Cilica sand

[useskaforevil]

ive been using cilica sand for awhile now without having any problems, and i just wanted to know if anyone using cilica has had a bad experience that they could attribute to their sand. thanks guys

[Peter Eichler]

It's silica sand and many people use it without any problems.

[useskaforevil]

well good, so its only downside so far is that it can make me feel stupid for not being able to spell. anyone else?

why do people spend so much time and $ on argonite sand then?

[phljess]

I believe it is because many people fear that silica will leachout of the sand and cause an algae outbreak. Another reason is some people also believe aragonite sand helps to buffer the pH of the tank.

[Pea-brain]

The reasons I use aragonite are as follows:

#1 I am sure I am getting pollutant free sand that is safe for aquariums
#2 Because silica sand is sharp and abrasive. In bottom dwellers it can cause damage, scarring, irritation etc. I happen to like bottom dwellers, so I try not hurt them
#3 the chemical properties such as bufferings to some, if low, extent.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9926344#post9926344 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by useskaforevil
well good, so its only downside so far is that it can make me feel stupid for not being able to spell. anyone else?

why do people spend so much time and $ on argonite sand then?

For me it's mainly because I don't like the tanish look of most silica sand.

For many others it's because for many years in this hobby we were told to not use silica sand because it would leach silicates and cause algae problems. Now, it is possible for silica sand to leach silicates into the aquarium, but if it's enough to cause a problem is up for debate. Considering many people have successful aquariums using silica sand I wouldn't worry much about it.

[cristhiam]

I use 5" DBS silica sand from lowes with no problems, I have gobies and blenies and they don't seem to be bother by sifting the sand :), I had a jawfish with no problems building his home. I did use argonite on a 55, but I will cost me a lot $$$ to fill up the 125 so I went with playsand from lowes.

[cristhiam]

pictures of my tank here :)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1094171

[nemofish2217]

silca sand = looks fake and unnatural....IMO

[Paintbug]

i have been running silica sand for over two years myself. none of my sand shifters seem to care. :)

[tkeracer619]

If your going silica the best route is quality pool filter sand. They often have larger round particles and not rough chunks made from crushing.

The only reason I don't use it in the display is the color.

[daytonians]

I have used Silica sand for the last year with no problems. Your system actually needs silicates in the water so diatoms can form properly. So, silica sand can actually be beneficial. Myself, I like to mix types of sand. Some silica some aragonite. Mixing in some aragonite lightens the color some also.

[HBtank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9926582#post9926582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pea-brain
The reasons I use aragonite are as follows:

#1 I am sure I am getting pollutant free sand that is safe for aquariums
#2 Because silica sand is sharp and abrasive. In bottom dwellers it can cause damage, scarring, irritation etc. I happen to like bottom dwellers, so I try not hurt them
#3 the chemical properties such as bufferings to some, if low, extent.

Thanks for outlining some of the most common myths for me.


I use silica sand and always will. I have had great success.

[HBtank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9927741#post9927741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nemofish2217
silca sand = looks fake and unnatural....IMO



I am sad though, I just found out that all my favorite beaches are "fake and unnantural".. :lol:

[tkeracer619]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9928063#post9928063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HBtank
I am sad though, I just found out that all my favorite beaches are "fake and unnantural".. :lol:



Must find some sweet corals there on the beach. ;)

[nebraskareef]

Mitch Carl runs silica sand on his sulawesi beach surge tank at the Omaha Zoo. He has had zero problems.

One thing to remember though, is silicate sand will scratch glass easily. Aragonite is likely to crush before scratching the glass.

Daniel

[Whisperer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9928063#post9928063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HBtank
I am sad though, I just found out that all my favorite beaches are "fake and unnantural".. :lol:
Yup, all the beaches in southwest Florida are fake and unnatural because they are mostly silica sand. Hah, I almost got fooled! :lol:

[reefshadow]

One thing to remember though, is silicate sand will scratch glass easily.
Aesthetic issues aside, this is the only common "fact" in this post so far that is true, from my personal experience. I've been using silica for years.

Mine is BRIGHT white, not tan at all. The only difference in look I have noticed is that many aragonites are not quite as white and sparkley as the silica I use, and have a sightly pink tone. They both look nice.

I've seen some gross dirty aragonite, that had chunks of metal, pieces of wood, pieces of charcoal, ect... The Quikrete Medium grade silica sand I use however is industrial grade and has been screened and washed many times, I have never found an impurity in a bag of it yet, organic or ferrous. Other brands of silica I don't know. This is what I use.

Unnatural? As HB says, the majority of our worlds beaches have very high ratios of silica. It's just as "natural" as aragonite, and the right brand looks very nice IMO.

Cut up your fish and inverts? Never happen. I have an incredibly live SB and have many benthic animals that do just fine.

Algae? Nope. Take a look at my pics. I also don't currently run a 'fuge, so obviously silica doesn't contribute to algae for me. I get a powdery growth of diatoms every few days on the glass that I have to wipe off, free live phyto! It's no biggie.

Buffering? Nope, it doesn't, neither does aragonite.

Save you money? Yes! I put a 2-3 inch SB in my 240 for less than 10 bucks. An equivalent amount of aragonite would have cost me minimum 200 bucks. Ummm, no thanks :)

So my conclusion? If you like the look of aragonite and don't mind spending much more money, go for it! It's all aesthetics when debating the pros and cons.

Here's a couple pics, sorry for the crappy cam.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/reefshadow/frontapril.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/reefshadow/sideapril.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/20899sideapril.jpg

[D-Captain]

Everything on planet earth is natural, be it found in "nature" or man-made. Go with what you like.

