BM300 any news or updates?

[cweder]

How's it coming along?

[Creetin]

This is going to be one sweet model, Can't wait for it!!!
If you are thinking on a big skimmer this one's worth the wait.

[cweder]

I just want to know about how much longer. Its on my short list of possible skimmers. Since you can't wait for it, are you thinking of buying one too?

[Creetin]

LOL Yes i am torn between this and the external 250.

[Oliver P.]

Ok, here are some first infos.

1. Old Pumps but new Power:

The BM 300 is one of the first skimmers in the world with speed controlled Pumps. In this way it is very easy to adjust the skimmer and to play with the performance of each Pump.

Here is a short video of one of this pumps on a BM 250.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z55/ATIAquaristik/th_NewPump.jpg (http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z55/ATIAquaristik/?action=view&current=NewPump.flv)

One pump has an air-intake of more than 2000 lph at 35 Watt.

With the new Pumpcontroler on the BM 300 it is possible to change the performance of each pump in a wide range of -20% / + 80%.

More infos will follow soon.

Thanks,
Oliver

[mavgi]

it's just amazing one pump with the controller pull more then 2 standard pump on this BM250:)

[jman77]

Oliver P.
are you going to be redesigning the current BM-250 to have only one pump with a controller as well?

[Oliver P.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9923400#post9923400 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
Oliver P.
are you going to be redesigning the current BM-250 to have only one pump with a controller as well?

No, we will not change the BM 250. The BM 250 is perfect like it is.

The skimmerbody of the BM 300 is much bigger and the extra power of the pumps is pefect for the BM 300.

regards,
Oliver

[BreadmanMike]

Oliver P
When are you going to release the dimensions and price of the skimmer?

[mavgi]

this forum start to getting hot.... :lol:

[Oliver P.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9923610#post9923610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquaticman74
Oliver P
When are you going to release the dimensions and price of the skimmer?

The Footprint of the BM 300 is 13 x 16 and the total hight is 25.

I will show fotos or videos of the reaction chamber next week.

We will have the exact Price of the BM 300 in 1-2 weeks.

regards,
Oliver

[BreadmanMike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9923740#post9923740 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Oliver P.
The Footprint of the BM 300 is 13 x 16 and the total hight is 25.

I will show fotos or videos of the reaction chamber next week.

We will have the exact Price of the BM 300 in 1-2 weeks.

regards,
Oliver

Awesome! Thanks.

:)

[wolfpack]

10 days is in between 1-2 weeks. Any news.... ;)

[Creetin]

They will have something up soon. Its going to rock!!!
I would hold on if youre on the edge of buying a new skimmer.
This one will impress!

[wolfpack]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9984655#post9984655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
They will have something up soon. Its going to rock!!!
I would hold on if youre on the edge of buying a new skimmer.
This one will impress!

I'm impressed with alot of things... But not at the expense of value!

Any Idea'rs on costs? :D

[Oliver P.]

Hi,

Ok, as promised here (http://www.it-kontaktmanagement.de/bm3002.swf) is a short Video of a Prototyp BM 300. A video of the final BM 300 (with a little bigger skimmerbody that can handle 4000 lph of air) i will show at the end of this week. So, this video is only to give you an idea of the BM 300.

The Air/Water ratio of the BM 300 is 1:1. Just look at the reaction chamber that is completely filled with bubbles.

The BM 300 is made of 5 mm thick Acrylic and the Price including the Controller for the Pumps is 1390 $.

Thanks,
Oliver

[mavgi]

Hi Oliver

look impressive and everyone here wait to see the final picture of it .

it's great to see you decide to make it 5 mm thick and the price of that skimmer not bad at all for 4000LPH .

i just can't wait to see it run under my tank:lol:

best regards

michael

[Khaley]

Oliver -

I love my BM200 but I find myself in skimmer envy. I think I need a bigger tank so I can try out that beast!

Do you think you will make the controllable pumps available in the future for we mortals challenged with lessor water volume?

Thanks,
Kathleen

[Reef Sponger]

2,000LPH on each pump? Unbelieveable. I never took a look at this thread because I'm only looking for a BM160. What size tank will this skimmer support at it maximum setting of 4,000LPH? Just curious.

[TwistedTiger]

Very impressive amount of bubbles!!!! How about turbulence, is there less turbulence at the top of the bubble column than in some of the other models?

[Orangeman]

Was the audio mic just too close to the skimmer? It sounds like my dishwasher.

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9991444#post9991444 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Orangeman
Was the audio mic just too close to the skimmer? It sounds like my dishwasher.

the video look like the CAM was close and maybe some noise from the back but wit silencer you hardly hear it . this also shown
the power of those Sicce pumps.

[Orangeman]

No doubt about that. I like dem bubbles!

