Carbon per Gallon

[Bryan]

Is there a general recommendation for how much carbon per gallon ?. Mfg seem to have recommendations all over the map.

[Boomer]

It depends and yes it is all over the place. I always give 1 level tbsp / gal, that is plenty. And I have been playing with the stuff for 40 years.

[Bryan]

Wow, that's a lot of carbon. 125 Tablespoons for a 125 gallon. How often would you change it out.

Would 1/2 to 1/3 of your recommendation still be effective. I have only been adding about a cup for the 125 gallon. Obviously not enough.

[Boomer]

Yes, it would be fine to go with that 1/2 to 1/3 if you wish. Go with 1 tbsp / 10 gals if you wish, close to where you are at now. GAC and how much to use is really an opinion or a need you may have or think you have. 125 tbsp is about 1/ 1/2 quarts or 8 cups . I use to use 1 cup in 55 gal tanks and in total tank vol it equated to 1 cup / 50 gals. So for you on my scheme it is 2 1/2 cups . That 1 tbsp / gal I have is more or less the std. And maybe we should say no more that 1 tbsp / gal is maybe overkill.

If you think the std is allot some long ago use to recommend 3 tbsp / gal. There has never been any real tests on GAC in reef tanks and how much is used or should be used . So, as I said it is more of a personnel choice. I might add the GAC filters the water two ways and not one way like some think. It is both chemical and mechanical in filtration. In the chemical sense it works just like your skimmer does. Both are hydrophobic adsorbers. Don't confuse Adsorption with Absorption.

How often would you change it out.

GAC lasts longer than some thing, like months and there was a test I started using 30 years ago one can do to see how well it is still working in x time. Basically, what I ended up doing was pulling out the GAC once a wk. Take it to the sink in its mess bag. Turn on the water and tumble the GAC in its bag with your hands and crush it with your fingers as you do this for 1-2 min. This will rise away allot of the unbound organics and also open up new surface areas that are fresh. I would then change out the GAC once ever 2/ m.

If you want to know more about GAC than you want to know, just type in my name in the search and keyword GAC in the other box. You will be reading for hrs. :D

I might add that not all GAC is the same. In some you can use less but others you need more. And some should not be used although they still work.

[HowardW]

Boomer, Wouldn't the shape of some carbons be more effective then others (more surface area) hence less would be needed?

[Boomer]

Yes, Howard that is true and is why I often recommend SeaChem Labs Matrix, as it is round balls and has better fluid dynamics. Grain size is also important.

[Bryan]

Boomer:

Where does MarineLand "Black Diamond" carbon and Kent Marine "Reef Carbon" place in the order of carbons in your opinion.

[Boomer]

Kent is at the bottom and Balck Diamond is up there. Kent is not a lquid phase carbon but an air pahse carbon. Kent should be filled under "G" Here is my list form FF when someone asked about "my list" on my chem forum.

1. Warner Marine
A Peat based extruded acid washed GAC, the size or appearance of broken mechanical pencil lead, that is .8 mm in dia and about 2 mm long and fairly hard for a Peat due to the extrusion process. Data specs roll your eyes back in your head.

2. TLF Hydrocarbon
A Lignite Coal acid washed GAC


3. SeaChem Matrix
A Bitum coal non-acid washed GAC of 1-2 mm "balls". With superior fluid dynamics in flow abilities i.e., much less channeling

4. thefilterguys
The best Bitum coal I know of. Acid washed, water rinsed and pH neutral. Chemically this is better than Matrix. The most dust free GAC there is, at least for Bitums, Lignites or Peat. It is even more dust free than many CC. This is actually more of a C-GAC than a true GAC.

The above are all very low in Ash. They are not cheap about $8.00 / l. The Matrix I think is even more.

