Closed loop return placement

[jschottenfeld]

I'm in the process of setting up my 125 reef. I haven't decided on my pump leading from my sump yet, but I will be looking for something to give me approx 1000 gal/hr through my two overflow boxes.

I drilled the back of my tank with 2 holes for my closed loop intakes. What is the general consensus for location of the return nozzles?

I'm thinking towards the bottom of the tank to blow the detritus from the back behind the LR to the front for easier removal. I will have a BB. I don't believe that back siphoning should be a problem since it is not going back to my sump and is a closed loop.

Any recommendations on brands of pumps to go with? I plan on keeping softies and trying my hand at some SPS. The pumps will be downstairs in my basement so noise isn't the biggest concern. I will be pumping up 15 feet.

I realize that I am asking a lot of questions...but that is why I only have less than 50 posts. When I have over 1000 posts maybe I might know at least one answer....lol

[xCGx]

If you drill the holes at the lower part of the tank, what will you do if one of them starts to leak? It could possibly drain your tank, whereas if you drill the returns higher on the tank it will only leak down to that level. You will probably get better flow if the returns are higher and you will be able to adjust them to point to different parts of the tank. If you go lower they will be pointing directly at your liverock, corals, etc. I don't know much about external high pressure pumps, but I think you get what you pay for. Post in the New to the hobby threads and you will probably get more responses.

[jschottenfeld]

I already drilled the holes and yes I did put them up high for the reason you point out. I'm wondering if it makes more sense to put the supply nozzles low in the tank behind the rock work to blow out the detirtus. If I do that am I missing out on some benefit from putting them up high?

[wife no likey]

I have a line coming off of my CL that is about 5" off the bottom.

There is a loc line Y inside off of that. It has been very effective keeping particulates in suspension.

Pete

[David P]

What size bulkheads are you putting in? That can change everything. In my opinion you would be better off with a dart or AM3K on the closed loop right under your tank (very very quiet) as most of these style pumps only handle pumping water 12' Why do you want to pump 1000 gal through your overflow? How big of a skimmer are you running? There really is not much of a reason to flow more through your sump than the skimmer can process. Plus there is more splashing noise, more electricity used, more money spent on a bigger pump.
Can you have your sump down stairs? if so that would be great have your pressure rated pump, skimmer, down the road a calcium reactor away from tank to keep the viewing pleasure silent!
If you use loc-line, yeah you can direct the flow, but they are only 3/4" and really reduce flow, they do increase velocity though for blowing out detritus.

I have a 120 tank I have 2 siphon with 1.5" bulkheads on the bottom of my tank(dividing my tank into thirds left to right) I now wish these bulkheads were 2" as I changed from amp master 3000s to Dart pumps... I have a 1.5" return bulkhead in each of the bottom corners blowing up these 4 (momentarily not hooked up unffortunately) are ran off of an oceans motion. The front two blow up and sideways at ~45 degrees (a little custom plumbing!) the back two ports blow into my 2 islands that surround the siphons. I found this to be not enough flow so I changed the plumbing and instead of redundant siphon (both siphons hooked up to one pump) I have 2 closed loops, another reeflow dart, and 3) 1" bulkheads at the top of the tank (plus one for my sump pump, one in each upper corner plus two more dividing my tank into thirds again). On these returns I have loc-line on I think 2 of them and on the other I have a 1" 45 fitting painted black, it is a threaded fitting so I can swivel it back and forth to direct the flow. I feel I get more water movement from the top CL but the fish like to play in the alternating current of the bottom CL.

Words of advise: spend the extra money and get the clear acrylic strainers NOT these http://www.marinedepot.com/md_searchitem.asp?strSearch=strainer&IdCategory=FIFT&text=Plumbing+Parts&step=1&itemsonpage=15&Clearance=
but these: http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/ft_screen_big.jpg
spend a little extra and buy good Speers ball valves not the home depot specials believe me there IS a difference!
Make sure your strainers are easy to get to, pull out (not threaded) so you can clean them. Im sure I have more later but I need some coffee dammit!

[ricwilli]

David P, do you have a picture of your tank showing the closed loops without the rocks in it?

[David P]

yeah, let me see if I can remember where they are....

This one you can see all 6 ports, I obviously dont have the two suction lines on...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ampeg/image/Fish/120/closedloopfillingsmall.jpg

Here you can see how I kept all the plumbing towards the back of the stand, the pumps are now actually outside the stand so I have room for a larger sump.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ampeg/image/Fish/120/closedloopsidesmall.jpg

And here you get a good view of the closed loop plumbing.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ampeg/image/Fish/120/closedloopsmall.jpg

Ok this is a bad image but look at the reflection on the right side and you can see what I did with the 45 street el fittings...compare to the first image
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ampeg/image/Fish/120/120rsmall.jpg
I dont have a good pic of the front fittings, I boiled them and squished them like the fittings in back but I also took them to a belt sander and really shaved them down. They are a minimalist artistw version of a fittings, just enough material on top to suggest a water diversion to aproximately 45.

[jschottenfeld]

David,
Thanks for all of your input. I have two 1-3/4" holes drilled for the return of my closed loop about 5" down from the top of the tank. I was planing on having the closed loop pump downstairs in the basement (where my sump is), but it might make more sense to keep it directly under my tank. I do not have holes drilled into the bottom of my tank so I will have to drop some PVC down the back and across the bottom.

I am very happy that I'm able to keep my sump, RO/DI, Skimmer, and whatever future goodies that I will need to purchase.

I like how you constructed your plumbing under the tank. Everything is very easy to get and and adjust.

My LFS guy was recomending 1000 gph through my overflows since the max recomended for the boxes is 1200gph. But you are correct, it should really be based off of my Bermuda Aquatic 3C skimmer.

[xCGx]

Am I seeing that correctly? Is the plumbing suspending the tank off of the stand?

[silverwolf72]

Your seeing the plumbing threw the bottom glass

[David P]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9805080#post9805080 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xCGx
Am I seeing that correctly? Is the plumbing suspending the tank off of the stand?
yes! its super duty pvc... no but now that I look back it does sorta look like that. The metal frame is painted white, a piece of plywood, painted white and then the tank.