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9993906#post9993906 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Orangeman
No doubt about that. I like dem bubbles!


from the short video i know that this skimmer will be a beast :D

[skimmy]

yeah, considering what other companies would charge for a 4,000 lph skimmer...$1400 is CHEAP!!

absolutely LOVE the controller idea on the pumps...
i was thinking of trying to design an "automatic" skimmer, one that could detect nutrient levels in the water and adjust it's power accordingly, and POOF, this thing hits the market!
now if you could just connect the contoller to some sort of sensor that cant test how "dirty" the water is...im sure it could be done somehow, mabye a modified tds meter or something??

anyway, AWESOME skimmer guys, i cant wait to play with one:mixed:

[chaffey]

I had to turn my monitor counter clockwise just to see the video.

[Deepsea2005]

Where can you find a BM 300?

[Reef Sponger]

Not available yet, maybe before year end. The BM160 is being released this month.

[Deepsea2005]

Thanks Reef Sponger.

[kouz]

any news on Bm300 availability?:rolleyes:

[klam114]

I think it maybe quite awhile.

[hahnmeister]

Im waiting to see this pump as well. Sounds like a Tunze Turbelle® electronic 7400/2 (made by Sicce, very similar to the PSK pumps) to me with a meshwheel. Saaaayyy... I have one of those pumps laying around... I wonder how much an extra impeller is for that to mod...

[Oliver P.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10176522#post10176522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Im waiting to see this pump as well. Sounds like a Tunze Turbelle® electronic 7400/2 (made by Sicce, very similar to the PSK pumps) to me with a meshwheel. Saaaayyy... I have one of those pumps laying around... I wonder how much an extra impeller is for that to mod...

Hi Hahnmeister,

we are able to get 3000 lph with one of the pumps on the BM 300, now. Water/Air Ratio is 1:1. Here is a new Video (http://www.it-kontaktmanagement.de/adjust1.swf) that shows the performance of only one pump on a BM 250. In the video you can see that we can play with the pump in a wide range of 600 - 2600 lph. The BM 300 will have two pumps and can generate 5000 lph. I will explain later what we did.

Thanks,
Oliver

[Aquality]

Hello Oliver,

There seems to be ALOT of developments at ATI this past 6months or so?

Hope BubbleMaster 300 finds the RIGHT time, to make it's entry into reefing.

All my patience is disappearing ... Excited to hear HOW you achieve this kind of Air:Water output levels....

PS. I REALLY can't wait for the NEXT WAVE of innovations to sweep us down in SOuth Africa.

Your efforts are appreciated.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Regards
Liaquat Sain

[mavgi]

Hi Oliver

your mail box full.

regards
michael

[DeltecRules]

Oliver any updates on the BM300?

[cweder]

We're ready for an update! The market is closing in. Reeflo has an excellent skimmer out now and Bubble Kings are cheaper than ever. I am still waiting for an excellent, affordable, energy efficient skimmer for my sump and 500 gallon tank. Its been about 2 months. Give us something. Thanks

[Creetin]

LOL i wated 8 mos for the 250, so i would not expect it to be overnight. JMO
The orca's and bubblekings will always be there, Good things come to those that wait. :)

[reef / aholic]

There should be alot of things out before the end of the year!!!

[klam114]

Oliver P,
Saw a lot of turmoil on Zeo between KZ and ATB. Is ATi having the same delay problems on the BM300 is why it is taking so long for the release to USA?

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10789252#post10789252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
Oliver P,
Saw a lot of turmoil on Zeo between KZ and ATB. Is ATi having the same delay problems on the BM300 is why it is taking so long for the release to USA?

No ..........:lol:


Oliver , your PM box Full i send you Email .

Best Regards
Michael

[cweder]

Well, I got tired of waiting and grabbed a Reeflo skimmer for now. Sounds like the BM300 will be external? It also seems kind of small to handle all that air. Still looking forward to its arrival.

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10874060#post10874060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cweder
Well, I got tired of waiting and grabbed a Reeflo skimmer for now. Sounds like the BM300 will be external? It also seems kind of small to handle all that air. Still looking forward to its arrival.

the truth it's take a long time but there was some reason...

i saw the reeflo and i know ppl love it but from what i saw.... i think the BM300 will be more powerful i believe it's going to take more time till it will be available.

congrats for your new skimmer :)

[gcarroll]

any updates on this?

[hahnmeister]

Heck, Im even interested... a controllable pump: Its about time!!!

[jma1978]

It seems that the Bubble Master 300 is already released in Germany: BM300 (http://shops.venditio.com/meerwasser-onlineshop/katalog_php/1_1091192207671_1188413830673/1166699692531/ATI+Abschaeumer+Bubble+Master+300.html)

I know very little German, but Google does a pretty good job of transalting it (Translated Page (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://shops.venditio.com/meerwasser-onlineshop/katalog_php/1_1091192207671/1166699692531/ATI%2BAbschaeumer%2BBubble%2BMaster%2B300.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbubble%2Bmaster%2B300%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26cr%3DcountryDE%26rlz%3D1T4DMUS_enUS204US204%2 6as_qdr%3Dall)) and I'm pretty sure that is says Bubble Master 300 for 869 Euros.

