Need advice from you Pros on a possible Pony tank

[Saldarya]

Hello all,

I have just acquired a new, unique tank and was considering Seahorses. I woudl like your opinions on potential types and numbers. I woudl really like to house some of the larger species and a chiller is available if neccesary.

Tank is about 120gal, 6' long, 31" tall, and 12" deep. Certainly some live rock built up on one end fading into a bed of sea grass with perhaps Mangroves planted on the other end is my thought.

Again, from a 25 year vet and SPS addict, I come humbly into this forum and eagerly into the world of Seahorses.

Would love yoru feedback.

[fishymann]

well hippocampus ingens is one of the largest species, so are hippocampus abdominalis. you could probably do like 3-5 pairs? (not sure though hard to find a lot of info on stocking them). A chiller would be good just because it would help to keep the temperature constant. its very long but not super tall so you may want to be careful of the larger species.

Sounds like it will be an awesome tank, a bed of seagrass would provide great hunting grounds for the horses.

[panmanmatt]

I would not reccomend abdominalis or ingens as a starter seahorse. Yes they are the largest species but have very specific needs.

Ingens can't not be exposed to anything that has come in contact with any other species of seahorse. They also require cooler temps in the 68-70 degree range. Not to mention that the only breeder of ingens is in Mexico, making obtaining them difficult as they aren't readily imported.

Abdominals require a maximum temperature of 64 degrees, they are a cold water species from Australia. In a tank that large, it will require quite the chiller to maintain those temps. Also they are only bred in Australia but are readily imported into the US.

I would recommend a nice grouping of either reidi, erectus, or kuda. They are larger species and can be rather colourful. All are readily available as captive bred here in the US.

I would recommend checking out SeahorseSource.com and Dracomarine.org as palces to purchase your horses from. Both are located here in the US and breed their own seahorses. SeahorseSource also imports some species from Australia and occassionaly gets some from the breeder in Mexico.

Seagrasses are a great set up for seahorses, however they require metal halide lighting which will increase the tank temperature so be sure you have the means to keep the tank cool. On a tank of that depth you are looking at probably 400w halides to reach the bottom. That also means having an area where there is less lighting for the horses to get out of the bright light. Seahorse need a tank temp in the 72-74 degree range, even for the tropical species.

[fishymann]

very sorry for the mis information.

[panmanmatt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9882540#post9882540 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishymann
very sorry for the mis information.

Mike,

No need to apologize. They are not very common species so most folks don't know about there specific needs. It's a learning experience for all of us involved.

I should be the one apologizing if it seemed I was contradicitng you. That was not my intention.

[fishymann]

Not at all matt, i think 4 or so pairs of erectus would look BEAUTIFUL in that size tank, i know how beautiful one pair is.

[scapes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9883123#post9883123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishymann
Not at all matt, i think 4 or so pairs of erectus would look BEAUTIFUL in that size tank, i know how beautiful one pair is.

if you ask the dracomarine owner like I did, he will say 1 pair/10 gallons. so based on his expert advice and you do have a 120, you could have up to 12 pair.

[fishymann]

you most likely could have 12 pairs BUT 12 pairs would be 24 seahorses thats A) a lot of money B) a lot of food C)just a lot of seahorse in general

[Saldarya]

Thanks for all teh good info....

I had initially considered the Abdominals, and although I was not concerned with the temp issues ( I have an extra 1 HP chiller sitting around) I am concerned about condensation on the glass in S. Louisiana.

That being said, after more research, I am leaning toward 3 pair of Erectus, a total of 6, and then add in some Pipefish. My hope is with only six in the tank, that will be plenty of room.

ANy other thoughts or suggestions?

[fishymann]

its pretty much a bad idea to mix Syngnathidaes, erectus are going to be immune to certain diseases that pipefish will not be and vise versa.

[Saldarya]

Are you suggesting that Seahorses and Pipefish are not to be kept together?

[fishymann]

correct

[panmanmatt]

The reasoning behind not mixing the seahorses withthe pipefis is that the seahorses should be captive bred, whereas there is no source for captive bred pipefish here in the US.

Mixing captive bred and wild caught syngnathids is not recommended for healthy reasons. Wild caught specimens are usually fully of bacteria and pathogens that can wipe out a captive bred tank.

[mollymonticello]

The short answer to mixing syngnathids...

Seahorses are hardy, the fact that they can breed in captivity proves that. However, prevention is the best, and often the only medicine for them. There are many common, untreatable or difficult to treat seahorse diseases out there.

