Misinformation - Will it, Kill it ????

[MUCHO REEF]

As many of you are well aware, the ability to gain considerable knowledge from literature, LFS, the net and experienced reefers, is vital as it relates to the foundational principles in/of reef keeping that each of us implement on a daily basis. Even the profound and repetitive anecdotal feedback/information is most helpful as it has been tried and tested by those reefers who have considerable longevity in this hobby. But, .......what happens when misinformation is repeatedly posted that is baseless, misleading, simply not true and potentially detrimental to the inexperienced reefer who takes it and runs with it? Have you witness such misinformation on this site or others? My question is this, is it the responsibility of the reader to investigate said information before implementing it? Is it the owner, the mods, the experienced reefer or the Team RC members duty bound responsibility to say something? Should they say it in private, or in public and risk the firing of a bazooka, launching of a grenade or an AK-47 like responses? What would be the proper, most ethical approach to handling this? And most of all, is this misinformation going to backfire and cause many reefers to never listen or read posted information on sites like RC again? Please, the mentioning of names isn't necessary as this thread is not an attempt to defame anyone.

I'm only asking, so what do you think about the issues mentioned above. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, RIGHT?


Mucho Reef

[T Man]

Some thread replies can be overzealous and a bit off track, but it has been my observation that there is ALWAYS some members here at RC that will correct this "misinformation". That is the purpose of this forum in the first place. The objective is not to lead anyone astray by any means, but sometimes the users post the wrong answers-but the sheer nature of this forum is to give the hobbiest a fighting chance to succeed in reefkeeping. I think that the moderators and whole lot of us do a bang up job at keeping the "misinformation" at bay. TinMan

[alan214]

I agree with Tinman. I do believe that misinformation certainly finds it way on the pages of RC on a daily basis but I also think that the majority of the time, someone challenges or corrects it.

[ocnluvr]

I dont think its intential misleading but, to each their own. After reading some books, I have found that thre is several ways to do everything and many rights and wrong. Depending where u live, and where you buy your products it can be confusing. Anybody who takes info and runs with it is obviously a beginner and will learn. I am new to the forum and find it addicting, my poor "fish guy" is tired of me calling. Thanks!!!

[spleen93]

I think public posting of misinformation should be publicly corrected and it might be helpful if it came from a Team RC staff member or someone along that line. Assumedly, these people have been asked to serve based on their level of dedication/experience in the hobby and are thought of as a knowledgeable person. Thus, corrections coming from them would potentially have more "weight". These corrections need not come in an adversarial fashion but as always, when dealing with people's egos, there's the potential for setting off a grenade in the process. This may be unavoidable though ...

One of the problems with misinformation though is for certain things, it's not necessarily "misinformation" but rather a different approach or a difference of opinion. For instance, a commonly held stance that clams can ONLY be kept with metal halide ... is this absolutely true vs. a difference in opinion? Admittedly, most people will be more successful raining clams with MH than other light sources but some people raise claims on T5s just fine and others claim that their clam does fine under PCs. At what point do we draw the line saying "this is absolutely wrong and we need to make sure that this doesn't spread" vs. saying "multiple approaches to the same problem can work"?

Is there such a thing as absolute truth in this hobby? And while we're at it, anybody want to debate the existence of a higher power? LOL

Spleen

[mbbuna]

im surprised to see this question posed by RC or a representative of.

it is the sole responsibility of the person asking the question to sift through all of the INPUT they receive(good, bad , whatever). if there are going to be guild lines as to what are right answers and wrong answers, buy only certain "trusted" people, then just write some text and do away with the interaction.

everyone's input is valid.

[SDguy]

I see nothing wrong with publicly and politely correcting someone's incorrect information, or, if it's simply an opinion based topic, adding another opinion. Isn't that the point of this public forum? Oh sure, I've been crapped on for doing so, but I get past it. I've also been corrected before, and was fine with that to.

[polwick]

I think it's assumed that any person's post is simply that person's perspective and should not be taken as gospel.

[Tang Salad]

I've noticed that many RC threads have a very strong Bandwagon Effect.

Namely, someone posts a question. Then one of the first replies will offer a very confident answer. Many people follow up agreeing with and parrotting that first answer.

Then later on another person will post an answer contradicting that first answer. And sure enough, everyone after that will agree with this second person.

For threads that stay alive, the 'truth' usually comes out. The sources of misinformation are generally the threads with only an answer or two.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9988131#post9988131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spleen93
For instance, a commonly held stance that clams can ONLY be kept with metal halide ... is this absolutely true vs. a difference in opinion? Admittedly, most people will be more successful raining clams with MH than other light sources but some people raise claims on T5s just fine and others claim that their clam does fine under PCs.

The problem isnt this, its when people take those anecdotal situations, and try to turn them into law. If Joe X can keep tridacnas under PCs, it doesnt mean everyone can.

Thats not what gets me up though.

What gets me is when people keep parroting the same blatantly false claims even when they've been corrected multiple times, and presented with research proving theyre wrong.

I dont know how many times I've had to correct the same 3 or 4 users when they keep chiming in on plumbing threads telling people not to use larger plumbing because "it makes the water heavier, so the pump has to work harder," or the people who claim "dont ball-valve the output of your pump because it'll make the pump work harder, T off to the sump" ... which makes your pump use way more electricity.


Theres something about this hobby that makes people want to give advice when they dont understand a subject, and that bugs me.

[Sk8r]

What you learn isn't necessarily perfect: new information often comes along. And everyone has a brain glitch occasionally, sometimes linking two things grammatically and making them sound like a set when they aren't, in the context given---and sometimes just thinking upside down.

All of which is to say: even Homer nods, but I'd sure like to be able to suggest a correction to a mod and have my original post factually corrected so it looks brilliant. Right now, if you don't realize your goof until an hour has elapsed, it stands for all eternity...or until you amend it.

[plandy]

I think the most diplomatic way to handle this is to say "this does not work for me". Then share your recipe for a successful reef farming. As it has been mentioned so often there's so many approaches and they all seem to be working for someone because of difference in multitudes of maintenance variables.l

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9992320#post9992320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plandy
I think the most diplomatic way to handle this is to say "this does not work for me". Then share your recipe for a successful reef farming. As it has been mentioned so often there's so many approaches and they all seem to be working for someone because of difference in multitudes of maintenance variables.l

Right, husbandry, etc, there are different methods, and what works for someone might not work for others.

There are certain things in this hobby (plumbing, etc) where there are certain physical laws, and people keep trying to claim the opposite. You can do things a lot of different ways, but you can't violate physics.

[HowardW]

<<< Have you witness such misinformation on this site or others? My question is this, is it the responsibility of the reader to investigate said information before implementing it? >>>


Most definately yes on both.

[ganjero]

I think the main "problem" is that this hobby is not an exact science, and most of us when we start in the hobby or try new things we usually want an exact answer that gives comfort.

There are many things that can be almost certain (like a tang wouldn’t survive in a 2g tank, or plumbing like mention by RichConley) but there are many other that cant. So, as many have said the best approach to correct somebody or present your opinion is to start with "this is what has worked for me" or quote something from a reliable source and if possible present a link to that source and stop trying to make everything a law that cant be bent.
I don’t think there is something wrong (in fact it must be done) with correcting somebody publicly as long as it's done politely and backed by reliable facts and/or sources but don't try to correct somebody solely on your personal experience when you don’t know if your case is a rare one or not.


G.

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9988262#post9988262 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mbbuna
im surprised to see this question posed by RC or a representative of.


It doesn't surprise me. Team RC members tend to be very concerned with how the hobby progresses, and work hard to help RC members to find correct information whenever possible.

We all want our livestock to do well, and as we gain more experience we can weed out the misinformation and help others be successful reefkeepers. Reefkeeping Online is another way that information is carefully sifted and measured to get the best content out to the most people.

I worry about inaccurate advice as well as the dogpile effect. If someone comes up with a neat idea, I'm willing to look it over and consider it. There are a few threads like that every year, and sometimes I feel like I'm going back repeatedly to defend the original poster's idea when the naysayers refuse to let up.

We all have minds of our own, and really the proof is in how your tank looks. If it is doing well, your advice is probably good. Hopefully, anyway. :lol:

[MTB]

The great thing about forums like this is that you get several different answers. Some right some wrong. I feel it is up to the person looking for advice to sort through replies and stick with what works for them. If one reads a reply that doesn't look right said person should post a comment. Not to defame anybody. But instead constructively correct the post they feel is wrong. Team RC, Mods or anybody should do so. Why weigh that on any one person's shoulders.

If someone can't stand being corrected or their response criticized, then don't post. If I post a bad idea, I look forward to being corrected, just cause I don't have years of experience under my belt. When someone corrects me, the first thing I do is Google the subject. That way it can be seen what others think. As mentioned there are several ways to do anything. What works for one may not work for someone else.


BTW Mucho, I don't think I have ever seen you post outside of the zoanthid forum. Weird.

[melev]

I posted this on another site once, but it bears repeating:

<i>There are many ways to accomplish the same thing, which is exactly why many have become confused. What I recommend is this:

Does the advice sound reasonable to you?
Does the person giving the advice have a great looking tank to prove their case?
Does the person have a good track record in helping others?

If the answer is yes to the above questions, then you are probably getting good guidance.

One more thing - if your tank is doing well, think twice before making changes. You may see something posted here that you think is interesting, but by implementing that new strategy you may throw your tank into chaos. Try not to make major changes and ruin all your hard work.

And above all, remember to enjoy the hobby. </i>

[aquarius77]

If you aint reefin like me, you aint doin it right!:hmm5:

[TheMcs]

Lots of bad advice on here, some of it scary. Definitely the responsibility of the questioner to validate any answer received. Do most people do that, I seriously doubt it.
Seems like RC can, in the timeframe of about a month, turn a certifiable newbie into an expert.
I personally know people whose advice is taken at face value, even sought after, who have minimal real experience and gleaned all their information from the net. They're simply repeating what they've read, correct or not.

[MrZ]

Over the years the best advice I've been given has usually been explained well and backed up with experience. The worst advice usually comes off the cuff with little more explaination than "thats the way it is". I think most folks can see things for face value once a half dozen people weigh in on any particular subject.

Unfortunately there are still waaay to many folks I meet in person and in these forums who too quickly proclaim that garlic can cure ich, all sandbeds are evil and that 1 inch of fish per gallon is a good start.

Its still my opinion though, that the trend of bad information is decreasing and the innovation in this hobby and in these forums gets better every year. Its a shame when some of the experts in the field have moved on, but each time open minded patient individuals with a love for the hobby have stepped in and stepped up.

If the information is going to flow freely - we've just got accept some of it is going to be more accurate and be patient with each other as we figure out what's what.

-Rob

[Der_Iron_Chef]

As a relative newcomer to the hobby, I'd like to think that I'd be corrected promptly and gently should I offer up erroneous advice or information.

I think the problem here lies in two separate areas, though: 1) people who offer up wrong information, and 2) people who correct them rudely and arrogantly.

There's also a certain amount of "chronological snobbery" that exists here at RC, in the sense that people who have a higher post count are automatically given more "cred" than others with lower post counts. If someone with 25 posts offers advice, and someone with 2,500 offers alternative advice directly after that, the majority opinion almost always automatically swings with the latter. Just my observation, but I've seen it to be true.

Weighing all the facts, with a grain of salt (without arguing about which grain of salt dissolves faster or has higher amounts of Magnesium :)), and then challenging things politely and without malice would go a long way.

[Mazzy]

As a newbie myself I have no advice to give on reef keeping but if I read a question on a FW forum with a reply that is blantantly wrong (gave this example on MR - someone told a newbie to keep two rays in a 75 "and let them breed") I will, as politely as possible, add my own experience and advise. I am not saying the new person has no responsiblity to look into the awnsers given but if an experienced person just takes the stance of "well I guess they'll learn the hard way" when they see something that's completely inaccurate, I don't think that is very responsible either. For me personnally, I just think correcting the bad information is the right thing to do because I certainly wouldn't want someone to stand by and watch me head for disaster when they could see it coming and decided not to speak up.