So when do we get it here in the USA?

[jamesdawson]

I wish the German link had some pics. Hopefully won't be too long!

James

[Creetin]

I seen some beta pics awhile ago and it seems like its a monster!
Its going to be a workhorse. IMO
Well with as much copy's that are shooting out of china i agree with ATI holding out on pics till they are ready. Let the copy cats wait. If i were ATI i wouldnt release anything on the new controllable sicce's till i had patents in place.

[jamesdawson]

Lets hope 2008 is the year we get the BM300;)

James

[minras]

Hello,

We have in Lithuania :) it looks like bm250 skimmer but bigger in size and 3 sicce pumps :)

Bubble Master 300 internal:
up to 5000 litres

L 66 x W 32 x H 69(Clearing height: 70) cm
Waterflow: 4800 l/h
Airflow: >3000 l/h
Energy: 69-90W

[jamesdawson]

Greetings Minras,

Are they Direct Current sicce pumps with a controller to vary the voltage and speed/output of the pumps?

Thanks,

James

[minras]

Hello,

It's a standart sicce 2500 pumps without any controling :( it looks like BM250 but biger in size and one more pump.

[mavgi]

here some picture: 29" high 12"diameter 2 Ver. (from what i know in the past but can't confirm today....) 1 will be with controller the other one standard on both removal plate or base...


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/ATI-Bubble-Master-300.jpg



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/bubblemaster300.jpg

[jamesdawson]

Mavgi,

Are you saying that there will be a version with a controller/DC contollable pumps and another one without (standard AC pumps) and both skimmers will have a removable bottom plate?

James

[hahnmeister]

Ah, so it is a cone... just not the kind that we were expecting!

[jamesdawson]

Yea Hahn,

Whats up with the inverted cone in the body. Any advantages/disadvantages to this?

James

[hahnmeister]

Well, sure, there are advantages to this. The cone acts as a diffuser, spreading out the air and water as it reaches the top (even if it is only an inch or so of enlargement). Aqua Medic T5000's use a similar approach w/o a bubble plate. It is much better than running just, say, an 8-9" diameter pipe straight up the center. It also allows for plenty of 'sorting space' down below where the outlet is. Its pretty much like a cone shape skimmer in cross some ways, just with a larger midsection (like a cone skimmer if it was looking in the 'fat mirror' at the fun park).

The only thing that one could be critical of would be that the diffuser spreads out the air and water, only to have it hit the underside of the reducer. I wonder how this skimmer would perform if instead of its current reducer which looks like about 30 degrees from horizontal, if it was made with a reducer neck that was more like 70 degrees from horizontal, and then the neck.

I am sort of baffled at all the small pumps though. I would think that one larger one would be better from a profit standpoint. Then again, Im sure this wont be their highest volume skimmer (how many out there have tanks in the 500+ range to support it?), so making a pump just for it wouldnt make sense in the end.

Finding pumps that can beat Red Dragons and Eheims isnt exactly easy.

[jamesdawson]

I bet a Laguna would make a great substitution for the Sicce on this Skimmer. I'm looking very hard at getting this skimmer as I'm trying to put together a 500G system on a tight budget.

James

[reef / aholic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11635594#post11635594 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Finding pumps that can beat Red Dragons and Eheims isnt exactly easy.

I can not belive you??????

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/139055ATB_Air-Star1500.jpg

[jamesdawson]

Is that a Red Dragon copy?

James

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, but that pump in the EU costs way more than even three PSK 2500s do... and then you have to make the custom volute and everything.

Thats not a Red Dragon copy... its better. Same motorblock as the RD minis, more of a match to the pump that is on the RE Supermarine 200 it looks like. The airstar doesnt do the magnet/shaft swap of the RD's though... more stock Laguna than an RD. But you can take that up in the ATB forums for more info.

[mavgi]

hahnmeister:

sorry but i am not agree with you.


eheim pump can't compare to the sicce pump , no way .

as far as the laguna pumps i test almost all of them : 1300,1500,2000,2400, 5000, 7000 , i also did mod one like this one in the picture.... and run now the 1500 .those pump strong no doubt about it i was able even to pull 60LPM they make nice foam to but IMO the Sicce make nicer foam and bubble in the skimmer body.

i also saw in the past video of this BM300 run with 3 pump/controller i never saw any skimmer that make the same bubble like this one and i don't believe that even i will test any laguna pump with this skimmer body it will perform the same.

the truth is that this is a big skimmer and the pumps use 60/90 watt or more when they are run with the controller.
the way you can play with this skimmer to tune it you can't do with any other skimmer the only one that i can think today will be able to come close to it or maybe wll be better it's the big BK with th DC pump , but to know that someone need to test those skimmer to prove it...

[hahnmeister]

Mavgi, I never did compare the Sicce to the Eheim, so I dont know why you am not agree with me and sorry.

