Beginning Advice

[Brogan]

Hello I was sent to this website by a friend of mine. Im looking to start a new saltwater nano but, have no advice but the questions I asked at the local Petco. To start with, I was told they are harder to set up and get going but, easier to maintain in the long run. I have had a 35gal hex tank for a while now and am looking to move out into different boundaries. I will be purchasing a new 29gal fish tank to start anew with. My plans so far are to get the tank, buy a protein skimmer (not sure which one yet.. will get back to you on it.. the Petco lady said itd work) an undergravel filter, a power filter, obviously the salt and substrate.. and a couple of black and white damsels to get going with. The questions Im pondering are:
1.) How hard is it to incorporate coral and live plants into the system. How soon can I get them integrated? I know the fish have to come about a month -month in a half later but, havent heard about plants/coral.
2.) Will the 29 be sufficient for a moderate marine tank?
3.) Id like to peak off at a lionfish, some coral, an anemone with a couple clownfish and possibly a tang. Also considering a blue fish that eats the organisms off of other fish *not sure of their name >_>* and some snails.. This good or bad?
4.) What other equipment will be needed? Obviously the filtration, lighting (will need help with this too) salt, analyzing equipment, and substrate but what else?
5.) Once established, does the tank get harder/easier to keep?

Any other advice would be more than welcome but, beware .. as I am a n00b at the saltwater tanks, I may not completely understand what you're saying so some more in depth help may be needed. I appreciate everyone's time.. I look forward to using this site frequently!

:confused:

[circusordie16]

i dont know much about larger tanks (larger than 10 gallons) but i can see a few things you should reconsider right away. first of all, i wouldnt trust petco, look into a better local fish store. second, skip the undergravel filter and just get some powerheads for water movement. also, dont buy damsels just to start out with. you dont need them for your cycle, its cruel to the fish, and theyll be impossible to get out later. corals are quite easy to integrate as long as you have sufficient lighting and water quality. as for the fish, it sounds like youre headed for an extremely overstocked tank. an anemone in a smaller tank is difficult but possible. not sure about the lionfish in a small tank but definitely not a tang in a 29 gallon and definitely not all of those combined. just go for a few smaller fish. the rest ill let somebody more experienced take over.

[Azial]

to me they have it backwards. It was easier for me to set up, and harder for me to run then a large tank system. Large tanks take far more plumping, stands, lighting and work to get going but because of their water size easier to maintain great water.

To your questions:

#1. Given a 29 Gallon, it should be very easy. Look at the tanks in this forum and the tank of the month. As for time, I am on the Conservative end of the game. 6-12 month plan for any sized tank.

I like to see people do this:

#A. Cure Live Rock/Sand in the tank to cycle the tank. This can vary from 2-6 weeks. Wait until your Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate are 0. Initially Dose your system to 400-420 Calcium, Alkalinity 7-12 dKh and Magnesium 1300.

#B. Wait a month. Wait for the algae to grow, the system will still be cycling but not showing on tests. Try to get Phosphate to 0. Wait for Coraline Algae growth, this is a major indicator things are going well.

#C. After a "typical" diatom growth you will get a green hair algae growth. This is a good time to get a clean up crew. At this stage. 1 Hermit/Snail per 3 gallons (This will go up eventually). Or a Blenny would be good at this stage.

#D. Wait a month, start to introduce stony "pioneer" corals first If you have a quarantine tank, give them 2 weeks in quarantine and then place them in the tank. If not do 1 every 2 weeks or so and give them room. This is also a good point to add a favorite fish or 2. I recommend no more then 2 "creatures" every 2-4 weeks while stocking.

This should get you to 6 months roughly, watching your tank and take it slow. Take a word of advice, going fast (and we ALL have made that mistake) will take LONGER then going slow. Take the intial parts slow and within a year you will have a young tank but almost assuredly out performing someone who stocked after 1 month. Here is another good article:

Read Myth 15, it's good stuff

Myth 15: Stocking a tank (http://http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php)

#2. 29 Gallon is fine

#3. Skip the tang, minimum of 75+ Gallons. Lions also can be touchy with the clowns

#4. I recommend getting the best lighting you can, HQI Metal Halide if you can afford it. If not, T5s are nice too. Try to get roughly 5-7 Watts per Gallon you can always re-use the lights on something bigger if needed. A decent Skimmer is a must too. Filtration is a matter of opinion, a small refugium would be ideal. Ro/DI Filter for long term water health is a must too unless you have access to it.

#5. Smaller is harder to maintain because things change a lot faster in a Nano. However I would never trade it for anything.