Vibrio...it's everywhere, but hits syngnathids hard. Treatment is difficult at best. There are...I don't know...how many different strains of it, and populations (including CB populations) can develop immunities to certain kinds they carry, but be extremely vulnerable to a strain they have never been in contact with, which is carried by another species or population. Different strains of Vibrio grow in different temps, violently above 74 degrees.

Lately, there's been an increase in "weak snick" cases that are resistant to treatment, and no one knows what's causing them. I won't even mention "webbing" which no one has ever cured and no one knows the cause. IGBD is another you may have heard of.

Not trying to scare you, but when you're used to reef fish that get "curable" diseases like ich and HLLE, etc, seahorses are REALLY different.

[shilo_1]

Sorry to hijack.....how do so many people get away with mixing SH's and pipes if its such a big risk ?

[fishymann]

because they are willing to risk both the seahorses and pipes lives.

[ann83]

Shilo, do you know how long these people who "get away with it" have had the seahorses and pipefish? They ought to live many years... so unless they did, they aren't getting away with it. I know some people who have pulled it off, but I wouldn't say I know many.

[shilo_1]

I don't mean to get everyone bothered, but it just seems that many of the people who have SH's have pipes in the tank too. It was just an innocent question...I don't have SH's or pipes - alone or together...it just seemed to me that it was a pretty common practice. Sorry to offend you...I was just trying to understand.

[ann83]

I'm not offended. I just wanted to point out that many of the people I see that say that haven't had both together for very long, and then you never hear about it again. It can be very misleading. Very few of the people that I know that have had their seahorses for many years have also been keeping pipefish in with them. For that matter, many of the people posting on this board on a regular basis have tanks with only seahorses or only pipefish, not both. That was the only point I wanted to make, so that people wouldn't read this and think it was a good idea without research.

[fishymann]

just wondering, would a WC seahorse have a better chance of living with a pipefish? Just thought that could ocme up at some point.

[ann83]

Well, if you collect wild caught pipefish and wild caught seahorses from the same water... like collecting both from the same area of the gulf of mexico or both from the same area of chesapeake bay, then yes, mixing is less risky because they have probably been exposed to the same disease strains. However, then you have your own issues with having wild caught seahorses (parasite treatments, dips, de-wormings, eating only live foods, etc.). But, if the seahorses and pipefish are collected from different areas, then the same mixing problems apply because they likely haven't been exposed to the same strains of bacteria.

Proper wild caught quarantining and treatment procedures, low temperatures, UV sterilizers, gradual introduction, and other precautions can also be used to lessen the risk of mixing pipefish and seahorses. And, for those members in Australia, captive bred pipefish are available, so if both the seahorses and the pipefish are purchased from the same source, there is also a lessened risk.

[Brock Fluharty]

Dracomarine said 1 pair/10 gallons????? Surely he didn't mean H. erectus. That would be way overboard. 12 pairs in a 120 is too many horses. I think maybe 6-8 horses would look good. People always want to cram seahorses into tanks. Quality over quantity people.

[Brock Fluharty]

I agree on the diseases. I lost a pregnant male to a tail infection (vibrio) and afterwards, I did a pouch flush, to see if any babies were alive. There were 14 little guys, all dead. All because the temp spiked up to 76*F for 2 days.

[WILDTHING]

Saldarya, something to consider is what are you going to do with all the babies all those pairs of SH's are going to produce. If your comfortable with disposing of them then don't give it another thought. But if you'r not then be prepared for HOARDS of babies. A single pair can have (depending on species) a hundred or MORE babies every few weeks for a good part of the yr.

You might consider getting mostly females and just one or two males or all females. I mention all females because then you won't need to worry about the possibility of pouch problems that some males have/get.

If you're considering Erectus and may want to try raising the babies be aware that there are Northern Erectus which Draco carries, they do not hitch at birth and are much harder to raise. Seahorse Source who I can't say enough good stuff about carries the Southern Erectus which is a much easier baby to raise.

[agood69er4u]

It's not the # of sh to gallon , that causes the issues ....... it's the water quality that's the question. we have 9 reidi in a 46 gal w/ 30 gal sump. A couple of Deltec fluidize reactors and 400 gph water movement. I do a 30% water change every other week and they do fine. Have fry atleast once a month.. it's more of the effort to keep the water quality up then the stocking ratio

[Duddly01]

WILDTHING,
Jorge at Draco Marine does also have Southern Erectus, just doesn't seem to have them on his web page. I bought my pair from him not long ago.

[fishymann]

draco has southern BUT i'm pretty sure hes just getting a good population of them so ask jorge if he can get you them and im sure he'll follow through