My comment was "Finding pumps that can beat Red Dragons and Eheims isnt exactly easy". I said this because compared to the vast majority of Red Dragons and Eheims out there, the PSK2500 has a higher air to water ratio. The best RD's seem to be about 1:3, the Eheims are higher (about 1:5 or 1:4, I cant remember), and the Sicce chugs along at about 1:1.5 So what is there to disagree about? Perhaps English with you not good so something otherwise yes?

But since you bring it up...
There are SOME eheims that are much stronger, higher power factor, quieter, and run much cooler. It is ironic though, if you look at ATI's own history: With mesh, ATI claimed it was able to get about 1800lph of air from a 1260/62 (that was 220v), before they went with the Sicce's. ATB can get 750lph of air with an eheim 1250 for some crazy low wattage. Thats a little monster.

The Laguna 1500 CAN easily do 2250lph of air for about 38 watts if modded right... with about the same air/water ratio as the Sicce. BUT, it maintains its power factor due to the extra PFC circuits, is much quieter, cooler, etc... and its not even all that large. It can match the Sicce in every way, even cost (unless you are buying Sicce's at wholesale), and on top of that, it can do this on a skimmer taller than 20". Thats the problem with multiple smaller pumps... poor pressure handling. At 30" high, I bet the pumps on this skimmer are pulling less than usual unless they are in deep water. What would you say... 700lph each? Maybe only 600... Say, what are the tested air readings on this BM300?

Oh, and unlike the others, the Sicce pumps are not okay for external use. I tried it, and yes, its possible, but they run very hot, and make some noise. Not as if ATI ever said they were okay for external use, but just making the point.

If you want to talk pumps though, perhaps you can start a new thread all together, or PM me. I dont want to show Reefgeek and ATI disrespect. I only meant to comment on their new skimmer. It looks good, dont get me wrong. I think their choice of pumps is actually very logical. I like the way they have gone with a diffuser/cone rather than a cylinder. It may not be a total design change, but its showing some real ingenuity over the previous Bubblemasters, wouldnt you agree?

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11639743#post11639743 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
hahnmeister:
...as far as the laguna pumps i test almost all of them : 1300,1500,2000,2400, 5000, 7000 , i also did mod one like this one in the picture....

Almost all? What, you chickened out on the 4200? Thats the fun one.

Well the 1300 is too hard to bother modding unless you have a moulded volute for it. Its performance is almost identical to the 1500, and the 1500 is the real gem to mod, so its hardly worth mentioning. The 2000 and 2400 are actually the same motor... so thats only one, and the 5000 and 7000 are just older versions of those same pumps (5000 is the old 1500 and 7000 is an old 2000/2400 motorblock). So in the end you have tested 2 pumps really. Not that there are many more to bother with... but 'all' is a bit much to say. What would be interesting is if you had tested all possible volutes or impellers for the pumps you did test. The volute and impellers are what determines the pump's capabilities in this application, so comparing your versions of modded 1500's to a Sicce, vs mine or ATB's, or even to a Red Dragon... well... is that fair then to say which makes nicer foam?

[mavgi]

my english not good it's correct , i'll try to explain better....



"At 30" high, I bet the pumps on this skimmer are pulling less than usual unless they are in deep water. What would you say... 700lph each? Maybe only 600... Say, what are the tested air readings on this BM300?"

i saw that pump on video pull 3000LPH 39watt with controller (one pump) so i don't know from where you type those # . unfortunately Mr' Oliver delete that video link the only way to see it is if he will post that video there again.

as far as external pump you can look on the first BM thread and see there that i said before that the Sicce can run quiet in sump but to noise for external....

about the pumps :

the 1300 not identical to the 1500 it's identical to 3000 ....
here it's the picture of the impeller of the 1300 and it's copy form PA website ) my 1300 was sent to Jeff he can confirm that it's the same impeller to...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/pin_wheel.jpg

and by the way this pump run on the Octopus skimmer moded with this impeller :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/pump-2.jpg


the 5000 are the same of the 2400 but there is a different the wheel impeller on the 2400 more wider then the 5000 .

the 5000 is not old block of the 1500 (maybe i am wrong but i don't believe so)

the 7000 not the same as the new the 2400 ...

here some pictures : front 1500 , middle 5000 , last 7000 for me they don't look same one to each other

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/PIC_0914.jpg


impeller :

the big is the 7000 the small is the 2400 :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/PIC_0899.jpg


the big is the 7000 the small is the 1500 :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/PIC_0909.jpg


here is the 2400 run with moded volut :

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/PIC_0599-1.jpg

if you will test all this pumps and mod them for example on 25LPM you will see that there is a different watt use between of the pumps.

maybe there is other type of laguna pump in the market which i don't know about them i will be more then happy if you can explain to me more about that .

i said before that the laguna pump are stronger then the Sicce pump and can pull more air but the Sicce make nicer foam and when i said that i mean to this : the way as the Sicce pumps make bubble size and the way as the bubble breaking before the foam the laguna pump don't perform the same and in the Sicce it's more nicer... again maby my english not well but i know what i test and compare...
also the only pump from those laguna that run realy steady and perform the same all the time after break in or feeding it's the 7000 the others take longer time till the bubble get steady and smaller and even if the pump make foam the bubble still big and it's take few hour till they reduce .

as i believe to (mayby i wrong but you can tell that) the laguna pumps you test it on Con skimmer body and not on standard skimmer body there is also different here because the shape of the skimmer , but if you was saw the video of the 2 Sicce that run on the first Real Con ATI skimmer that was the same size as the ATB XL design (and i talk about the first ver. of the ATB XL the 29" high with 16" bsae ) so you was realy was impressed as i was there wasn't any turbulence top of the plate (and the plate was look almost the same as the ATB without the big column...)