[dendro982]

1.) How hard is it to incorporate coral and live plants into the system. Not hard at all - after cycling is finished (you know about this already, if not - search for Fishless cycling tank), just add gradually the more hardy species, 1-3 at the time, slowly raising bioload. I, personally, like capabilities of this tank (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85082&st=0) very much.
How soon can I get them integrated? I know the fish have to come about a month -month in a half later but, havent heard about plants/coral. Right after the cycling finished, gradually build bioload, adding snails, invertebrates, plants, corals will be OK too, after the LR starts come to the life, even sooner, but they will have a little more hard time. Plan fish you want carefully, you will stuck with it for a very long time (don't ask me, how do I know - my nemesis is a cleaner wrasse, with no fishless cycling, just gradually added the stock and dosed bacteria).
2.) Will the 29 be sufficient for a moderate marine tank? Yes, but I personally prefer 5-6g tanks, 1 small goby only, though. Mostly corals and invertebrates, like shrimp - sexy for a smaller tanks and a durable blood shrimp for the bigger tanks.
3.) Id like to peak off at a lionfish, some coral, an anemone with a couple clownfish and possibly a tang. Also considering a blue fish that eats the organisms off of other fish *not sure of their name >_>* and some snails.. This good or bad? No tang, sorry, grows too big.

If the lionfish - one dwarf only, may be, but better to ask Frank Marini at the Aggressive fish forum - you will get most comprehensive answer from the successful keeper.
I'm toying with an idea to get my hands on the smallest colorful angler, and make a species tank, the tank size will be just right.

Clownfish - I have one percula, loveliest colors, brightens the tank, but: it wiggles around - it's all from behaviour I could see.

The blue fish, that eats parasites, is a cleaner wrasse, my curse, has personality, good pet, eating from the hands 3 times daily, frozen food. IMHE never put it in the tank with big fish, unless it's 300+ gal, very mean to a slow moving fish, doesn't want to clean, just painfully pinch. Does very well with percula. Beware of the existance of the false creaner wrasse - it's has the shark-like face and bites.

The true cleaner wrasse has poor record of surviving in captivity - have to post this information, or will be flamed ;)
IMHE, if you hand-feed it, it's takes a nuclear weapon to get rid of him :D . Jumper, close the tank's top, mine jumped 3 times during one year, always was picked within 1-2 min, put back - still alive and well. Has guardian-cat, you know, who yelled for a people once, when no one was noticed, that wrasse jumped.

Instead, the blood shrimps cleans very well, is harmles and colorful (and trice expensive, then wrasse :p ).

Corals and invertebrates - the least problem, easier than fish, low bioload, you can place a lot of them in the tank. LPS were easier for me, than softies, but require feeding and grow big. If you wish, can list that were easy for me, colorful and in general worth keeping, with pictures to see for yourself.
4.) What other equipment will be needed? Obviously the filtration, lighting (will need help with this too) salt, analyzing equipment, and substrate but what else? Filtration, light - if this is 12-14" high tank, 3-5W/gal, could be less, but the choice of corals will be limited.

The main pitfall with hardware is to see in the LFS the fish, you just must have, and if it's appear to grow big, messy eater, and require 3x per day feeding - then there will be avalanche of expenses (again, don't ask me how do I know - with my preferences for 6g tanks, have now 90g and it's still small).

Salt - try to test newly prepared water, once from each new batch, at least alkalinity.
Tests - API is cheap and good, Salifert is considered one of the best, if you will need the reference solution to compare to - Seachem Reef Status test kits (not blue boxes).
Refractometer, 2 heaters (just in case), thermometer, powerhead or additional mini-pumps (or closed loop with one big pump).
Some people eventually came to the necessity of the sump, even for 10g tanks, some, with carefully selected inhabitants, doing well without it.
Water conditioner, if you are using tap water, alkalinity supplement.
Cleaning equipment - for the glass and the bottom.
Turkey baster to bast the LR.
Long plastic thing, performing function of tweezers for the bottom.
Food.
Bucket to mix water.
5.) Once established, does the tank get harder/easier to keep? The same, unless you bought the heavy burden - high maintenance specimen.
Best of luck!
:wavehand:

[Azial]

Another thing on stocking the tank:

Research.

You can't go wrong with it. Define what type of corals you want in the system. Be it LPS, SPS, Softies, Polyps or Mushrooms. You can mix them, but I would avoid it, you gain a whole other set of problems. Normally people divide these into two categories.

