Phyto: Direct or Indirect

[Rovert]

Ok, so the debate goes on about whether it's better to feed direct or indirect, and the jury is still out on the verdict. What I want to know is if feeding indirect (placing phyto directly into the tank water), what is the recommended procedure?

There are two methods I'm wondering about.

1) Turn off the main pump and let the tank water circulate with the two power heads I have. In this case, how long would you allow the main pump to be turned off, to permit the phyto enough time to be consumed by the clams?

2) Run the main pump (turn off the skimmer) and let everything just bounce around. Again, in this case, how long would you wait before turning on the skimmer to ensure that you don't extract the (very expensive) phytoplankton that you just put in?

Thanks!

[mbbuna]

3. just add it to the tank, dont turn any thing off

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9707318#post9707318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mbbuna
3. just add it to the tank, dont turn any thing off
So, you're saying not to turn off the skimmer?

[Rovert]

Helloooo?

[GreshamH]

I see no need to turn of the skimmer as well. I never do. It causes more harm to my impellar then the little loss of phyto does to my pocket book.

[a4twenty]

i turn of my skimmer and sump but leave the powerheads going for circulation.

dose phyto and cyclop-eeze.

30 min later turn sump back on.

approx 3 hours later, i turn the skimmer back on.

[Krazy]

I leave the skimmer on, I sometimes turn off my return pump and just let it stay up in the display for 20 mins or so...

Most of the time, I just keep everything on....

:p

[Bubbashrimp]

Maybe you are using too much phyto? Maybe if the phyto is to expensive you should start culturing your own. That is what I did when I was paying ~=$15.00 for DT's(large bottle). I also found out that Thalassiosira(Reed Mariculture), T-ISO(working on a supplier), and Tetraselmis(CCMP) are digested easier by copepods. Dont get me wrong though I still use DT's because it is a wonderful product with excellent processing, It also is best to mix phytos. This information I have learned throught the copepod research and it might help you to save some money. It also might be cheaper by volume for you to purchase "phyto feast" or "shellfish diet" from Reed Mariculture(I have not done the calculation though) whom also has quality phyto. I Purchase both because both are good and maybe it will stop their marketing WAR!!!

[Bubbashrimp]

Sorry I wrote "cheaper by volume" it should be calculated by number of cells.

[Rovert]

Well, it's not so much the cost of it, as the waste of it that is the issue. I can afford it, but it just doesn't make sense to add it to the tank, only to skim it out. Kinda defeats the purpose.

I'm presently using PhytoFeast from Reef Nutrition.

[Bubbashrimp]

I am not a chemist, but I think after you add "trace elements" or anything else like this does it not get skimmed out as well?

Or perhaps you are an organized person and like to account for everything that goes in and comes out.

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9721339#post9721339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bubbashrimp
I am not a chemist, but I think after you add "trace elements" or anything else like this does it not get skimmed out as well?

Or perhaps you are an organized person and like to account for everything that goes in and comes out.
No, I'm a sensible person who would rather have the phytoplankton in the clam, rather than in a collection cup. As to additives, I don't presently use any, so I can't comment.

[reefkoi]

It sure does make for nice dark skimmate though ;)

[mbbuna]

i think people give there skimmers way too much credit. even if you dosed it right into the skimmer i doubt the skimmer would remove it all, but your not, your dosing it into the tank where the majority of it will stay.

[Bubbashrimp]

Are you giving an opinion?

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9725157#post9725157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bubbashrimp
Are you giving an opinion?
To whom are you directing this question?

[Bubbashrimp]

mbbuna, I am directing it towards. I would like to know were he found this information, because I think that the amount of gal/(unit of time) through the skimmer is interesting.

[DrDNA]

Are you adding phyto primarily for the clams, or for anything in the tank that will consume it? Just curious.
I add phyto too, I culture my own (sort of), I start with DTs and I am probably ending up with nanno. I just let the skimmer run but slow down by return from the sump by about 50% for a couple hours.
From what I have read, it seems the jury is still out on what clams really need for food additives (i.e. phyto). I got ahold of Fatheree's book and he cites a lot of references and I think the take-home message for me was basically that clams, providing they have good lighting, don't need phyto IF (a big IF) you are feeding your fish regularly and there is enough phosphate and nitrate in your system to fertilize the clam's own zooxanthellae. He also noted some references that maximas do actually eat nutrient-rich detritus particles of a certian size range. Also, under good lighting and good nutrition, clams will export proteins and extra zooxanthellae etc into your tank.
That said, if there isn't enough for them to eat and nourish their zoonxanthellae, then you would have to add phyto. I guess the bad part is that you don't know if your clam is not getting enough food on its own until it is too late.... is that clear as mud?? :) I thought so too :)

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9728426#post9728426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DrDNA
Are you adding phyto primarily for the clams, or for anything in the tank that will consume it? Just curious... I guess the bad part is that you don't know if your clam is not getting enough food on its own until it is too late.... is that clear as mud?? :) I thought so too :)
LOL!

Yer killin' me.

Yes, to all of the above. Clear as mud? :D

I bought the phyto for a 2" clam that I got from an LFS in my area, but by the time I got it in the tank, it was too late. I then obtained another clam (3" size, below), and wasn't going to take my chances, so I've been adding it periodically. Because there are other animals in the tank that might benefit (gorgonian, tunicates, blastomussa, sps, etc.) I didn't see the harm.

But in general, I was thinking primarily about the Tridacnids.

http://www.gothammarketing.com/rck/images/tank/DSCN2151.jpg

http://www.gothammarketing.com/rck/images/tank/tunicates1.jpg

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9726432#post9726432 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bubbashrimp
mbbuna, I am directing it towards. I would like to know were he found this information, because I think that the amount of gal/(unit of time) through the skimmer is interesting.

more observation then information. people seem to think that there skimmers will remove things very quickly from the water. they can, however they can only remove what gets to them and even then they will not remove everything. if you have a 100g tank and run 500g return theoretical you are processing your tank water 5x per hour but in reality every bit of that water isn't being processed. there's a lot of mixing going on in the tank, some things will pass right through the skimmer and some things will bypass the skimmer all together.

my sump set up is 2-100g tubs. the first tub holds my skimmer that is 2 to 3x over-sized for my system. all water from the display tanks go's into this first tub. i have my return flow rate set so its just a little faster then the flow rate through the skimmer. all the water from the skimmer go's directly into the second tub. the second tub is filled with sponges and feather dusters that grew there on there own. they made it through the skimmer and the food they eat is making it through the skimmer.

[Bubbashrimp]

Interesting.

[Rovert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9730397#post9730397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mbbuna
more observation then information. people seem to think that there skimmers will remove things very quickly from the water. they can, however they can only remove what gets to them and even then they will not remove everything.
Ok, but we obviously agree that the skimmer DOES remove SOMETHING, and if you're taking the time to feed the tank in the first place, I'd rather have the additives to into my animals, than into a collection up.

To each his own, I suppose.