Tales of the Red Fire Anemone! Is that what this is??? Positive ID requested.

[PurpleUP]

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redfire1.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redfire2.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redfire3.jpg

First of all what in the hell is this? When I saw it at the LFS today, I just had to have it. Tried to negotiate but they wouldn't let it go for any less than the $119 I paid for it. The fish guy explained that he hasn't seen another one like it in 15 years! So I was told, this is a Red Fire Anemone, VERY RARE, from Australia. Is this true? Or was I scammed? It is of no matter. It's simply mystifying.

When I first bought it, it was fastened like a mushroom to a long branch rock. I simply thought it was the most beautiful mushroom I've ever seen, and there it would remain. But as soon as I set it into the tank, it detached from the branch -- so I decided to CRAZY GLUE it back on! It held on for no more than 15 minutes before extending its tentacles to pull from the glue, and relocate itself to the mushroom rock you see in the photo. Couldn't have found a better place for it myself. I wonder if it will move again...

I'll try to get a snapshot of the animal when its fully extended. It reaches roughly 3.5 inches outward. So magnificant. Does anyone else have one?

[davidryder]

Interesting, I would like to see it extended. If you don't really know what it is how do you plan on caring for it?

[PurpleUP]

Good question. The guy says it was "hardy." I suppose I really need to find out what is now. Hopefully, it eats Phytoplankton.

[davidryder]

I use salad shrimp to feed my BTA... when the tentacles extend try feeding it something meaty. If that doesn't work, there is a good chance it's not an anemone.

[PurpleUP]

I'll post a pic when I catch it extended. I did notice that is had a long tubular gut earlier.

[Gary Majchrzak]

never glue any anemone down.
I wouldn't recommend purchasing any anemone unless you know what species it is beforehand.
Your anemone might be a member of the Actinodendronidae.

[PurpleUP]

I'll have to go back to the LFS and dig a little deeper.

[chaseracing]

You best bet is to dig around here. You will probably find more and better information. That thing looks really cool. I probably would have bought it also.

[PurpleUP]

Great advice, Chaseracing. If anyone knows what this is or has one of their own, can you tell me more about it? and what I should feed it?

[Gary Majchrzak]

if the anemone is a "Hell's Fire" Actinodendron species anemone you might not want to place it in your reef aquarium as it can possibly harm your fishes.

[PurpleUP]

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/BC14_FTS_redFIRE061407.jpg

Here's a pic of its surroundings if you might have any additional advice. Thanks!

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/BC14_FTS_redFIRE061407.jpg

[PurpleUP]

There are only 2 fish in the tank, 1 mandarin goby and 1 firefish. Reading about that Hell's Fire, it's nothin nice. I hope that's not it. This lovely beast was supposedly the final addition to my tank.

[justinl]

lol it'd be ironic if the last addition to your reef (nice reef btw) crashed your tank... actually no i take tha back, it would just plain suck.

in the future, Id highly suggest researching before you buy. how can teh lfs guy say it's hardy but not even know what it is?

[Gary Majchrzak]

Anemones sting sessile invertebrates as well as fishes. Your aquarium is small and crowded. You need to positively ID that anemone. Post a pic of it when it expands.

[PurpleUP]

It's primarily my fault. Shouldve asked more questions. i didn't think it was an anemone of any kind. Looked like a Japanese Maple, but a coral. UNTIL IT DECIDED TO STRETCH OUT AND MOVE.

[PurpleUP]

I'll definitely post a pic when it expands. You've been incredibly helpful, Gary. Much appreciated.

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanx- I'll check back here later to see what that thing looks like when it opens up.

[airinhere]

Hey man, go back there and ask to see the book Fossa,S. & A.J.Nilsen, The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Volume 2. (It's in the breakroom.) I think there is some information about them in it. As I recall, there is a full page detailing their care and information. I will try to remember to look it up and post what I find.

[Am4nn]

Wow that is very cool looking, a great color. hope it works out in with your other stuff.

[PurpleUP]

airinhere, might you work at Exotic in Sacramento? If you could look it up while you're there, that would be so cool. I live in El Dorado Hills and I commute to San Jose, so I dont know the next time I'll be able to swing by. Thanks for your help.

[adtravels]

looks like macro algae to me

[adtravels]

possilbe basket star also

[airinhere]

not a problem.

[Hormigaquatica]

Very interesting creature- Ive never seen an anemone quite like it in person. Does it have a single, central mouth? If you touch it- does it Really hurt? lol... worth knowing. I do agree that the most likely candidate that comes to mind right off the bat is an Actinodendron species.

Just a heads up, I can all but guarantee you that it wont eat phytoplankton- an anemone that large wouldnt be designed to catch such small prey, much less digest it. Id suggest something more animal-like; marine snow, cyclopeeze, daphnia, mysis shrimp. See which gives you the best feeding response. Ill be very interested to see some fully extended photos, and to know how the corals around it react!

[Peter Eichler]

Be careful if it is in fact a Hell's Fire Anemone, if it is I'm a bit puzzled why you aren't in extreme pain after trying to glue it to something... I had one about 20 years ago that stung me a few times. One sting in particular still gets welts from time to time.

[PurpleUP]

Pics taken at 430am. IT'S ALIEN!

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redA.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redB.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redC.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redD.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redE.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redF.jpg

http://www.refiwise.com/REEFpics/redG.jpg

[PurpleUP]

I held it in the palm of my hand for an extended period of time both in and out of water. Suprised it didn't sting me. That's the last time I try something like that. Just a knee jerk reaction when seeing a free floating coral in the water. hehe.

[PurpleUP]

Now that you SEE it, how often should I try to feed it? and what?

[mikekman]

Cool anem........so when it opens up, it doesn't show any red at all?

Interesting little thing, see if you can take some clearer pictures using the macro setting on your camera. A lot of people are feeding their dendros, sun corals, etc at least 3-4 times a week.

Since noone here can put a positive id on this thing, feed it a few times a week. It could be photosynthetic and then it probably isn't photosynthetic

More PICS!

Mike

[PurpleUP]

I took these photos using the kitchen counter lights at 430am. If it were taken under the tank lighting, then perhaps it would have shown more red. Didn't want to miss the photo opportunity by booting up the halides. One thing to note is that it began to close up once exposed to the light. Also, it looked twisted at the neck, almost knot-like. I wonder if it was intentional. The way it looks in the photo was NOT how I saw it yesterday when it detached itself from the rock. Yesterday, it was much more elongated. However, its mouth wasn't as wide open as shown above.

Unfortunately, I cannot take any additional daytime photos until tomorrow morning. I'm in San Jose for the day...

[PurpleUP]

I think I'm getting closer... see the "Blood Red Fire Anemone"

http://www.atlantisaquarium.net/clanemone.html

[mikekman]

Since it closes up, your anem is most likely non photosynthetic so you will have to feed it a few times a week.

Good luck and if you can find the scientific name perhaps we can know more about it.

Sweet tank by the way

[PurpleUP]

So now that I'm sure I have an anemone here, I read that I should NOT feed it for a few weeks. Does it require a lengthy acclimation period before food is even introduced? By the looks of this thing, it'll each the fish if it's not fed properly.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Even if fed properly it'll sting your fish at the very least. Incidentally, Mandarinfish are pretty lame at avoiding anemones.
If you choose to feed it go with some small meaty foods like frozen mysid shrimp or HUFA enriched brine shrimp and use a turkey baster to target feed the anemone.

[airinhere]

Hello all!
Found a listing for these anems on page 248 and 249 in: Fossa,S. & A.J.Nilsen, The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Volume 2.

This is a Phyllodiscus Semoni (order Boloceriodaria)
'Hells Fire Anemone'
Distribution: Indo, West Pacific, Vietnam, Indonesia, Phillipines

Found in Shallow (less than 10M) water. Often in as little as 1 or 2 meters of water. Usually found in lagoons or other quiet areas growing among hard corals, soft corals and seagrasses.

Size: 25cm across foot.

Appearance: This anemone is a master of disguise and can appear as: a bunch of macroalgae, an algae covered rock, a branching stony coral or as a soft coral. No information if it is mimicing its local surroundings or just shapes itself per water conditions, but the pictures I saw indicate the ability to imitate the life around itself.

Food: Photosynthetic organism. Zooxanthelae in pseudotentacles (the tentacles seen by day.) Its true tentacles come out at night. This anem is thought to feed on small planktonic organisms with its tentcles. It has never been observed in the wild catching or eating fish.

Light: Very strong to strong

Water circulation: Medium

Reproduction: Unknown, but thought to 'split' and create clones.

Hosts: Dascyllus albicella (aka Hawaiian Dascyllus or One-Spot Damselfish), various members of the Periclimenes family of anemone shrimp.

He should do just fine in your tank. Sounds like he can get pretty big, so you might need to consider setting up a larger tank now so you will have somewhere to keep him once he is fully grown. (Anems need well established tanks. At least 6 months of everything running smooth.) By the time the tank would be ready, he would likely need to be moved anyways. Throw in some seagrass a few soft corals, a Hawaiian Damsel and a handful of anemone shrimp and you would have a one of a kind display piece.

[spleify]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10151654#post10151654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
Throw in some seagrass a few soft corals, a Hawaiian Damsel and a handful of anemone shrimp and you would have a one of a kind display piece.

I like this idea... We will be anxiously awaiting the pics of the new build...lol......
Great looking tank by the way.

[mikekman]

WOW! Airinhere, good detective work.

So the anem is photosynthetic....how coool, it won't have to be fed as much.

Put some colorful ricordias and zoos next to it and see if it can mimic a rainbow color :-D.

I might have to get this cool anem! Anyone know of any sources that sell them?

Mike

[Absolute Reef]

Nice tank, by the way.

[PurpleUP]

airinhere, thanks for the thorough research. But how confident are you on the ID of this anem? The description seems to match, in that it has the ability to transform itself right before your eyes. Were you able to compare any photos in the book with the ones posted here? If you're right, photosynthetic is good. I wouldn't even want to try to feeding meat to this creature.

For those of you interested, you might be able to purchase one here:

http://www.atlantisaquarium.net/clanemone.html

... see the "Blood Red Fire Anemone." It's an exact match to the one I have in my tank now.

Feel free to re-visit this thread for MORE PICS of this Fire Anemone! I'll try to post its progress in the tank as the days, weeks, months go by...

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10152594#post10152594 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PurpleUP
airinhere, thanks for the thorough research. But how confident are you on the ID of this anem? The description seems to match, in that it has the ability to transform itself right before your eyes. Were you able to compare any photos in the book with the ones posted here? If you're right, photosynthetic is good. I wouldn't even want to try to feeding meat to this creature.

For those of you interested, you might be able to purchase one here:

http://www.atlantisaquarium.net/clanemone.html

... see the "Blood Red Fire Anemone." It's an exact match to the one I have in my tank now.

I'm pretty confident in the ID. The is a VERY variable species and the one you have appears to mimic a soft coral. They really are not suited for any sort of mixed display and especially not a nano tank (few anemones are). You're asking for lots of trouble by keeping this anemone IMO. Also, you're asking for some serious pain. I'll take getting stung by a Lionfish or Foxface any day over getting stung by one of these anemones again. It may not have gottne you when you werd glueing it, but if it ever does you won't be happy. Though people will have different levels of reactions, stings from this anemone sending you to the hospital isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

[Gary Majchrzak]

FWIW all of the anemone species that I can think of are photosynthetic and still require some sort of feeding in captivity.

[mikekman]

Gary, there is the waratah anemone that is not photosynthetic but requires constant feedings. Same with Nakas japanese green anemone in one of his threads.:D

[PurpleUP]

Man, this is a complicated hobby. No one knows for certain what or WHAT NOT to feed this complex creature in capitivity. If I chose to make an attempt at feeding this anem, how would I go about doing it? Should I wake up early early morning to catch it wide open and simply shove a piece of shrimp directly into its mouth? And will it chew or swallow? hehe.

Seriously, I am a newbie to this as you can tell, but I'd like to give it my best attempt at giving this anem the proper care. Until I cycle a larger tank, I'm going to have to make this anem co-exist with all of the tank's inhabitants.

It's been more than 24 hours hours since I posted the last pics of the fire anem partially extended. It's been over 48 hours since I first brought it home from the LFS. I have no idea of what has happened to it OR it's friendly neighbors since then, as I've been working at my office away from home. For those of you who remain interested, I'll take more pics when I get back. Hopefully, it's doing well. The Tale of the Red Fire Anemone continues...

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10153548#post10153548 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mikekman
Gary, there is the waratah anemone that is not photosynthetic but requires constant feedings. Same with Nakas japanese green anemone in one of his threads.:D
it might be possible.
Offhand, the coloration of those anemones would seem to indicate the presence of zooxanthellae. I haven't yet seen any proof that those anemones don't possess zooxanthellae, but I haven't researched them.
I know you can keep certain photosynthetic anemones in the dark if their well fed (Aiptasia , for example) so the fact that an anemone can be kept alive in total darkness doesn't prove that it's not photosynthetic.

[airinhere]

Hey man, I am about as positive as you can get about the ID on this anem. It was shipped as a hells fire anem, and the pics from the book I referenced had photos that looked exactly like yours (only not nearly as nice a red, the pics were all greenish.) And we have a couple other ones that show three different appearances.
As for feeding, Keep the light cycle going. Halide lights will be critical for the long term care of this guy. At night you might consider dosing your tank with zooplankton, or you might find it worthwhile to add a jar of tigerpods and let them grow wild in your tank. At night they will venture out and then the anemone could catch them. Target feeding it meaty pieces would be unnatural for it, but might work.
By the way, your tank looks great.

[PurpleUP]

IT'S GONE!@%! I arrived home today and guess what, NO MORE ANEMONE. Floating in the current was a cleaner shrimp outer skeleton, but the shrimp itself was fine. Apparently, it has shed for the 3rd time. The firefish, mandarin goby, and everything else are alive and all doing extremely well. Coral polyps are fully extended. Water conditions are absolutely perfect.

Something bad obviously happened in the tank while I was away. I would assume the anem is merely hiding or taking hold of a rock somewhere completely out of site. However, I did see a small pinky-nail-piece of fleshy white substance at the back corner of the tank, which appeared to be the tail end of the shrimp. But I wouldn't think that the shrimp's exoskeleton would take some of its flesh. or could it?

Part of me wants to tear apart the entire reef and solve this mystery of the missing anem. The other half of me says it's time to let go. It was so cool to have but it wasn't the ideal habitat for it anyway. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

The Tale of the Red Fire Anemone continues...

[mikekman]

I'd slowly take out a few small pieces of rock and see if its hiding there. If you still can't find it, take out some larger pieces and see if its hiding in there or not.

I think your anem just found a new shelter maybe in some crevices or something.

Try and put some cyclopeez in your tank, perhaps that might make it stick out its tentacles to get the cyclops therefore letting you know were its at.

[PurpleUP]

And what of the "pinky-nail-piece of fleshy white substance" I saw in the tank? It was solid white in color and with the tough consistency of a cooked lobster. I'm thinking perhaps that was the remains of the anem. What else could that have been, except the leftovers of the cleaner shrimp when it shed from its shell?

If I didn't pull that chunk of flesh from the tank, I would have already begun my anemone search. What I'll probably do is wait and see if it reveals itself over the next few days. After a week or so, I'll just assume it's DEAD.

[airinhere]

I would make no such assumption about the anemone. If it were to die, it would not be very solid at all. It would be more like slimy goop that would smell horrible.

Judging by the appearance of your tank, you have been taking good care of your system, so I am assuming you have reasonably good params. The other anems at the store are all doing fine, so I would be hesitant to think yours died so quickly especially since it was demonstrating such healthy behavior as feeding behavior in the darkness. More than likely, it didnt like the point you had put it on and has released itself into the current.

Think carefully about where the current would carry him and there he shall be. Probably underneath your rockwork in an isolated corner where you cannot see him. This is exactly why anems are considered problematic for reef setups.

As to your params, make sure you keep your DKH above 7.4. That is the point where you will see anems as well as many other corals start to melt away overnight.

Hope you find him.

[Peter Eichler]

Check the filter compartments in the back. I only know because mine had been missing for a couple months and I found it when something stung the crap out of my arm when I was working on my HOB filter.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10156816#post10156816 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
I would make no such assumption about the anemone. If it were to die, it would not be very solid at all. It would be more like slimy goop that would smell horrible.

Judging by the appearance of your tank, you have been taking good care of your system, so I am assuming you have reasonably good params. The other anems at the store are all doing fine, so I would be hesitant to think yours died so quickly especially since it was demonstrating such healthy behavior as feeding behavior in the darkness. More than likely, it didnt like the point you had put it on and has released itself into the current.

