nitrates and SPS

[hiepatitis]

I have a 55 gallon prop tank with no fish. I feed cyclopeeze every other day. Refugium with 2 inch sandbed and chaeto. Aquamedic Turboflotor skimmer. I've been monitoring my nitrate levels and they've been at about 10 ppm. How will this affect my SPS? I want to lower them as much as possible. I do weekly 10-15% water changes but can't keep up with the nitrate build up. Should I try a deeper sandbed? Increase the refugium photoperiod? Nitrate sponge? Clams? Any advice appreciated.

[toccata]

I don't get how you have high nitrates with no fish? I can't tell you how this will affect your SPS's but there are a few ways to get rid of the nitrates. It really depends on your situation what method. I have very limited space and had around 10-20ppm, with lots of fish in the tank. I gave up because of the space issues and bought a nitrate reactor. Nitrates are no longer an issue. I would not recommend everyone to do this as there are other cheaper more natual methods...

[somethingphishy]

How long has the tank been set up?what are the other levels in the tank?what kind of test kit are you using?Do you use ro water?
A few questions to awnser to have peole help you......

[REEF-DADDY]

10 ppm is nothing to worry about. Keep things stable and focus on export. You'll be fine....

[Denadai]

I never saw a tank with colorfull SPS with 10 ppm of nitrate....

Try to low them near to 0.05 pmm

Give a break with cyclopeeze

Regards

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9756500#post9756500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Denadai
I never saw a tank with colorfull SPS with 10 ppm of nitrate....

Try to low them near to 0.05 pmm

Give a break with cyclopeeze

Regards

Ive seen them. You dont have to have rock bottom nitrate to get good color. Po4 on the other hand can become an issue.

I had zero Nitrate in my tank for 2 years, and my colors frankly were washed out and dull. Since allowing them to raise to atleast detectable (probably 2-5ppm), my colors look much richer and the tank in general looks alot nicer.

[jackson6745]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9756500#post9756500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Denadai
I never saw a tank with colorfull SPS with 10 ppm of nitrate....

Try to low them near to 0.05 pmm

Give a break with cyclopeeze

Regards

The most colorful tanks that I have seen have no3 as high as 50ppm! These tanks did have low phosphate though.

[hiepatitis]

I had two anthias and a gold rim tang and a squirrel fish but I got rid of them. I think the nitrates may be from the cyclopeeze. I get RO water from a shop. I use Salifert. I did notice detritus at the bottom. Can this be my problem?

[Denadai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9758197#post9758197 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jackson6745
The most colorful tanks that I have seen have no3 as high as 50ppm! These tanks did have low phosphate though.

I really would like to see some photos from this tank and his SPS.....Do you have ?

Here in my tank, I have zero PO4 with salifert ( I know that is not the best test for PO4, but this is what I have here in Brazil )....and my NO3 now is 5 ppm with salifert...... but my colors is far away from where I want to reach......

Regards

[REEF-DADDY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9756653#post9756653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
Ive seen them. You dont have to have rock bottom nitrate to get good color. Po4 on the other hand can become an issue.

I had zero Nitrate in my tank for 2 years, and my colors frankly were washed out and dull. Since allowing them to raise to atleast detectable (probably 2-5ppm), my colors look much richer and the tank in general looks alot nicer.



Same here....

[Bryan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9759885#post9759885 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REEF-DADDY
Same here....

Ditto here. My corals have more color with a low level of nitrate as opposd to undetectable. I add Potassium nitrate to the tank.

[Denadai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9759936#post9759936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bryan
Ditto here. My corals have more color with a low level of nitrate as opposd to undetectable. I add Potassium nitrate to the tank.

I agree , but 10 ppm or more like 50 ppm is to high to me......I can´t imagine colorfull SPS...

I really like to see some photos from tanks with high NO3

Regards

[drives300]

I also have read that 5ppm nitrate is good for sps but how do you achieve this with keeping phosphates zero

[reefez]

I'm trying to figure that out right now too. I think it is a matter of walking a tightrope of many factors. You need bioload, but not too much to raise your paramaters too high. SPS are from the sounds of it happier with some detectable Nitrates and even some Po4. It is just a matter of finding that perfect balance in ones own individual tank. And stability is huge! Not dropping Po4 too fast if it's too high. No big temp or salinity swings etc. etc.

[jackson6745]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9759772#post9759772 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Denadai
I really would like to see some photos from this tank and his SPS.....Do you have ?

Here in my tank, I have zero PO4 with salifert ( I know that is not the best test for PO4, but this is what I have here in Brazil )....and my NO3 now is 5 ppm with salifert...... but my colors is far away from where I want to reach......

