Clownfish with booboo on mouth

[nhlives]

A place has appeared on the fish's lower mouth. Any idea. The Clown appears otherwise healthly. Is acting OK, etc.
http://hollcraft.ws/reef/Close%20up%20of%20Clown%20BooBoo/IMG_0247.jpg

More pictures here. (http://hollcraft.ws/reef/Close%20up%20of%20Clown%20BooBoo/Forms/AllItems.aspx)

[TerryB]

It is probably not a fungus or bacterial infection unless the fish has been injured. Did you net the fish recently? It could be lymphocystis, hard to tell from the photo. I

I would make a large water change using well aged and aerated saltwater of the same temperature and pH (at least close) first. Viral infections can clear themselves with excellent water quality, a low stress environment, and a widely varied diet.

Terry B

[nhlives]

No, the fish has been undisturbed for about three weeks. Although the "spot" is at least one week old. someone suggested brooklynella.

[TerryB]

Brooklynella is actually a good guess considering it is a clownfish.
Is the fish lethargic? Is it active and eating well? You may want to consider a series of three formalin dips, one every third day. Don't dip the fish if it looks like an open wound.

Terry B

[nhlives]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9814823#post9814823 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TerryB
Brooklynella is actually a good guess considering it is a clownfish.
Is the fish lethargic? Is it active and eating well? You may want to consider a series of three formalin dips, one every third day. Don't dip the fish if it looks like an open wound.

Terry B

Actually, she acts fine. I started a formalin dip last night. Actually has some malachite Green also which may not be a good thing.

She is eating this morning. I am also lowering the salinity slowly. This following post form another forum (www.salthub.com)

I just had a new clown die from whatever this is and have heard of a few others (from RC clown forums) who have bought percs recently with this mouth problem. Mine started as a small red blemish in the same area as yours and progressed to a white puffy fuzzy area until the fish couldn't eat or close its mouth. I never did a treatment because I couldn't find an id. Another clown in the same QT has not shown any signs or symptoms of illness.

These are the symptoms exactly. After the dip last night the spot is now bright red and much less fuzzy.

[TerryB]

OK, still not sue what we are dealing with, but Ihave a plan that should work and cover all the basis. Give the fish another two dips. The dips should be every third day. Keep the fish in a Qtank with hyposalinity between dips. You can drop the salinity immediately, but raise it slowly when you are ready. The cause of death with brooklynella is from an inability to maintain osmotic balance. Osmoregulation becomes very difficult and consumes too much energy. Hypo will help counteract this. Use an accurate refractometer and check the pH daily. You should add some furanase (nifurpirinol) to the Qtank. It is a good antibiotic with some anti-fungal activity as well.

Terry B

[nhlives]

...Use an accurate refractometer and check the pH daily...

What should I target "SG 1.009"?

[nhlives]

For the dip I have been using Kordon RID-Ich+. This is a 11.52% formalin solution with malachite green.

The directions say 5 ml for 10 gallons of water. I have been using a 2 quart collection cup with .25ml of the preparation. The dip lasted 30 minutes. How does that sound?

[nhlives]

The clown is still alive this moment and seemingly OK. When I got home from work it had been dark for a couple of hours (QT tank light off) and I thought she was a goner: Lying on the bottom and not moving much. I think I disturbed the poor girl's sleep. Anyway she is swimming around now much as before although she did not take food offered. I did a 1 gal RO switch continuing to bring down the salinity towards 1.009. Tomorrow I do the second dip treatment. In the AM I will offer frozen mysis shrimp a couple hours after she has a chance to wake up.

The place on her month still looks ominious although it is mostly a red spot with less "fuzziness".

PH 8.2 and SG 1.016

[nhlives]

OK. Just finished the 2nd dip. SG=1.009. PH 8.0. Thanks to a poster on PH and alkalinity. It did drop pretty sharply and was corrected with some buffering.

So the Clown looks pretty good and was eating this morning although lightly. I have been observing her behavior and have developed a theory. She does that Clown porpoising thing next to the glass (and probably LR in the display). I can see her constantly rubbing her chin against the glass right where the red spot is. I am thinking the fuzziness was a fungal infection where she has rubbed off her body mucus.

In any case I will finish the parasite régime just in case. But at this point it doesn’t resemble any parasite infection where I can find pictures. It just doesn’t resemble anything I have seen and her behavior doesn't fit either.

I have added an anti-fungal treatment and will add an antibiotic next to guard against secondary infections.

[nhlives]

Doesn't look good today. This the first time she has refused food. Her mouth is pretty much blocked by whatever is causing the "growth". If I'm wrong about the mouth fungus and the antibotic treatment, I fear she is a goner. She will have to start responding to treatment soon.

[TerryB]

Here is an article about how to use formalin correctly.

http://www.petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/seascope/99SS1601.htm

Did you use furanase (nifurpirinol) for the bacterial or fungal infection as I suggested or something else? IS the fish in hyposalinity?

Terry B

[nhlives]

I could not find furanase. I must admit I did not look extensively. For antifungal, I am using Maroxy. And for the other, Maracyn-Two for saltwater.

Day three for the Maroxy and day two for the Marcayn-Two.

I just finished the 3rd dip using Kordon RID-Ich+. This is a 11.52% formalin solution with malachite green. The last two times at twice the recommended dosage for 60 minutes. .50 ml for 2 quarts.

SG = 1.009

[TerryB]

I don't have much faith in Maroxy. Maracyn-Two is a good antibiotic, but I doubt it will help in your case. I suggested nifurpirinol (furanase is one of the brand names for it) because it is a good antibiotic that can also help with fungal infections. I do not use malachite green because it is toxic to fish, especially small ones. It is not a good idea to use formalin with hypo in a dip, because formalin is much more toxic in freshwater or brackish water . I would definately not dip the fish with formalin more than once every three days. Not sure about the dose you are using since I would only use the 37% formalin without malachite green. Are you checking the pH daily when using hyposalinity?

Terry B

[nhlives]

Thanks for the critique. I had been looking for other remedies but I have had some challenges. I think I will likely use this experience to stock my medicine cabinet ahead of time.

I did read about the malachite green issue and have been concerned. The clownfish seem to tolerate it well the first time so I continued with the treatment. I would probably use something different (assuming I find it) the next time.

Bottom line right now is that the fish’s mouth is blocked by some kind of growth and she is not able to eat. I will continue the antifungal and antibiotic treatment and hope for a turn around.

As to PH, I did buffer the QT as the PH dropped.

BTW, the treatment regimen you outlined would seem to have some built in challenges if hypo salinity is included along with a use of formalin. How do you use both treatments at the same time?

[nhlives]

Here below is a later picture. It is real hard to get a clear, close up so I'm not sure this will help.

http://hollcraft.ws/reef/Close%20up%20of%20Clown%20BooBoo/Taken%204-30-2007.jpg

If we don't see some improvement by mid week I think it might be time to consider euthanizing the clownfish. She cannot close her mouth or eat.

[nhlives]

It does appear that the clown's mouth is clearing. I have not offered her food in three days. Perhaps tomorrrow if things continue to improve.

Last dose of antibiotic today. Yesterday was the last day for more antifungal. It is possible that she is improving?

[TerryB]

Glad to hear the fish is improving. I would probalby extend the treatment a bit. The fish will probably eat again after you remove the meds. I would also make a large water change with well age and aerated saltwater before adding the next dose.

Terry B