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View Full Version : Nitrate problem has led to ICH....please help!


doowain9999
04/02/2007, 12:18 AM
I had been in and out of the house the past 4 days and was only able to pay attention to my 72 gallon bowfront for quick feedings. Well, today, I noticed that one of my ocellaris clownfish was missing. I looked all over for him and I found him (what was left anyway :( ) inside the intake to one of my powerheads. I removed him, cleaned up the powerhead, and tested the water.

My ammonia was a little higher than 0, which I expected, but my nitrates were near 80 ppm!!!

After I saw this I did a close inspection of all of my fish. My other ocellaris looks fine, but my dragon goby is acting funny (he never stops sand sifting, but he is sitting on the bottom, doing nothing, only occasionally moving). Also, my powder blue tang is acting OK, but I believe he has ICH (on his pectoral fins and a couple spots on his tail). Also, my toadstool is not looking so hot. All other corals are peachy, for now.

First question: Will water changes be the best and only solution to lower the nitrate? And how much and how often should I do the water changes to get it back to 0ppm?

Second question: What to do about the ICH? As much as I don't want to lose anything in the tank....I have two main concerns. My clownfish (had her for 4 years) and my Powder Blue. What is the best solution to treat for the ICH? I understand that copper is the best treatment, but I know not to treat the main tank with it. Problem is....I just tore down my 29....so now I don't have a QT. (Powder Blue was last fish I was going to add....been in there 3 months). Are there any treatments that are reef safe for ICH? Any chance that the PB will be able to fight off the ICH once I get the nitrate under control?

For what it's worth, I have a UV sterilizer currently running on the tank as well.

Thanks in advance.

serpentman
04/02/2007, 06:43 AM
First, with regards to your nitrate problem, you need to get that down ASAP. Which test kits are you using? I would confirm your levels. Then, if they are truly that high, massive water changes (50%) will help bring them down to a tolerable state. Personally, I would do this every 1-2 days until you get them below 20ppm. This is only a band-aid but will help save corals, etc. Next, I would consider a refugium. This will help you manage nitrates down the road.

As far as ich is concerned, I would start with replacing the UV sterilizer bulb. Then you have a couple of treatment options. One is to stabilize your water conditions and hope for the best. Chances are there will be casualties with this option. Second is to remove all your fishes to a QT tank. If you don't have another aquarium, a rubbermaid tub will suffice. This will allow you to treat your fish with either copper or hyposalinity. This will have an additional benefit as it will help bring down the nitrate in your main tank. Without fish to add waste, things should settle down quicker.

murfman
04/02/2007, 06:58 AM
Nitrates are not as big a deal as some think. Some corals actually need nitrate for good growth. Critters that don't really like nitrates are your inverts less the clams. I regurlary had my nitrates over 80, when the tank was relatively new.

I doubt very much that the nitrates are the cause of your ich outbreak.

Water changes will get your nitrates down, as well as any nitrites and ammonia.

Purple Penguins
04/02/2007, 07:05 AM
I dont know if I personally would do that many 50% water changes, I would do 25% myself and then small 5-10% water changes everyday for a week if i was that worried, that many 50% water changes is going to cause your tank to cycle all over again which will eventually get all your perams to go up

1SickReefer
04/02/2007, 07:19 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9626400#post9626400 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Purple Penguins
50% water changes is going to cause your tank to cycle all over again which will eventually get all your perams to go up

You can do 90% wc's is you want, it will NOT cause a cycle. Can you please describe your theory that the tank will cycle all over again by adding clean fresh saltwater??

1SickReefer
04/02/2007, 07:31 AM
O and high nitrates does not cause ICK either. The ick was present in your tank and the high trates caused some stress with lead to the outbreak.

If you tank is ick free, no amount on nitrates, nitrites, or ammonia is going to cause a parasite to just appear.

doowain9999
04/02/2007, 08:17 AM
I know that ICH is present on all fish, but only appears whenever they get stressed and such. I was saying that the elevated Nitrate levels have caused the ICH to come to the forefront. That's what I meant by "Nitrate problem has led to ICH".

Is a full outbreak imminent? Will the water changes stop it or will the ICH still go through it's life cycle?

1SickReefer
04/02/2007, 08:25 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9626774#post9626774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by doowain9999
I know that ICH is present on all fish, but only appears whenever they get stressed and such. I was saying that the elevated Nitrate levels have caused the ICH to come to the forefront. That's what I meant by "Nitrate problem has led to ICH".

Is a full outbreak imminent? Will the water changes stop it or will the ICH still go through it's life cycle?

ICK is most certainly NOT present on all fish. There are many many tanks here on RC that do not have ICK, ICK is a parasite and needs a fish to live, no fish for 6 weeks in a tank = NO ICK. where did you get your info, a LFS I bet? here is some info on ICK give it a read.

Marine ICK (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html)

Hyposalinity Treatment (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html)

doowain9999
04/02/2007, 09:23 AM
Hrm....I've actually read on here that ICH is present on all fish or is present in all aquariums but is controlled. It's when they get stressed that it appears. How else would the ich have been introduced to my tank? It certainly doesn't live on rocks. You said yourself that it needs a fish to survive.

Shagsbeard
04/02/2007, 09:35 AM
It's present in all poorly maintained tanks. You can run a tank without ich... it just takes care.

You introduced ich to your tank when you added livestock to it. It's a safe bet that any fish from an outside source, even the wilds, carries ich. To have an ich free tank you need to quarentine and treat all fish before you introduce them to your tank. It's not so much work, and if done correctly isn't stressful to your fish.

1SickReefer
04/02/2007, 09:35 AM
It can be introduced by anything wet from another tank that contains ICK, rock, coral, sand, tools. Any recent additions of any kind recently?

There are a lot of myth's concerning ICK, read those articles, those speak of facts by known researchers.

Now, with all that said, a tank can have ick and all fish show no signs of the parasite, a healthy fish in stable good water parm can show immunity to ICK over a period of time.. If the fish is stressed than it may be more suitable to the parasite.

Take for instance my tank, I have ick and I know it, I don't QT, dumb I know.. but I feed a very healthy varied diet, maintain excellent water quality and I don't have fish that are aggressive towards other tank mates.. they show no visible signs of ick, only when I make radical changes, ie; redo rock work, move the tank etc does my hippo tank show a few spots. after everything settles down the spots disappear for many months till I fool with something else.

murfman
04/02/2007, 09:46 AM
According to the article, during part of the lifecycle, ich lives in the substrate to reproduce.

1SickReefer
04/02/2007, 10:01 AM
A quote from that article,

If an aquarium has no fish in it, and there are no additions of fish, or anything else that could be carrying trophonts, tomonts, tomites or theronts for a period of 6 weeks or longer, all parasites will have died. An aquarium such as this is an obvious exception to "Ich" always being present.