5. Elements by Eric Borneman

6. Black Diamond, Marineland.
Bitum coal non- acid washed GAC. Pretty much the aquarium industry std

7. API Super Black Magic

Bitum coal non-acid washed GAC. It use to be the same as TLF hydrocarbon. They switched a couple of years ago to a bitum

5, 6 and 7 are almost the same. Elements "seems/appears" better, maybe due to a smaller mess size. There are no data sheets given by Marineland or API for their GAC


The term Bitum is actually a short name we use for Sub-Bituminous Coal and not Bituminous Coal. Almost all Bitum GAC's are Subs. Sub-Bituminous Coal is not as hard as Bituminous. There are lots of other GAC's made from other raw materials, like various Woods, Bone, Coconut Shells, Bamboo, etc.. Coconut(CC) and Bamboo are quite common as Vapor Phase Carbons ( VPC). Bamboo is a kinda new one in VPC. Bone GAC is rare. Woods are a times use in waste water. It has huge pores, the opposite of CC.

[pjf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787750#post9787750 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
1. Warner Marine
Data specs roll your eyes back in your head.

Will you be able to post a link to the specifications? Thanks!

[Boomer]

I'm sorry I can not do that, as I know where Jon got it from and I led him to it. If Jon wants to he can :D

[pjf]

Does the Warner Marine GAC last as long as Seachem Matrix Carbon in a reactor? (It will be underneath the PHOSaR-HC so tumbling it once a week may be impractical.)

[PatrickJ]

it just seems so much. where do you put it all? i want to use that much in a slow flow reactor so it will become biologically active.

[Boomer]

It will last longer pjf but I wold not be cleaning this GAC as I mentioned, tumbling and crushing it. You will break it into small pieces. The same for the Matrix, just rinsing. Only the granular ones should use that tumbling method I mentioned. I should have mentioned that :(

Pat

so it will become biologically active

Why do you want it to become biological active ? That is what we are trying to stop it form doing.

[PatrickJ]

Sorta like a place where anarobic bacteria can colonize and reduce nitrates. Right now I have a phosban reactor halfway full of carbon. I notice overtime it becomes "sticky" and heavy. I would assume this is from bacterial colonies. I have very slow flow on the reactor. Not so slow that H2S would form. So my guess it would be a good medium for bacteria to live.

[Boomer]

Ok Pat I kinda figured that may be the reason and it will work ;) That sticky and heavy may also just be detritus or mostly detritus.

[pjf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9787750#post9787750 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
1. Warner Marine
A Peat based extruded acid washed GAC, the size or appearance of broken mechanical pencil lead, that is .8 mm in dia and about 2 mm long and fairly hard for a Peat due to the extrusion process. Data specs roll your eyes back in your head.

Yesterday, my order for a quart of Reef Pure GAC was drop-shipped directly from Warner Marine to my door. It is granular, resembles pebbles, and bears no resemblance to broken mechanical pencil lead.

I checked the Warner Marine website (http://www.warnermarine.com/Product14-GAC.html). It's GAC page describes the product as lignite-based and states: 'ReefPure GAC is far superior to the "pelleted" type GAC found in lower quality competing products.'

Where did you order the "broken mechanical pencil lead" version of Warner Marine GAC from?

[Boomer]

I don't have a clue pjf :confused:

He use to have more than one GAC. What you have is similar or the same as TLF Hydrocarbon, which is great stuff. That container even says granular.

It looks like it is not out yet. It is called Ultimate GAC. Maybe I jumped the gun on its release to the public :lol: e-mail Jon and ask him. We have had talks about it on other forums. He has seen my list

[sjm817]

Boomer, if you wouldn't mind, could you comment on my carbon setup? My system is a 180g, ~ 250g total volume. I use Black Diamond in a Fluval 404 canister filter. The 404 holds an entire 3.65L container of carbon. I run an ATI BM250 skimmer. I dont want the GAC to "compete" too much with the skimmer removing DOCs. I have the 404 on a timer. 1Hr on, 5Hr off. It runs for 4Hr/Day total. I only change the carbon every couple of months. Good? Bad? Who knows?

Thanks

[Icefire]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9794159#post9794159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pjf
Will you be able to post a link to the specifications? Thanks!

It's Norit RO 0.8, it absorb 22g MB.

It's posted all over RC ;)

[Boomer]

sjm817

That should be OK but I would pull apart that 404 every couple of weeks and wash that GAC.

[pjf]

I'll look for Norit ROX 0.8 after I've exhausted my WM lignite-based GAC. From which web retailers is it available?