"Almost all? What, you chickened out on the 4200? Thats the fun one."

if this is the fun one why you chikened out of it..... :lol:

mod this pump and tell us the result.... i hope you have something like the volcano skimmer for this pump:lol:


i tell you honest i never look on ratio of pumps or skimmer.....
i look on performance on the skimmer body and what it's pull in the cup.....


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/PIC_0002-1.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/th_PIC_0046.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/?action=view&current=PIC_0046.flv)



Regards
Michael

[hahnmeister]

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/109227threadjacked-thumb.gif

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11641857#post11641857 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
...If you want to talk pumps though, perhaps you can start a new thread all together, or PM me. I dont want to show Reefgeek and ATI disrespect.

[jamesdawson]

Well I for one look forward to getting a BM300, questions is when will they be available here?

James

[Rwinfrey]

Greg said he was hoping in about a month or two he has them on order:D

[ostrow]

"At 30" high, I bet the pumps on this skimmer are pulling less than usual unless they are in deep water. What would you say... 700lph each? Maybe only 600... Say, what are the tested air readings on this BM300?"

I have to say I entirely agree with Michael on this, and this is based on personal, first-hand experience. Hahn you are way off base here.

The BM300, even without the controller, is going to be an amazing piece of equipment. Hahn, the cost of 3 Sicces is still about half of what RE charges for those RD pumps, so on cost too, you again seem to be way off base. Whether the Lagunas are as good, cost-efficient or reliable long-term, that may be a different issue. But against the BK skimmers, price-wise the BM300 will blow them away.

I'm interested to know if a controller will be needed for each separate pump or whether it will be one controller for the skimmer, and how that will work.

I sure wish ATI would do something about the connection of the pumps to the skimmer. That is such an easily-solved weak link, but is such a real drawback. If this gets worked out, I'm pretty certain I'd jump at the chance, when the controllable 300 comes out, to get one. Looks like a fantastic design.

[hahnmeister]

Wow, you guys arent reading what I am writing here...

So what are the readings on the BM300 then? From what I know of the PSK 2500's, they dont handle head pressure all that well... thats why the 200 and 250 are only about 20" tall after all. On top of that, these pumps are mounted at the bottom of a 30" tall body. Unless the skimmer is designed to sit in deeper water, that puts alot of back-pressure on these pumps. Even without the water's back pressure on the outlet, its still more than normal for these pumps. Usually they pull about 850-900lph of air, but at this depth... it wouldnt exactly be shocking if they only did 700lph per pump, would it? What exactly, is so off base about that?

I also never suggested Red Dragons, dont know where you got that from. As far as retail goes, a Laguna 1500 can be bought at $99 retail, and it can make 2250lph of air with a custom volute and for about 35-38 watts. If you compare that to a $110+ sicce PSK 2500... well... there is no comparison. Then again, ATI is most likely paying less than 1/2 that for the Sicces, and it makes sense since they use those pumps on their other skimmers. I doubt Askoll would make them as good a deal, and after all... they wont sell as many due to its size class, so developing a new technology for your smallest market isnt the best business idea. Thats where I actually agree with ATI/you/etc.

Once again, you need to read what I said: "Finding pumps that can beat Red Dragons and Eheims isnt exactly easy."

That statement, which seems to have started this whole thing, is not COMPARING, it is not saying Red Dragons and Eheims are better than Sicce's. Come on guys... use your reading skills please.

Oh, and mavgi, the 4200 makes enough air for two Volcano Skimmers. You will see it when the 24" diameter cone skimmer arrives.

[ostrow]

Usually they pull about 850-900lph of air,

Work on your math.

20x60=1200 -- this is the minimum they ought to pull when modded correctly, at 30" depth with 3 pumps.

25x60=1500 -- on a 1 or 2 pump skimmer that is short this is the minimum they should pull if modded correctly.

[frank arriaga]

when is it coming.

[frank arriaga]

when is it coming.

[hahnmeister]

Why would I work on my math? Why would you make such a snide remark? ATI doesnt make these pumps for 1200lph, they are made for 850-900lph. Most people that run them are getting just that. You cant have them tuned in that high if the pump is under greater back pressure... it will 'hit the wall' where the venturi is too small to allow for enough flow to make up for the back-pressure which is already slowing it down, so a 13mm venturi is pushing it... back to 15mm I bet. Dont make me get out my PSK's and find out...lol. Id rather just wait to see what ATI posts the output is in 110v.

