Best food IMO (of course)

[Paul B]

Although there are many good types of food and some great types of food I would like to mention a food that I believe almost no one (except me) uses to feed to saltwater fish. I am refering to live blackworms which are sold in just about every LFS (in NY anyway) but I find that they are rare in other states.
I know about the talk that freshwater foods should not be fed to saltwater fish and that is mostly true except for worms.
Fish will get into breeding condition in a couple of weeks by feeding live blackworms, how do I know? I have been feeding blackworms to fish to induce spawning and general good health for three decades. When I started in this hobby the only fish for sale were blue devils and a few other damsels. At the time I was also keeping fresh water and brackish fish so I always had blackworms. After just over a week of eating live blackworms, blue devils would start to spawn. I had one pair in particular that lived 7 years and spawned every few weeks by eating black worms almost exclusively. I also believe that they were responsible for my moorish Idol to reach almost five years old.
(he died in an accident) Blue devils, when sold are for the most part blue (duh) with clear tails. After feeding blackworms for a while some of the fish will also develop blue tails and these are the males. (personal experience) I don't know if they were born males or became males but since I have spawned many of them I know they are males. I do not keep blue devils any more but I never forgot what those worms did for the damsels.
I now keep mostly gobies (I get on a kich every now and then, now it's gobies) :rolleye1:
Anyway, just about all fish will eat worms and you can see very plainly how healthy fish will become with this food. Copperband butterflies in particular will really thrive with them and I would not keep a copperband without black worms.
The problem with most fresh foods like fish, squid, and scallops is that we are only feeding the muscle of these "meats" Most of the nutrition lies in the viscera or guts. In the sea, fish eat entire fish, not just the fillets. Almost all of the vitamin "A" resides in the liver of fish (Vitamin A in a shark makes up almost a quarter of it's weight in it's liver)
From my 40 years of diving I can tell you that most fish eat other fish, entire fish. Even tangs which are algae eaters pick up many baby fish in their quest for algae.
When we feed live worms we are feeding the entire worm, Worms are mostly protein and contain oil, not fat. Never having eating one myself (on purpose anyway:eek: ) I am not sure how much of what type of oil worms contain but I am fairly certain that they contain a good quantity of omega 3 oil.
I have been telling people for years that fish in breeding condition (which they seldom are in captivity) almost never contract disease. If you do any diving you can see the difference in wild fish as compared to captive fish.
Anyway, I will have to continue this later as to keeping, obtaining, and feeding worms.
Here is some information about them.
Although there are many good types of food and some great types of food I would like to mention a food that I believe almost no one (except me) uses to feed to saltwater fish. I am refering to live blackworms which are sold in just about every LFS (in NY anyway) but I find that they are rare in other states.
I know about the talk that freshwater foods should not be fed to saltwater fish and that is mostly true except for worms.
Fish will get into breeding condition in a couple of weeks by feeding live blackworms, how do I know? I have been feeding blackworms to fish to induce spawning and general good health for three decades. When I started in this hobby the only fish for sale were blue devils and a few other damsels. At the time I was also keeping fresh water and brackish fish so I always had blackworms. After just over a week of eating live blackworms, blue devils would start to spawn. I had one pair in particular that lived 7 years and spawned every few weeks by eating black worms almost exclusively. I also believe that they were responsible for my moorish Idol to reach almost five years old.
(he died in an accident) Blue devils, when sold are for the most part blue (duh) with clear tails. After feeding blackworms for a while some of the fish will also develop blue tails and these are the males. (personal experience) I don't know if they were born males or became males but since I have spawned many of them I know they are males. I do not keep blue devils any more but I never forgot what those worms did for the damsels.
I now keep mostly gobies now (I get on a kich every now and then, now it's gobies) :rolleye1:
Anyway, just about all fish will eat worms and you can see very plainly how healthy fish will become with this food. Copperband butterflies in particular will really thrive with them and I would not keep a copperband without black worms.
The problem with most fresh foods like fish, squid, and scallops is that we are only feeding the muscle of these "meats" Most of the nutrition lies in the viscera or guts. In the sea, fish eat entire fish, not just the fillets. Almost all of the vitamin "A" resides in the liver of fish (Vitamin A in a shark makes up almost a quarter of it's weight in it's liver)
From my 40 years of diving I can tell you that most fish eat other fish, entire fish. Even tangs which are algae eaters pick up many baby fish in their quest for algae.
When we feed live worms we are feeding the entire worm, Worms are mostly protein and contain oil, not fat. Never having eating one myself (on purpose anyway:eek: ) I am not sure how much of what type of oil worms contain but I am fairly certain that they contain a good quantity of omega 3 oil.
I had som eknee surgery a few hours ago and will have to continue this later if anyone is interested as to obtaining, keeping and feeding this food source.

