Qualified opinions on sandsifting stars?

[The0wn4g3]

I've been debating on whether I should get a sandsifting star or not. As of right now I only have 5 nassarius snails to mix the sandbed (which is ~2in.) They try hard, but they aren't large enough effectively rotate the sand all the time.
I've heard very mixed opinions on sandsifting stars in reef aquariums. They seem to do a great job of moving sand, but some people swear against putting them in a reef tank.
Why is this? Is there a more effective alternative to the star?

Thanks !
PS: A sandsifting goby is not an option for me =(

[dc_909]

I like my Orange spot goby. Does a great job.

[The0wn4g3]

I've had diamond gobys in the past and they are great little fish, very hard workers most of the time. But I have a watchman goby paired with a pistol shrimp, so I'm not able to add another goby =(

[awestruck]

I am not an expert but Dr. Shimek is. He adivses (quite strongly I believe) against sand sifting starfish for 2 reasons: 1) they eat all of the beneficial organisms essential for filtering your tank, and
2) they eventually starve to death unless they are in a REALLY big tank. Diamond and orange spot gobys are great as are astrea and nassarius snails. Oh, and black cucumbers.

[Paintbug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9579811#post9579811 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by awestruck
I am not an expert but Dr. Shimek is. He adivses (quite strongly I believe) against sand sifting starfish for 2 reasons: 1) they eat all of the beneficial organisms essential for filtering your tank, and
2) they eventually starve to death unless they are in a REALLY big tank. Diamond and orange spot gobys are great as are astrea and nassarius snails. Oh, and black cucumbers.

that pretty much sums up my thoughts on them as well. a 2" sandbed in a 46g tank is not going to keep a sand sifting starfish alive very long. i would just add a few ceriths to the mix.

[papagimp]

I kept one in my 55g for a long time, well over a year and within that time I noticed my sandbed getting cleaner and cleaner until I eventually noticed absolutley no life in it whatsoever. All my wormies were gone, didn't see any pods running around or nothing. They will decimate the micro fauna as this is there food source. Best to leave it alone and in the ocean. They may be considered "reef safe" but are definatly not "sandbed safe". They're far more effective methods than a starfish.

[ocellaris06]

Really a good janitor to remove all organsims (good or bad) from the sand bed and then starve to die. I won't keep them. Some posts mentioned that they appear in lfs for they are easy to caught only.

[RBU1]

Well I have had my sand sifting star for about 4 years in my 75. My sand looks good and I have tons of life.......Go figure....I say get what you want!

[zoomfish1]

Agree with RBU1. 6 years with mine, tons of life. I really don't know why, other than the millions of pods in the refugum with about a 25lb wad of chaeto. I have only seen negative comments on the keeping of sandsifters, and I don't recommend anyone trying to keep one. The majority of folks must surely be right. I guess there are just a few exceptions to every rule.

There are a lot of other options to keep the sandbed clean. I would search out those and leave the sandsifters in the ocean.

[The0wn4g3]

Well, on the "eating all of the benificially organisms in the sandbed" point, I remove and rinse my sandbed once a week. After a few minutes in tap water I'm really not sure how many beneficial organisms are going to be left anyway....
I would think a sea cucumber would also consume beneficial organisms in the sandbed just like a star would.

Snails can't do the job.
I don't want to add hermits to my tank.
I can't use a goby.

What other options are there? I'm not dead set on using a starfish, but people are telling me "there are other means to keep the sandbed clean" yet nobody has specifially told me another viable option as of yet. Any other ideas ?

[a1amap]

I have a queen conch and it moves around my 75 gallon. Always on the sand bed turning it all up.
Al

[bertoni]

The problem with the queen conchs is that they grow to over a foot in length, or try. The fighting conchs stay a more reasonable size for a 75g tank.

[saltpeter]

Stay away from sifting stars , they eat the goodies in your sand then starve when there's no more goodies .

[Abynum1]

Well one thing is for sure, If you are removing and rinsing your sandbed with tap water every week (why??), the sandsifting star will certainly die and at a much quicker rate than most!
So regardless what people offer up as suggestions, lack of another option doesn't justify killing this animal.
With that being said I would check into some of the brittle stars and mini brittle stars.
Do some research on marine inverts and you'll find that there are several better choices out there.

[Abynum1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9596286#post9596286 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltpeter
Stay away from sifting stars , they eat the goodies in your sand then starve when there's no more goodies .

He doesn't have any goodies, he's rinsing his sandbed every week with tap water.:confused:
I guess his/her Mandarin is eating frozen food.

[Duddly01]

I actually bought a sand sifting sea star to keep the sandbed clean in my seahorse tank. I think I got a weird one. It seems to do a better job of cleaning up the left over mysis than cleaning the sand. I was shocked to see it hover over to and on to the rock I use as the feeding trough. It twists its arms to get pieces out of nooks in the rock. The sand doesn't look any better. Most of the time it is buried in the sand. When it comes out it literally looks like it hovers. It has actually climbed the glass and over the rock work. It only seems to go into the sand to bury itself and hide. :rolleyes:

[dippin61]

SS stars can easily wipe the life from a 5" sand bed in a 75g tank in as little as 2 months.

SS stars are not suited for our hobby, and should be left in the ocean to clean its sand.

and when you actually see a SS star in your tank, ie: on top of the sand/rocks/glass.. that means its hungry, and its looking for food that is not in the sand.

technically if the SS star is thriving and doing well, you'd never see them.

[zoomfish1]

4g3, why in the world do you remove and rinse your sandbed? You don't seem to have that heavy a bioload for a 46g tank.

Surely you know that the sanbed contains most of the beneficial bacteria for a reef tank, along with all kinds of micro organisms.

Just don't understand why you would need to remove and rinse the substraite. I think most of us would agree that it is best to not disturb the sand at all. But, I guess if it works for you, then good luck. BTW, I have been known to do some unorthodox things with my tank also.

[ahullsb]

Buy a cucumber. I loved my goby but once he decided to try skydiving I have thought of going the cucumber route. Someone else help me out....is it a tiger tail or something like that. Brown and white I believe

[The0wn4g3]

The reason I remove and rinse my sandbed is because I am using it purely for aesthetic reasons. I'm not depending on it as a type of biological filtration, I'm depending on my live rock for that. I suppose it's somewhat like a barebottom system, just without the barebottom =)

If I can find something to keep the sandbed looking white and not brown, I won't have to clean the sandbed anymore. That's what I want to happen of course.

Do sandsifting cucumbers not wipe out all of the life like stars do? I was trying to avoid cucumbers but if it works I could get a small one and try it.

About he mandarin, he does eat brine shrimp, but not very much at all. I've had him for months, and I know many people advice against mandarins in anything small then a 75. Mine is quite active and I always find pods in the filters and such.
Just on a side note though, does anyone know if mandarins would eat adult live brine shrimp? Like the Tampa Bay Saltwater freeze dried egg that you can hatch? Just wondering... I bet he would enjoy that.

Thanks for the help.

[sjj80]

Could it be possible that the sand turns brown from nitrates/silicates/phosphates found in the tap water you are using to rinse the sand with? I would stop rinsing the sand all together or at least stop rinsing with tap water and start rinsing with RO/DI.

[Abynum1]

Get some brittle stars and micro stars (assuming you will stop rinsing the sandbed when you do.)
Theres a book, "marine Invertebrates" by Ronald Shimek
It'll let you know what all the different inverts will do,what they need,and if they are reef safe or not.
You can find several options there.

[trae]

Thgey become a hassle after all the goodies are gone then you have to stuff the sand with tidbits for them like meat pieces and seaweed.