[boxfishpooalot]

Boomer, is it wise to break old carbon up under tap water? Or does that just defeat the purpose. Instead use ro water that contains less organics?

[Boomer]

Tap water is fine IMHO. If you want just give it a final rinse in RO.

Pjf

Ok, Yes it is ROX 0.8 :D Off hand I do not know of any retailers.

http://www.norit-americas.com/pdf/ROX_08_rev4.pdf

[sidjam]

You can buy it here

http://www.twopartsolution.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=69

[muzz]

can anyone tell me what the besy way to run carbon is? in a phosban type/or actual, reactor? is there a post with a DIY reactor? or just a bag dropped in the sump?

I have a 125g display, with 75g sump. running protein skimmer, and uv sterilizer...looking to add a carbon filter of some sort, and a phosphate reactor , and hoping to use the same style for both medias. this is a fairly new tank setup, and I am new in this style of filtration, so not sure how to "run" the carbon. any help or lilnks would be apprecited. thank you in advance,

[pjf]

In his two-part article, Richard Harker suggests that a reactor with a slow flow rate is the way to go (http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon_1.htm).

Another thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1120178), discussed placing GAC and GFO in the same reactor. Only 1 tablespoon of GFO per 20 gallons of water is needed. More GAC is used otherwise the GAC will be exhausted before the GFO is exhausted. The water should flow through the GAC first to remove DOCs before flowing through the GFO.

Still another thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1104096) suggests the use of Norit ROX 0.8 GAC and PHOSaR-HC GFO.

[BigJPDC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9785835#post9785835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
It depends and yes it is all over the place. I always give 1 level tbsp / gal, that is plenty. And I have been playing with the stuff for 40 years.

I think I feel like an idiot now - I am running carbon in a Kent Marine Pros Reactor for the first time in my 65g and filled it about 3/4 of the way full with an entire 200g bottle of Seachem Matrix carbon.

I can't find a good conversion from tbsp to grams to figure out how much I should have put in, but the other recommendation in this thread for 1tbsp of phosban / 20 gals would leave me with 3 tbsp, and that wouldn't even be enough to rub down a nice slab of sparerribs with. =)

jp

[Icefire]

carbon = 1 tbsp/gallon
GFO = 1ml or 2gr/gallons max

[BigJPDC]

OK - how many grams of matrix is that? I went to a cooking conversion website and it gave me 965 grams for 65 tbsp, so that must have been for flour or sugar or something.

[Boomer]

You can not convert grams to table spoons unless it gives the volume and weight. And grams of GAC is not the best way of doing it, volume is. Not all GAC weighs the same / unit volume and comes in different grains sizes. You can put more BB's in a cup than marbles and marbles are made of glass and BB's made of lead. So, that cup with the BB's is gong to be pretty darn heavy in grams vs the marbles in grams. You can also stick more round objects in a cup of the same size as square objects.

Spotte recommends 1 gram / l. So, 65gal x 3.78 ( liters in 1 gal) =245 .7 grams. So, your 200 is fine.


However, SeaChem Matrix is sold by the mL or L and not grams, i.e., 250 mL, 500 mL, 1 L, 2 L, 4 L, 20 L, 100 L . They also recommend 250 mL will easily treat 400 L (100 gallons*)

So they are saying 2.50 mL / gal =162.5 mL / 65 gal or you need to use 11 tbsp / 65 gal based on SeaChem.

1 tbsp = 15 mL

The value that Ice gave is pretty common, 1 tbsp / gal max. But there are some others like 1 tbsp /10 gal or 1 cup /50 gals. How much to use is a personnel choice.

[BigJPDC]

Boomer - that is very helpful, thank you! I am pretty sure the bottle of Matrix I have says 200g, treats 200 gals. I wonder if I should have used half the bottle?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4197&Ntt=seachem&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

11tbsp still seems like a small amount to me, but I will try using less next time around.

jp

[Boomer]

jp

I got my info on Matix off of the SeaChem website.

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/MatrixCarbon.html

[BigJPDC]

weird huh? Cool, those are the numbers I was looking for I think. If I have a 200g bottle that treats 200 gals, then that must also be equal to the 500ml bottle. It might just be packaging.

Thank you Boomer.
jp

[Boomer]

:thumbsup: