Phosphate controll in SPS tank

[TIMMYE]

I posted in the filtration fourm, but thought you guys might have some good insight also. I have a mixed reef 210 mainly SPS. I am adding a Phos reactor and want to know what type of media to use? Any advantages or disadvanatges to certain brands? Thanks

[Serioussnaps]

phosban(my personal preference), rowa, phosar, and phosar hc are all solid GFO's.....word to the wise...when you start monitor alkalinity and ph and make sure they dont plummet...they will drop and you may need to adjust alkalinity,,,,,after repeated use you wont have to worry about it.....also, before any usage run ro/di water (lots of it) through the reactor to rinse ALL the dust off..i just stick the pump in a bucket of RO let it pump through the reactor and in to another bucket or out of a window FWIW...this is crucial

[plyle02]

I agree with Serioussnaps... I added a two little fish reactor and recently exhausted the media to find the phosphates returning to undesired levels. I tried a new media, Eco-Systems Eco Phos. So far so good, levels are dropping down low again. Not to hijack your thread, but anyone else using this brand? BTW, I add a bit more alk of 2 part system, when introducing the new media as well. Good Luck.....

[meschaefer]

My personal preference is the Phosar, it works just as well as phosban and costs a lot less. The stuff from DRs. Foster and Smith is really dirty.

I tend to run a couple of gallons of tank water though it till it runs clear, when I change our the media. I use this as an opportunity to do a water change.

[gcarroll]

I too run PHOSaR. It has far less dust than other medias and never clumps together.

[pimo]

I used to run aquaphos in my reactor, but now i have changed to fauna marin ultra power phos, and it work great and you dont need to rinse it before use

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9817810#post9817810 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plyle02
I agree with Serioussnaps... I added a two little fish reactor and recently exhausted the media to find the phosphates returning to undesired levels. I tried a new media, Eco-Systems Eco Phos. So far so good, levels are dropping down low again. Not to hijack your thread, but anyone else using this brand? BTW, I add a bit more alk of 2 part system, when introducing the new media as well. Good Luck.....

Brings up a good point. Replace your media every 4-5 weeks. If you currently have an undesirable amount of phosphates then the first time you may need to replace it sooner!

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9818198#post9818198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by meschaefer
My personal preference is the Phosar, it works just as well as phosban and costs a lot less. The stuff from DRs. Foster and Smith is really dirty.

I tend to run a couple of gallons of tank water though it till it runs clear, when I change our the media. I use this as an opportunity to do a water change.

Brings up another good point...phosar is cheaper, but i will rebut soon. I use RO/DI rather than wasting good saltwater!

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9818247#post9818247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
I too run PHOSaR. It has far less dust than other medias and never clumps together.

And here is my rebuttal...GC loves phosar and his corals are awesome so you know if something goes wrong you cant blame it on the phosar, however, phosar does have less surface area than phosban and FWIW it is barely cheaper as phosban's units come with more media! Ie 125 grams vs. 150 grams

[TIMMYE]

Now i saw somewhere that the first time you use a phosphate remover it can shock the tank. Is this true? Or was this too much, not cleaned well enough or some other under lying issue?

[j.prostrata]

I would recommend about 25% and change that every 4-5 days to start if po4 is still detectable on test. If you have a hanna or access to one thats the best way. Also rem alum based po4 removers can leach alum back into the tank if the PH level raises to 8.4 or so.. Just a heads up about alum based absorbers. You do not have to worry about that with iron based. I have always thought alum based were best suited for Ca Rx effluient for that reason and Iron based for main water supply.

[TIMMYE]

what do you mean a 25% change? water change or phos media change?

[GTR]

Blue Life "Phosphate Control"

6 Drops will reduce PO4 1 ppm per 10 gallons. Right now, not days from now. Maintain alkalinty slightly above normal before dosing as it will take some alk with it.

I suggest you dilute it with RO/DI and setup a drip in front of the skimmers intake.

BTW, I'm not suggesting you reduce PO4 from 1ppm to .00 in one dosage. I aim for a .01 reduction if/when needed.

SteveU

[meschaefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9819147#post9819147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
And here is my rebuttal...GC loves phosar and his corals are awesome so you know if something goes wrong you cant blame it on the phosar, however, phosar does have less surface area than phosban and FWIW it is barely cheaper as phosban's units come with more media! Ie 125 grams vs. 150 grams

By surface area i assume you are refering to particle size, and particle size is not the end all of GFO. (if i am misconstruing you I apologize in advance)

I quote RHF

"Even though the commercial materials appear to be reasonably large particles (Salifert claims 0.2 - 2 mm on their product label), they actually have a high internal surface area, somewhat similar to activated carbon. Consequently, particle size is an unreliable means by which to gauge available surface area (though it is reliable for nonporous solids such as table salt). "

Found in this article (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php)

Furthermore, from my own use I have found that per volume Phosban and Phosar removed relatively the same amount of phosphate

as to price

1200 grams of phosban $79.99
2000 grams of phosar $86.90

= 800 grams more for $7

[GTR]

I don't know what size it is but Salifert's seemed like dust when I used it. Salifert will tell you NOT to use it in a reactor.

SteveU

[TIMMYE]

This is great input!! Thanks for the help any more I wil gladly take.

[j.prostrata]

TIMMYE, I was saying 25% because thats the dosage I would start out with for the recommended dosage and work your way up form there.. Change it out every 4-5 days or until po4 is undetectable and add some more in every changout until you get tothe recomended dosage for your water volume.

[JB NY]

Here are some thougt on my methods of phosphate control in an SPS tank.

I use 1/4 cup (60ml) of Rowaphos changed out once a month. My system was a 180 gallon main tank, DSB with a 55 gallon cheatomorpha refugium. Total system gallons is 280.

Here is what I recommend to do.[list=1]
Run it in a fluidized reactor.
Start out with a minimal amount, and work your way up. Do not follow the manufactures recommended dosage. IMO it is way too high unless you have very high PO4 to begin with.
I recommend a good starting point is 1/5 the recommended dosage.
Rinse the media before using it.
Put it in the bottom of the reactor and put a sponge on top of the GFO and then put 1 cup of carbon on top of the sponge. To make it simple I recommend at least 1-2" of carbon if you are using a large amount of GFO or a large diameter reactor.
Run a low flow through the reactor. You should see the carbon slightly moving but not jumping (like when you run a lot of water through it)
Change it out once a month.[/list=1]
OK now some thoughts.

Personally I believe that the problems with GFO are because when there is not enough PO4 for the GFO to bind to, the GFO will release something into the water. Carbon is used to try and catch that "stuff" that the GFO releases. I'm not a chemist, so I can't explain it more than that. But that's my reasoning based on problems I've had in the past and talks with Bomber in some threads in the past.

I rinse the GFO in a plankton cup. If you ever have raised live food, you find that places like Florida Aqua Farms sell these things called plankton cups. It's a cup with a fine mesh screen on the bottom. You can buy them in different sizes, I use a 120µ cup. All I do is dump 60ml of GFO into the plankton cup and rinse it with tap water for about 30 seconds and it is clear. Then I scoop it out and put it into the reactor.

I have tried the Phosban reactor sold by TLF, IMO they are junk. They are time consuming to open and close, due to the many screws they use. It also easily leaks if you put a little too much pressure on it (which isn't much). They leak from the top near the input and output barbs, so there is no way to fix it after it leaks but to get a new one. After going through three of them, I finally bought a Deltec FR509 for $200 and the have not had any problems at all. Much easier to work with and no leaks. You can say that the more expensive one is just too much money but after I broke my third Phosban reactor I had a different opinion of the matter.

I found that I would run into problems (acro recession) when I used a lot of GFO and changed it out every few months rather than a little that is changed out monthly.

Anyway that's my thoughts on the subject.

[Serioussnaps]

JB is there any reason you dont just mix the carbon and the GFO? Is it because of your theory that the GFO leaks stuff and you want that layer of carbon to rip it out so it cant get into the tank? Just curious

[JB NY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9825252#post9825252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Is it because of your theory that the GFO leaks stuff and you want that layer of carbon to rip it out so it cant get into the tank? Just curious

yes