:dance:
Have a great day.
Paul

[Aquabucket]

Being an LFS manager I have used live black worms on SW fish for years especially with copperbands and other finicky species. In most cases the newly acquired fish won't take to any other foods offered. Once they start feeding on black worms they soon become receptive to other foods. I definitely recommend them for any fish that refuses to eat prepared foods.

[edwing206]

Sounds good.
I will have to try this sometime.

[Paul B]

I see I have a double post. That first post looked long to me, it is there twice. Sorry.
OK so I am not the only one who feeds black worms
I do not rinse them because I keep them in clean water but I don't transfer the water from the worms to my tank. I pick them up with an old tweezer and put them in soem fresh water then I suck them up a few at a time with a baster looking thing and squirt them in front of the fish. Blackworms live about 20-30 seconds in saltwater so I doubt mandarins would eat many, if any of them.
There are three ways I know of how to keep them alive. One is to keep them between 40 and 50 degrees. That is difficult because refrigerators run at about 35 degrees. The second way is to keep them in a device specifically made for that purpose. It is a worm keeper that is available at a LFS. The worms are put onto a very fine mesh which is just touching the surface of fresh water in a container. I don't like those two methods because because the worms can't be fed and will gradually lose nutrition and shrink. I prefer to keep them in fresh water and feed them. This is a little tricky because worms eat a lot and put out a lot of waste. You need to grow bacteria on the sides of the container before you can successfully keep the worms for any length of time or the water will become very foul in a few hours. I have a plastic container about 8"X8". For a couple of weeks before I get the worms I "feed" the water with a cheap suspension food for corals or even Selcon. After a while the sides of the container will become slippery with a bacterial film. This bacteria does the same as live rock does and utilizes wastes of the worms. I add enough worms to cover about 1/4 of the bottom with airation the worms can be kept indefinately but they still must be fed with the coral food or just about anything, even flake food or pellets can be used. You can change the water but don't clean the sides. At first the water will foul every day or even twice a day, that is just a bacterial bloom which will subside soon.
Eventually the worms will keep the water sparkling clean. My culture has been going for years.
I also find that adding 2 drops of Metheline Blue to the worms helps to keep the water cleaner longer, it also tints the worms blue which is kind of wierd
My knee surgery was not that bad and any day that I don't have to go to work is a good day
Have a great day.
Paul

[davidryder]

Paul B - thanks for the info. Do the worms reproduce?

[Paul B]

Yes they do. They come apart in segments. You just have to keep them as above and feed them. They are very cheap though and a few bucks last me for a couple of months.
Paul

[Aquabucket]

We keep our cultures going at the store by running RO waste water through them. The container holding the worms simply overflows into a sink.

[smithcreek]

Yeah, blackworms are great. I doubled the weight of a tiny black clown in about two or three weeks on them, and put most of the weight back on a skinny target mandarin in the same time. I reccomend them to anyone with a mandarin that might not be getting enough pods in their tank. The only problem you might run into is all the fish like them so much they will start refusing frozen foods, waiting for the blackworms they know are coming.

Thanks for the info on keeping them. I've just been keeping them in the fridge and they stay alive for a couple weeks with a water change every day or other day, but they do look a bit thinner by the end of two weeks.

[Tang Salad]

Paul- thanks for the information- and take it easy on that knee. I'd say stay away from work for at least a week :D

Be honest though, I'm not sure what these black worms are. I don't know if they're available where I live (taiwan).

They sell someting here, frozen, that is small chunks of tiny worms. Length roughly 1cm, and width less than 1mm. They come in dense masses, all chunked together. They have a very dark brown/red color, though. Does this sound like he same thing?

[andyjd]

Interesting, I might have to find some :)

[alan214]

Do any Texas reefers know if they sell these at any LFS's in the Dallas area?

[piercho]

Paul,
do you know genus and specie? I don't even know what these things look like. I've had a very hard time acclimating Meicanthus blennies, these blacworms sound like they might do the trick, at least as far as getting the blennies feeding.

[Ritten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9824245#post9824245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tang Salad
Paul- thanks for the information- and take it easy on that knee. I'd say stay away from work for at least a week :D

Be honest though, I'm not sure what these black worms are. I don't know if they're available where I live (taiwan).

They sell someting here, frozen, that is small chunks of tiny worms. Length roughly 1cm, and width less than 1mm. They come in dense masses, all chunked together. They have a very dark brown/red color, though. Does this sound like he same thing?

Are they blood worms maybe?

[Tang Salad]

Yes, 'blood worms' sounds very possible. I used them for a while a few years ago, but was then warned by a friend that they're extremely polluting.

