Is This Normal????

[Vincent Moore]

Hello everyone. I am Vince and am new to this forum and hobby. I am currently living and working in China and decided to get myself a saltwater tank to give myself something to do. Alot of the things I have are Chinese but I have been able to translate or come up with some names of the equipment that I have.

55 gal tank
Octopus Turbine Pump Model OTP 2000
Reef Octopus Protein Skimmer (not sure the model)
About 18 kilo's of crushed coral (sand not available)
Resun wave adjuster Waver 15000

I have no idea what my light is. I had them though put in the blue moon light bulbs for the flourescent ones. I believe the main light is a MH. Again, my boxes were written in Chinese so I had to take the guy for his word (hard to do in China) but since he is a friend of a friend, well, anyway.

Here is the reason for this thread. I am trying to create the nitogen cycle (without having any ammonia test kits since no company will mail to me here in China) I have taken pictures of my setup so people can pipe in and tell me what kind of equipment I have and if it's decent or not. For everything I have, I spent 1000 American dollars. Anyway, I am getting off track. Look at the photos. (my photos are too big to post here. I have uploaded them to a site. I hope this doesn't violate the rules. I mean no harm. Find a different hosting site - Anemone )I have loads of brown stuff all over my rocks (which I am curing inside the tank) and all over my crushed coral. Would this be a form of algae or is this the die off that is supposed to raise the ammonia levals and start the nitrogen cycle? One more thing. I may need a chiller for my tank. Anyone know of a good kind (and one that can be sent to China)? I don't have my heater on and my temp is hovering at 30 Celsius. I believe that is about 86 Fahrenheit. From what I have read, that is too warm. It gets quite warm here in China.

Well, I hope everyone has a chance to look at my setup and give me some feedback. Most importantly lets identify the brown stuff and the equipment if we can. If you need to see a special picture, let me know and I will take it and put it into my album I created. Thanks everyone.
Vincent

[drummereef]

The brown algae you are experiencing is diatoms. Very normal to go through a diatom bloom during cycling. Don't be alarmed if it is followed by a green hair algae bloom. Again, all completely normal and will go away on its own. The easy part is done. With the addition of your live rock and sand you have already started the nitrogen cycle. The hard part is how tell when you cycle is over with the absence of test kits. I would really try to get some as they will be of benefit in the future. Once you are completely sure the cycle has completed and your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are 0 it is safe to add a cleanup crew which will help with any excess algae. Hope this helps... :)

[amike5]

I am not familiar with the equipment you have, but the brown stuff would be diatoms. Normal for a new tank, it will go away on it's own. What are the cylinder things in your sump? Are they for bacterial growth or ammonia removal? If it's either one, you should take them out. You don't need them for bacterial growth since you have live rock and could cause nitrate issues, if it's for ammonia removal you will slow your cycle. The sponges in your sump need to be rinsed every few days if you have to keep them in there. If you don't have any test kits, wait out about 6 weeks to ensure the cycle has completed. Add live stock slowly.

[Vincent Moore]

Thanks guys. I do have nitrate, nitrite, ph, and kh (horribly inaccurate in my opinion) test kits. I don't have the ammonia test kit which is what I need at this time to follow the progress. The ceramic white bags I am not sure. I had the man who owns the fish store come out to my home and hook everything up and mix my water for me. I added the crushed coral and live rock a few days later. He put those in to the sump. I will go back this weekend to the store and ask. I have large black media balls in the back of the aquarium leading down to the sump. Any idea on my light?? Should I take a picture of the underside of it? There are no markings on it at all that I can see. Anyway, thanks for the feedback guys. Keep it coming.
Vince

[drummereef]

At least you have nitrite and nitrate. I would keep monitoring those levels and when both are zero you are probalby safe to move forward. Really would be nice to get an ammonia test though. As far as your temp issues, I would get a fan on the tank asap. 86F is really getting up there temp wise. A fan will promote evaporation and help bring the temp down a few degrees. You'll have to watch your top off a little closer since the tank will evap more. Just make sure to top off with fresh water. ;)

The ceramic rings are a bio filtration media. If you have at least 1lb/gallon of live rock then there really isn't any need for it. And, in some cases cause nitrate problems as they tend not to break down nitrate efficiently. Same thing with the black media balls you also mentioned. Your call if you want to remove them, but most of us reefers have moved away from such filtration.

[Vincent Moore]

Again, thanks for the heads up. I did read that I should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-40% of my tank volume in rocks. I would venture to say I have aprox 20%. Personally, I would like to see my fish more than rocks and plants. I feel rocks and plants should be in moderation. Later, I might add a few more small ones around on the "bed of the ocean" for looks. Tonight I came home with a student to find I have a crab in my aquarium. How in the world he has survived I don't know. Read on.

You are right about the evaporation. I have a lot of it. I came home one day to find a snow storm in the aquarium. My hydrometer was pegged at the top. So much water had evaporated much faster than I expected. So now I check the level every morning. Again, I am surprised the crab survived such high levels of salt. Please give me some more advice on the "fan" as you stated to bring my temps down. I am not sure what you mean by fan. Living in Indiana in America I never needed such items as the water was always needing to be heated. But here in China its a different story. Further direction on getting my temps down is much appreciated.

Yes, I do need an ammonia test kit. I would love to find a supplier in America who would ship to me. Maybe you reefers out there could ask your LFS if I can phone in an order, pay with credit card, and they ship to me. I do not have a buddy in America who can send me anything (I am accepting applications. You must be honest and polite and willing to speak to me at times and be ok accepting wire transfers). Well, again everyone, thanks for the feedback and keep it coming. If I can get a snap shot of my crap I will post it in my album at the link above.
Vincent

[drummereef]

The general consensus is if you have at least 1 pound of live rock per gallon of water in the system then you will have enough biological filtration to support the system. A little more wouldn't hurt. There will be plenty of swimming space. :) I would top off every morning like you said. I evaporate almost a gallon per day on my 40 gallon tank. Keeping salinity stable is key to keeping any invertebrate, and fish for that matter. I suggested adding a fan to blow across the water surface. All you need is a small fan that will blow air over the water. This will promote evaporation which helps to cool the tank. You will need to, again, watch your top off level closely. If you can get an auto top off float switch, it would make life a lot easier. You will then be able to set up a fresh water reservoir to feed the top off controller.

Crabs are common hitchhikers on live rock. It is pretty amazing they can withstand the high levels of ammonia and salinity changes without doing substantial harm. I would, if you can, post a picture of this crab. Most hitchhiking crabs are not reef-safe and will pick at corals.

Let us know of any updates! ;)

[Vincent Moore]

Thank you again for the advice. I will see if I can get a picture of the crabs (now with an S since I have found 3 of them). Also, I do have an automatic top off using a float valve with a reservoir of fresh water. This pumps water over into the sump area as it's needed. I believe if you look at the pictures closely again you will see it on the very far right of my sump system next to the pump. It is a good idea and I am glad I have it. I will also look into a small fan that I can blow across the water as you suggested. But I think eventually I am going to need a chiller. I am going to go by the fish store today and I will have a look at his temperatures. One more thing and thanks everyone for the advice. I have a salinity reading of 1.021 at 86 degrees. I am not sure I am reading my paperwork correctly so I will shout out the numbers here and let everyone tell me what they think.

The paper work has the following

Temp wS.G. @ Salinity of 30.6ppt
82.4 1.020
87.8 1.019
93.2 1.018

I am trying to figure out what the corrected gravity is and if I need more salt or not based upon my temp readings. My hydrometer directions are in Chinese so could soemeone translate these for me?? Thanks again fellow reefers.
Vincent

[Lotus99]

On the ammonia test, you might try to see if you know someone who has access to a chemistry or biology lab. It might work. :) I lived in the Third World for quite some time, and truly learned the value of "connections." Fellow Americans with access to either a "diplomatic bag" or other way (via a corporate pouch) to get things into the country is another option.

[jenajet]

Or have someone in the states buy and mail it to you. If that's legal. I don't see why it wouldn't be but you never know these days.

[Vincent Moore]

I can get ammonia test kits into the country without any trouble. The problem is in America where they wont ship to me in China. I have found a company in England who will ship to me. But they want 6 pounds for each kit (thats about 12 bucks) plus another 6 pounds shipping. So I am looking at 24 bucks for one kit. THAT is a little TOO pricey. Again, if there is anyone in the states that doesn't mind picking up some ammonia kits for me, I can certainly forward you the money accordingly. I just don't have anyone left there who can do this for me.

For the fan. I just installed an oscillating fan under the fish aquarium and it is blowing strongly on the sump area. I wondered if it would be better on top of the aquarium but doing so would cause me to remove my beautiful cabinet top I paid for which I really don't want to do. I will leave it on the sump area for the time being and see if it does anything to drop the temps. If not, I will look into a chiller. Hopefully they install and will fit in the sump area. I am doing my best to keep all my equipment under the tank. Thanks again everyone for the feeback. It is so much appreciated.
Vincent

[ArgonDreams]

About your lights, something struck me oddly about the "Blue Moon" which is normally a florescent or even a T5 description of an actinic bulb. You can sorta identify them from the look of the bulbs themselves. (From the pics it looks like a Metal Halide fixture from the top but it's hard to say.

Metal Halide Bulb Types:

Note with the Metal Halide Bulb the unique "Filament" in the middle.

Metal Halide Double End Bulb (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13916&Ntt=metal%20halide%20double%20end&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=2004&Nty=1)

Screw Type Metal Halide Bulb (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13322&Ntt=metal%20halide%20mogul%20bulb&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1)

T5 and VHO Bulb Types:

T5 HO Bulb (White) (http://www.goodmart.com/products/627350.htm)

Compact Florescent Bulbs:

Compact Florescent Bulb end, notice the double bulb (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13313&Ntt=compact%20bulb&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1)


T5, HO/VHO T12, Normal Output Fluorescent bulbs are long single tubes that end in double pins.

Metal Halides either screw into a socket or are double ended and snap in.

Compact Fluorescent tubs have 2 tubes together

Anyway, your heat is way high as well, Watch your heat and try to keep it at 80 degrees FH. It's a good all around temp that will keep the fish metabolism at a lower rate then 83-85. If you can I would even go as low at 78.

[Vincent Moore]

Well everyone, I just got sticker shock when I looked on the internet for a chiller. So this is what I have come up with. Electricity in China is expensive since there is a lack of it. So I can't run my air conditioning all day as I would in America. So, I have come up with a way to handle the temps. I have been saving all my plastic coke bottles and filling them up with water and putting them in the freezer. I will put them in the sump area and rotate them since I have plenty. This requires a lot of attention and monitoring but, it sure saves a lot of money. I have also procured a timer and shut my light off earlier. Usually I shut it off when I get home from work which usually is 10pm. Having the light off more will also help to reduce the temps. My light is a HUGE heat source in the aquarium and out. Anyway, I will do the ice bottles in the sump area and see how that goes. BTW, I went to the LFS today. I saw a clam for sale and couldn't resist myself. So I have a cool looking clam now. I also purchased some more rock but with coral already on it. Small pieces mind you. Looking pretty good in there. I will have to post more photos soon.

Still no takers in the ammonia kits????? I just need someone with legs in America.
Vincent

[Vincent Moore]

Argondreams thanks for the information. Yes, the middle light snaps in on both ends. It has ceramic ends and I am pretty sure is MH. I handled it with gloves so as to not touch the glass. The tubes running down the sides are fluorescent for sure. I put the blue lights in as I mentioned. Tonight I will be taking photos again of the tank. I will be sure to flip the light upside down and take a photo of it as well. So be sure to check my photo album later. Thanks again everyone.
Vincent

[Vincent Moore]

Ok, I have my photos uploaded to the website. Here is the link again.
[violation]
I also took photos of my light and my 3 crabs. They are hidding on the rocks very well. One was out walking around. If you can identify the types of crabs and let me know if they will eat all my coral or not, it would be appreciated. Those were the best photos I could take without making them run and hide.
Vincent

[amike5]

Not sure on the type of crab, but it definitely doesn't look like one that should be in your tank. I would remove them.

[Vincent Moore]

Recently I was told I could not post the link to my photos becuase the site was too "adult content" for this forum. I respect the rules so I am not complaining. But my photos are too large to post here and I have many. Can anyone provide me with a good hosting site that is also reefcentral appropritate? Thanks
Vincent

[Lotus99]

You can use photobucket.com. That way, you can link your pictures, and embed them in the post so people can see them when they read the post.

[Fraggle Rock2]

You can cool the tank with a fan via evaporation. It can drop the temp a lot more than you might think.

I don't recall off the top of my head, but I don't see why you can't use some cheapo ammonia test strips for freshwater. You really just need to know if it's detectable. Freshwater fish are popular in China aren't they? So you should be able to find some.

Otherwise, I suppose you could toss in a couple of snails and see if they die :P

[Vincent Moore]

Hello again everyone. I have been away for a while. I have been busy with work and all. Just wanted to give everyone an update.

I have installed a fan in the sump area to blow on the water there. Also, I have lifted my light up some as it was too close to the water and I believe it needed a flow of air under it. Further, after not seeing a huge reduction in temps, I went out to computer street (so called as every shop for 3 miles is a computer shop) and bought some small computer fans. The fans are 12 volt AC so I bought a 220v DC to 12 volt DC converter which was really a charger. I cut the end off of it and hooked up six small fans to it now positioned directly under the light and doing a wonderful job. I am happy to report my temps have fallen from 31C to 25C. So I am good on the temps now. Thank you everyone for the fan advice! It worked. :)

Before I mentioned I had brown stuff in my tank that a few members identified as diatoms. I was told this was normal and would be followed by a green algae. A follow up is due. The green has never come. What was brown is now red. Further, my LFS says that I am ready for fish but since I don't have an ammonia test kit (on the way from America but not here yet) I can't be sure all is well. Currently I have the following water readings.

Salinity 1.022
Nitrates 12.5
Nitrites <0.03
PH 8.0
KH 7

All of my test kits are imported from America and are Tetra brand kits. So they are some what reliable. But here is my concern. The LFS owner came to my house and tested the Nitrites and got a less than zero reading. So he assumes its ready for fish. I have taken readings every day since the start and have not seen the nitrites ever rise. Nothing has changed since day one. All the readings I listed were the same the first time I took them. I guess I really need an ammonia kit to see what is going on. If the ammonia level is zero then I guess I am good to go. Until I get my ammonia test kit, I don't think I am going to start putting any fish in the tank. I started the aquarium 4 weeks ago and put the live rocks in about half way through the first week. Most members mentioned having waited 4-6 weeks to create their cycle. I believe my test kit will be here the end of the week. Until then I don't plan on doing anything.

Any adivce, feedback, concerns, or input from others in the know would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone

Vince

[amike5]

If you had good live rock, the cycle may have been so small you wouldn't notice it. I never had a cycle in my tank either. Just remember to only add 1 or 2 fish at a time and let your biological filters catch up to the added bioload before adding more.

[amike5]

Did you ever get rid of the crabs? If not, you should take care of that before you add fish. You don't want them disappearing.

[Vincent Moore]

Yes, all the crabs are gone. Come to find out I have like 7 of them. I read online to mix up some super salty water and soak the rocks in them for a bit. This is what I did and the crabs came out running. I had one the size of a half dollar while the other were nickle and dime size. I forgot to mention that I put 2 shrimp in there to keep the bottom clean.

Vince