use activated carbon half a dose mounthly.

[poissonist]

Article ALCCOL ETHANOL VODKA it is here fisrst page of this forum!
READ CAREFULLY METHOD AN DOSES AND EVERYTHING....

never stop to add vodka otherwise GAME OVER for aquarium!!!

look my photos

try to find algae. of course it is impossible. even if i put kilos of food over there...

Also i have a lot of light 250W PLUS 150W ON THE SIDE and guess? no algae....
this is why my pictures are always overlighted!

[poissonist]

By the way of course everything grows!! and i had to change my previous aquarium because it was too small in a few months. and guess what it is on the way to be the same with this one! so i cut corals to throw away when it is close to touch each others!
i will write article about how to grow every coral fast and one can do faster than i do because i do not want to change my tank too fast...

if you want to grow fast corals and everything it is also possible but i do not think so usefull because our tanks are not factories! i mean to product for what? i am not a seller! but who want can do it for ultra low costs....

[Nitroq2]

How long before I should expect my tank to crash after I stop using vodka?

[zeusfc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9558344#post9558344 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nitroq2
. However now my crocea seems to be lacking a little color, not sick looking but enough for me to notice. I am not sure what to make of that

I'm assuming that's a clam? clams need (some) nitrate to thrive!

[zeusfc]

Poissonist, pleae can you stick some big photos on either (or both) threads? the ones in your gallery come up about 6cmx 4cm, and don't look like your description at all! I'm not disputing your success, I just want to see it!

[miska]

Hi zeusfc.I got a lot of artile on google ,with this keywords:denitrification,iron-ion,manganease-ion.I'ts seems that the denitrification bacteria are eating not just the nitrate ,but a lot of metal ions too...I think the coral bleaching ,is a cause of this leack of minerals.this is the reason why must add trace elements regularly to water.it's worth to try it.

[poissonist]

i took photos with 7 000 000 PIXELS AND fall to 68K BUT IT IS TOO MUCH FOR THIS SITE SO I COMPRESSED FOR EMAIL AT 8K!
i spent time (i do not like) to do it! and i will try later to compress AGAIN MY 68K BUT I DO NOT KNOW THE RESULT; aNYWAY I WILL DO!

About fishes i have so many (not on photos) because they hide because i notice a deviation behavior.when you put too many fish for given volume it comes out a chief and others need to be hide. they dig hole at the bottom of rocks and they can stay in their hole but they stay by 3 OR 4 IN THE SAME; aLSO MAYBE THEY LIKE!
OTHERS STAY between rocks. i feed a lot so food goes everywhere. Surely also they took the habit to stay like this because they know food will come everywhere.
i give each day 4 AUTOMATIC DITRIBUTION with feeder. plus big granulates plus an equivalent living coffe spoon of dry artemia nauplies plus 4 big cubes of frozen!

OF COURSE I know captives animal take habits very fast.
About crevets i have 5 WUDEMANNI AND ABOUT AS MUCH DEBELIUS AND OTHER I FORGOT NAME BUT THEY COME WHEN I PUT MY HAND ON CORALS; tHEY ONLY TRY TO BITE ME BECAUSE IT IS THEIR TERRITORY; ALL THE TIME THEY HIDE!

Territories of fish are spread in all volume of aquarium because rocks/coral take all the volume so many will never come on others territories at the front/top or side aquarium.

And in this volume i could not put any zebrasoma for exemple because it is too small! so i could put only small fishes.

About clams nobody knows exactly how it eat!but if you put nitrates you will decrease or suppress all their beautiful colors in a terrible brown as i could see many during those last 30 YEARS AND AS I COULD ALSO SEE IT IN PUBLIC AQUARIUMS;
I know it exists browns natural clams but i also saw those brown and they are beautiful.
I speak about brown clams and all corals because of nitrates! it is terrible to me when i see that!(also all corals live very well in brown with nitrates) personnally i like colors!
By the way all people having clams (me also) says that they need a lot of light close to surface with HQI ONLY; nEONS ETC ARE NOT ENOUGH FOR MORE THAN ONE YEAR FULL COLORS!!