[davidryder]

They aren't blood worms, they are called 'black worms' and are thin and long - and solid black. I've seen them at my LFS.

These are the types of threads that should be inside a sticky thread. Like a thread with links to threads like this, which is sticky.

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9825083#post9825083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davidryder
They aren't blood worms, they are called 'black worms' and are thin and long - and solid black. I've seen them at my LFS.

I think Ritten was ID-ing the different worms I described; not the ones Paul originally posted about. Sorry about the distractionation. :p

But thanks for your description:<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9825083#post9825083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davidryder
thin and long - and solid black. I now realize that I haven't seen these black worms before.

I agree about the sticky idea. Let's put it right under the stickies for Aiptasia and 2nd Floor Heavy Tank questions.:D

[davidryder]

Hahah yeah like a thread with the most commonly started threads in it. But that might decrease RC's traffic.

[ralphie16]

Just about every book i have read about captive aquarium care has mentioned the benfits of feeding black worms. I have done so since i began this hobby and agree with PaulB on the perceived health benefits.

[Paul B]

I am only posting this link to show a picture of the worms. I know nothing about this company.
http://aquaticfoods.com/blackwormcare.html

I am supposed to be out of work for 6 weeks just in time to get the other knee fixed. That one is supposed to keep me out for 6 months which is great because I plan to retire in a year or less :lol:

[davidryder]

Paul that's awesome!! So 3 of those 12 months are spent 'recuperating' :)

[sunfishh]

Paul thanks for the tip about the black worms. Do you refrigerate your worms? That part of your post was not clear. Also I hope you recover from your surgery nicely. Good luck.

[Paul B]

Sunfishh, in my second post I mention how I keep the worms. I think most people refrigerate them, I don't, but I don't do a lot of things that people do. You can keep them in the refrigerator but my wife exercizes a lot and now that I had knee surgery she can kick my a_ _. I keep them in a plastic container and feed them but it is a little work. Don't get many worms at one time. You can only fill about 25% of the bottom of the container with them or you may end up with a slimy smelly mess. But, yes, you can refrigerate them.
Paul

[Znut Reefer]

Paul,

When you said feed them, what coral food? I got the flake part. What brand of flake do you use?

[Paul B]

Znut Reefer, I personally use "Kent Marine Micro Vert" I think you can use almost anything but I have this so I use it. I also feed them Selcon sometimes but a little goes a long way and it will pollute the water in a very short time so feed them and watch to see if you have to change the water in a few hours. I usually feed the worms in the morning and if I fed them too much when I come home from work I change the water. It is no big deal to overfeed them and change the water. It is just tapwater or better yet RO water. They do not do well with chlorinated tap water. As I said, most people put them in the fridge but they do not stay as healthy and they get skinny. If they get smelly and a lot of them die just rinse them under running tap water and wash out the dead ones. They can live in some really polluted water that nothing else could live in. I am sure the coral food i am giving them is mostly eaten by the bacteria on the sides of the container but they stay nice and fat and healthy. If you want healthy fish in breeding condition, feed worms.
Paul

[Blindmelonbob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9819576#post9819576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Worms are mostly protein and contain oil, not fat.
Paul

Not to dispute the positive results you've been getting, but I was just reading an article about culturing worms yesterday, and it mentioned that worms are only about 11% protein...and mostly water. But I'm sure that the live food does really help kick up feeding response and appetite. Not sure what the protein content is of regular "fish food" is, and 11% may be better.

[Znut Reefer]

Hi Paul,

Thanks! One more question. How often do you feed them? I have some that I have had for a couple of months. I keep them in the refrigerator outside .:D I have not fed them. And they are doing well. But I will start feeding them. I have been rinsing them every other day with aged deep well water. And I don't seem to lose many of them.

I have a few in a small 2 gal aquarium that I have fed Spirulina pellets and they are skinny. I keep an air stone with a air pump on them to keep their oxygen level up with no loses. I change their water every other week. Using the aged water also. So I 'll give the micro food a try on them.

I have a Copperband butterfly that will not eat anything besides these blackworms. I have had the Copperband for over 4 mos. The blackworms keep him nice and fat and healthy. :)

So I think Paul does have something here about fish being healthy and stay alive eating these worms. My Copperband would have died if I had not gotten these worms for him. I have tried several times to get him off the blackworms using Brineshrimp (frozen) no live ones avail. Bloodworms, PE Mysis
shrimp, Sally's Mysis. And he will not eat anything but these worms.

