What uses more power, closed loop pump or multiple powerheads?

[Wrench]

I'm setting up a new tank soon and with energy prices going up another 50% here yesterday I want it to be as efficient as possible. I want to build a closed loop setup but am scared that a Dart is going to use a ton of power. How can I calculate which setup would use less power, is it as simple as adding up the wattage of each pump?

Powerheads would be 3 Seio 820's and two MJ900's (modded)

CL would be a single Sequence dart.

[davocean]

A dart is a bit overkill if it's for your 45 IMO, but for comparison,
Dart- 3,600 gph @ 130 watts
3 Tunze nano's modded, 3,300-3,600 gph @ 21 watts.
I have both on my tank.
Dart does make a low humm.
Tunze's are dead silent.
I added the Tunze's for more flow and better flow direction, hard to hit all dead spots w/ a loop IMO.

[chase33]

That's it. Add the the total watts of all the powerheads and see if it is greater or less than the watts used by the pump. I changed to powerheads because the three I have use a lot less power than the pump I had and at a much greater flow rate.

[Wrench]

Thanks for that info. The dart will be set up on the 120 I'm getting, not on the 45 lol.

Wow, after some research I found that the Seio 820 uses 18w. It would take four of them to equal the flow of the 3600gph dart which puts me at 28x turnover. Those four powerheads uses 72w, much less than the dart.

Taking this into consideration, what would be the benefit of a CL besides the sight of powerheads in the tank?

[davocean]

I would choose tunze over seio, or even koralia.
Loops are great for hiding EQ, but unless you have several outlets, it's hard to cover all ground w/ just a loop.
My original plan was just a loop on my 180, but I ended up adding tunze also.

[chase33]

Some powerheads can add heat to the water. This may not be the case with an external pump. I use 2 koralia 4's and a nano stream 6045 and have not experienced any heat issues though. Maybe others can chime in here and provide other benefits. Many people do not like the look of the powerheads in the tank, but with a little ingenuity they can be hidden within the rocks. Besides, with the closed loops you also have something, likely pvc connectors (elbows) in the water dispursing the flow anyway. I don't see much difference, but to each his own.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

External pumps still add heat into the water. Unless the pump is well air cooled the heat is going to favor going into the water as opposed to the ambient air. Comparing 130W from the Reeflo vs. 21W from the Tunzes, you're definately going to get more heat from the Reeflo. 21W is nothing as far as heating a tank, especially when comming from such efficient powerheads (which will also help gas exchange at the top of the tank and thereby help cool it). Closed-loops have few benefits over tanks circulated with good prop pumps like the Tunzes. They tend to add more heat, are noisier, and you have to drill holes in your tank and have the worry of a slight leak occuring. Their only benefits IMO is that they are easier to hide.

[ChemE]

I would highly recommend Maxi-Stream 600's rather than those Seios. My Maxi-Steam 600 only draws 6 watts and produces around 1500 gph of flow, that is far more efficient than anything Seio produces.

Regarding power consumption you can't go by manufacturers watt claims since they tend to be wildly inaccurate. Best is to find someone with the same item and a Kill-A-Watt and have them measure it. None of my reef equipment draws what is claimed.

[michaeldaly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10064230#post10064230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wrench
Thanks for that info. The dart will be set up on the 120 I'm getting, not on the 45 lol.

Wow, after some research I found that the Seio 820 uses 18w. It would take four of them to equal the flow of the 3600gph dart which puts me at 28x turnover. Those four powerheads uses 72w, much less than the dart.

Taking this into consideration, what would be the benefit of a CL besides the sight of powerheads in the tank?

Thats only 50W difference, a small lightbulb. It really won't make much difference in your electricity bill. Remember to factor in the initial cost of the equipment. i suspect that the 4 tuzes will cost alot more than the single pump.

[michaeldaly]

double post

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10067209#post10067209 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by michaeldaly
Thats only 50W difference, a small lightbulb. It really won't make much difference in your electricity bill. Remember to factor in the initial cost of the equipment. i suspect that the 4 tuzes will cost alot more than the single pump.

50 watts running 24/7 equates to 36.5 kWh/month. At my rate of about $0.10/kWh that is $3.65/month in energy savings. Don't forget though that this IS one fewer 50 watt heater running constantly so there could well be extra savings from the chiller (if present) running less.

The point of equipment payout is quite valid though. It is always best to select the optimal equipment initially but that is much easier said than done. I always recommend people switch to the Maxi-Stream mods (either DIY or from mjmods.com) because they are very inexpensive and can easily pay out in a reasonable time frame. Everything needed to make two Maxi-Stream 900's will run $88 before shipping while a new dart will cost $230 before shipping.

Two Maxi-Stream 900's will draw right at 16 watts while a Dart will draw 120 watts of 0' of head (closed loop). 104 watts 24/7 is 76 kWh/month. So if you pay my electrical rates, you save $142 initially and then $7.60/month thereafter and get virtually the same flow but much less heat. If aesthetics are big concern (aren't they always in a reef) you can use small base rock and gel super glue to make your own Tunze rock for your Maxi-Stream and you'll never have to see it.

[sjm817]

IMO, CLs have atheistic problems of their own. All that plumbing on the back of the tank. You have to have the tank further away from the wall than a tank without plumbing in the back. If you want to be able to get to it to service it for any reason...it would be a real pain. I would only do a CL with an in wall.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

"IMO, CLs have atheistic problems of their own." Those godless CLs! lol

Seriously though, maybe closed loops were at one time a good solution for flow, but with highly efficient propellor power heads this is no longer the case. You even have a decent selection of prop pumps to choose: Tunzes, nano Tunzes, Koralias, maxi-mods, Resuns, Vortechs, Seios (sort-of). This list is going to increase with time as other companies start joining the bandwagon.

[ChemE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10067533#post10067533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
"IMO, CLs have atheistic problems of their own." Those godless CLs! lol...

LOL: nice one.

atheistic (http://www.answers.com/atheistic&r=67)

aesthetic (http://www.answers.com/aesthetic)

[invincible569]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10067533#post10067533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aninjaatemyshoe
"IMO, CLs have atheistic problems of their own." Those godless CLs! lol

Seriously though, maybe closed loops were at one time a good solution for flow, but with highly efficient propellor power heads this is no longer the case. You even have a decent selection of prop pumps to choose: Tunzes, nano Tunzes, Koralias, maxi-mods, Resuns, Vortechs, Seios (sort-of). This list is going to increase with time as other companies start joining the bandwagon.

You just have to know how to hide your CL. :)

[sjm817]

LOL. Too funny. I was just leaving for church when I made that post. I guess God was speaking to me about CL Vs powerheads. Now there is no doubt!