Sure, if you want to mod them, Im sure you will get more. The problem with this is that the higher you mod them, the more finicky the pump becomes. And Sicce pumps are known to be more finicky/touchy than others. Even an eheim 1262 needlewheel normally at 900lph as a recirc about 15-20" from the top (as they are on deltecs, H&S, etc) would show considerable drop-off if used as a mix+feed at the bottom of a skimmer that tall, and thats a pump with considerably more pressure handling than the Sicce. The one fault of the Sicce is that it doesnt do so well with depth... so 700lph isnt exactly unlikely. Needlewheel Eheims that are recirc on 40-48" tall skimmers see their output drop from 900 to about 750lph. So do you still think Im way off base here? I knew the 'Sicce Fan Club' would be here, so I didnt want to say it, but I could see these pumps getting cut all the way back to 500lph unless the skimmer is designed to run in deeper water sumps (around 18" rather than the usual 8").

[ostrow]

The 850-900 isn't true.

It isn't true that they are finicky at 25-26lpm. I never had a startup problem with them once modded right.

They have no problem starting on my 30" tall skimmer, though they do pull less air. True, it is recirc so not sure if that helps it. May be.

Anyway, to my knowledge you've never owned an ATI skimmer and unlike others who you call "fans" have posted no performance photos or other evidence.

If another pump comes along that one can demonstrate is better, terrific! I'd switch no problem. I have no attachment to Sicce or to ATI.

But so far, hasn't happened.

[mavgi]

hahnmeister :

At this time i agree with you :D the way you mod the Sicce on your skimmer of course the pump pull about 850-900lph of air

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/Sicceskimmer1.jpg





<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11654032#post11654032 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
The 850-900 isn't true.


Anyway, to my knowledge you've never owned an ATI skimmer and unlike others who you call "fans" have posted no performance photos or other evidence.


But so far, hasn't happened.

Ditto

[hahnmeister]

Mavgi, I have also done the mod to get it up to 1200+lph (1200 is about the maximum before it wont start on its own) on that same skimmer... as per Shan/ORCA. I mean 'finicky' as in: They dont handle head-pressure well. Which is something we all agree on.

I have never posted performance photos or other evidence... yeah, so what. Huh? What are you talking about? Why would I? Is that even a valid point or something? The stock ATI PSK pumps do 850-900lph... why would I be posting something on that? Its ATI's spec... why would I have to prove it or something? Is there another conversation you two are involved in that I am not aware of, because what you arent making sense.

True, I have never owned an ATI skimmer, only seen them in action in person. I only own two PSK 2500s, so thats what I am basing my comments on (we were talking about pumps, werent we?). Nobody has seen the 110v BM300 in action, and you dont own one either, so how are you able to make comments about it either? Im not the one trying to prove something here... but it seems you are.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11654032#post11654032 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
The 850-900 isn't true.

It isn't true that they are finicky at 25-26lpm. I never had a startup problem with them once modded right.

They have no problem starting on my 30" tall skimmer, though they do pull less air. True, it is recirc so not sure if that helps it. May be.

Anyway, to my knowledge you've never owned an ATI skimmer and unlike others who you call "fans" have posted no performance photos or other evidence.

If another pump comes along that one can demonstrate is better, terrific! I'd switch no problem. I have no attachment to Sicce or to ATI.

But so far, hasn't happened.

850-900lph isnt true? Well then, you should tell ATI. Sure, you CAN get the pumps up to 1200, but thats not what the stock specs are.

Sure they are finicky... you can have two of the exact same Sicce pump modded up exactly the same, and one will pull 2-3lpm more than the other... no real reason. You can even swap out all the parts and still, one motor works different than the other. This has been talked about in several cases, esp with those pumps used by Shan at ORCA. If you dont believe me, ask him, he will tell you.

Making the skimmer recirc helps the pumps, yes. It eliminates back pressure on the pump because it is drawing from the same water column it is pushing back into. The only drawback to height on a recirc is the depth under the waterline that the pump must draw air down into. Mounting the pumps as 'single pass' like this, where they feed and act as the mixing pumps puts whatever back pressure there may be from the difference in water heights (between inside the skimmer and outside) right onto the pumps. This is where the pumps are finicky as well.

Let me clear something up here... asperating pumps that have a low water to air ratio, like this one (1.5:1) also are more sensitive to back pressure than pumps with a higher ratio, like 3:1 for instance. Its because they have less water to work with for centrifugal force inside the volute, okay? Thats all I was saying. And two 1000lph pumps of the same air/water ratio will have less pressure handling than one larger 2000lph pump. Sicce's are finicky, in a few ways. Im not saying they are bad pumps.

The only thing we need here is for ATI to provide us with some air numbers. Im just betting, because they are on such a tall body of water, that this thing must have to operate in at least 18" of water or the pumps must lose output rather fast.