And the worms do seem to have a small amount of oil on their water surface I see it everytime before I rinse them.:D

[piercho]

OK, great link to the CA company Paul; that gave me a picture, a scientific name, and a source to get them from. I kept getting "blacworms" confused with cultured nematodes as described in the FAF Plankton Culture Manual.You can keep them in the refrigerator but my wife exercizes a lot and now that I had knee surgery she can kick my a_ _. OK, so that one got me laughing. Funny how men mellow out and women get fiestier once we pass midlife. When my wife and I moved into this house a year and a half ago, it came with an old fridge in the basement - what has become the "beer" fridge. Mine doesn't mind jars of stinky goo in the beer fridge.

Once you are retired, are you going to write that how-to reef-keeping book you talked about? Like, how to grow blackworms and get picky fish started feeding?

[Paul B]

Blindmelonbob, I want you to question me. I am not the God of worms and I would like to know where you read that. I really don't know exactly what worms are composed of but I have read nothing but good things about them plus I have been using them for many years. Probably longer than most people here have been alive. They really put fish into breeding condition in a week or two.
Howard I have never ordered them on line and I know nothing of that company. I just wanted to show a picture. You will have a problem if you get too many of them at once. Maybe you can split an orger with a few people. I also would not feed them if they are in a refrigerator.
I keep them as I said and I use metheline blue to keep them from screwing up the water too much. It doesen't kill all of the bacteria, just makes them reproduce slower.
I am still writing that book and when I retire I will really try to print it before everything is out of date like it is becomming now. If I tell all my methods now I will have nothing to write :lol:
Znut, I feed the worms every day in the morning. I feed the worms to the fish almost every day with other foods.

[Blindmelonbob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9832922#post9832922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Blindmelonbob, I want you to question me. I am not the God of worms and I would like to know where you read that.

Okay, went back and found it...but it pertains to earth worms. Results may vary for blackworms.

http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/publications/worm/worm.html

"This would indicate that on whole, live earthworms are less than 14% protein. Therefore its use as food or a feed supplement would probably be limited."

[stealle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9834003#post9834003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Blindmelonbob
Okay, went back and found it...but it pertains to earth worms. Results may vary for blackworms.

http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/publications/worm/worm.html

"This would indicate that on whole, live earthworms are less than 14% protein. Therefore its use as food or a feed supplement would probably be limited."

There is no mention in this article about worms being fed to fish "as food or a feed supplement". Who knows what they are talking about? There is also no mention about blackworms specifically.

I don't think he is saying it is the best "protein" source. He is saying it is the best "food" source. Meaning that not only does it have protein, it has fats, vitamins and who knows what else a live food source can offer the inhabitants of your tank. And, specifically, who knows what live blackworms can offer your fish. Apparently Paul B knows! (and a few others) His experience with them is proof enough.

I'll definitely jot this tip down somewhere!!!

[Paul B]

There are many sites on worms Blhttp://www.waynesthisandthat.com/blackworms.htmack
But I really can't find much nutritional information on them.
The big problem with them is that if you get too many they will not live long. As I said, most people put them in the refrigerator and if you have a bunch of them thats where you will have to store them unless you have a spare tank in a cool place.
I just but them every week at an LFS but they are all over the place in NY.
I put in one or two drops of metheline blue (available at pet shops) This turns the worms a nice blue :lol: But it also keeps them longer by limiting the bacteria. You still need to change the water every day or two. More often if there are too many worms and they start to die. Even if you find half the worms daed just rinse them in fresh water to wash away the dead ones and the rest may live. It is amazing the conditions these things can live in.
I squirt them to my shrimp and crabs and also feed anemones with them. Those long tenticle anemones especially like them and it keeps their tentacles long. If you feed long tentacle anemones large food, their tentacles will shorten and become fatter to accomidate the larger food, but thats for another thread.
If you keep the worms in a square container they climb on each other and crawl up the corners. Keep the water level only about 2" and at least 2" from the top of the container.
Paul
:dance:

[Paul B]

I see that link doesen't work.
http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/black_worms.htm
[Again, I never ordered live worms on line, or anything else for that matter so I don't know anything about these sites.
There may be some sponsors on RC that sells them but I don't really know

[techigirl78]

So, are these worms like fishy viagra?

[Paul B]

So, are these worms like fishy viagra?

Since I have no experience with Viagra I really don't know.
Could be I guess

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9843736#post9843736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Since I have no experience with Viagra I really don't know.
Could be I guess
Good answer! :lol:

[KyleO]

I just placed my first order for Blackworms.......Paul, thanks for sharing!

[Paul B]

KyleO, follow whatever directions you get with them. If they are not kept properly you will end up with a smelly mess, if that happens, forget my name :lol:
I buy a little at a time and have no problem. I think with a lot you will have to refrigerate them.
Now your fish are going to be the healthiest on RC, except for mine of course :smokin:
Good luck.