Tempered Tanks

[Demeter]

I was going to drill a 20L to install a bulkhead. Then I remembered that a 20L may use tempered glass. I emailed all-glass aquarium. They said the entire tank is made of tempered glass. I read a post or two where some have drilled a 20L for bulkheads. Can this be done? Next, do you know if all tanks up to a certain size, i.e. 75 gals, are all tempered glass. The all-glass website does not list if the tank is tempered or not and the person I spoke to wasn't sure. Thought this would be a good place to find out for sure.

[shyland83]

all tanks up to a certain size are not tempered. the bottoms on a lot of tanks are tempered but it's rare for the sides. I would guess the sides on your tank are not tempered and they say that to cover themselves, but i'm just speculating. I recently drilled a 40breeder and a 20H without a problem.

[eznet2u]

Where did you want to drill it? Side or bottom?

I just drilled a 20g tall AGA tank about 3hrs ago... Worked great.

Starting the drill... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7uGjZ1_tks)
All the way through... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz43a2UmS_I)

The hole doesn't open up, as I have 5 layers of masking tape under the glass. This keeps the glass disc from falling and it keeps the water in the little dam until you cut it through.

I know they are short videos, but if you look to my left you can see what this one now looks like. This is the second hole for a valve and coupler. First is already installed in the video.

I SAY...GO FOR IT!!!

[BeanAnimal]

I SAY...GO FOR IT!!!

Heh? AGA confirmed that the whole tank is tempered. You can NOT drill tempered glass. I would classify that advice as rather poor.

[coyoteseven]

All Glass Aquarium Technical Information (http://www.all-glass.com/services/techinfo.shtml)

[ej797]

You beat me to it coyoteseven.

I was looking for that info to post hear and by the time I got back there it was.

I say drill it. People drill AGA tanks all the time. I have a 40 Gal Breeder I will be drilling soon.

Good Luck,
EJ

[BeanAnimal]

You guys amaze me...

Maybe the better advice would be to call AGA again and confirm the previous information and then ask why the website shows a discprepancy.

NOT ALL AGA tanks are tempered, not ALL have tempered bottoms. Some have tempered sides and bottoms. 55 Gallon AGAs are ALL tempered, NOT just the bottoms.

Very poor advice guys.

[ej797]

Depending on your budget and future in drilling tanks but you may want to get one of these.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?vertical=TOOL&cat=Power+Tool+Accessories&subcat=Drill+Doctor+%26+Drill+Attachments&pid=00967173000&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

Thanks,
EJ

[eznet2u]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9821167#post9821167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Demeter
the person I spoke to wasn't sure.

I have yet to hear of any aquarium under 50g that is tempered on the sides.

I have drilled 6 tanks, all under 50g except 1, none have had tempered sides.

And anyway, we are talking about a 20g...$35 bucks at Petco...

I stand by my advice.

[ej797]

If you have a pair of polarized sunglasses you can put the tank in sunlight and look at it through the glasses. Tempered glass has a different look than normal glass through those glasses. Kinda of hard to explain what it looks like but if you look at a car window that is the look of tempered glass.

BeanAnimal: Yeah, It may have been a little rash to just say DRILL IT. Do you agree with the polarized glasses technique? I have also heard that you can try to score the glass with a glass cutter. If it makes a score the glass is not tempered. What do you think about that?

Oh, and I served 4 in the US Air Force. Still feels good to here people say thank you. Your Welcome, but what I did was nothing compared to our troops on the sand right now. They deserve all our thanks.

EJ

[ej797]

eznet2: That was what I was thinking. Except for the standing by may advice, he really should be sure before he drills. If it is tempered it is all over and you never now demeter's budget. Shattering this tank may really suck for him. I know if I shatter my 40 Gal breeder It would be a real bad day.

[eznet2u]

Scoring glass is a definitive way to tell...If it is regular...you have a scratch...If it is tempered, you have a billion pieces...

BTW. Thank you for your service to our country ej797

[ej797]

Thats why I asked, I think it was more of a light pass to see it it marks the glass but not hard enough to shatter the glass. Is that possible, if not it is kind of like testing to see if it is tempered by drilling. You will definitly find out, but not exactly what we are looking for is it! LOL

EJ

[vdubfiend]

polarized glasses or a polarized film

annealed and tempered will look totally different

[ej797]

??? Not sure I get your post vdubfiend

[Randall_James]

Bean was being a bit on the sarcastic side I would have to guess :)

If you are willing to throw the tank away, then disregard their information and hope whomever you spoke with was wrong, otherwise, you are about to bust a perfectly good tank... (it is your money anyway :) )

[eznet2u]

I am 99.999% sure this tank is NOT tempered. Tempered glass is used for strength. 20g really don't need to be that strong. If the glass is 3/16ths or better...I would drill it without a second thought. If it less than 3/16ths think twice. Tempering glass adds cost and time. Most manufacturers will not invest either in a 20g.


ej797 - I have read that the Sunglasses trick doesn't work all the time.

[BruiseAndy]

Arent the edges of tempered a lot smoother as well almost a polished look?