Regards

OK I'll see what pics I have :)

Here is my tank with 50ppm nitrates ( I now have them at about 5ppm)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/jackson6745/Picture429.jpg

A local reefers tank with nitrates around 20ppm
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/jackson6745/423e3097.jpg

A local reefers tank with nitrates that are very high! Sometimes he tells me 50ppm, I could have sworn he said 100ppm a few times :D
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/2/8/5/fulltank2web.jpg

[t5Nitro]

Hey jackson, can I ask what size tank that sohal is in? I wanted to keep one in my 125 but I don't think I can.

Thanks.

[jackson6745]

Nitro, that tang is in a 150gal

[deelucky]

J,them tanks are sick.

[acroman76]

I SEEN A 700 GALLON TANK WITH ACRO COLONYS THE SIZE OF 4 BASKETBALLS PUT TOGETHER WITH 50 PPM NITRATE AND HE SAID THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN HI. WITH GREAT COLOR

[fishsoldseprtly]

I think its more of your phospate than 10ppm of nitrates that is causing the issue. buy an RODI unit dude, it helps a lot

[Denadai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9761013#post9761013 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jackson6745
OK I'll see what pics I have :)

A local reefers tank with nitrates around 20ppm
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d39/jackson6745/423e3097.jpg


This colors is really great.....

jackson6745,

For how long did you have no3 around 50 ppm ????

If no3 is not a problem, why almost all post here people advice to low nitrate near to zero ??????

Regards

[jackson6745]

No3 have been 500ppm for about 4 months I guess. They were over 20ppm for a year. The reason why people say 0 nitrates is best is because along with high nitrate comes high phosphate and deteriorating water quality in general. Only reason why my acros were ok is because I kept my phosphate relatively low through the use of GFO's.
My colors look the same if not better with 5ppm nitrate now. With that said, I would conclude that nitrates don't effect color much at all.

[REEF-DADDY]

500 :eek:

[Kubi]

Here are a couple of pics. My No3 average from 10-25ppm

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/kubinski/IMG_4937.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/kubinski/IMG_4934.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/kubinski/IMG_6589.jpg

[jackson6745]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9764774#post9764774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REEF-DADDY
500 :eek:

Yikes that was a typo :D I meant 50ppm

[Marcio]

Hi tehere folks!

I'm also quite surprised to see such colorfull acros with high NO3 levels. If they are colorfull in nature with close to zero NO3 levels why would they get nicer colours otherwise?

regards.

[Horace]

The reason tanks seem to be colorful with nitrate (IN MY OPINION) probably has something to do with nitrogen. Many of our tanks that have zero nitrates and zero phosphates are under fed, and thus lack nitrogen (My tank was one of them). As soon as I started feeding the fish more (thus feeding the corals more), the coral color intensified.

The main difference between the ocean and our tanks is, the ocean has a CONSTANT supply of nitrogen via natural foods. We do not have a way to feed our tanks like the ocean does and still keep nutrients in check. So to compensate for lack of food, having a bit of No3 in the tank will help provide the needed nitrogen on a constant basis. W/out that No3, many tanks are starved and lack in both color and growth.

Again, I would note, this is ALL MY OPINION.

[Bryan]

..this is why I turned off the skimmer. Six weeks so far and no ill effects. Corals are doing great and a few are coloring up due to the increased nutrients in the water column. But this is a whole other topic.

[Marshall]

I ran GFO for a long time and had zero phosphate by deltec/merck kit. Nitrates about 20+ ppm. The corals did not grow fast and were somewhat browned out. I removed the gfo for 6 weeks, phosphates went up, nitrate stayed about the same.

Corals didn't change much as far as growth or colors but lots of dirty algae. I recently brought the nitrates down to 2-5ppm with no GFO and the growth and colors have taken off from what they were. Just my experience...

[conorwynne]

Bryan, surely turning off the skimmer will allow the plankton to bloom, thus feeding your coral (and fish), and lead to more intense colours?

How do people deal with algae control with such conditions?

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9784530#post9784530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marshall
I ran GFO for a long time and had zero phosphate by deltec/merck kit. Nitrates about 20+ ppm. The corals did not grow fast and were somewhat browned out. I removed the gfo for 6 weeks, phosphates went up, nitrate stayed about the same.

Corals didn't change much as far as growth or colors but lots of dirty algae. I recently brought the nitrates down to 2-5ppm with no GFO and the growth and colors have taken off from what they were. Just my experience...

How exactly did you go about removing your Nitrates?

As for stopping the use of GFO...I have no idea why you would want to do that. Po4 is bad news all togeather. Po4 will stunt growth and does cause corals to brown. I have a very very hard time believing that removing the GFO had any postive effect on the tank.

[Bryan]

Just the basics, frequent water changes, carbon and the occasional use of ozone. I don't have a sand bed and use filter floss to mechanically remove detritus in the sump. Knock on wood so far so good.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9784864#post9784864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by conorwynne
Bryan, surely turning off the skimmer will allow the plankton to bloom, thus feeding your coral (and fish), and lead to more intense colours?

