225 FOWLR Filter Question (Is this enough?)

[fantastic4]

Posted this originally in the Large Reef tank area, however, I'm not certain if that was the right place as this is a FOWLR, however, it's a rather large tank, any help is appreciated as I have never gone this big before.


if the tank is

72" Length
30" Width
24" Height

Approx 225g?

Planning on housing one medium to large Harlequin Tusk Australian, one medium Blueface Angel and either one medium Yellow Tang or medium Yellow Eye Kole Tang for algae control.

The big question... Will the tank be healthy with the following filter setup.

Approx 100lb live rock (prefer light rock work esthetically)
Eheim Professionel II 2028
Eheim Professionel Wet/Dry Canister 2229

1 Durso drain leading to 60 gallon rectangular refugium with 10" live sand and the rest all chaeto, pumped back by Eheim 1262 pump

My thoery is the 60 gallon tank filled with live sand and chaeto will control the nitrates and buffer/filter the sediments and excess nutrients.

Never had a tank this big before, any help is appreciated. Again, this is intended to be a tank to house a trophy Harlequin and Blueface, the live rock is only intended for hiding places. A 4 to 5 inch sand bed will exist in the display tank. Lighting will be MH with T5 (for shimmering effect and T5 blue for balanced color and to bring out colors in the fish).

Also, am I forced to do a closed loop or Tunze wavebox for circulation in a rectangular 225?

Thank you

[aquaman67]

This sounds like it will be a really nice set up.

By my calculations you are spending about $650 on the two filters. I looked them up on Marine Depot so others can see what you're thinking about using.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~EH2229.html

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_filters_eheim_professional_professionel_2_canister_filters.asp?CartId=

I don't know if this is the best way to go or not for the money. Each filter will handle approx. 159 gallons by Eheim's calculations. I've never used Eheim filters and don't know how well they work. Maybe something like one of these would be a better choice? The larger one can handle a 400 gallon tank.

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_filters_precision_marine_wet_dry_trickle.asp?CartId=

You obviously like Eheim but for the same money ($130) you could get a Mag 12 for the return pump. The Mag 12 will 1200 gallons per minute VS the 900 Gallons for the Eheim. Even a Mag 18 (1800 Gallons per minute) is only $9 more than the Eheim.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=DN1129

I've had a Mag 9.5 on my 70 Fish Only tank for almost a year without being touched. (I'm in Iraq) I think the Mags will give you more flexibility as you can always throttle it back, but you can't make a pump put out more. If you want the lower flow a Mag 9.5 only cost $89.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=DN1127

I think over all your plan should work as long as you don't overfeed.

The lights might cause a problem. I had 96 PC watts on my 70 gallon and had an algae problem. I put on a single tube regular output T-5 (18 watts) and the problem went away.

Shimmer lines are nice, but with the excess nutrients from feeding messy fish and the extra light, algae might be a problem.

Keep us posted on your progress. I for one like to see build threads. I think the setup is the best part of fish keeping...

Good luck!

[DamnPepShrimp]

I don't see a skimmer? You'll definitely need one of those. You won't need as much filtration with only 3 fish, so that will be ok. I don't think you'll need to run a tunze or anything major, there won't be any corals. A few normal powerheads to keep the detritus up and into the filters. Like aquaman said, extra lighting could cause a major algae problem. I have PC's on my tank and algae grows up the glass faster then I can keep it clean!

[LisaD]

I have the same tank. I think it's a 210. I don't know much about the Eheim products, but aquaman 67 did a nice job of addressing those. If you are going light on the rock, a wet-dry might be a good way to go.

I would definitely get a decent skimmer. I also predict that down the road, you will find it hard to limit the tank to those three (great!) fish, and just in case, I'd make sure you had the capacity for higher bioload.

I'd go with a shallow sand bed. I am having terrible problems with hair algae in two lightly stocked tanks with established (>3 years old) deep sand beds - one tank is brightly lit with MH, the other has a NO fluorescent, so lighting is not the issue. When I redo those tanks, the DSBs are coming out.

