Can there be too much flow for fish?

[N_V_S]

Hello everyone!

Currently my fish are slowly dying. :eek: I have had three damsel's die one by one and I think my cleaner fish just died today. I have checked my water three times this week and listed below are the current results.

I just purchased two Tunze 6045 Nanostreams last week and after installing them my fish seem to be dying. I think my turn over rate is 75 times per hour. Does anyone have any clue why my fish are dying? Any comments will help. Thanks in advance for all your help!!!!

P.S. I have been trying to raise my Alkalinity using the Marine Kent buffer. This pass weekend.


Temp :: 79
Salinity :: 1.024
PH :: 8.1
Alkalinity :: 7 DKH
Calcium :: 460 ppm
Phosphate :: 0
Ammonia :: 0
Nitrite :: 0
Nitrate :: 0

[puddldude]

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

Get you alk and PH up

There are a # of different ways to do this in the chart.

That is a ton of flow but I have two 620 in my 16 gallon in my office. BOL

[clevername]

I second that; Flow is NOT going to kill your inhabitants. To be honest, PH is fine (idealy 8.2) and shouldnt be a problem.

i second that you need to adjust the ALK.


Also, it could be a chemical in the water. Are you running carbon, or a skimmer?

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9525734#post9525734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clevername2000
I second that; Flow is NOT going to kill your inhabitants. To be honest, PH is fine (idealy 8.2) and shouldnt be a problem.

i second that you need to adjust the ALK.


Also, it could be a chemical in the water. Are you running carbon, or a skimmer?

Yes, I am running a Octopus NW110 w/gate mod as a skimmer, however I am not running carbon right now. I will try it today when I go home. As for the Alk, I am currently dosing my tank everyday with the Marine Kent Alkalinity Buffer as suggested (since sunday), however it has not changed for me. I order a Salifert Alkalinity test kit today and I will get it tomorrow. I have been using the Ocean Master test kit, however I do not know if it is accurate. I will see tomorrow and give you an update.

Thank you for all your help and wish me luck. :)

[King-Kong]

His ph and alk are not killing his fish.

My pH was 7.76 this morning, and even my SPS were fine (let a lone my anthias, tang, fairy wrasses, and clowns)

Your cleaner fish was probably on its way out; they dont have good track records in our tanks, and damsels, while tough, are often times abused.

I wouldnt even bother messing with your alk unless you're trying to grow LPS or SPS corals, and even then, consider using better salt, and add kalkwasser to your topoff.

If your trites/trates/ammonia truly are 0, then look to the fishes diets, or how they were initially caught/transported as the reasons for them dying.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9526671#post9526671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
His ph and alk are not killing his fish.

My pH was 7.76 this morning, and even my SPS were fine (let a lone my anthias, tang, fairy wrasses, and clowns)

Your cleaner fish was probably on its way out; they dont have good track records in our tanks, and damsels, while tough, are often times abused.

I wouldnt even bother messing with your alk unless you're trying to grow LPS or SPS corals, and even then, consider using better salt, and add kalkwasser to your topoff.

If your trites/trates/ammonia truly are 0, then look to the fishes diets, or how they were initially caught/transported as the reasons for them dying.

Thank you for all the information! ;) The reason why I am trying to keep a steady water parameters is because I am trying to grow SPS. I am doing water changes with natural sea water from my lfs. Is it better for me to make my own SW? I am new to sps and I am currently learn a lot of new things I never knew before. Anyways, I understand that in this hobby nothing is really a guarantee, it suck, but I still love it.

So if you have any suggestions or insight about growing sps, your advice will be greatly appriciated!! :D

[anjhof]

I would think that natural sea water has far more potential for being contaminated than making your own with RO water. I have never heard of fish dropping dead because there was too much flow - there has to be somewhere in the tank where they can be sheltered from the flow, right?

[xxseawolf]

i have had natural gulf of mexico water in my tank for 8 months with no problems. i do bi-weekly changes with. i wouldnt use gulf water in the summer(red tide). i keep at least 100g stored in the garage. i had my 30g hex crash once becomes i added a fish with somekind of parasite and after a week i lost 1 every day but my iverts were unharmed. i let the tank cycle without fish for about 8 weeks and it is running fine.

[Drewcipher]

When I lived in LA we used NSW all the time, and the store I bought from has used nothing but NSW for years. The collectors know how to get rid of the cooties.

How long had you had the damsels? Maybe cyanide was used in their collection. If so there was really nothing you could do.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9533829#post9533829 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Drewcipher
When I lived in LA we used NSW all the time, and the store I bought from has used nothing but NSW for years. The collectors know how to get rid of the cooties.

How long had you had the damsels? Maybe cyanide was used in their collection. If so there was really nothing you could do.

I think I had the damsels for a about a month. I do not know how they were collected, however my other TP clowns and fire fish seem to be doing okay right now.

[xxseawolf]

sorry for all misspelling in my last post. cant type for chit

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532423#post9532423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anjhof
I would think that natural sea water has far more potential for being contaminated than making your own with RO water. I have never heard of fish dropping dead because there was too much flow - there has to be somewhere in the tank where they can be sheltered from the flow, right?

Yes when I think about it, there are places where my fish can hide without getting blasted by the nanostreams, however I never stop to think about it. I just got really excited because one by one my fish have been dying. My tank has been running for almost one year and I never encountered this problem. Since the only thing that changed in my tank is the nanostreams, I just wanted to ask if the nanostreams could be a possibility of my problem.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9534016#post9534016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
sorry for all misspelling in my last post. cant type for chit


It is all good:cool:

[xxseawolf]

N_V_S you dont have too much flow IMO. i have a 55g with a 700+ gph flow and 2-210gph flow powerheads. iam about to add another powerhead to kill a deadspot i have in the aquarium. again i believe in NSW is not a problem, i swear by it JMHO. good luck

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9536756#post9536756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
N_V_S you dont have too much flow IMO. i have a 55g with a 700+ gph flow and 2-210gph flow powerheads. iam about to add another powerhead to kill a deadspot i have in the aquarium. again i believe in NSW is not a problem, i swear by it JMHO. good luck

Thanks :D

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9524626#post9524626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by puddldude
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

Get you alk and PH up

There are a # of different ways to do this in the chart.

That is a ton of flow but I have two 620 in my 16 gallon in my office. BOL

How do you use the calculator??

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543035#post9543035 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by N_V_S
How do you use the calculator??

Sorry, I figure it out.. I am stupid.

[triggerfish1976]

Based on what you have told us so far, there is nothing that stands out as a cause for the death of the fish.
Like a previous post stated, cleaner wrasse generally waste away in home aquaria so it may have just starved but damsels are hardy enough to with stand minor water chemistry fluctuations.
How long has the tank been setup and how long have you had these fish?
Any sign of disease prior to the fish dying?

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543389#post9543389 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
Based on what you have told us so far, there is nothing that stands out as a cause for the death of the fish.
Like a previous post stated, cleaner wrasse generally waste away in home aquaria so it may have just starved but damsels are hardy enough to with stand minor water chemistry fluctuations.
How long has the tank been setup and how long have you had these fish?
Any sign of disease prior to the fish dying?

I have had the tank running for almost one year, however I only had the damsels for about a month. I did not see and sign of disease and the damsels were eating. I understand that cleaner wrasses are very hard to keep and I have killed two since I started this tank. I am thinking that I got a bad batch of damsels because my other fish are still doing okay right now.

Thanks you for the information your a good guy. :D

[triggerfish1976]

Chromis and Damsels sometimes come in with various maladies that are not overly obvious and since they are so cheap and have a reputation for being hardy they are not given the same accimilation treatment as other fish at the store. I have seen countless Green Chromis die for no visible reason but you know there is something wrong with them.

[xxseawolf]

i dont like cleaner wrasse for the fact when your fish are low on parasites, they might keep picking at your fish looking for food. some fish might get aggrevated or stressed out IMHO. cleaner shrimp are better IMO cause the fish will go to them when they want to be cleaned and not harassed buy a cleaner fish. just my 1/2 cents worth. again good luck

[xxseawolf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543825#post9543825 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
by again my apologize for spelling, i need to hire a secretary cause i suck at typing lol

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543724#post9543724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
Chromis and Damsels sometimes come in with various maladies that are not overly obvious and since they are so cheap and have a reputation for being hardy they are not given the same accimilation treatment as other fish at the store. I have seen countless Green Chromis die for no visible reason but you know there is something wrong with them.

I did not know that! That kind of sucks that they are treated that way. I am sorry I did not state in my post that the damsels I was refering to was the Green Chromis. I am glad that you told me that and I keep way from the Chromis.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9543910#post9543910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
again my apologize for spelling, i need to hire a secretary cause i suck at typing lol

It is all good my man... :cool: I can't spell for beans and I wish I could hire a secretary :lol: . I think I could, if I did not spend all my money on my reef tank. You know the feeling..... (lol)

[xxseawolf]

lol-my wife is ready to divorce me over my tanks. a secretary MIGHT be cheaper. gonna sign the papers tomorrow, hehe gonna buy a 1000g tank and stock it and save LOTSSSSSSSSS of money-lol.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9544463#post9544463 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxseawolf
lol-my wife is ready to divorce me over my tanks. a secretary MIGHT be cheaper. gonna sign the papers tomorrow, hehe gonna buy a 1000g tank and stock it and save LOTSSSSSSSSS of money-lol.

LOL. I wish and I wish for a bigger tank, however I think if I do, I will never get a girlfreind or a wife. Also, I am thinking about setting up a club called FTA (Fish Tank Anonymous), so I can see if there are any girls into this hobby.

I am currently think of the 12 steps program, but I only got 6. If you can add I will make you a co-founder. Also, tell me what you think.

12 Step Program

1. You need a BIG fuse box because the equipment you need will take a lot of engry. (don't want to pop a fuse)

2. Make friends at all the LFS because if you need something late at night you can call them to open. (hell just make them join) LOL

3. You must upgrade to a bigger tank every two years.

4. Find a girlfriend or wife with a ton of money and interest in the hobby. (IMO mermaids are the best because they can get you LS and hidden treasure)

5. All member must pay due, so WE can get a bigger tanks (lol)

[xxseawolf]

if i divorce my wife her shopping spree(funded by me=MORE F!@#$%G fish and stuff) lol. I WIN

[Drewcipher]

I WIN!!! My girlfriend is also a reefer. No conflicts!!!

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9545916#post9545916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Drewcipher
I WIN!!! My girlfriend is also a reefer. No conflicts!!!

Man oh man you are lucky. ;)

[Drewcipher]

Yes! Yes I am.

[ezcompany]

flow can kill fish.
its simple physics, we are creating an artificial environment so there are tons of room for error. if you are placed in an extremely windy environment and you happen to get food dropped shipped from a plane to you, does it make it easier for you to reach your food? same with fish. my clowns had a hard time chasing after tidbits of food with high flow (i'm talking about x90 turnover with nanostreams), pretty soon they got sick and weak. i transferred them back to little to no flow and they have bounced back with a great recovery.
unless your fish is a strong reef fish (tangs, anthias, etc.) then your fish is probably not designed to live in high turbulent flow.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9550927#post9550927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
flow can kill fish.
its simple physics, we are creating an artificial environment so there are tons of room for error. if you are placed in an extremely windy environment and you happen to get food dropped shipped from a plane to you, does it make it easier for you to reach your food? same with fish. my clowns had a hard time chasing after tidbits of food with high flow (i'm talking about x90 turnover with nanostreams), pretty soon they got sick and weak. i transferred them back to little to no flow and they have bounced back with a great recovery.
unless your fish is a strong reef fish (tangs, anthias, etc.) then your fish is probably not designed to live in high turbulent flow.

ezcompany,

Currently, I think my turnover rate it 75x per hour. I understand what are you are saying and thank you for the input. BTW I was wondering if you knew any other strong reef fish? Since my tank is a 40 breeder I cannot keep tangs. I would like to purchase SW fish more suited for my set up.

[xxseawolf]

i just turn of sump pump and power bar during feeding time.

[jefathome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9532423#post9532423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anjhof
I would think that natural sea water has far more potential for being contaminated than making your own with RO water. I have never heard of fish dropping dead because there was too much flow - there has to be somewhere in the tank where they can be sheltered from the flow, right?

Yeah, but he is in Hawaii, so it isn't like he is getting it out of Los Angeles harbor. I've used Catalina water for about a year, and it never caused a death.

[anjhof]

Good point. I actually didn't notice that when I first replied.
I still say there is more "potential" for contaminated water - albeit unlikely if he is collecting it off a natural reef. I could just see filling a jug of water from the harbor - How did this syringe get in my tank? Will it hurt my fish?

[ezcompany]

nvs, i think a few anthias would be a good choice for your system. (the hardier ones like lyretails)
a good sized clownfish will also do fine (clarkiis, tomatoes, etc.)

[xxseawolf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9552955#post9552955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
nvs, i think a few anthias would be a good choice for your system. (the hardier ones like lyretails)
a good sized clownfish will also do fine (clarkiis, tomatoes, etc.) is it ok to have a few anthias in a 40g? i have 1 in my 55g(and i thought i was pushing it) and wanted to add another 1 and was told not a good idea.

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9552718#post9552718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jefathome
Yeah, but he is in Hawaii, so it isn't like he is getting it out of Los Angeles harbor. I've used Catalina water for about a year, and it never caused a death.

Sorry, currently I am staying in Torrance CA and I am using Catalina water.

[jefathome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9553022#post9553022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by N_V_S
Sorry, currently I am staying in Torrance CA and I am using Catalina water.

Oh.. Ok.
My in-laws lived in Torrance until about 3 months ago (now in Fallbrook)

Anyway, a lot of places around here use the Catalina water. I have used it for about a year with no problems. The place I get it from (LFS) uses the Scripps NSW (collected near Catalina).

I doubt that was your problem. I think that the Chromis are the issue here since your other fish seem OK.

I had 3 chromis that all died within a few months. Nothing else was affected. Even my sensitive wrasse and inverts.

[jefathome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9552933#post9552933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anjhof
Good point. I actually didn't notice that when I first replied.
I still say there is more "potential" for contaminated water - albeit unlikely if he is collecting it off a natural reef. I could just see filling a jug of water from the harbor - How did this syringe get in my tank? Will it hurt my fish?

Haha...
OK, Which one of you fish has been shooting up again?

Actually, I use a syringe on my tank all the time to kill Manjos

[N_V_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9553147#post9553147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jefathome
Haha...
OK, Which one of you fish has been shooting up again?

Actually, I use a syringe on my tank all the time to kill Manjos

You guys are too funny :lol: