How long to wait before adding corals

[Tomorleans]

to a new tank. Tank will be 4 weeks old this weekend and will get it's first water change. I dont know that there is a standard time to wait?

[arts007]

First things first, what are the parameters of the tank now. i.e. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, alkalinity, calcium, salinity

[Sk8r]

Meet the right parameters and you can start with the hardier corals. Figure a plan for calcium and alkalinity maintenance and start studying up on that, plus get the right tests, for dkh alkalinity and for calcium: corals don't need much at first, but then they start soaking it up by the spoonful, and you need to figure are you going to use a reactor, a 2 part, an additive, etc. Helps to have this figured out. Probably with your size tank you'll hand-add, and this means either the 2 part formulas or something like Kent turbo Calcium and dkh buffer---they have to go in hours apart, to avoid snowing all over your tank with precipitate.
Otherwise, you should be good to go if your tank is stable and nitrate-free. You'll also want to be very sure to keep phosphates low: if you have algae blooms, try to eliminate them. Corals don't like phosphates, and if you have algae blooms, there's phosphate in there.

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9956071#post9956071 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by arts007
First things first, what are the parameters of the tank now. i.e. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, alkalinity, calcium, salinity

PH is 8.2, Salinity 1.023, nitrites 0, nitrates 30, Ammonia 0. Dont know about the other stuff..

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9956096#post9956096 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Meet the right parameters and you can start with the hardier corals. Figure a plan for calcium and alkalinity maintenance and start studying up on that, plus get the right tests, for dkh alkalinity and for calcium: corals don't need much at first, but then they start soaking it up by the spoonful, and you need to figure are you going to use a reactor, a 2 part, an additive, etc. Helps to have this figured out. Probably with your size tank you'll hand-add, and this means either the 2 part formulas or something like Kent turbo Calcium and dkh buffer---they have to go in hours apart, to avoid snowing all over your tank with precipitate.
Otherwise, you should be good to go if your tank is stable and nitrate-free. You'll also want to be very sure to keep phosphates low: if you have algae blooms, try to eliminate them. Corals don't like phosphates, and if you have algae blooms, there's phosphate in there.

good info... thanks

[mmgm]

I would not add any corals for at least 3-6 months regardless of water parameters.... You will most likely experience algal bloom cycles which will mosy likely kill whatever corals you put into your tank before thecycle is completed. Trust me I have been doing this long enough to know not to waste your money stocking your tank befor it is ready....

Take your time and enjoy......

:D

[Tomorleans]

Which Calcium test kits are good?
Alkalinity test kit also..

[sabbath]

Salifert is a very good test kit.

[Sk8r]

Salifert tests are most common on this board and are very good and easy. MMGM is giving you very good advice and should not be disregarded: particularly sps are fussy, and just don't go there yet, except maybe for digitata, but not even that, just yet. Candycane [caulestra], however, is a good learner's coral and is very tolerant---too tolerant, to show you just how fussy fussy can be, but good for letting you experience corals and learn their ways. It's fastgrowing and tough---if your water is good. For instance, you want to get nitrate, nitrite and ammonia to 0; my param: salinity 1.025 [gives me .001 leeway in the good range]; ph 7.9-8.3; alk 8.6 at the moment, and since I added a kalk reactor; cal 420; mg 1500, a bit high. 1300 would be better. [3x the cal reading]. For the rest, just assume if you have algae, you have phosphate, and take measures not to have phosphate. It takes time to learn to balance your tank, and learn what your individual setup demands...which is different slightly for every tank. YOu want a steady [rocksteady if you can manage it] temp at around 80. Don't ever get to 84; fatality starts at 62 degrees.

Learn one thing: corals HATE change. They hate a mount that rocks, they hate change in current; they hate change in light; in light cycle; you name it, they hate it. If you can imagine a tank where nothing ever really changes, while the day cycles to night in slow increments, storms don't reach and there are no real seasons, and they're constantly bathed in the pretty-same waters of giant mother Ocean, you've got the environment where most of these corals live.

[Tomorleans]

how do you remove phosphates?

Also, What is a good basic list of test kits I need.. right now all I have is the kit for Ammonia, pH, Nitrites, Nitrates...

Phosphate kit? http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SF1133
Calcium? http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SF1115
Alkalinity? http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SF1123

I plan on buying this also.. http://www.aquatichouse.com/Supplements_files/TurboCalcium.asp

[virginiadiver69]

Sk8r, will he need to worry that much about calc and alk unless stonies are added. I have just started adding a few softies(toadstool, shrooms and zoos) and have found that regular(weekly may bring down your nitrates below 30) water changes have kept my levels right in line without dosing anything.
I do kind of agree about waiting out a few algal blooms before adding too much though.

[Tomorleans]

One other question I have is when you're usuing the test kits with the glass vial and you're matching up the color in the vial to the color card do you hold the vial against the white background or off of the background slightly.. Cause that's a difference of 40ppm nitrates or 20..

[Sk8r]

I favor stonies, but that depends on your light, as well as, of course, personal preference. Softies are great---I had them in my last [pre-move to Washington] tank. They and stonies don't get along well, so you have to make a choice or live with carbon, and I'm not convinced you ever get the best out of either if you try to combine them...but yes, 'shrooms and softies are much, much more tolerant of stuff in the water. I do think alk and cal make a difference with them---a friend gave me a mushroom rock, and with my params, I rapidly found them multiplying into way too much of a good thing. I sold that rock---they don't get along with sps worth a darn! But quite right, even lps are more tolerant. And shrooms and softies much more so.

[mmgm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9957576#post9957576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tomorleans
how do you remove phosphates?


Set up a refugium to remove excess nutrients (ie. phosphates) I woud set up a refugium with deep sand bed after 3 months and get some macro algae to grow in your system. Make sure you have plenty of circulation and lighting in your tank and it becomes simple and easy...... Note: Right now the most important piece of equipment you have is your protein skimmer. How much waste are you producing a week? Hopefully more than full cup....

Rushing before your system has time to mature is a big big mistake and will cost you lots and lots of money......

Trust me you have all the time in the world (once you get over the thrill of reefing) to establish a work of art in your home.....

Take your time...... I don't mean this in a negative way..... I've been at this for 5 years now and have an 850+ gallon system....

Had my ups and downs.......

Still not finished stocking......:D

Enjoy.......

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9964356#post9964356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmgm
Set up a refugium to remove excess nutrients (ie. phosphates) I woud set up a refugium with deep sand bed after 3 months and get some macro algae to grow in your system. Make sure you have plenty of circulation and lighting in your tank and it becomes simple and easy...... Note: Right now the most important piece of equipment you have is your protein skimmer. How much waste are you producing a week? Hopefully more than full cup....

Rushing before your system has time to mature is a big big mistake and will cost you lots and lots of money......

Trust me you have all the time in the world (once you get over the thrill of reefing) to establish a work of art in your home.....

Take your time...... I don't mean this in a negative way..... I've been at this for 5 years now and have an 850+ gallon system....

Had my ups and downs.......

Still not finished stocking......:D

Enjoy.......

I dont have a way to measure the amount of waste my skimmer is making. I have noticed I'm changing the filters more often. About once every week and a half..

[mmgm]

The waste from your skimmer is not set up to be collected in a cup? Where does the skimmate deposit? This should be a brown liquid that flows out of the top of your skimmer.....

Have a picture of your skimmer?

Thanks

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9986457#post9986457 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmgm
The waste from your skimmer is not set up to be collected in a cup? Where does the skimmate deposit? This should be a brown liquid that flows out of the top of your skimmer.....

Have a picture of your skimmer?

Thanks

yes it has a waste cup.. with nothing in it..lol.. peice of **** skimmer right?

[mmgm]

If there is nothing in the cup you have an issue. Especially for a new tank. I would not add anything into your tank until either you get the skimmer to work of you get a better skimmer...... Is your skimmer producing bubbles? Is the water level of your skimmer at the right level? Is there a venturi valve controlling the air intake to the skimmer? Sometimes buying a better quality venturi valve is all you need to get the thing to work.....

Marine Technical Concepts (MTC) makes a great skimmer..... I'm sure is you search this site you can get some good recomendations on a good skimmer also.

[Sparty00]

What are good products to dose for Calc. & Alk?

Is there information on 2 part formula?

Don't have money now for a reactor.

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9990310#post9990310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmgm
If there is nothing in the cup you have an issue. Especially for a new tank. I would not add anything into your tank until either you get the skimmer to work of you get a better skimmer...... Is your skimmer producing bubbles? Is the water level of your skimmer at the right level? Is there a venturi valve controlling the air intake to the skimmer? Sometimes buying a better quality venturi valve is all you need to get the thing to work.....

Marine Technical Concepts (MTC) makes a great skimmer..... I'm sure is you search this site you can get some good recomendations on a good skimmer also.

the water level is at the correct height. I usually keep that venturi valve closed because when i open it just little bit it puts alot of bubbles in the tank.. maybe I'll take pictures of it tonight and show ya'll what Im dealing with.. But i can tell you the thing has never put any foam into the catch basin at the top..

[Sk8r]

WHoa! I saw the word 'filter'. Filters are not a good idea in a reef: they actually stop the denitrification process of the live rock and sand---take a batch of detritus and hold onto it at the nitrate stage, and that's lethal for corals. If you've got a filter, other than a particulate filter you run for a few days and dump, start phasing it out before you get corals.

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9990960#post9990960 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
WHoa! I saw the word 'filter'. Filters are not a good idea in a reef: they actually stop the denitrification process of the live rock and sand---take a batch of detritus and hold onto it at the nitrate stage, and that's lethal for corals. If you've got a filter, other than a particulate filter you run for a few days and dump, start phasing it out before you get corals.

I have a Skilter. 250.. i know it's crap and to be honest i plan on changing it out with a Remora C before I do anything else with the tank..

[mmgm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9990908#post9990908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tomorleans
the water level is at the correct height. I usually keep that venturi valve closed because when i open it just little bit it puts alot of bubbles in the tank.. maybe I'll take pictures of it tonight and show ya'll what Im dealing with.. But i can tell you the thing has never put any foam into the catch basin at the top..

Oh oh..... If you get bubbles in your tank when turning the skimmer on then you have even bigger issues........:eek2:

Are you running a Berlin Sump system? There is no reason why skimmers should introduce bubbles into your tank. The fact you keep it turned off tells me your not gaining anything from having it installed and running. If you don't have money for a Berlin sump you can easily make one.

A word of caution...... make sure your tank is set up properly before you go spending any more money on livestock. Also, make sure your set up is designed well..... Based on what you are describing you will already need to rework your set up to be a successful reefer... I agree filters are not the way to go..... They are Phosphate factories and you will be assured to have lots of algae problems...... Corals will not survive in this type of set up.....

Recomended first step:

1. Drop the filter
2. Get the right sump installed so you will have no bubbles when your skimmer works
3. Get your skimmer working and producing at least a cup a week of skimmate
4. Be patient and don't rush

Keep us posted...... Trus me I lived through a lot of mistakes.... unless you get this set up right you will not be able to get much of anything to live in your tank for any period of time....

Welcome to the Hobby!! :D

Enjoy

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9991850#post9991850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmgm
Oh oh..... If you get bubbles in your tank when turning the skimmer on then you have even bigger issues........:eek2:

Are you running a Berlin Sump system? There is no reason why skimmers should introduce bubbles into your tank. The fact you keep it turned off tells me your not gaining anything from having it installed and running. If you don't have money for a Berlin sump you can easily make one.

A word of caution...... make sure your tank is set up properly before you go spending any more money on livestock. Also, make sure your set up is designed well..... Based on what you are describing you will already need to rework your set up to be a successful reefer... I agree filters are not the way to go..... They are Phosphate factories and you will be assured to have lots of algae problems...... Corals will not survive in this type of set up.....

Recomended first step:

1. Drop the filter
2. Get the right sump installed so you will have no bubbles when your skimmer works
3. Get your skimmer working and producing at least a cup a week of skimmate
4. Be patient and don't rush

Keep us posted...... Trus me I lived through a lot of mistakes.... unless you get this set up right you will not be able to get much of anything to live in your tank for any period of time....

Welcome to the Hobby!! :D

Enjoy



The tank is barely 1 month old. Should I be seeing the skimmate this early?


pic of tank http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z96/Tomorleans/DSC00782.jpg

[mmgm]

Yes absolutely...... When your tank is cycling the skimmer should be working like crazy.... Try turning on the Venturi and let some bubbles flow ini your skimmer..... Watch what happens....

In the meantime check out the Berlin sumps Melov makes..... Do a search on this website for Melov and you will see some nice designs.... I made a sump out of a 20 gallon tank.... I just silliconed the baffles in. The baffles were made from 3/16 inch acrylic I bought at HOme Depot. 3/16 inch acrylic is easy to cut with a straight edge and knife....

YOu will be surprised as to what comes out of the skimmer.....

Enjoy....:D

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9992075#post9992075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmgm
Yes absolutely...... When your tank is cycling the skimmer should be working like crazy.... Try turning on the Venturi and let some bubbles flow ini your skimmer..... Watch what happens....

In the meantime check out the Berlin sumps Melov makes..... Do a search on this website for Melov and you will see some nice designs.... I made a sump out of a 20 gallon tank.... I just silliconed the baffles in. The baffles were made from 3/16 inch acrylic I bought at HOme Depot. 3/16 inch acrylic is easy to cut with a straight edge and knife....

YOu will be surprised as to what comes out of the skimmer.....

Enjoy....:D

hmm I'll check that out now..

[mmgm]

The cool thing is I would suggest you design the sump as a combo sump/fuge to include a small refugium with Deep Sand Bed (DSB). Av small light onn top of the sump will allow you to grow somwe macro algae that will really enhance your water quality. For the size of your tank this would be perfect and you will have perfect water parameters with little to no effort with a refugium..... Of course I would suggest a small calcium reactor if you plan on getting serious about corals......

Have fun......

[Tomorleans]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9992810#post9992810 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmgm
The cool thing is I would suggest you design the sump as a combo sump/fuge to include a small refugium with Deep Sand Bed (DSB). Av small light onn top of the sump will allow you to grow somwe macro algae that will really enhance your water quality. For the size of your tank this would be perfect and you will have perfect water parameters with little to no effort with a refugium..... Of course I would suggest a small calcium reactor if you plan on getting serious about corals......

Have fun......

I feel like Im at a crossroads right now. I plan on moving out of my current house within a year and Im not sure how far into this hobby i want to go. I dont wanna lose stuff during a move. So maybe I will make the current tank a FOWLR and after the move make the 30 gallon a ref/sump... hmmm

BUT, then again a buddy of mine has the same setup as I do. And his tank is going great..

[mmgm]

FOWLR is a good start...... If you plan on going reef be careful of what you put into the tank. At minimum try to get the skimmer working correctly..... YOu will need the skimmer working regardless of what you end up with.....

Bottom Line... Have fun....:D

Reef Central is a great place for information.....

[DetectiveTofu]

It is okay to use a filter so long as you make a point to clean/change the media once or twice a week.

[mmgm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9994565#post9994565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rhythmicfire
It is okay to use a filter so long as you make a point to clean/change the media once or twice a week.

The thing is after a while you probaly end up slipping and not changing twice a week.... And then you have issues..... For the long run I suggest setting up your tank to keep maintenence to a minimum..... Berlin Sump with huge Protein skimmer and refugium really minimize maintenance required on a tank.

For my 850 gallon system I spend about 5 hours a week maintaining the system..... My first tank (only 90 gallons) I spent about 14 hours a week maintaining due to changing filters and manual water changes.....

In the long run I suggest make it as easy as possible to maintain.....

Just my 2 cents......

Enjoy......:D