Think carefully about where the current would carry him and there he shall be. Probably underneath your rockwork in an isolated corner where you cannot see him. This is exactly why anems are considered problematic for reef setups.

As to your params, make sure you keep your DKH above 7.4. That is the point where you will see anems as well as many other corals start to melt away overnight.

Hope you find him.

Where the current would take him? It's a 14 gal. tank... :lol: Though there is a good chance it is in the interior rockwork somewhere like you say. Also, I gotta ask, where does this 7.4 dKH causing things to "melt away over night" statement come from?

[airinhere]

I thought it was common knowlege. I have read it several times here on Reef Central. I know I have experienced it firsthand when I first started keeping corals. Lost a torch and a xenia before I figured it out.

[PurpleUP]

This is insane. I've been looking for this thing for the past 5 hours! It's only a 14 gallon tank and the anem is so incredibly RED that I would notice it even in the tightest crevice. Funny you say check the back filters. I was just inspecting them with a flashlight before I read your posting.

airinhere, your theory makes sense. It's hard to believe that it melted away when it was doing so well overnight, and everything else seems peachy. Still haven't any idea what that fleshy white matter was though [only the size of a pinky nail]. Can't imagine it would have come from anything else in the tank.

How about this for a theory? The anem released itself into the current, landed onto the torch or frogspawn and disintegrated. The white stuff I discovered at the back corner of the tank was its fleshy remains. I've seen the torch do this to other corals before.

At this point, I'm just looking for closure. hehe. But there is always the remote possibility that it might "crawl" out from the dark 14 gallon abyss.

[PurpleUP]

btw, airinhere. I think you deserve OT for your extra time on this posting. What's your first name? I'll say hello next time i'm in your store.

[airinhere]

Well, thats also a possibility. Either way, I feel for you. I know exactly what anem you are talking about and it was amazing.

They do seem to prefer clinging to rockwork as opposed to digging in the sand, so maybe it is just curled up in a cozy little hole in your rockwork.

I have a BTA that is bigger than my fist when expanded and it sometimes dissapears into a hole in a piece of rock he has decided to adopt. Freaked me out until I found out where he was.

Keep us posted if he turns up.

[airinhere]

you have pm

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10157171#post10157171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
I thought it was common knowlege. I have read it several times here on Reef Central. I know I have experienced it firsthand when I first started keeping corals. Lost a torch and a xenia before I figured it out.

The thought that things start to melt away suddenly at night when dKH drops below 7.4 is funny to me for some reason. You make it sound like it's a 33f room full of icecubes :lol: I can assure you there is no such magical threshold for dKH, but yes it's a good idea to maintain a proper dKH above and beyond 7.4. ;) If you can find any references to this I'd be interested because it's the first time I've ever heard such a claim.

Purp, good luck finding the anemone and if it's really gone then sorry for the loss. Sadly this is a pretty good example of why anemones do best in species tanks. Just be happy it didn't go around stinging everything, and you. If you end up finding it I'd suggest seeing if the store is willing to take it back or at least give you partial credit. They never should have sold it to you in the first place if they knew you had a nano.

[airinhere]

I found a post referencing, you have pm.

[PurpleUP]

Now I know. $119 lesson. But, yes at least it didn't go around stinging everything else AND ME. Tx.

[Casshern]

FWIW you have a highly poisonous Alicia miralibis. Lucky...

[PurpleUP]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10157771#post10157771 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Casshern
FWIW you have a highly poisonous Alicia miralibis. Lucky...

Which one would that be? I'd like to know what else might be able to kill me in there.

[mikekman]

Any new updates? Were you able to find the anem or do you think it melted?

[MrSpiffy]

I tried finding info on that "Alicia miralibis" and found absolutely nothing. Possibly a typo..? What is it?

[PurpleUP]

FYI, still no anemone in sight :(

[Casshern]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10171053#post10171053 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
I tried finding info on that "Alicia miralibis" and found absolutely nothing. Possibly a typo..? What is it?

google search pics (http://images.google.com/images?as_q=alicia+mirabilis&um=1&hl=en&output=images&svnum=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&imgtype=&imgsz=&as_filetype=&imgc=&as_sitesearch=&safe=off&as_st=y)