Craig

[Pea-brain]

A few quotes on silica sand by Dr. Roy Caldwell, a mantis shrimp expert and invertebrate biologist at Berkeley:

it is important to understand the mechanical as well as chemical properties of the substrate you use. Silica sand often has very sharp and abrasive edges. Animals you keep on or in it often begin to show signs of abrasion.....while this may not be fatal, It can detract away from the appearance of the animal and lead to infection.

keep in mind that this is about mantis shrimp, which are pretty heavily armored predators, although they do have some frill and soft edges. I really didn't want to have to go searching and quoting to prove my point. Also calcium based sand DOES buffer water. there is no doubt abou that. The doubt come in about when it begins to buffer. I believe the buffering point begins at 7.6, which is trouble, and pretty useless for saltwater use, but it does technically buffer. Do what you want with the info I have provided, I will argue no further.

Dan

[reefshadow]

it is important to understand the mechanical as well as chemical properties of the substrate you use. Silica sand often has very sharp and abrasive edges. Animals you keep on or in it often begin to show signs of abrasion.....while this may not be fatal, It can detract away from the appearance of the animal and lead to infection.
I dunno.... I just guess I kind of have to disagree with this, no offense to Dr Roy, he is awesome. Benthic inverts large and small; both hardy and delicate are all over the world, while only a comparatively very small portion of our seas and beaches sand are calcium based. Sand as a general rule has rounded edges due to constant roiling and agitation; one of the common properties of sand. If I walk on tumbled glass marbles, I am not going to cut my foot open no matter how hard I rub, yet the same material could cut you badly in raw form. If I rubbed a acropora skeleton across my arm as hard as I could, I would be bleeding and probably infected.

A classroom study on sandbeds done by Dr. Ron Shimek showed that the silica bed supported much more life and diversity than aragonite. I'm not claiming superiority, but function could certainly be argued to be at least the same. I know mine is literally crawling with soft bodied life, and I have had benthic organisms that have lived at least as long as regular expectancy. So you have 2 acknowledged experts in their respective fields that have directly opposing views. Not everyone can know everything and be right 100 percent of the time. I am speaking directly from personal experience however, having used this sand in at least 8 tanks in the last 5-6 yrs.
Also calcium based sand DOES buffer water. there is no doubt abou that. The doubt come in about when it begins to buffer. I believe the buffering point begins at 7.6, which is trouble, and pretty useless for saltwater use, but it does technically buffer.
Very true, but a fact that is meritless in this discussion because we intend to keep live marine organisms, not dead ones. So for our purposes it doesn't (or at least shouldn't, lol :p )

I stick by my experience that silica sand is fine, in a pure washed form.

[Paintbug]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9929902#post9929902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pea-brain

Also calcium based sand DOES buffer water. there is no doubt abou that. The doubt come in about when it begins to buffer. I believe the buffering point begins at 7.6, which is trouble, and pretty useless for saltwater use, but it does technically buffer.

Dan

aragonite sand will buffer at about 6.8 (or so) pH. by the time your tank hit that low just about everything in it would be dead, so buffering would do little. this is the basics of how a calcium reactor works. there may be some low pH spots in a deep sand bed that will break the sand down some, and buffer a little, but the amount will not be detectable.

aragonite sand is calcium carbonate, the same thing as the rocks most of us use. if there was any buffering from the sand, the rocks would do the same thing. just so you guys and gals know diatoms can pull silicates from quartz (silica) sand, glass, and even aragonite sand. the real important factor with silica sand is to find the whitest you can. if you have tan, or other colors, those colors come from other trace elements such as iron. those elements can cause more problems than the silica sand itself.

[Pea-brain]

Okay sry if my last post was kinda mean sounding. I was in a bad mood. And I lied. I'm not done arguing :D Now I think we can agree that there are differing opinions and differing results here. I'm personally wondering what your expert's sand was, wild collected or man made. I don't know if industrial silica is man made or collected in the first place. Like you said, in the ocean the sand is tumbled nice and round. It is quite likely that silica playsand isn't quite as tumbled, and that is where the difference is. Or maybe the good Dr. Roy was using a sand that wasn't polished or smoothed, while you are. Or maybe mantis shrimp are more sensitive to the roughness than your inverts (I know you keep mantises reefshadow. if you could check and look fo scratches and such it could mean mantises are sensitive) Also I beleve calcium based sands (or at least crushed coral) have better buffering capabilities than 6.8. I used crush coral to raise my FW shrimp tank from PH of 7.0 to 7.8 or 8.0 ....

Dan

[reefshadow]

And I lied. I'm not done arguing
Haha, isn't that what we're here for? :p I prefer to call it a "lively discussion".
I'm personally wondering what your expert's sand was, wild collected or man made.
That I'm not sure of, I don't remember if it was in the article. maybe someone else can chime in here.

I know mine is quarried from a semi-local source, washed and screened then bagged and distributed. The quarry is probably from ancient marine origin however, anyway it's very rounded stuff under the scope.
I know you keep mantises reefshadow. if you could check and look fo scratches and such it could mean mantises are sensitive
Heh, you got me there, friend. It's aragonite in the nano. :D It was given to me totally free- lock, stock, and barrel and so I washed and used it. Not bad, about 350 bucks worth of tank, rock, lighting and sand. I only had to buy the mantis and add some frags. Yes, i'm a lucky dog. Cheapest nano on the planet. Stouffers says "hello, can I split your finger now? Feed me worthless human."

Would be an interesting experiment though, and since I intend to keep more mantids in the future we'll see; I will use silica. I just cannot justify the cost of aragonite with my success with silica.