How do people deal with algae control with such conditions?

[Marshall]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9785429#post9785429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
How exactly did you go about removing your Nitrates?

As for stopping the use of GFO...I have no idea why you would want to do that. Po4 is bad news all togeather. Po4 will stunt growth and does cause corals to brown. I have a very very hard time believing that removing the GFO had any postive effect on the tank.

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to get across. I was not trying to say that phosphates are in any way good... nor was I promoting the removal of GFO. I was saying that po4 removal alone was insufficient in my case. I required the removal of nitrates as well as phosphates in order for my colors and growth to improve. I lowered my nitrates with a lot of water changes and by running zeoliths. I intentionally left that out to avoid any inflammatory discussion about zeolith media.

[Esper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787062#post9787062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marshall
I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to get across. I was not trying to say that phosphates are in any way good... nor was I promoting the removal of GFO. I was saying that po4 removal alone was insufficient in my case. I required the removal of nitrates as well as phosphates in order for my colors and growth to improve. I lowered my nitrates with a lot of water changes and by running zeoliths. I intentionally left that out to avoid any inflammatory discussion about zeolith media.


it sounds like you changed too many variables at once to tell exactly what caused the change in coloration, but at the very least it sounds like the net effects of your actions (i.e., lower nitrate & phosphate measurements) was beneficial.

thank you for providing complete information, and i understand your desire to avoid conflict! we need to look at everything that is going on before making any guesses.

[Denadai]

Well, my no3 used to be high.....I measured yesterday and my po4 and no3 hit 0 with salifert.....so far so good....in 2-3 months I hope I can have colorfull SPS

I still don´t believe that with 50 ppm of no3 you can achieve colorfull SPS

Regards

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787062#post9787062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marshall
I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to get across. I was not trying to say that phosphates are in any way good... nor was I promoting the removal of GFO. I was saying that po4 removal alone was insufficient in my case. I required the removal of nitrates as well as phosphates in order for my colors and growth to improve. I lowered my nitrates with a lot of water changes and by running zeoliths. I intentionally left that out to avoid any inflammatory discussion about zeolith media.

While you wanted to avoid conflict, you left out a pretty key item in the equation. The addition of zeoliths means your usign a bacteria driven system. A bacteria driven system is supposed to actually help feed the corals, which may be the reason your seeing better results. In your case you changed the whole biology of your tank, so I dont think you can say for a fact that the reduction of your No3 was the catalyst for your success.

Like I have noted, Ive personally seen some pretty awesome systems, with massive growth, that have elevated No3. The question is where the point where No3 starts browning exists, OR if there is a point at all. Its POSSIBLE that w/out Po4 brownouts wont even occur. The reason I say this is that most algae require both Nitrate/Po4. W/out any Po4, its possible the Zoox will not overpopulate the coral. The same theory applies to Macro growth. If your Nitrate or Phosphate limited the macro will not grow. The same logically would seem to apply to Zoox. However, I wouldnt want to be nitrate limited and have lots of phosphate...im sure there would be serious effects on the coral. Im not 100% convinced that is the case if your phosphate limited though.

[Marshall]

When I ran GFO for almost a year I had undetectable phosphates. I didn't have to clean my glass for almost 2 weeks at a time. I fed my fish a lot and had high nitrates. My corals did not grow very fast and the colors were browned out for several pieces. In fact the reason that I didn't do anything for a while was because I read all of these posts about how "the best SPS systems have nitrates around 20" or something to that effect. I had absolutely zero phosphates as far as my Merck/deltec kit would read but my things weren't going great except having no dirty algae to clean. So in my experience going with the very low no3/po4 method seems more tried and true than going for high nitrates and zero po4 through the use of gfo. Although I do recognize that for some people they can have high nitrates with better results. Maybe they are just using way better test kits or something to detect their nitrates. I would strongly urge anyone that is running gfo with high nitrates and who is unhappy to pull the GFO and get a strong biological nutrient export system going or use a denitrator and keep the GFO.

[Randy1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9756653#post9756653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
Ive seen them. You dont have to have rock bottom nitrate to get good color. Po4 on the other hand can become an issue.

I had zero Nitrate in my tank for 2 years, and my colors frankly were washed out and dull. Since allowing them to raise to atleast detectable (probably 2-5ppm), my colors look much richer and the tank in general looks alot nicer.

Can you do that and still have 0 P04??

Thanks

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9797553#post9797553 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy1
Can you do that and still have 0 P04??

Thanks

Yes you can... GFO is one way.

[Marshall]

Maybe after being nutrient poor for so long and making sure that any locked up phosphates are out of your rockwork, superficial sand, etc, THEN maybe you can raise your nitrates some more. But I think that locked up phosphates not readable on our test kits may be tied to higher nitrate systems and browned out corals even though they read with low PO4. Another theory :)