Crash tank:
i never did with many corals only with a few during a tank change.
I DID IT ON 40 liters.
I tested many times to decrease strongly alcool and i had stong bacteria death and my skimmer got crazy. so crazy i found 30 LITERS ON THE GROUND AFTER MY GARBAGE WAS FULL! i DID NOT CHECK AMMONIA AND NITRIT AT THAT MOMENT I WAS STRESSED ENOUGH LIKE THIS!
I will also write article about what to do to avoid crash if pump failure or electricity failure.
In tank like me i admit i have no more than MAXIMUM 3 HOURS TO HAVE AGAIN ELECTRICITY OTHERWISE BACTERIA DIE BECAUSE OF LACK OXYGEN AND JUST AFTER CREVETS AND JUST AFTER FISH AND JUST AFTER CORALS AND THEN AMMONIA CLIMB AND CRASH ALL;
MOST OF CRASH HAPPEN WHEN ELECTRICITY GOES DOWN for all tanks alcool or not alcool unfortunatly.
Info: i am going to install soon device to put pure oxygen with bottles so my tank keep out of those problems. But it cost a lot.
But it will stressless me a lot also!

[zeusfc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9564093#post9564093 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by miska
Hi zeusfc.I got a lot of artile on google ,with this keywords:denitrification,iron-ion,manganease-ion.I'ts seems that the denitrification bacteria are eating not just the nitrate ,but a lot of metal ions too...I think the coral bleaching ,is a cause of this leack of minerals.this is the reason why must add trace elements regularly to water.it's worth to try it.

BRILLIANT!

well searched!

exactly the sort of thing I was worried about!

[poissonist]

be carefull with oligos since you can not test it. it is possible to pollute more than enrich!

Do not play with too much! and what effect you have with a list of all oligos at the same time. why more this one less this one? be carefull!!!

There are so many reasons why it bleach!

[LSD_Zeppelin]

I dosed a few ML of voka ONCE, and I mean I put it in ONE time, and I got the dust algea stuff all over and it it just starting to subside. I'm not sure if it was the vodka or something else but it did appear about a week after that day, and I can't think of much else that might have been able to cause it.

[zeusfc]

poissonist... 'have PMed you about photos

[poissonist]

if you dose a few ml vodka you will immediately take the risk to kill your crevets!

The tank is not used to do this way and it makes you understand by an algae bloom. Continu and you will kill eveything. i told you in my article never to do like this!

Also if you imagine you can test everything,respecting nothing, i think about oligos, you will have the same "surprises" to find many animal "tired"as they say in the retailers shops!!!

So every body, aquarium is your property do what you want but be aware your tank will bring you back to realities.....roughly of course!

hahahahhahahhhahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[miska]

hi, lsd zeppelin.What you are observed was a ciano-bacteria fight against an other strain of bacteria ,caused by energy suplying of alcool.imagin,what will get suffered,the coralls in same hi -leveled,and agressive super natural enviroment ,this is the reason why must aclimatise the immune sistem of inhabitants slowly to increased agressive bacterial level, produced by wodka.

[zeusfc]

http://www.reeftalk.co.uk/gallery/files/4/2/7/TYUU.jpg

http://www.reeftalk.co.uk/gallery/files/4/2/7/Photo029.jpg

These are a couple of photos of Poissonists' tank that he managed to send to me via email... I'm pretty impressed!
my one big worry is that having so much vokda/alcohol in the system would probably make acclimatising difficult... could you give us some info on what you do to ensure new purchases survive?

[poissonist]

everybody read my other article in this forum to get infos about method and tips and cares.

This is not difficult if you accept the idea to do it with dosing pumps and increase it at rates which are very small and test many often your parameters.

i will give more info in the next future.

[poissonist]

it is also strange that my infos on this site has very fast been erased. Yesurday it was MORE THAN 400 PEOPLE READING MY ARICLES HERE IN THE CHEMISTRY AND I GAVE MOST OF INFOS ABOUT HOW TO DOSE ALCOOL/ETHANOL/VODKA;
I HAVE A SMALL EXPLICATION WHICH OF COURSE AUTHORITIES WILL IMMEDIATELY TELL YOU I AM WRONG:
I GAVE YOU THE METHOD TO DO A REEF AT ULTRA LOW COSTS WITH A LOT OF FISHES BUT IN WHICH YOU DO NOT USE CHEMICAL PRODUCTS SOLD BY FIRM AS SEACHEM. KENT. ETC ETC AND AS THEY ARE PROBABLY SPONSORING DOWN HERE IT IS NOT GOOD AT ALL THAT I EXPLAIN YOU HOW TO DO AT LOW COSTS;

Any way it is their site not mine. and do not continu to think that only by putting kalk or hydroxyd and firm products you can have natural aquariums as you should have.

i gave many of you infos. it is ok. also nobody gave me interesting info! and it is not interesting to me to see that they tried without method and sporadically dosing alcool. and take risk to kill their animal.

I was looking for advanced methods. But it is always the same methods and firms and everything also here in the US.

LET's business continu because i am not DON QUICHOTTE!!!

[Radiography14]

why add vodka to your tank. i would rather drink it.