Whats so hard to accept about that?

[mavgi]

hahnmeister :

you wrong i don't need or want to prove nothing...

as far as the BM300 i never post something that i didn't saw in my eye about it...

Mr' Oliver send me long time ago video's about this skimmer and i saw it in action (same on the Con skimmer) with the controller and i also saw the pump pull 2900LPH (the pump was connected to flow meter) . if i wasn't saw that i was never type any info about it .

i also said before that the link is not working anymore.... and the truth is that i never post it because i don't think i need to do it just Mr' Oliver and i believe you agree with that.

and by the way it was 2 Ver. of it and i was involve (mr' Oliver can confirm that) and if i want i was able to get the first model with controller in sep. 07 but i decide to wait till he do some changes.

and if you look on your thread about the new supermarine skimmer when you talk about the ATI con shape i told you then it's not.... from where i know that.... and here you see it's not con.

those pump with controller can pull 2900LPH it's sound crazy or unreal but i saw that.

[hahnmeister]

Mavgi, it is my understanding that the controller is not working with these pumps. I am talking about THESE PSK 2500 pumps on THIS skimmer, not some other combo.

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11657319#post11657319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Mavgi, it is my understanding that the controller is not working with these pumps. I am talking about THESE PSK 2500 pumps on THIS skimmer, not some other combo.




from what i know (last PM from Oliver) 2 Ver. same skimmer body.
and yes with the PSK2500 pump

copy from my PM box :

"We will have two version of the BM 300.
1. the normal BM 300
2. the BM 300 deluxe with a big Airflowmeter and a
Speedcontroller for the pumps."


so if you ask me again this is what i know and i saw the one with the controller on video .... by the way the skimmer foam all the body and about 1.5"-2" from the plate this was with the controller i believe the one with out will foam same as the BM250 2" from the top (but i never saw that ).

and again how this skimmer run with those little pump & the controller was just amazing and i never stop to run this video every day till the video move from that link .

[hahnmeister]

Lets just see what ATI posts for the air readings, shall we? If the controller is on these pumps, then the controller can push the pumps beyond their stock output.

[ostrow]

I have used 5 pumps. I haven't had a problem with consistency on them, either from ATI or from Shan. ATI lists 18lpm which is 1080lph. But I believe stock they in fact pull fairly consistent 20lpm.

I had no startup issues on 25lpm when modded right (balanced, even, etc) on any of the 5 pumps. The startup issues I have had I can easily explain and fix when time allowed.

[hahnmeister]

Isnt it your skimmer (might have been the other guys) that Shan made where one PSK was 3lpm higher than the other... no obvious reason either (I think he swapped the impellers, volute, etc and still, one pump just pulled more).

I have experienced the same with my two Sicces as well FWIW.

[jamesdawson]

INFO:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9922773#post9922773 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Oliver P.
Ok, here are some first infos.

1. Old Pumps but new Power:

The BM 300 is one of the first skimmers in the world with speed controlled Pumps. In this way it is very easy to adjust the skimmer and to play with the performance of each Pump.

Here is a short video of one of this pumps on a BM 250.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z55/ATIAquaristik/th_NewPump.jpg (http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z55/ATIAquaristik/?action=view&current=NewPump.flv)

One pump has an air-intake of more than 2000 lph at 35 Watt.

With the new Pumpcontroler on the BM 300 it is possible to change the performance of each pump in a wide range of -20% / + 80%.

More infos will follow soon.

Thanks,
Oliver

AND:

Hi,

Ok, as promised here is a short Video of a Prototyp BM 300. A video of the final BM 300 (with a little bigger skimmerbody that can handle 4000 lph of air) i will show at the end of this week. So, this video is only to give you an idea of the BM 300.

The Air/Water ratio of the BM 300 is 1:1. Just look at the reaction chamber that is completely filled with bubbles.

The BM 300 is made of 5 mm thick Acrylic and the Price including the Controller for the Pumps is 1390 $.

Thanks,
Oliver


Sounds promising!,
James

[ostrow]

Hahnmeister: yeah, at one point that was the case. But I figured that out. It was a mod issue ... loose zip-tie and one of the discs of mesh was not a disc -- it had fallen apart on one side. And it wasn't Shan's mod it was my re-do. Plus, there was a loose fitting from the union to the pump output/skimmer input where some water was escaping. I tightened that down too. (Dr. Good Luck and all). All 3 of mine now pull 20-21. If I shut down one of my 3, then I get 2 pumps at 25lpm and higher watts. The 3rd pump makes all the difference -- which is why the BM300 is going to be one serious skimmer.

[hahnmeister]

Thats odd on yours ostrow... why would shutting off one pump change the other two's performance? Is the bubble plate too small for three pumps, as in, back pressure when all 3 are in use?

[ostrow]

I don't think that's it. Michael anticipated this. He mentioned somewhere that air rose with higher water level. That would mean it would rise with pressure rise right? So, third pump should alleviate pressure on the pumps. This is obvious with the watt droppage with the 3 running (3 pumps, each runs at 24-26 watts, 2 pumps they are 32-33 watts each).