[ej797]

Does anyone know of anything that does. I am going for the drill on my 40 Gal Breeder because of the info on the link above. But, I have thought about drilling my main tank. A custom 121 gal cube that I picked up at the LFS for 300 bucks because someone never picked it up. I already have the hole cut for the inwall mount I am going to do but I would love to plump a closed loop through bulkheads as opposed to over the tank. If I shatter that tank it would be a real, real bad day.

[vdubfiend]

we have pieces of polarized film...if someone brought in a piece of glass and wasnt certain if it was or wasnt tempered we could use a piece of the film (or some polarized glasses as said above) to determine whether or not it was tempered. the tempered glass looks "splotchy" for lack of a better term hahah- compared to the raw(annealed) glass...

the tips about trying to score the glass to determine whether or not its tempered are just asking for trouble

[ej797]

I have looked through glasses to try to figure out if glass is tempered. But I read on another post here to put one lense behind the glas and one in front and then move them around. Never heard of that. What method would be most reliable. Is it possible that those that say that this method doesn't work just didn't know what to look for?

[eznet2u]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9822252#post9822252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ej797
A custom 121 gal cube that I picked up at the LFS for 300 bucks

(Thinks to himself..Luck Bast)......I would definitely call the manufacturer on this one.
I know/drill small tanks. Not giving any advice on that one.

[vdubfiend]

raw glass can be polished as smooth as tempered

[ej797]

You have no Idea how lucky, it was the exact dimensions I needed. Not quite cube.

I don't want to hijack demeter's thread to talk about my tank.

Check it out here.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1067997

[Demeter]

Thanks all for the info. I'm upset that all-glass support isn't better versed in their own product.

coyoteseven -
That is exactly what I was trying to get from support. Thanks for the link.

I'll get the tank from Petco and drill the right-lower-side for a bulkhead.

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9822044#post9822044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ej797
If you have a pair of polarized sunglasses you can put the tank in sunlight and look at it through the glasses. Tempered glass has a different look than normal glass through those glasses. Kinda of hard to explain what it looks like but if you look at a car window that is the look of tempered glass.

BeanAnimal: Yeah, It may have been a little rash to just say DRILL IT. Do you agree with the polarized glasses technique? I have also heard that you can try to score the glass with a glass cutter. If it makes a score the glass is not tempered. What do you think about that?

Oh, and I served 4 in the US Air Force. Still feels good to here people say thank you. Your Welcome, but what I did was nothing compared to our troops on the sand right now. They deserve all our thanks.

EJ

There are several hints. The polarized lens trick is one of them. I do not like the glass cutter trick... there is a chance that scoring tempered glass will cause it to break.

Anybody who wears the uniform deserves credit. Freedom comes at a high price; people who volunteer to maintain that freedom deserve the gratitude of a nation. Sadly, many people do not bother to remember why and how they are free.

[ej797]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9823566#post9823566 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Anybody who wears the uniform deserves credit. Freedom comes at a high price; people who volunteer to maintain that freedom deserve the gratitude of a nation. Sadly, many people do not bother to remember why and how they are free.

True, very true!
EJ

[coyoteseven]

You're welcome, Demeter.

There is another way to tell with 99.9% surety that a panel may not be tempered... if there are chips missing on the side of the panel, the odds are in your favor that it is standard glass. This can be useful if you happen to get an older or unknown make of tank. Again, this is not foolproof, but the odds are favorable, IME.


From an old Army vet, to my brothers and sisters that are serving and have served...

HOOAHH!!!

[hllywd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9822349#post9822349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ej797
I have looked through glasses to try to figure out if glass is tempered. But I read on another post here to put one lense behind the glas and one in front and then move them around. Never heard of that. What method would be most reliable. Is it possible that those that say that this method doesn't work just didn't know what to look for?

Put one one each side of the glass, rotate the lenses to block most of the light and move the lenses simultaneously to find "dark boltches", "stripes", or a "pattern" in the glass. 100% success for me. It works best if you are looking through the glass and the lenses at a uniform background, I like a blue sky on a clear day. You can try this on the side window of your car as it is definately tempered to see the effect.

Polarized sunglasses work but not the best because of their extra tint, camera filters or polarized film works better. If you wear polarized glasses you've probably seen a similar effect as strong sunlight reflects off of a car window showing a pattern of light and dark reflection.

Tim

[eznet2u]

I might suggest that you buy a couple of pieces of glass from a hardware store
or glass shop and practice first...I broke the first tank I drilled.

I have not used the drill guide, but I think I know what I am going to buy next time
I'm in Sears.

A little advice...

Use a lot of water. I make a dam out of my daughters clay. 1.5" tall. Fill it with water.
I also put 5 or 6 layers of masking tape on the back of the glass to catch the "hole".
Cover hole size plus 2 or 3 inches. Check to make sure drill bit is seated in the chuck
straight (no wobble). I think that was the problem on my first tank. Start the drill at
medium speed BEFORE you touch the glass. Start at a slight angle until you have a
groove for the bit to ride in...then straighten it up slowly.

Above all...DO NOT PUSH ON THE DRILL!!!
If the bit starts to jump, lift it off and start again...

I would wish you luck...But you'll do great...

Let us know how it goes. Pictures are always nice. :)