Soft/Polyps/Mushrooms can get away with 3-5 Watts per gallon under Compact Florescent/T5 HO/Metal Halide. Mushrooms, Softies and Polyps play chemical warfare based on species and should be run with carbon if you plan on mixing with SPS and LPS. These tend to grow fast and can be fairly hardy

LPS and SPS need much more intense lighting and I would go around 4ish to 7ish Watts per Gallon. With higher intensity Metal Halides you will get the best coloration, T5's work excellent as well, or combination of T5 and Compact Fluorescent kits. These generally shouldn't touch each other and with sweeper tentacles can sting each other, care in placement is ideal. also you will need very good water movement to keep these properly especially SPS. Power heads are very nice for this.

[Rosseau]

A note on the "watts per gallon" method of measuring light availability in your tank. Don't even consider it -it's borderline useless.

Some good advice given above however the amount of light at any given depth in your tank is a function of the light's power and the depth of the water. This does not change if your tank is 1000 gallons or 10 gallons. Just keep that in mind:)


Yes as already said, keep asking questions, keep reading. You'll save yourself (and your animals) a lot of money, effort and loss.

As always said around here, in reef tanks only bad things happen quickly.

Good luck, enjoy.

[Konadog]

Hi Brogan,
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

Well, you have a few questions, so I'll give it my best.

Hello I was sent to this website by a friend of mine.
You can yell at Eric later :p

Im looking to start a new saltwater nano but, have no advice but the questions I asked at the local Petco.
RC is a much better resource than Petco.

To start with, I was told they are harder to set up and get going but, easier to maintain in the long run. I have had a 35gal hex tank for a while now and am looking to move out into different boundaries. I will be purchasing a new 29gal fish tank to start anew with.
Harder, easier, it depends on what you call hard or easy. Maintenance and stability is the key. Smaller tanks are harder in a way because there is not much water volume. A drop of bleach to a 300 gallon tank is nothing, but put it in a 10 gallon tank and its a bigger deal.

My plans so far are to get the tank, buy a protein skimmer (not sure which one yet.. will get back to you on it.. the Petco lady said itd work) an undergravel filter, a power filter, obviously the salt and substrate.. and a couple of black and white damsels to get going with.
You can get a skimmer later, no problem. I suggest that you ask a bunch more questions and read as much as possible, it will save you $$ in the long run. You really don't want to go with a undergravel filter, and if you have a good skimmer, you really don't need a power filter. Same goes for the damsels, unless you like the fish and want them later.

The questions Im pondering are:
1.) How hard is it to incorporate coral and live plants into the system. How soon can I get them integrated? I know the fish have to come about a month -month in a half later but, havent heard about plants/coral.
Most people don't run macro algae and coral together, most macros will slowly over grow or compete for space, choking out the corals. You can (and most do) run macro algae in a refugium to use as a source of nutrient export.

2.) Will the 29 be sufficient for a moderate marine tank?
A 29 gallon tank is a medium/large nano tank. Small tanks are good, but you need to research the type of fish that can stay in a nano tank.

3.) Id like to peak off at a lionfish, some coral, an anemone with a couple clownfish and possibly a tang. Also considering a blue fish that eats the organisms off of other fish *not sure of their name >_>* and some snails.. This good or bad?
Well, see my answer to #2. Lion fish can get very large, unless its a dwarf lion fish, and I still wouldn't put it in a 29 gallon. Tangs need lots of swimming room, I wouldn't think of putting one in anything under a 100 gallon. Clown fish would be good for a small tank, a mated pair wouldl be nice to watch.

4.) What other equipment will be needed? Obviously the filtration, lighting (will need help with this too) salt, analyzing equipment, and substrate but what else?
Again, this all depends on what you end up keeping in the tank. I would spend my $$ on a good pump for circulation, a good skimmer for filtration, and lastly, lighting. There are many choices for lights, but it all depends on what your keeping.

5.) Once established, does the tank get harder/easier to keep?
Easier! You learn from your mistakes, know where to get information to help you along. Just keep up on your maintenance. Things can happen fast(er) in a small tank.

Any other advice would be more than welcome but, beware .. as I am a n00b at the saltwater tanks, I may not completely understand what you're saying so some more in depth help may be needed. I appreciate everyone's time.. I look forward to using this site frequently!
My only advice is to ask about everything in the beginning!!! It's a lot of information to grasp at once, but you have a great resource at your hands, use it!!

RC also has a New to the Hobby forum (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=104) that you should read thru. There is a sticky (thread that doesn't move from the top) that has a ton of usfull information that will be of great use for you.

Good luck and start reading!