I am not sure what you mean by bubble plate too small. I DO think that the outer ring of holes could be larger diameter -- it would improve performance and reduce turbulence up top.

[andy j]

Any more news on when the 300 maybe out

[can]

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5800/dsc0521eom7.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9407/dsc0525eys8.jpg

[centipede]

Those are nice pictures, but is that a BM300? I thought it came with 3 pumps?

[ostrow]

Look carefully on the 2nd to last picture. There are three pumps. Two on one side, one on the other.

[ostrow]

Actually, on both pictures it is clear -- at least, the air lines are clear.

[hahnmeister]

So how does one clean the area around the bubble plate?

[jamesdawson]

Wow, Sfiligio and ATI. Good stuff!

OTOH, I understand that the first BM300s we will get here will not have controllable pumps. Apparently that comes later.

James

[ostrow]

Reach in and clean Hahn. I can clean mine without removing it. Just reach down there. So far in 5 months I haven't found anything to clean. Not sure what the fuss there is.

[hahnmeister]

the 300 has the riser tha flares out though, no fuss, but I cant imagine getting a hand down in there or anything.

[ostrow]

Should be easier .... that cone is wider than the neck at the top. Unless you are pumped up on HGH, your arm ought to be less than 6" in diameter.

[Jim_S]

I think he's talking about the outside area of the inverted cone. That area looks pretty inaccessible. Not that it really matters, it would just be nice to be able to disassemble the unit and clean from time to time.

Either way, I would like to see them come up with some external designs :D

Cheers,

Jim

[ostrow]

Oh, well the diffuser is inside, not outside. But I see now.

[hahnmeister]

Jim understands. I just ask because I know this is an area where sediments tend to settle out, and so does that mean I have to invert the whole skimmer to clean it? I see the wing-nut, but it looks like only the base of the skimmer comes apart. I know its not new though, since ATI owners have hoped for a while to be able to open up the skimmers for cleaning.

[mavgi]

from the picture it's just the bottom....


On the other side it will not get to much or even any dirt in this area since all this area will be full of water , the most dirt will be under the bubble diffuser and on the neck of the skimmer .

you can look on the shape i marked all this area inside and out of the column full of bubble (and of course the neck to....)


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/mavgi/dsc0525eys8.jpg

[hahnmeister]

Looks like a settling chamber to me still... and sometimes even inverting the body doesnt get everything out since some of it sticks to the acrylic.

It would be nicer if these skimmers came apart at the bubble plate as well... it would require another cut at where the body meets the outer ring of the bubble plate, but it could still be all held together with just that one wing-nut.

Otherwise, what are you going to do? use a large wire-brush to brush out the dirt around the outside of the central 'funnel'?

[hahnmeister]

mavgi, for clarification, I am talking about the area highlighted in red:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101/bubblemaster3002.jpg

[mavgi]

yes this is what i said at the first time when i saw this toy...

i also recommended to mount the pump better it will be hard to play with this pump in tight sump if they fall down and i hope the skimmer sit in a grove on the white base and not just sit on it (i can't see that but i am not sure)

anyway this skimmer also need a big sump :

L 66 (25.98")xW 32(12.59")x H 69(27.16) (Clearing height: 70)CM
Waterflow: 4800 l/h
Airflow: >3000 l/h
Energy: 69-90W

[sjm817]

My BM250 is a year old and hasn't accumulated anything in the bottom chamber, nor the area that is marked in red above. It stays clean. In fact, it is the only skimmer I have owned that didn't acumulate stuff in the bottom.

[Felixc]

I think it has alot to do with whether or not filter sock is used. My BM250 would accumulate all sorts of ugliness in that skimmer and it's a tough task to clean that "red area". The bottom of that is almost impossible. I recently cleaned the skimmer and added a filter sock onto the main drain and so far the skimmer/sump is spotless.

I can't wait to see the controllable skimmer.

[cweder]

So why is this not available in the states yet??

[chriscobb]

Any updates?

[cweder]

The BM 300's should start shipping out next week.....that did'nt take long now did it. Now how well can they skim...

[ostrow]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12250259#post12250259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cweder
The BM 300's should start shipping out next week.....that did'nt take long now did it. Now how well can they skim...

Where'd you hear that???

[cweder]

I have connections....


I called Greg at ReefGeek. He is taking pre-orders now.

[ostrow]

With or without the controller?

What is the price?

[cweder]

Without controller $1399

[bag151]

Got my BM-300 in today and this thing is amazing and huge. Click the little red house for pics or check out my thread in the Large Tank Forum.

[Creetin]

Looks nice there bag!! Thats one big skimmer. How about a pic with a can of pop on top of it for size refferance.

[Creetin]

Nevermind i see mavgi's post now. LOL

[ostrow]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12583388#post12583388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
Nevermind i see mavgi's post now. LOL

?