Now, unless I have a fish that needs sand to burrow in, I go either bare bottom or with shallow sand beds (with my other six tanks).

[jda]

I have a 210 FOWLR and I have no filtration other than LR and a skimmer. I use about a 2" sandbed with some rubble on top to keep the fish from moving it around. I use sugar to keep the water clear, algae to a minimum (including coralline unfortunately) and N and P down.

[ralphie16]

for FO tank, live rock and skimmer is all you need. but get more live rock then 100, more around 150-200 lbs. your large carnivorous fish will produce waste in large spikes (shortly after feedings for example) so you need a capable biological filtration and 100 lbs of live rock might not do the job. skimmer is important. dont need any of the eheim crap. just get a banging skimmer and your done. i went barebottom and lots of flow. if you can deal without sand then barebottom will be a lot easier to deal with in a fish only tank.

[reefmvp]

you definitly need more live rock 1 to 1 1/2 lbs per gallon of water.
the live rock helps a great deal in controlling nitrates. also i would skip the ehiems and put a sump with fuge and liv rock, and most importantly a good skimmer (eg...ASM 4x) and you will be fine. IMO if you skip the fuge it would be fine with the extra lr, fuge is more for reef tanks. i have a mag 18 for my returns in my 120 and if great, i think the ehiem would be too weak, for you i would go with a mag 24 ( you only have one overflow ?)

[fantastic4]

Thank you all very much for your great feedback!

I have read the replies with great anticipation and appreciation. The reason why I'm going for Eheim Canisters [1 wetdry and 1 mechanical] is the fact I have them running on my 60g FOWLR. I have had a lot of luck with the Eheims, and a refugium. The water has consistently remained crystal clear. The tank runs ultra quiet. So I figured I may be able to increase the tank size by upsizing refugium, but at 200+g I have heard one must do research as the issues are significant.

My new project is to upgrade to a 200+ gallon FOWLR and convert the 60 to a refugium under the main tank. I have already purchased 2 Ice Cap 250W Mogul Kits with German 10ks from Marine Depot and their waiting in the garage. I have been also considering simply going with no canopy and adding a AquaMedic 72" MH/T5 hanging fixture as I love the look of open top tanks with modern contemporary lighting (that elegant sexy look). The PC lights on the 60g will stay on the 60 when it converts to a refugium. The reason for the single durso 1" drain and the single Eheim 1262 was that I was afraid the current would be to strong with two durso drains leading to the refugium as I'm striving to build a slower moving refugium. It makes alot of sense to go for more power with a Mag and then restrict flow back to the tank if needed, alowing flexibility if needed.

Something was teling me that the MH and T5's would produce a lot of algae on the tank and rocks, now I'm sure of it after reading through your replies. The reason for the 24 height is ensure I can reach the bottom easily for cleaning, but I may rethink the lighting as you have suggested.

Also, thanks for the tips on the advise for adding more live rock, I think an extra 50 to 100lbs would probably not overwhelm the look of the tank given the width and length.

LisaD, do you love your tank? Any regrets on the size? Would you change anything? I figure 72" length is just long enough for the larger fish to stretch. The 30" width gives that deep cubish look I love and plenty of room to arrange rocks in any fashion and the 24" height is the max I can go being anto to reach down into the tank for cleaning and maintenance.

Also, as far as evaporation is concerned, how is everyone handling it?

My fears on a 200+ g were/are:
Filtration (now I have more confidence, thank you)
Circulation (answered, thank you)
Evaporation (not sure how I will handle yet, if I add a Top-off Control Module to a 5 gallon jug, is the 5 gallon to tiny?)

I'll update pictures of the tank during the build and after it arrives.

As for the drain, I'm planning on having two 1" drains drilled within the center back overflow, but only have one used and the other plugged, as this would allow flexibility in the future if I wanted more drainage. Do you agree with the 1" size?

Would a AquaC Remora Pro with Mag3 work well if I needed the extra nutrient export for this system? I have one laying around.

Thank you again aquaman67, DamnPepShrimp, LisaD, jda, ralphie16 and reefmvp.

[LisaD]

LisaD, do you love your tank? Any regrets on the size? Would you change anything? I figure 72" length is just long enough for the larger fish to stretch. The 30" width gives that deep cubish look I love and plenty of room to arrange rocks in any fashion and the 24" height is the max I can go being anto to reach down into the tank for cleaning and maintenance.

Actually, my tank is almost 30" high and 24" wide - wish it had your dimensions. I regret using the stock black pine (All Glass Aquarium) stand, and not getting a better quality and taller one with more head room underneath. My skimmer is very cramped, can't get to things too well underneath. With my taste in fishes, this tank is starting to look small. If I had a basement, I would go something like 8' x 30" wide x 2' high. I did have the floor joists in my house reinforced for this tank, which is against a load bearing wall. I had to put off filling it (this weekends project) because my husband was interviewing for a job that would require us to move. He found out this week he didn't get the job, so now I am full speed ahead.

Also, as far as evaporation is concerned, how is everyone handling it?

It's not so bad with my long established 120 FOWLR. I just fill to a line every couple of days with top off water in a bucket. Not more than a few gallons. It doesn't seem to bother the fish any.

Would a AquaC Remora Pro with Mag3 work well if I needed the extra nutrient export for this system? I have one laying around.

I think you can use a Mag 3 with this skimmer, and it would help, though it is not nearly enough skimmer for the tank. It would still be better than nothing, but I recommend you get a decent skimmer when you can and place it in the sump. I use the Remora Pro on my lightly stocked 120, and it does an ok job.

BTW, I am a BIG believer in refugia for FOWLR tanks, not just reefs. I think they are great for nutrient export when you fill them with macro (I use razor caulerpa and chaetomorpha). Also, the pods and gammarus are eaten by the fish. I think the diversity of organisms can only add to the stability and health of the system.

I like the advice of putting live rock in the sump (rather than bioballs in a wet dry, which can be nitrate factories). Keep the live rock light in the display if that is the aesthetic you like, but do invest in the recommended amount for good filtration. I've been keeping marine tanks since I was 15 (in the '70s) and so I have seen many changes in the hobby. Live rock based biological filtration is the best for having a stable, healthy and robust ecosystem.

Good luck with the tank and your prize fish, looking forward to seeing your pics.

One last piece of advice - spring if you can for the best and highest capacity equipment you can afford, especially in filtration. I have spent SO MUCH money buying what I thought I could afford, then replacing it, several times, until I had the right equipment for the job!

[aquaman67]

Good call on the skimmer. I have an ASM G-2 on my 70 FO. Overkill? Yes!

If you have a Remora Pro with a mag 3, then I'd use it but plan to upgrade later.

Two 1" drains should be enough.

72 X 30 X 24 = 51840

51840 / 231 = 224.4

IMO, this is a 225 gallon tank.

[LisaD]

BTW, I didn't mean the Remora Pro is NOT a decent skimmer, it is, but it is more appropriate for a 75 gallon tank, IMHO. On my 120 it is adequate, but just barely, and that tank is understocked.

[reefmvp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9547951#post9547951 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaman67
Good call on the skimmer. I have an ASM G-2 on my 70 FO. Overkill? Yes!

If you have a Remora Pro with a mag 3, then I'd use it but plan to upgrade later.

Two 1" drains should be enough.

72 X 30 X 24 = 51840

51840 / 231 = 224.4

IMO, this is a 225 gallon tank.
a g2 on your 70 is find definitly not overkill, IMO rather have a bigger skimmer than underskim. anyway the manufacturers ratings for their skimmers are always over rated, if the say up to 200gal that really means 100gal, so i think you are fine